Announcement

**Sky King** · 09-28-2003, 05:42 AM

Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

Robert Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

In article <[email protected] >, [email protected] (Sky King) wrote:

Why wouldn't I understand the wording? Its still double jeopardy.

No, it's not. "Double jeopardy" refers solely to the instance of being charged and tried more than once on the same count.

He is being punished twice for the same crime if he is forced to register
and he is harrassed by his neighbors.

The wisdom of some applications of notification laws (like this one) may be suspect, but those laws aren't unconstitutional in any sense, and while the notion of "you've done your time, now you can move on" may be a popular one, it isn't a legal one. It never has been.

Its a moral one. We try them, we convict them, they do their time and then
after probation they should be left alone.

Felonies carry all sorts of requirements following incarceration (probabtion, registration, restrictions on movement, loss of voting rights, etc.), some more than others, and registration-plus-notification is now one of them for some crimes that indicate, generally, the high probability of future danger to the community.

But with most crimes probation, restriction of movement etc. end when the
probation ends. After that time the person should not be bothered by the
state of neighbors.

And it's perfectly legal. --Robert

Sure it is but that does not make it right. Its legal for women to legally
abandon their children NO questions asked..but that does not make it right.

**Robert Lee** · 09-28-2003, 11:26 AM

Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

In article <[email protected] >,
[email protected] (Sky King) wrote:

Robert Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

In article <[email protected] >, [email protected] (Sky King) wrote:

Why wouldn't I understand the wording? Its still double jeopardy.

No, it's not. "Double jeopardy" refers solely to the instance of being charged and tried more than once on the same count.

He is being punished twice for the same crime if he is forced to register and he is harrassed by his neighbors.

(A) As I pointed out, and you ignored, "double jeopardy" refers
specifically to trial and (B) no, this isn't being "punished twice."
It's an ongoing phase of the punishment.

Its legal for women to legally abandon their children NO questions asked..

Uh...no, it's not.

--Robert

--
Do not sit next to Dennis

**Rich** · 09-28-2003, 02:13 PM

Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:26:39 GMT, Robert Lee
<[email protected]> wrote:

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Sky King) wrote:

[...]

Its legal for women to legally abandon their children NO questions asked..Uh...no, it's not.

I guess that depends on where you are.

---------------------------------------

http://www.religioustolerance.org/saf_have.htm

"SAVE HAVEN" LAWS"

DECRIMINALIZING THE ABANDONMENT OF NEWBORNS

"Safe Haven" laws:
By 2003-MAR-11, 42 states had enacted "save haven" laws which permit a person --
usually a parent -- to abandon a newborn baby, at a specified location. This may
be a hospital, firehouse, or police station. State laws differ:

Some states allow a newborn to be simply handed to a doctor or police officer.
The threat of criminal prosecution may be either reduced or eliminated,
depending on the state.
Some state laws allow the parent to remain anonymous; others require the person
who receives the newborn to attempt to establish the identity of the parent and
obtain a medical history.
Some states place a limit on the age of the newborn who can be abandoned. The
intent of this limit is to emphasize the importance of surrendering a newborn to
a place quickly where he or she can receive proper care. If a parent is hiding
their baby, it may not be receiving proper care and food.

The Safe Place for Newborns web site has a map of the U.S. that allows you to
click on your state and find out details about its safe haven law. 1

-------------------------------------------------

http://www.naplesnews.com/03/08/florida/d970330a.htm

Safe Haven laws promoted to help protect abandoned babies

Monday, August 25, 2003

By HOLLY HICKMAN, Associated Press

MIAMI — The call came in at 1 p.m. The volunteer who answered assured the young
woman that, yes, she could abandon her baby. Legally.

Following the volunteer's instructions, the newborn's mother went to a fire
station — no names, no questions, no arrest — and said goodbye to her daughter.

A few days later, baby Gloria Hope had a new home

[...]

