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Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?

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  • Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?



    I wonder if anyone has experience or knowledge regarding the rules that
    apply if greencard holde does not live all the time in the US - how long
    every year could one be out of the US, does immigration has a way to tell
    exactly how long one actually was out of the US and can they take away the
    greencard on that basis?

    Thanks

    Dan




  • #2
    Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?


    Originally posted by Oren
    .... does immigration has a way to tell exactly how long one actually was out of the US and can they take away the greencard on that basis?
    They run the greencard through a scanner every time you pass through
    immigration, and yes the INS can cancel a greencard if they decide that
    you are no longer, and haven't been for twelve months, a permanent
    resident of the USA.


    --
    Posted via http://britishexpats.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?


      Originally posted by Oren
      I wonder if anyone has experience or knowledge regarding the rules that
      apply if greencard holde does not live all the time in the US - how long
      every year could one be out of the US, does immigration has a way to tell
      exactly how long one actually was out of the US and can they take away the
      greencard on that basis?

      Thanks

      Dan


      Your status comes up for review at 6 months and 12 months outside the
      US.


      --
      Posted via http://britishexpats.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?


        [Does anybody know the answer on this question?

        It is an old topic,
        but, there are simply no reliable answers.


        --
        Posted via http://britishexpats.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?


          Originally posted by kazic
          [Does anybody know the
          answer on this question?
          It is an old topic, but, there are simply
          no reliable answers.


          "An LPR is supposed to live and work
          permanently in the U.S. Any absence of more than 180 days outside the
          U.S. in any trip is considered reason to consider that the person does
          not intend to reside permanently in the U.S. So, the government / DHS
          believes that they have the right to confiscate the GC of the person.
          There is an article on this topic on MurthyDotCom. The link is in the
          rumors section as this issue is discussed as the first rumor (at the
          bottom of the page)." http://www.murthy.com/chat0421.html



          Rumor : A Permanent Resident can maintain status by making brief,
          yearly visits to the U.S. Posted April 19, 2002

          Clarification : This is
          not the case. Permanent residents can reenter the U.S. using their
          "green cards" or "temporary evidence of I-551" passport stamps if they
          have been out of the country for less than a year. However, in addition
          to having an absence of less than a year, the green card holder must
          also be returning to an un-relinquished domicile after a temporary
          absence. The INS can make a determination as to whether permanent
          residence has been abandoned, based on the facts of the case. (See also,
          Re-entry Permit for Travel and Immigration Rumor : Travel by Permanent
          Resident). http://www.murthy.com/rumor.html

          Immigration
          Rumor : Travel by Permanent Resident

          At The Law Office of Sheela
          Murthy, we are always receiving eMails, phone calls, messages on
          MurthyForum, and questions on the weekly MurthyChat seeking facts.
          Whether the result of spreading an erroneous understanding of the law or
          being caught in media frenzy over an issue which is constantly changing,
          there are always items needing knowledgeable, clear-headed explanation.
          Immigrants can rely on the MurthyBulletin and MurthyDotCom to separate
          fiction from truth and to clarify those truths.

          There are certain
          common rumors and in U.S. immigration law with respect to travel outside
          the U.S. after obtaining permanent residence. Once one is a permanent
          resident, the green card (Form I-551) or the "temporary evidence of I-
          551" passport stamp is the appropriate document for gaining re-entry to
          the U.S. following an absence of less than one year. Based upon this
          rule, there is a mistaken belief that one can maintain permanent
          residency simply with brief, yearly visits the U.S. and never having an
          absence of more than a year. This is not the case.

          The "one year" rule
          has two requirements. The green card is the appropriate document for re-
          entry only if (a) the absence from the U.S. is less than a year AND (b)
          the person is returning to an un-relinquished, lawful permanent
          residence after a temporary absence. The mere return to the U.S. does
          not "revalidate" the green card; the INS can make a determination that
          the permanent residence status has been abandoned.

