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Week I, and still no answer from Paul Thomas.

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  • Week I, and still no answer from Paul Thomas.


    "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote



    You asked me a question? Who would have guessed.


    When considering whether or not to accept a promotion, or work overtime, or some similar decision (e.g., second earner status in a family, etc....), would you agree that the value judgment can be defined as the money on one side of the equation, and all of the other considerations (e.g., stress, time, travel, etc...) on the other?

    That's what I've been saying all along. Glad to see that you've come over
    to my side of the fence.

    You can't carve out one thing (like taxes) and apply that in a universal
    manner to all workers.

    In some cases the "other side" (the non-cash side) carries such weight that
    it can't be overcome by dollars.

    But again, glad to see you finally agree with me.



    --
    Paul A. Thomas, CPA
    Athens, Georgia
    taxman at negia.net



  • #2
    Week I, and still no answer from Paul Thomas.


    "Paul A Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote You asked me a question? Who would have guessed.
    When considering whether or not to accept a promotion, or work overtime, or some similar decision (e.g., second earner status in a family, etc....), would you agree that the value judgment can be defined as the money on one side of the equation, and all of the other considerations (e.g., stress, time, travel, etc...) on the other?
    That's what I've been saying all along. Glad to see that you've come over to my side of the fence.
    Well, that's a lie because all you ever replied when I asked you this directly
    is that there are lots of other considerations, even though I've accounted for
    all considerations in my model. But alas, lies are to be expected of you.
    You can't carve out one thing (like taxes) and apply that in a universal manner to all workers.
    You're getting way ahead of yourself. Where, in the above, have I ever
    mentioned taxes? Please provide a direct and relevant reply. I don't want to
    have to embarrass you again.
    In some cases the "other side" (the non-cash side) carries such weight that it can't be overcome by dollars.
    No ****. Where have I ever given any indication of anytheing else? Please
    provide a direct and relevant reply. I don't want to have to embarrass you
    again.
    But again, glad to see you finally agree with me.
    I'm sure you feel that way.

    Now for the follow-up. Whereas you fully agree with me that money is on one
    side of the equation, and all other considerations on the other side, do you
    agree that the term *money* refers to the actual money that the person making
    that judgment would receive (IOW, the net pay), or do you cling to the notion
    that it refers to the gross amount (i.e., before taxes)?


    Comment


    • #3
      Week I, and still no answer from Paul Thomas.


      "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote
      When considering whether or not to accept a promotion, or work overtime, or some similar decision (e.g., second earner status in a family, etc....), would you agree that the value judgment can be defined as the money on one side of the equation, and all of the other considerations (e.g., stress, time, travel, etc...) on the other? That's what I've been saying all along. Glad to see that you've come over to my side of the fence. Well, that's a lie because all you ever replied when I asked you this directly is that there are lots of other considerations,

      Isn't that what you just asked me?

      Yes. In fact is was...."and all of the other considerations (e.g., stress,
      time, travel, etc...) on the other?"

      There ARE lots of other considerations. Sometimes just one, sometimes many.
      But in each individual case, it differs. Hence, LOTS of other
      considerations, each set by the person who decides.




      --
      Paul A. Thomas, CPA
      Athens, Georgia
      taxman at negia.net


      Comment


      • #4
        Week I, and still no answer from Paul Thomas.


        "Paul A Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
        news:[email protected]
        "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote
        > When considering whether or not to accept a promotion, or work overtime, or> some similar decision (e.g., second earner status in a family, etc....),> would you agree that the value judgment can be defined as the money on one> side of the equation, and all of the other considerations (e.g., stress,> time, travel, etc...) on the other? That's what I've been saying all along. Glad to see that you've come over to my side of the fence. Well, that's a lie because all you ever replied when I asked you this directly is that there are lots of other considerations,
        Isn't that what you just asked me?
        I asked youi essentailly the same question I asked above, and you never answered
        except to say that there are other considerations, but never answered how those
        are to be valued. Obviously, you have no idea what a value judgement is.
        Yes. In fact is was...."and all of the other considerations (e.g., stress, time, travel, etc...) on the other?" There ARE lots of other considerations. Sometimes just one, sometimes many. But in each individual case, it differs. Hence, LOTS of other considerations, each set by the person who decides.
        Again, a non-responsive reply. That response would apply to the question of
        whether or not there are other considerations, but not to my question as to how
        they are valued.

