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  • #46
    Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

    On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:37:38 -0600, toto <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:59:03 GMT, DTJ <[email protected]> wrote:
    Not the point. A 5 year old should not be allowed to take off a seatbelt. My 3 year old can, but knows he will be severely punished if hedoes. He must ask first, and must wait for a response.
    If you get in an accident and the child needs to get out of the carfast, I hope he doesn't wait for you to tell him its ok especially ifyou have been knocked unconscious.The problem with hard and fast rules and obedience is that thechild doesn't learn how to judge when things are ok to do. Andthe problem with punishment, especially harsh punishments isthat you will be teaching unintended lessons you don't want toteach.
    Well Dorothy, or toto, or whoever you are, please do not take
    something I write and twist it to serve your misguided views of
    parenting.

    I don't believe in spanking. However, I occasionally do. When I do I
    always ask my son if it hurt his butt. He always says no. I then ask
    him if it hurt his feelings. He always says yes. I always hug him
    afterwards. I never swat him more than once. I never hit him hard.
    Hell if he admits it doesn't hurt, that pretty much says it all.

    Further, the reason my son listens is BECAUSE I DON"T HAVE HARD AND
    FAST RULES. There are some things that can not be negotiated though.
    Liberals like you, and don't bother telling anyone you are not a
    liberal, refuse to discipline your children and then get upset when we
    want to put criminals behind bars because "it was their parent's
    fault".

    If my kid runs in the street, I explain why he can't. I then tell him
    why I will spank him if he does it again. I then give him a few
    chances to make mistakes. I do not allow him the opportunity to make
    those mistakes when he can get killed.

    Any parent who allows their child to take off a seat belt without
    permission is an idiot.

    Comment


    • #47
      Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

      On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:42:44 -0700, "ColoradoSkiBum"
      <[email protected]> wrote:
      tips, if anyone's interested: When you get pulled over, roll your windowdown about 1/3 of the way, and keep both hands on the steering wheel as s/he
      Why 1/3rd of the way?


      Comment


      • #48
        Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

        On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:25:58 -0500, Nan <[email protected]> wrote:
        On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 03:05:08 GMT, Brandon Sommerville<[email protected]> wrote:
        On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:37:38 -0600, toto <[email protected]>wrote:
        If you get in an accident and the child needs to get out of the carfast, I hope he doesn't wait for you to tell him its ok especially ifyou have been knocked unconscious.The problem with hard and fast rules and obedience is that thechild doesn't learn how to judge when things are ok to do. Andthe problem with punishment, especially harsh punishments isthat you will be teaching unintended lessons you don't want toteach.
        So it's better to have your child willing to unbelt themselves whileyou're on the highway? Wow, great attitude! Even my four year oldknows better than that.
        That's not what she said.Read the second paragraph again.I could easily see a child who's been taught they will be "severelypunished" for removing a seatbelt, being reluctant to do so in anemergency situation, therefore, coming to more potential harm.If the car is wrecked, or on fire, the kid would remain, since mommytold him to.
        Don't be an idiot. If you truly believe any human being will sit
        there and not unbuckle themselves when the car is on fire, you should
        not have children. Hopefully Darwinism will eliminate your genetic
        profile quickly.

        Comment


        • #49
          Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

          On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:14:28 -0600, toto <[email protected]>
          spewed forth complete ignorance when she vomited:
          So it's better to have your child willing to unbelt themselves whileyou're on the highway?The child did not unbelt themselves when they were on the highway,but after the car had stopped.
          And a car stops at every red light.
          Wow, great attitude! Even my four year old knows better than that.The child unbelted his seatbelt after the car was stopped. A threeyear old knows the difference between when the car has stoppedand when it is moving.
          And that means they can tell the difference between a stop sign and a
          cop pulling over their dumb *** mother how?
          Mine knew that we were not going anywhere until they got theywere in their carseats and had their seatbelts on very early becauseif they unbelted while we were moving we stopped the car anddidn't go again until they were seat belted. No punishment wasnecessary, that was enough.
          No, punishment was necessary, but you were too stupid to do that. Of
          course, one wonders whether your kids have been arrested yet or not.
          They also knew that when we arrived they could unbelt themselvesor wait for us to do it. It was unnecessary to punish them fortaking belts off since they learned quite quickly that the car didn'tmove unless everyone in the car had their seatbelt on.And they learned also to have good judgement about when to takeit off and when to leave it on.
          Yes, a 3-year old is fully capable of exercising safe judgement when
          it comes to automobile safety, fire safety, explosive safety, nuclear
          weapons safety, chemical weapons safety....