========================

Rich

--Robert

**Robert Lee** · 09-28-2003, 04:02 PM

Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

In article <[email protected]>, Rich
<[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:26:39 GMT, Robert Lee <[email protected]> wrote:

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Sky King) wrote:

[...]

Its legal for women to legally abandon their children NO questions asked..Uh...no, it's not.

I guess that depends on where you are. --------------------------------------- http://www.religioustolerance.org/saf_have.htm "SAVE HAVEN" LAWS" DECRIMINALIZING THE ABANDONMENT OF NEWBORNS

Ah, god, I'd forgotten about that stupid ****. My bad.

So, somebody want to argue why women should have the legal ability to do
this and men shouldn't?

--Robert

--
Do not sit next to Dennis

**Sky King** · 09-29-2003, 04:33 AM

Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

Robert Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

In article <[email protected]>, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:26:39 GMT, Robert Lee <[email protected]> wrote:

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Sky King) wrote:

[...]

> Its legal for women to legally> abandon their children NO questions asked..Uh...no, it's not.

I guess that depends on where you are. --------------------------------------- http://www.religioustolerance.org/saf_have.htm "SAVE HAVEN" LAWS" DECRIMINALIZING THE ABANDONMENT OF NEWBORNS

Ah, god, I'd forgotten about that stupid ****. My bad. So, somebody want to argue why women should have the legal ability to do this and men shouldn't? --Robert

They will simply say that the law IS gender neutral when we all know it is not.
Feminist also say the VAWA is gender neutral when we all know it is not.
As long as women can opt out of parenthood men should have the same option.

**Child** · 09-29-2003, 06:03 PM

Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

"Sky King" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] om...

Robert Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...

In article <[email protected]>, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:26:39 GMT, Robert Lee <[email protected]> wrote: >In article <[email protected] >, >[email protected] (Sky King) wrote: [...] >> Its legal for women to legally >> abandon their children NO questions asked.. > >Uh...no, it's not. I guess that depends on where you are. --------------------------------------- http://www.religioustolerance.org/saf_have.htm "SAVE HAVEN" LAWS" DECRIMINALIZING THE ABANDONMENT OF NEWBORNS

Ah, god, I'd forgotten about that stupid ****. My bad. So, somebody want to argue why women should have the legal ability to do this and men shouldn't? --Robert They will simply say that the law IS gender neutral when we all know it is

not.

Feminist also say the VAWA is gender neutral when we all know it is not. As long as women can opt out of parenthood men should have the same

option.

I don't think abandonment should be legal for men or women. Giving a child
up for adoption however should be legal.

**stargazer** · 09-29-2003, 06:18 PM

Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

"Child" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"Sky King" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...

Robert Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...

In article <[email protected]>, Rich <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:26:39 GMT, Robert Lee > <[email protected]> wrote: > > >In article <[email protected] >, > >[email protected] (Sky King) wrote: > > [...] > > > >> Its legal for women to legally > >> abandon their children NO questions asked.. > > > >Uh...no, it's not. > > I guess that depends on where you are. > > --------------------------------------- > > http://www.religioustolerance.org/saf_have.htm > > "SAVE HAVEN" LAWS" > > DECRIMINALIZING THE ABANDONMENT OF NEWBORNS Ah, god, I'd forgotten about that stupid ****. My bad. So, somebody want to argue why women should have the legal ability to

do

this and men shouldn't? --Robert They will simply say that the law IS gender neutral when we all know it

is

not.

Feminist also say the VAWA is gender neutral when we all know it is not. As long as women can opt out of parenthood men should have the same

option. I don't think abandonment should be legal for men or women. Giving a child up for adoption however should be legal.

Personally, I think the leaving of a baby at a hospital, fire station, or
where ever ones state allows is far preferable than the dumping of bodies in
dumpsters or leaving babies in fields to freeze and starve.

sg

**Sky King** · 09-30-2003, 05:19 AM

Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

"stargazer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>.. .

"Child" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]

"Sky King" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...

Robert Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...