          Following 9/11, some
          Port of Entry (POE) Inspectors at U.S. international airports require a
          person with the I-551 stamp in the passport (who does not have the
          actual I-551 card) to go into secondary inspection. In these cases,
          keeping a copy of the approved labor certification and the approved I-
          140 petition may be helpful.

          In some instances, people travel between
          the U.S. and their home countries once every six months. Although
          helpful in some respects to avoid delays at the POE, again the mere
          re-entry every six months does not guarantee one's being able to file
          for U.S. citizenship or maintaining permanent residence. The real issue
          is whether a person intending to return to the U.S. as a permanent
          resident relinquished his/her permanent resident status by
          abandonment.

          The determination regarding abandonment is based
          upon a review of the specific facts of the case. The INS must
          determine if the absence from the U.S. was temporary or not. The
          temporary nature of the absence is not solely determined based on the
          number of days spent outside the U.S., but depends rather upon whether
          the individual had a continuous, uninterrupted intention to return to
          the U.S.

          INS looks at a person's behavior and ties to the U.S. to
          determine intent. Among the main factors considered are family ties,
          property holdings, business affiliations, length of stay outside the
          U.S. and local community ties. The INS will compare the existence of
          these factors in the U.S. vs. similar ties outside the U.S. The INS also
          considers U.S. tax filings, employment and whether there is a physical
          residence that has been maintained during the absence/s. Furthermore, in
          order to be regarded as temporary, the trip must have either a fixed
          termination date or be based upon an event that has a reasonable
          possibility of occurring within a relatively short period. Examples of
          the latter are travel abroad to temporarily care for a sick relative or
          to sell off personal assets abroad. The exact timeframe for the trip may
          not be known initially, but the travel must be for a particular, short-
          term purpose.

          Given the great lengths to which most people go in order
          to obtain permanent residence status, care should be taken not to
          abandon one's status, if that is not the intent.


          http://www.murthy.com/UDirtra.html




          Got it? You can
          leave for up to 6 months (in a year) without triggering a review of your
          status and at 12 months out of the country you have abandoned your
          status. Since you seem to have so much doubt, why don't you call the
          BCIS (maybe several times to assure yourself) and see what the answer
          is? That is the proper way to get the official answer to a question
          like this anyway.

          Most trips would be like a few weeks.. a few months.
          That would be normal. Going out of the country frequently for long
          trips is going to raise suspicion (especially if you're not even in the
          country half the time). That is why people get their citizenship.. no
          more hassles... you can even go and live in another
          country........common sense.


          --
          Posted via http://britishexpats.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?


            Jautee, thank you for fast response.
            However, the facts you are
            mentioning are commongly known.

            The question was: Does INS knows how
            long was the green catrd holder abroad?

            Some participants mentioned
            that upon arrival in the USA the INS officer, after looking in computer,
            knew exactly how many days they were abroad. Another speculated that
            these data were provided by airplane companies.

            But, there were no
            reliable info: for example, what is the name of computer system giving
            info for each green card holder, which info are provided (only the last
            trip or the entire travel history since immigration).... What is the
            case with the travel by car to Mecico or Canada and after that traveling
            by airplane to other countries....

            The computer system of the airline
            companies has its name, format and the info about it is easily
            available. But, there are no info about what INS knows for each green
            card holder. Are there all departures (both car and airplanes) or only
            the last trip....

            These info are very important for the naturalization.
            IO would like to avoid giving the wrong departure dates for trips, many
            years ago, I already have forgotten. May be, INS could give a help by
            printing out all departure and arrival dates.

            And, it is amazing that
            there is no answer on such a simple and important question.


            --
            Posted via http://britishexpats.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?


              YES, they do. When you go for your citizenship interview, the POE
              (including airports), date and time is on the computer monitor. They
              know how long you've been out.