          Comment


          • #50
            Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

            On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:19:02 -0600, toto <[email protected]>
            wrote:
            If the child is harshly punished for getting out of bed, this mightbe the result. Two other possibilities may also result. The childmay enter a power struggle with you over this and continue notto go to bed until the punishment escalates to the point wherehe is injured or the child may learn to sneak out of bed when momand dad are no longer looking. Punishment teaches childreneither to be cowed or to be rebellious or to be sneaky dependingupon their temperament. The harsher the punishment, the morelikely it is that the child's spirit will be broken, but children doendure much and rebel against it.
            You are an idiot. Punishment teaches children to behave.

            I would hate to see your kids. How often do your sons smack your
            sorry *** around?

            When your son rapes the girl in his class, do you make apologies for
            him and claim punishment is unnecessary? Next time he won't do it,
            because you say so.

            Comment


            • #51
              Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

              On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 21:52:57 -0800, Sloopy <[email protected]> wrote:
              In article <[email protected]>, toto <[email protected]> wrote:
              If the child is harshly punished for getting out of bed, this might be the result. Two other possibilities may also result. The child may enter a power struggle with you over this and continue not to go to bed until the punishment escalates to the point where he is injured or the child may learn to sneak out of bed when mom and dad are no longer looking. Punishment teaches children either to be cowed or to be rebellious or to be sneaky depending upon their temperament. The harsher the punishment, the more likely it is that the child's spirit will be broken, but children do endure much and rebel against it.
              Is this post intended as an entry into some sort of World's StupidestParent contest?
              No, it is the liberal mantra.

              Comment


              • #52
                Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

                On 23 Nov 2003 05:36:03 -0800, Banty <[email protected]> wrote:
                You might not be aware, Al, but this thread was cross-posted to misc.kids.Internet (USENET, actually) discussion about raising kids is exactly what we'reabout.
                You might not be aware, but if this is how your group raises children,
                we are going to need a whole lot more prisons in the future.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

                  On 23 Nov 2003 13:20:34 -0800, [email protected] (nilanjan)
                  wrote:
                  BTW ... I think I am the best parent one can be !!! Lets not go offtrack into free parenting lessons over the internet ..
                  Your child frequently takes his seatbelt off on the expressway, and
                  you think you are the best parent one can be.

                  Fortunately, or unfortunately, it is just a matter of time before you
                  aren't a parent any longer.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

                    On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 22:57:15 GMT, DTJ <[email protected]> wrote:
                    On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:25:58 -0500, Nan <[email protected]> wrote:
                    On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 03:05:08 GMT, Brandon Sommerville<[email protected]> wrote:
                    On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:37:38 -0600, toto <[email protected]>wrote:>If you get in an accident and the child needs to get out of the car>fast, I hope he doesn't wait for you to tell him its ok especially if>you have been knocked unconscious.>>The problem with hard and fast rules and obedience is that the>child doesn't learn how to judge when things are ok to do. And>the problem with punishment, especially harsh punishments is>that you will be teaching unintended lessons you don't want to>teach.So it's better to have your child willing to unbelt themselves whileyou're on the highway? Wow, great attitude! Even my four year oldknows better than that.
                    That's not what she said.Read the second paragraph again.I could easily see a child who's been taught they will be "severelypunished" for removing a seatbelt, being reluctant to do so in anemergency situation, therefore, coming to more potential harm.If the car is wrecked, or on fire, the kid would remain, since mommytold him to.
                    Don't be an idiot. If you truly believe any human being will sitthere and not unbuckle themselves when the car is on fire, you shouldnot have children. Hopefully Darwinism will eliminate your geneticprofile quickly.
                    Uhm, it was an example that you've taken too far. However, getting
                    back to the idea....
                    Children will do whatever they are told to do, and if they're not
                    allowed to think for themselves by being told they'll be "severely
                    punished", they can (and do) find themselves in bad positions.

                    Nan

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??


                      "DTJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                      news:[email protected]
                      : On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:42:44 -0700, "ColoradoSkiBum"
                      : <[email protected]> wrote:
                      :
                      : >tips, if anyone's interested: When you get pulled over, roll your window
                      : >down about 1/3 of the way, and keep both hands on the steering wheel as
                      s/he
                      :
                      : Why 1/3rd of the way?

