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Problem with college Utah

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  • Problem with college Utah

    I've been having a problem with the college I applied at. All is ready, just havn't chosen the courses yet. Not sure I want to go after the problem.

    I have been doing an application each year for the past couple of years, and I have always completed all the forms. The other morning a local director for financial aid left me a message that I had missed a form. So I called him back, and he told me about the form, it's a form asking about my criminal record.

    Funny thing is, I have done it before, however this one is asking questions the last one didn't. When I asked him about this, he said I will not be allowed to go to school if it's incomplete. I asked him why it is needed again, and he said, explicitly [b]"Because you might be a school shooter". I didn't digest that comment until I got to the college, and I videoed the contact. And when he found out I was recording he went nuts.

    The form is not a federal or state form, it is a school form. This I confirmed through the vice-chancellor of admission services.
    I fail to understand why that man felt the need to say the stuff he said, since the vice-chancellor took a laid back position on it.

    What disturbs me is that this man said this, and he is aware of my history of TBIs (3) and that I have been diagnosed with PTSD. I discussed this with a VA rep, a LCSW, and he said that is outright slander.

    I don't know what my options are. Can any one help me on this?
    I don't believe what I write, and neither should you. Information furnished to you is for debate purposes only, be sure to verify with your own research.
    Keep in mind that the information provided may not be worth any more than either a politician's promise or what you paid for it (nothing).
    I also may not have been either sane or sober when I wrote it down.
    Don't worry, be happy.

    http://www.rcfp.org/taping/index.html is a good resource!

  • #2
    Poor taste and stupid comments is not slander in a legal sense . ( False claims of criminal activity made to 3 parties or published for general view may be a totally different story ..but that not what you posted.)

    Id not make a choice about college on the acts of one person in financial aid ...
    I'm not sure your act to video the form was the smartest step if you wanted help from this person.

    I'm not sure what your past has to do with education and the limitations on federal aid are sort of focused on drug convictions.

    in some specific career fields a prior felony is a big problem as to practice in a particular degree field ..but that doesn't seem to be nature of your quest?

    The world is full of poorly designed forms and people who administer them....I suggest you pick your fights with more care and or tune a good bit of stuff out.

    I think it more relevant to sort thru if this particular educational institution and the program you select has any real world payback to whatever it is you have in mind .....some institutions are more focused on getting your federally guaranteed tuition and provide limited or no return at your end of equation ..and grant degrees that few recognize

    Comment


    • #3
      Honestly, I think you are your own worst enemy here. Criminal background checks are a reality of a modern campus. Sad, but true. By raising a fuss about it and filming when inappropriate and unprovoked, you ar not just raising a red flag, you are waving it in their faces. Honestly, here, your admission would be revoked. Period. No questions asked.
      I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

      Comment


      • #4
        Elle, the problem isn't the background check. The problem is telling me it's because I might be a school shooter. THAT I have a big problem with. If they want to do a background check, they can. And there really is nothing I can do about it. But Raster is right, it's a poor taste & stupid comment.

        As I told the VC, dude, I'll do it. But don't lie to me about why you need it. I'll do it as I take pride in keeping my nose clean after #2.
        I don't believe what I write, and neither should you. Information furnished to you is for debate purposes only, be sure to verify with your own research.
        Keep in mind that the information provided may not be worth any more than either a politician's promise or what you paid for it (nothing).
        I also may not have been either sane or sober when I wrote it down.
        Don't worry, be happy.

        http://www.rcfp.org/taping/index.html is a good resource!

        Comment


        • #5
          That is why they do it, in its most base form. They really don't care how many DUIs you have. They do care if one has a tendency toward violence or inappropriate use of weapons. It could have been phrased more elegantly, but the lack of dressing it up all pretty, isn't legally actionable. It is hardly personal. It was an off the cuff remark made after you questioned a what should be obvious and reasonable request. It happens. The more you protest and grumble and make an issue of it, the more the college is going to feel absolutely justified in denying you admission and saving themselves a lot of headaches down the line. Your personal medical situation has zero bearing on this. You aren't being singled out to have a background check. Trying to play the vet card or the disability card is not going to get you anywhere.
          I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've got to agree with others..if you walk around with "attitude" then the admission staff might be smart to deny you admissions ..and just not cite any reason .

            Now some institutions are pretty close to walk on ..so it might require other steps ???but why invite problems....just fill out a form .