              For naturalization application/
              interview I think they would expect you to know the last 5 years of
              trips to some accuracy even though you must list all. If you can't
              remember EXACTLY, I don't think it will be a problem. They just want
              the month of exit and entry in some cases, like at the ceremony. You
              could keep a record to make it easier.

              The request is at part 7 of the
              application. ]http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/N-
              400.pdf[/url] where they ask you to list starting with the most recent.
              I believe I could not remember exactly either and put month/year for
              older trips or guessed the day.


              Originally posted by kazic
              Jautee, thank you for fast response. However, the facts you are
              mentioning are commongly known.
              The question was: Does INS knows
              how long was the green catrd holder abroad?
              Some participants
              mentioned that upon arrival in the USA the INS officer, after looking in
              computer, knew exactly how many days they were abroad. Another
              speculated that these data were provided by airplane companies.But, there were no reliable info: for example, what is the name of
              computer system giving info for each green card holder, which info are
              provided (only the last trip or the entire travel history since
              immigration).... What is the case with the travel by car to Mecico or
              Canada and after that traveling by airplane to other countries....The computer system of the airline companies has its name, format and
              the info about it is easily available. But, there are no info about what
              INS knows for each green card holder. Are there all departures (both car
              and airplanes) or only the last trip....
              These info are very
              important for the naturalization. IO would like to avoid giving the
              wrong departure dates for trips, many years ago, I already have
              forgotten. May be, INS could give a help by printing out all departure
              and arrival dates.And, it is amazing that there is no answer on
              such a simple and important question.


              --
              Posted via http://britishexpats.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?


                How do they know?

                they ask you how long you been out. Now you wouldn't
                LIE now would you?

                They'll ask you FIRST. Then they check their
                computers. That way the onus is on YOU first. If they find you lied to
                them -- big problems.

                So in reality -- the answer to the question is
                irrelevant. Best thing to do -- remain a "resident".

                -= nav =-


                --
                Posted via http://britishexpats.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?


                  Computer database was the plausible answer to be expected.

                  But:
                  Is
                  there any official info about it?
                  What is the name of database system?

                  Since which date it is in use?
                  Are only US airports as POE included?

                  Are the trips by car/bus to Canada/Mexico included?
                  Are the Canadian
                  airports included?
                  Are the Mexican airports included?

                  Well, it is
                  astonishing how few info about it is available. I noticed the
                  difference: Several years ago, when returning to USA, I was asked how
                  long was I abroad. Last time - no questions at all.

                  So, there is
                  apparently some new system in use - with no name, with no official info
                  about introduction...

                  On the other side, the system for airline
                  companies providing passanger data is well documented. It looks like
                  that these data are being sorted out, collected and saved for each
                  permanent resident.


                  --
                  Posted via http://britishexpats.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?

                    jaytee <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
                    Originally posted by kazic
                    [Does anybody know the
                    answer on this question?
                    It is an old topic, but, there are simply
                    no reliable answers.
                    What if some people (say a parent of someone) who has greencard enter
                    US using visit visa on their passport and get out while it would be
                    appearing that the person is living inside US?

                    A while back, someone boasts that his sister has a greencard and
                    lives back home and that she comes here every year to renew it.
                    Now..I wonder what is that she renews?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?

                      Amanda wrote on 2/18/2004 10:52:
                      What if some people (say a parent of someone) who has greencard enter US using visit visa on their passport and get out while it would be appearing that the person is living inside US?
                      If they enter on a visitor visa, they indicate that they live abroad
                      and have abandoned the GC.
                      A while back, someone boasts that his sister has a greencard and lives back home and that she comes here every year to renew it. Now..I wonder what is that she renews?
                      This may work for a while, but eventually, CIS will find out and
                      revoke the GC.
                      It is not and has never been enough to just show up once in a while.
                      There have been court cases about it. See, e.g.,
                      http://www.americanlaw.com/maintlpr.html
                      http://www.murthy.com/ukreeperm.html

                      -Joe

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?