        But in your post before this last one, you did finally answer the question, but
        then never addressed any of your other misstatements, lies, or the follow up
        question, so it looks like I'll have to call you out again.

        Comment


        • #5
          Week I, and still no answer from Paul Thomas.


          "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote
          I asked youi essentailly the same question

          Yes, I know.

          but never answered how those are to be valued.

          I remember saying that each person decides what their own values are.

          In fact I said......."each set by the person who decides"

          Far be it from me to set the values of another.


          Obviously, you have no idea what a value judgement is.

          Whatever you think.

          Yes. In fact is was...."and all of the other considerations (e.g., stress, time, travel, etc...) on the other?" There ARE lots of other considerations. Sometimes just one, sometimes many. But in each individual case, it differs. Hence, LOTS of other considerations, each set by the person who decides. Again, a non-responsive reply.

          Says you.


          That response would apply to the question of whether or not there are other considerations, but not to my question as to how they are valued.
          I said....."each set by the person who decides."

          And in another earlier post I said...."In some cases the "other side" (the
          non-cash side) carries such weight that it can't be overcome by dollars."

          How that person values the other factors is not of my concern.


          But in your post before this last one, you did finally answer the question,
          Yes, I know.

          Are you going to run this full circle until you agree with me again?



          --
          Paul A. Thomas, CPA
          Athens, Georgia
          taxman at negia.net


          Comment


          • #6
            Lurker Warning....still no answer. Gross or Net?


            "Paul A Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
            news:[email protected]
            "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote
            I asked youi essentailly the same question
            Yes, I know.
            but never answered how those are to be valued.
            I remember saying that each person decides what their own values are. In fact I said......."each set by the person who decides" Far be it from me to set the values of another.
            Yes, I know you answered that way, but that's not an answer to my question. I'm
            asking about the process by which that valuation is made, and not the valuation
            itself.

            Note to lurkers: This is what passes for logic and intellect on the part of
            Paul Thomas.
            Obviously, you have no idea what a value judgement is. Whatever you think.
            I'm glad you finally agree with me.
            Yes. In fact is was...."and all of the other considerations (e.g., stress, time, travel, etc...) on the other?" There ARE lots of other considerations. Sometimes just one, sometimes many. But in each individual case, it differs. Hence, LOTS of other considerations, each set by the person who decides. Again, a non-responsive reply. Says you.
            Correctly.
            That response would apply to the question of whether or not there are other considerations, but not to my question as to how they are valued. I said....."each set by the person who decides."
            I know what you said, and as I clearly point out, it's totally non-responsive to
            the question.
            And in another earlier post I said...."In some cases the "other side" (the non-cash side) carries such weight that it can't be overcome by dollars." How that person values the other factors is not of my concern.
            Mine neither. However, you've already agreed that the model I proposed for
            making such value judgements is valid. Therefore, you should have no problem
            answering the simple question as to defining the term *money*. Is it the gross
            amount of compensation, or is it the net amount? Which amount should be used in
            that value judgement?
            But in your post before this last one, you did finally answer the question, Yes, I know. Are you going to run this full circle until you agree with me again?
            I can understand how you believe that you're running in circles. Specifically,
            because you are. But actually, to break that vicious cycle, all you have to do
            is answer a simple question........when a person is making the value judgment
            referenced above, does he/she use the net amount, or the gross amount? What
            would you advise?

            Here, ;et me make this even more simple. Of all the factors to be considered in
            taking a promotion, one of them is the increase in compensation. On that
            factor, should the person use the gross amount of the raise in considering the
            promotion offer, or should he/she use the net amount?

            Comment


            • #7
              Lurker Warning....still no answer. Gross or Net?