> In article <[email protected]>, Rich > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:26:39 GMT, Robert Lee > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >In article <[email protected] >, > > >[email protected] (Sky King) wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > > >> Its legal for women to legally > > >> abandon their children NO questions asked.. > > > > > >Uh...no, it's not. > > > > I guess that depends on where you are. > > > > --------------------------------------- > > > > http://www.religioustolerance.org/saf_have.htm > > > > "SAVE HAVEN" LAWS" > > > > DECRIMINALIZING THE ABANDONMENT OF NEWBORNS > > Ah, god, I'd forgotten about that stupid ****. My bad. > > So, somebody want to argue why women should have the legal ability to

do

> this and men shouldn't? > > --Robert They will simply say that the law IS gender neutral when we all know it

is not.

Feminist also say the VAWA is gender neutral when we all know it is not. As long as women can opt out of parenthood men should have the same option. I don't think abandonment should be legal for men or women. Giving a child up for adoption however should be legal.

Personally, I think the leaving of a baby at a hospital, fire station, or where ever ones state allows is far preferable than the dumping of bodies in dumpsters or leaving babies in fields to freeze and starve. sg

Then you support men being able to do the same thing right? You cannot have
double standards.

**Alan Mackenzie** · 10-01-2003, 12:46 AM

Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

Sky King <[email protected]> wrote on 30 Sep 2003 06:19:31 -0700:

"stargazer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>.. .
Personally, I think the leaving of a baby at a hospital, fire station, or where ever ones state allows is far preferable than the dumping of bodies in dumpsters or leaving babies in fields to freeze and starve.
sg
Then you support men being able to do the same thing right? You cannot have double standards.

I think it clear that she does, or would, as do I.

But this particular measure is not about the rights of men or women.
It's simply a pragmatic (and sensible) response to the abandoning of new
born babies by women who can't cope. It's about saving babies' lives.

In practice, in those (presumably rare) cases where men are left holding
the baby, they're able to cope better, since their hormonal systems are
not in such chaos as those of women who've just given birth.

I suspect that a man seeking help for a young baby at a hospital/fire
station/wherever, would get it. If he was seeking to abandon a baby
there, he'd probably manage that too. Again, this probably happens
vanishingly rarely.

--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany)
Email: [email protected]; to decode, wherever there is a repeated letter
(like "aa"), remove half of them (leaving, say, "a").

**Sky King** · 10-02-2003, 05:38 AM

Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

Alan Mackenzie<[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

Sky King <[email protected]> wrote on 30 Sep 2003 06:19:31 -0700:

"stargazer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>.. . Personally, I think the leaving of a baby at a hospital, fire station, or where ever ones state allows is far preferable than the dumping of bodies in dumpsters or leaving babies in fields to freeze and starve. sg Then you support men being able to do the same thing right? You cannot have double standards.

I think it clear that she does, or would, as do I. But this particular measure is not about the rights of men or women. It's simply a pragmatic (and sensible) response to the abandoning of new born babies by women who can't cope. It's about saving babies' lives.

Nope..it gives s specific right to women that men do not get. They do
not
have to show they are a danger to the baby. They can legally abandon,
no
questions asked and even if the father finds the child and retrieves
it, he mother NEVER has to pay CS. It seems to me its just a way to
let women opt
out of parenthood. Why should a woman give the child to its father
when
she knows she will be forced to pay CS? Its easier to legally abandon
it.

In practice, in those (presumably rare) cases where men are left holding the baby, they're able to cope better, since their hormonal systems are not in such chaos as those of women who've just given birth.

They do not have to show that they were LEFT by the father. He may
want the
child but if they are not married he has NO rights.

I suspect that a man seeking help for a young baby at a hospital/fire station/wherever, would get it. If he was seeking to abandon a baby there, he'd probably manage that too. Again, this probably happens vanishingly rarely.

Nope...the first thing they would ask is where is the mother. They do
not
ask where is the father when women drop them off. Women can just say
they
have no idea who the father is. The man cannot.

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Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

Man Must Register As A Sex Offender Even Without A Conviction

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