                        Originally posted by kazic
                        Computer database was the
                        plausible answer to be expected.
                        But: Is there any official info
                        about it?
                        What is the name of database system? Since which date it
                        is in use?
                        Are only US airports as POE included? Are the trips by
                        car/bus to Canada/Mexico included?
                        Are the Canadian airports included?
                        Are the Mexican airports included? Well, it is astonishing how
                        few info about it is available. I noticed the difference: Several years
                        ago, when returning to USA, I was asked how long was I abroad. Last time
                        - no questions at all.
                        So, there is apparently some new system in
                        use - with no name, with no official info about introduction...
                        On
                        the other side, the system for airline companies providing passanger
                        data is well documented. It looks like that these data are being sorted
                        out, collected and saved for each permanent resident.


                        You
                        may be interested in this news article:


                        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3326279.stm


                        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2807337.stm

                        Sorry, I
                        can't answer your questions.. I don't know the answers. However, in the
                        article it mentions transmission of airline passenger information to US
                        customs http://www.customs.treas.gov

                        UNITED STATES CUSTOMS &
                        BORDER PROTECTION

                        Their website has this information about Ports Of
                        Entry:

                        Ports Of Entry

                        Ports of entry are responsible for daily
                        port specific operations. There are 317 official ports of entry in the
                        United States and 14 preclearance stations in Canada and the Caribbean.
                        Port personnel are the face at the border for most cargo and visitors
                        entering the United States. Here CBP enforces the import and export laws
                        and regulations of the U.S. federal government and conducts immigration
                        policy and programs. Ports also perform agriculture inspections to
                        protect the USA from potential carriers of animal and plant pests or
                        diseases that could cause serious damage to America's crops, livestock,
                        pets, and the environment.

                        They also have this to say about OIT,
                        database, software, hardware survey

                        Answer
                        Customs does not
                        answer survey questions about our technology systems. (If you need
                        information to satisfy a Government contract call Network Solutions
                        Division, OIT at (703) 927-6320.



                        In the end the best way to secure
                        your entry into the US and eliminate the hassles is to get citizenship.
                        A US citizen can go and live abroad and always come back whereas a LPR
                        can never leave to go and live in another country if they want to keep
                        their status. The real problem with LPR is you are still here as a
                        guest. LPR is a status that you have to maintain as it is revokable.
                        After you live in the US for a while, you tend to forget that,
                        especially if you grew up in the US as a LPR.


                        --
                        Posted via http://britishexpats.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?

                          kazic wrote:
                          Computer database was the plausible answer to be expected. But: Is there any official info about it? What is the name of database system?
                          It seems unlikely this information is available in a public source
                          Well, it is astonishing how few info about it is available. I noticed the
                          Not really. Most large corporations, for example, would tend not to
                          divulge information about their systems. Why would USCIS be any
                          different?
                          difference: Several years ago, when returning to USA, I was asked how long was I abroad. Last time - no questions at all.
                          Inconsistency at the POE is very common. The records are probably
                          available in any case should they want to look at them

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?


                            hey, why don't u make it even easier on yourself.

                            next time yu're at a
                            poe. Ask the officer if you can see his screen and play around with it.
                            In fact, if you write to the Government -- they'll send you the manual
                            for their computer systems, and a whole database table structure of what
                            they keep. That way you'll know exactly what they keep about you -- so
                            you can avoid their techniques. Wonderful huh? Surprised Terrorists
                            haven't learned this trick yet.

                            -= nav =-


                            --
                            Posted via http://britishexpats.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Do the INS knows how long Greencard holder is out of the US?


                              i am applying asylum GC, and it is still pending
                              i always go to canada
                              on weekend and stay there overnight(i live in seattle, so i can just
                              drive there)
                              my question is, is that gonna affect my GC process??


                              --
                              Posted via http://britishexpats.com

                              Comment

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