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**DTJ** · 11-24-2003, 04:49 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:19:00 -0600, toto <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:04:25 GMT, DTJ <[email protected]> wrote:

You are an idiot. Punishment teaches children to behave.

No, it doesn't.

You are clueless.

But we never smacked him so he didn't learn to hit others.

Ah, he never saw anyone hit anyone. Never. So he never learned to
hit. I think you need to see a shrink.

violence. The boys who are violent have learned to be so from theadults around them. Most often they have been beaten by adultsand take out their rage on the weaker boys and the girls who cannotstop them.

Generally I agree with you. I am against spanking because most
parents can't do it right. However, if you believe the only reason
kids can be violent is because they are spanked, you need help.

**DTJ** · 11-24-2003, 04:51 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:22:07 -0600, toto <[email protected]>
wrote:

You might not be aware, but if this is how your group raises children,we are going to need a whole lot more prisons in the future.Neither the research nor the anecdotal evidence from my 30 yearsof contact with children supports you in that. The people in jailwere more likely abused than brought up with positive parenting.

True, but only because of the age of the jailbirds. Up until the 60's
or 70's kids were hit as often as hugged. Since the 80's a larger
number of kids have no discipline at all. We are seeing much larger
juvenile crime rates as a result.

Thanks to another poster for this link to the research on ParentEffectiveness Training principles.http://www.gordontraining.com/FamilyResearch.asp

Thanks. I will take a look. Any advice on parenting is worth me
taking a look at.

**DTJ** · 11-24-2003, 04:53 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:28:26 -0600, toto <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:31:57 -0600, [email protected](Matthew Russotto) wrote:

If not speeding (and otherwise following the law) is such a good wayto avoid getting a ticket for a moving violation, how do you explaingetting one for an act which is not illegal (going through a yellowlight)? Are we supposed to know and follow all the nonexistent lawsas well as the real ones?

The way it is explained here is that you are supposed to anticipateand when you see the yellow, you know you are going to have tostop. Too many people speed up to get through that yellow, butby the time they are actually in the middle of the intersection, thelight has turned to red.If the light turns red after you've passed that line and you're stillin the intersection...you just ran a red.

Sorry that is not true. The law says if your car (even the smallest
iota of it) enters the intersection prior to it turning red, you must
proceed through.

**DTJ** · 11-24-2003, 04:54 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 20:24:48 -0600, toto <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:44:31 -0700, "ColoradoSkiBum"<[email protected]> wrote:

"Severe punishment" does not have to mean hitting, you know.

Doesn't have to that is true and some punishments are worsethan hitting but punishment in general doesn't work the waypeople think it does. It may change behavior short term, butit teaches unintended lessons and it does not produce adultswho are self-disciplined.

You truly are from mars.

**ColoradoSkiBum** · 11-24-2003, 05:50 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

"CC Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
: CC Bailey wrote:
: > ColoradoSkiBum wrote:
: >
: >> : If the light turns red after you've passed that line and you're still
: >> : in the intersection...you just ran a red.
: >>
: >> Actually, my understanding was that if you enter the intersection
: >> while the
: >> light is still yellow, then you may legally proceed through the
: >> intersection--even if the light turns red while you're in the
: >> intersection.
: >> As long as you've crossed the line before it turns red, it's not a
: >> violation.
: >>
: >> Comments from the driving newsgroup??
: >
: >
: > In Indiana, as long as it's yellow when you enter, you're in the clear.
: >
:
: In the mornings, as I drive my daughter to school, I have to pass
: right in front of the police station. This morning, one block
: away from the station, I hit the light on yellow and went on
: through, right in front of a police car who was waiting at the
: cross street. I didn't get stopped (thank goodness, since we were
: running late!)

Hell, that doesn't mean anything. In the Denver area cars routinely run
reds--I mean full-on reds, the traffic that has a green light is *waiting*
for the last 4 cars to clear the intersection. Right in front of cops, and
they don't do a **** thing about it. They're more interested in pulling
over people who are speeding, even if their excessive speed is not posing a
danger to anyone.
--
ColoradoSkiBum

**ColoradoSkiBum** · 11-24-2003, 05:52 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

: The driving here in the Bay area is SO much saner than the driving
: around Boston!

I never thought I'd hear anyone say driving in the Bay Area was "sane"! All
I can say is, thank God for cab drivers!
--
ColoradoSkiBum

**DTJ** · 11-24-2003, 05:53 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 04:52:32 GMT, dragonlady
<[email protected]> wrote:

I'm assuming that the mother turned the engine off. On those occassionswhen I've been pulled over by the police, I have always put the car inpark and turned the engine off.And a three year old can certainly tell when an engine has been turnedoff -- at least in the crappy old cars *I* drive!