                      I'm not sure. I guess because that's far enough to communicate with the
                      officer, but not far enough to be threatening. If your window is all the
                      way down, they see that as a potential danger.
                      --
                      ColoradoSkiBum

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

                        On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:04:25 GMT, DTJ <[email protected]> wrote:
                        You are an idiot. Punishment teaches children to behave.
                        No, it doesn't.
                        I would hate to see your kids. How often do your sons smack yoursorry *** around?
                        Sorry to burst your bubble, but my children (one son and one daughter)
                        have never hit me even when they were small.

                        My son is grown and has an infant daughter and a new son on the
                        way.and he has never been violent towards anyone at all including
                        me. But we never smacked him so he didn't learn to hit others.
                        When your son rapes the girl in his class, do you make apologies forhim and claim punishment is unnecessary? Next time he won't do it,because you say so.
                        Children learn what they live. My children have been brought up in
                        a home that is peaceful and resolves conflicts without resorting to
                        violence. The boys who are violent have learned to be so from the
                        adults around them. Most often they have been beaten by adults
                        and take out their rage on the weaker boys and the girls who cannot
                        stop them.


                        --
                        Dorothy

                        There is no sound, no cry in all the world
                        that can be heard unless someone listens ..

                        The Outer Limits

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

                          On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:06:01 GMT, DTJ <[email protected]> wrote:
                          On 23 Nov 2003 05:36:03 -0800, Banty <[email protected]> wrote:
                          You might not be aware, Al, but this thread was cross-posted to misc.kids.Internet (USENET, actually) discussion about raising kids is exactly what we'reabout.
                          You might not be aware, but if this is how your group raises children,we are going to need a whole lot more prisons in the future.
                          Neither the research nor the anecdotal evidence from my 30 years
                          of contact with children supports you in that. The people in jail
                          were more likely abused than brought up with positive parenting.

                          Thanks to another poster for this link to the research on Parent
                          Effectiveness Training principles.

                          http://www.gordontraining.com/FamilyResearch.asp


                          --
                          Dorothy

                          There is no sound, no cry in all the world
                          that can be heard unless someone listens ..

                          The Outer Limits

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

                            On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:02:32 GMT, DTJ <[email protected]> wrote:
                            The child unbelted his seatbelt after the car was stopped. A threeyear old knows the difference between when the car has stoppedand when it is moving.And that means they can tell the difference between a stop sign and acop pulling over their dumb *** mother how?
                            Generally because the motor of the car is turned off when the mother
                            has pulled over for a policeman.


                            --
                            Dorothy

                            There is no sound, no cry in all the world
                            that can be heard unless someone listens ..

                            The Outer Limits

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??

                              On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:31:57 -0600, [email protected]
                              (Matthew Russotto) wrote:
                              If not speeding (and otherwise following the law) is such a good wayto avoid getting a ticket for a moving violation, how do you explaingetting one for an act which is not illegal (going through a yellowlight)? Are we supposed to know and follow all the nonexistent lawsas well as the real ones?
                              The way it is explained here is that you are supposed to anticipate
                              and when you see the yellow, you know you are going to have to
                              stop. Too many people speed up to get through that yellow, but
                              by the time they are actually in the middle of the intersection, the
                              light has turned to red.

                              If the light turns red after you've passed that line and you're still
                              in the intersection...you just ran a red.


                              --
                              Dorothy

                              There is no sound, no cry in all the world
                              that can be heard unless someone listens ..

                              The Outer Limits

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Driving speed child seatbelt violation $430 ??


                                "toto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                                news:[email protected]
                                : On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:04:25 GMT, DTJ <[email protected]> wrote:
                                :
                                : >You are an idiot. Punishment teaches children to behave.
                                : >
                                : No, it doesn't.
                                :
                                : >I would hate to see your kids. How often do your sons smack your
                                : >sorry *** around?
                                : >
                                : Sorry to burst your bubble, but my children (one son and one daughter)
                                : have never hit me even when they were small.
                                :
                                : My son is grown and has an infant daughter and a new son on the
                                : way.and he has never been violent towards anyone at all including
                                : me. But we never smacked him so he didn't learn to hit others.
                                :
                                : >When your son rapes the girl in his class, do you make apologies for
                                : >him and claim punishment is unnecessary? Next time he won't do it,
                                : >because you say so.
                                :
                                : Children learn what they live. My children have been brought up in
                                : a home that is peaceful and resolves conflicts without resorting to
                                : violence. The boys who are violent have learned to be so from the
                                : adults around them. Most often they have been beaten by adults
                                : and take out their rage on the weaker boys and the girls who cannot
                                : stop them.

                                "Severe punishment" does not have to mean hitting, you know.
                                --
                                ColoradoSkiBum

                                Comment

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