              "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote
              Yes, I know you answered that way, but that's not an answer to my question.

              It's not the answer you want.

              I'm asking about the process by which that valuation is made, and not the valuation itself.

              I don't know how or why people value things. I have no clue as to what
              process they go through in valuing things. But, each person will value
              things differently.


              ...when a person is making the value judgment referenced above, does he/she use the net amount, or the gross amount?

              I don't have a clue as to what a person uses in making their own mind up.

              But, it used to be safe to say, that each person decides what they value
              more.


              --
              Paul A. Thomas, CPA
              Athens, Georgia
              taxman at negia.net


              Comment


              • #8
                Lurker Warning....still no answer. Gross or Net?


                "Paul A Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                news:[email protected]
                "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote
                Yes, I know you answered that way, but that's not an answer to my question.
                It's not the answer you want.
                I want an anwser to my question.
                I'm asking about the process by which that valuation is made, and not the valuation itself. I don't know how or why people value things. I have no clue as to what process they go through in valuing things. But, each person will value things differently.
                Note to lurkers, Paul Thomas still refuses to answer the question posed to him.
                He'll answer any other question posted in this NG, and he's never short of
                advise to anyone, but yet he can't answer this simple question.

                I'm not asking him the value which others will place on various factors. I'm
                simply asking him if, in that valuation process, whether a person should
                consider the actual money which they'll receive, or should they consider money
                which they'll never see under any circumstances. I'm simply asking for his
                opinion on this, that's all. I'm not asking him to predict how other people
                will actually consider the issue, but simply what would be most sensible to him.
                ...when a person is making the value judgment referenced above, does he/she use the net amount, or the gross amount? I don't have a clue as to what a person uses in making their own mind up.
                But what's your opinion? What would you advise? On this one factor, should
                they use the net amount, or the gross amount? Please give us the benefit of
                your wisdom.
                But, it used to be safe to say, that each person decides what they value more.
                Of course it is. But in considering that value, should they use the net amount
                (i.e., the amount which will actually affect their lifestyle), or should they
                use the gross amount (i.e., mush of which will have no affect upon their
                lifestyle at all)?

                This is actually a simple question. Why all the extreme avoidance?


                Comment


                • #9
                  Lurker Warning....still no answer. Gross or Net?


                  "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote
                  I want an anwser to my question.

                  You answered it for yourself, so I took it that you were self-satisfied.


                  I don't know how or why people value things. I have no clue as to what process they go through in valuing things. But, each person will value things differently. Note to lurkers, Paul Thomas still refuses to answer the question posed to him.

                  What question?


                  I'm not asking him the value which others will place on various factors.
                  Yes, you are.

                  I'm simply asking him if, in that valuation process, whether a person should consider the actual money which they'll receive, or should they consider money which they'll never see under any circumstances.

                  I don't make valuation decisions for anyone. They should decide on their
                  own what values they place on things.


                  I'm simply asking for his opinion on this, that's all.

                  My opinion is : THEY get to decide what values they place on things.

                  I'm not asking him to predict how other people will actually consider the issue,

                  Then why are you asking me?

                  Quoteth "AllYou":
                  I'm simply asking him if, in that valuation process, whether a person should consider the actual money which they'll receive, or should they consider money which they'll never see under any circumstances.

                  but simply what would be most sensible to him.

                  You haven't asked me that question.



                  ...when a person is making the value judgment referenced above, does he/she use the net amount, or the gross amount? I don't have a clue as to what a person uses in making their own mind up. But what's your opinion?

                  I don't make valuation decisions for anyone. They should decide on their
                  own what values they place on things.


                  What would you advise?
                  They should decide on their own what values they place on things.


                  On this one factor, should they use the net amount, or the gross amount?
                  Once again, it's their decision to make.

                  Please give us the benefit of your wisdom.

                  You seem to think you're pertty good at deciding for me, so decide away.



                  --
                  Paul A. Thomas, CPA
                  Athens, Georgia
                  taxman at negia.net


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lurker Warning....beware of advie from Thomas. See below.