Still unsafe and a bad idea.

Next thing, kid starts opening door and exiting. Even when on a major
road as a truck goes by.

Oops, no longer a problem that he doesn't wear seatbelts.

**ColoradoSkiBum** · 11-24-2003, 05:54 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

: if you go to traffic court that is your best shot -- they might roll
: back the fine -- or have you go to traffic school instead -- at worst,
: you are where you started.

Now *this* makes me laugh! Is it only in Colorado that if you go to traffic
court, the fine *increases*?
--
ColoradoSkiBum

**DTJ** · 11-24-2003, 05:55 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 05:49:42 GMT, "Dave C."
<[email protected]> wrote:

Going through a yellow light is not a moving violation. You should have contested and had the case dismissed. Evidentally you do not live or drive in California. Perhaps in YOUR state it isn't a moving violation (it isn't in MA either) but it IS in CA. MarjorieLet me get this straight . . . I'm on a California road doing the speedlimit approaching an intersection with a green light. Five feet before Ienter the intersection, the light turns yellow. Having no choice, I safelyproceed through the intersection on a yellow light. Now I'm guilty of amoving violation?!? What does california think a yellow light is for? Whydon't they just have red and green, if the yellow means red? -Dave

Just because someone posts something doesn't mean it is true. Either
they are wrong, or CA is full of idiots.

OK, so we know the second part is true...

**DTJ** · 11-24-2003, 05:59 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

On 24 Nov 2003 11:26:05 -0800, [email protected] (Eastward
Bound) wrote:

troll

How does it feel to be a bigger idiot than Judy?

**Eastward Bound** · 11-24-2003, 09:53 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

DTJ <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..

On 24 Nov 2003 11:26:05 -0800, [email protected] (Eastward Bound) wrote:

troll

How does it feel to be a bigger idiot than Judy?

speak for yourself troll...

**dragonlady** · 11-24-2003, 10:17 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

In article <[email protected]>,
DTJ <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 04:52:32 GMT, dragonlady <[email protected]> wrote:

I'm assuming that the mother turned the engine off. On those occassionswhen I've been pulled over by the police, I have always put the car inpark and turned the engine off.And a three year old can certainly tell when an engine has been turnedoff -- at least in the crappy old cars *I* drive!

Still unsafe and a bad idea. Next thing, kid starts opening door and exiting. Even when on a major road as a truck goes by. Oops, no longer a problem that he doesn't wear seatbelts.

That was never a problem for me; my kids unbuckled (my younger daughter
especially) as soon as they could, but waited for me to open the door.
Of course, most of the doors in my old cars were hard to open! My kids
were MUCH older (like in the 10 - 12 year old range) before I had
problems with them jumping out of the car too quickly.

Besides, if your child obeys you that well, why not tell them that under
no circumstances were they to open the car door until you said it's OK?

I think you are seeing a problem where none exists. Some kids really
hate the feeling of car seats and seat belts. So we tell them they can
take them off ONLY WHEN THE ENGINE IS TURNED OFF. And we don't turn the
engine off until the car is parked in a safe space.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

**dragonlady** · 11-24-2003, 10:17 PM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

In article <[email protected]>,
"ColoradoSkiBum" <[email protected]> wrote:

: The driving here in the Bay area is SO much saner than the driving : around Boston! I never thought I'd hear anyone say driving in the Bay Area was "sane"! All I can say is, thank God for cab drivers!

I spent some time last summer back in the Boston area. Bay Area driving
is truly much, much saner!

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

**Arthur L. Rubin** · 11-25-2003, 05:34 AM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

chiam margalit wrote:

I did try to take it to court and was told that if the light turns red whilst you are in the intersection, you get the ticket.

They're lying. THERE IS NO SUCH LAW.

Now, they may prosecute and convict you -- probably your best
bet would have been to invite a consumer reporter.
--
This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
and it bounces, a second try might work.
However, please reply in newsgroup.

**Arthur L. Rubin** · 11-25-2003, 05:34 AM

Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

DTJ wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:28:26 -0600, toto <[email protected]> wrote:
If the light turns red after you've passed that line and you're stillin the intersection...you just ran a red. Sorry that is not true. The law says if your car (even the smallest iota of it) enters the intersection prior to it turning red, you must proceed through.

Although I agree little with DTJ, he (or she) is absolutely
correct, here. There may be some leeway if you've crossed
the limit line before red, but have not actually entered
the cross-street -- you may not be REQUIRED to proceed,
but it is legal to do so.

--
This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
and it bounces, a second try might work.
However, please reply in newsgroup.