                    "Paul A Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                    news:[email protected]
                    "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote
                    I want an anwser to my question.
                    You answered it for yourself, so I took it that you were self-satisfied.
                    But I want *your* answer.
                    I don't know how or why people value things. I have no clue as to what process they go through in valuing things. But, each person will value things differently. Note to lurkers, Paul Thomas still refuses to answer the question posed to him. What question?
                    You know the question Paul. But to be sure you do, I just reasked it in a new
                    thread.
                    I'm not asking him the value which others will place on various factors. Yes, you are.
                    No I'm not. Lurkers: Refer to the new thraed just started. The question is
                    asked again there.
                    I'm simply asking him if, in that valuation process, whether a person should consider the actual money which they'll receive, or should they consider money which they'll never see under any circumstances. I don't make valuation decisions for anyone. They should decide on their own what values they place on things.
                    Once again, I'm not asking you to give advise as to what value to place on
                    things. But you already know this, don't you Paul. No, I'm simply asking you
                    for your opinion as to which amount to use, the net amount of a raise, or the
                    gross amount. What's your advise Paul?
                    I'm simply asking for his opinion on this, that's all. My opinion is : THEY get to decide what values they place on things.
                    That's not the question. The question is is determining those values of other
                    factors, which amount should they use, the groos amount, or the net amount?
                    I'm not asking him to predict how other people will actually consider the issue,
                    Then why are you asking me?
                    I want to know what your advise to the questions above would be. I want to know
                    your opinion.
                    Quoteth "AllYou":
                    I'm simply asking him if, in that valuation process, whether a person should consider the actual money which they'll receive, or should they consider money which they'll never see under any circumstances. but simply what would be most sensible to him.
                    You haven't asked me that question.
                    I've asked you that question over an over again. But just to be sure, I've
                    begun a new thread on the subject, and will continue to do so until you answer.
                    > ...when a person is making the value judgment referenced> above, does he/she use the net amount, or the gross amount? I don't have a clue as to what a person uses in making their own mind up. But what's your opinion?
                    I don't make valuation decisions for anyone. They should decide on their own what values they place on things.
                    I'm not asking for a valuation decision, as you, and everyone else who reads
                    these posts know. But you'd rather be seen as stupid than wrong, correct, Paul?
                    We all know that I'm asking whether or not the net amount or the gross amount of
                    a raise should be used.
                    What would you advise? They should decide on their own what values they place on things.
                    That's not the question, Paul, as you well know.

                    Lurker note: If you need advise, and you take it from Paul, this is the kind of
                    logic and intellect he'll use in formulating it. IOW, you'll get an answer
                    which might seem to fit the question, but be very careful, because in the end,
                    it may not have any relevance at all.
                    On this one factor, should they use the net amount, or the gross amount? Once again, it's their decision to make.
                    But what's your advise? This question isn't about valuing other factors, it's
                    about which amount should they use, gross pay or net pay, in order to complete
                    the valuation process.
                    Please give us the benefit of your wisdom. You seem to think you're pertty good at deciding for me, so decide away.
                    I'm simply asking you a simple question, Paul.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Lurker Warning....beware of advie from Thomas. See below.


                      "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote
                      But I want *your* answer.

                      You provided my answer, so I thought you were satisfied.



                      I don't make valuation decisions for anyone. They should decide on their own what values they place on things. Once again, I'm not asking you to give advise
                      Yes, you are, and you did.

                      "What's your advise Paul?"
                      Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:15:29 -0400



                      No, I'm simply asking you for your opinion as to which amount to use, the net amount of a raise, or the gross amount. What's your advise Paul?

                      You just said you weren't asking for my advice.

                      From above:
                      "Once again, I'm not asking you to give advise"

                      I'm simply asking for his opinion on this, that's all. My opinion is : THEY get to decide what values they place on things. That's not the question.
                      Then why did you ask it?

                      The question is is determining those values of other factors, which amount should they use, the groos amount, or the net amount?

                      I don't get to decide which factors are of most importance to someone.

                      I want to know what your advise to the questions above would be. I want to know your opinion.

                      My opinion is, THEY get to decide which factors carry the most wright. THEY
                      place the values on those factors.

                      I'm not asking for a valuation decision,
                      You're asking me to tell someone what factors they should value most highly.

                      We all know that I'm asking whether or not the net amount or the gross amount of a raise should be used.
                      I know what you are asking, but those aren't the only factors in making a
                      decision. What other factors are used is to be determined by the person
                      making the decision.


                      What would you advise? They should decide on their own what values they place on things. That's not the question,
                      That is my advice.

                      On this one factor, should they use the net amount, or the gross amount? Once again, it's their decision to make. But what's your advise? This question isn't about valuing other factors, it's about which amount should they use, gross pay or net pay, in order to complete the valuation process.

                      Why should I decide for them which factors they get to choose from in making
                      a decision like that?

                      I'm simply asking you a simple question, Paul.

                      And a simple answer was given.

                      Maybe that is the problem. The answer was not simple enough.



                      --
                      Paul A. Thomas, CPA
                      Athens, Georgia
                      taxman at negia.net


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Paul Thomas snips posts so as to lie. See below.


                        "Paul A Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                        news:[email protected]
                        "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote
                        But I want *your* answer.
                        You provided my answer, so I thought you were satisfied.
                        I'm not, so what's your answer?
                        I don't make valuation decisions for anyone. They should decide on their own what values they place on things. Once again, I'm not asking you to give advise Yes, you are, and you did.
                        Just to expose your lying ways, here's the whole context of my comment:

                        Once again, I'm not asking you to give advise as to what value to place on
                        things. But you already know this, don't you Paul. No, I'm simply asking you
                        for your opinion as to which amount to use, the net amount of a raise, or the
                        gross amount. What's your advise Paul?
                        "What's your advise Paul?" Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:15:29 -0400
                        No, I'm simply asking you for your opinion as to which amount to use, the net amount of a raise, or the gross amount. What's your advise Paul?
                        You just said you weren't asking for my advice.
                        That's a lie, Paul, as I've pointed out not only here, but in a new thread, for
                        all to see.
                        From above: "Once again, I'm not asking you to give advise"
                        > I'm simply asking for his opinion on this, that's all. My opinion is : THEY get to decide what values they place on things. That's not the question.
                        Then why did you ask it?
                        I didn't.
                        The question is is determining those values of other factors, which amount should they use, the groos amount, or the net amount? I don't get to decide which factors are of most importance to someone.
                        I know, but as we all can see, that wasn't my question. Why are you so afraid,
                        Paul? It's obvious that you're simply too afraid to answer a simple question.
                        Why is that?
                        I want to know what your advise to the questions above would be. I want to know your opinion. My opinion is, THEY get to decide which factors carry the most wright. THEY place the values on those factors.
                        That's not the question I'm asking you.
                        I'm not asking for a valuation decision, You're asking me to tell someone what factors they should value most highly.
                        Not at all. You know it, I know it, and anyone else reading these posts knows
                        it. Once again, you lie.
                        We all know that I'm asking whether or not the net amount or the gross amount of a raise should be used.
                        I know what you are asking, but those aren't the only factors in making a decision. What other factors are used is to be determined by the person making the decision.
                        You do know what I'm asking, but you're purposefully avoiding giving me a direct
                        answer.
                        > What would you advise? They should decide on their own what values they place on things. That's not the question,
                        That is my advice.
                        To a different question.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Paul Thomas snips posts so as to lie. See below.


                          "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote in
                          Once again, I'm not asking you to give advise
                          What's your advise Paul?


                          Case closed.

                          And so ends my responses to your questions.



                          --
                          Paul A. Thomas, CPA
                          Athens, Georgia
                          taxman at negia.net


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Paul Thomas concedes defeat and total humiliation.


                            "Paul A Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                            news:[email protected]
                            "AllYou!" <[email protected]> wrote in
                            Once again, I'm not asking you to give advise What's your advise Paul?
                            Case closed. And so ends my responses to your questions.

                            Comment

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