            OK , long ago I did a fuss about a specific item on a secret clearance ..and I prevailed ....but I knew how to make the device work and they needed me more than I needed them..and besides I was right as to the issue....but you hold no such leverage....

            Comment


            • #7
              Moments ago I got off the phone with the vice chancellor that runs that part of admissions and I am disturbed by his response. He said they "hope" people are honest, and are truthful about it. He said they look into the cases to find out if the student will benefit from college or not. I'm left scratching my head. I'll say again as I told him over and over, I don't have a problem with the form, just being verbally abused in such a manner. He couldn't seem to grasp what I was talking about.

              Anyhow, he said just compile the case information and a description of what I've done with my life after I got out and letters of personal references.
              Soooo....
              I don't believe what I write, and neither should you. Information furnished to you is for debate purposes only, be sure to verify with your own research.
              Keep in mind that the information provided may not be worth any more than either a politician's promise or what you paid for it (nothing).
              I also may not have been either sane or sober when I wrote it down.
              Don't worry, be happy.

              http://www.rcfp.org/taping/index.html is a good resource!

              Comment


              • #8
                Probably because one inelegantly phrased comment is not abuse. It is blunt, but hardly abusive. It is also not slander. I'm not sure where you get the idea that a blunt explanation of why a college has a policy is in any way about you. Maybe if you were the only one asked to submit to a background check it might be something, depending upon the reason you were singled out. That you feel offended by the college's request and policy are frankly, not their problem. If you had no issue with the background check, you should have just complied rather than ranting to everyone who would listen, videotaping conversations and demanding an explanation.
                I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Speaking as the mom of 2 college students, maybe he was blunt because he couldn't believe you didn't understand why the form was needed? With all the school violence going on, he might have thought it was obvious.

                  I don't see why you felt the need to video tape anything. I have had countless discussions with college employees and never felt the need to video tape. That certainly sets an adversarial tone for your interactions with them.

                  Your VA rep was wrong, this wasn't slander. No one ever said you were a shooter just gave you the reason for the required information.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HRinMA View Post
                    Speaking as the mom of 2 college students, maybe he was blunt because he couldn't believe you didn't understand why the form was needed? With all the school violence going on, he might have thought it was obvious.

                    I don't see why you felt the need to video tape anything. I have had countless discussions with college employees and never felt the need to video tape. That certainly sets an adversarial tone for your interactions with them.

                    Your VA rep was wrong, this wasn't slander. No one ever said you were a shooter just gave you the reason for the required information.
                    I must be missing something here. You see, it's not a matter of IF they needed the form as much as the comment made. And in discussion with the vice chancellor yesterday (Tuesday) he confirmed it was said. He also commented on the inappropriateness of the man's statement. As for the video, why not? It's legal here. Did it aggravate the situation any? Well, if the school is going to video the students, the students have the same right (in Utah) to video them. As for the VA rep, there is slander and then there is slander. Here you can slander someone and not get sued, or you can slander someone and lose your shirt. It's all a matter of intent.
                    I don't believe what I write, and neither should you. Information furnished to you is for debate purposes only, be sure to verify with your own research.
                    Keep in mind that the information provided may not be worth any more than either a politician's promise or what you paid for it (nothing).
                    I also may not have been either sane or sober when I wrote it down.
                    Don't worry, be happy.

                    http://www.rcfp.org/taping/index.html is a good resource!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "That's an ugly shirt". Inappropriate, but doesn't leave you with any legal recourse because your feelings were hurt. Same with the blunt statement about why they require background checks. Just because someone higher up the food chain admits it was inappropriate, it does not mean you have any legal recourse. I'm not even sure what type of recourse you could possibly want. There is no monetary loss. You still have to comply with the policy you dislike. Really, it is past time to just move on.

                      I seriously doubt all employees at the college are walking around with video recorders to tape for their personal use, all interactions with students. Even if they did, two wrongs don't make a right and all that jazz. They get to establish the rules. You are applying to be allowed to attend there. As such, you have to follow their rules. Even if you have a legal right to do something, it doesn't mean they have to like it or that you should.
                      I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The recording paid off. I found out yesterday and confirmed today the man was fired. It's one of those indirect firings, "you take your two week vacation and then come back, finish up your immediate/nontransferable work for this semester, and leave, or else" is what I was told (informally).

                        But it is confirmed he left and it was not voluntary and it was because of this incident.

                        So I guess call it what you want.

                        So now I'm considering going back to college there. If not I have letters of acceptance from two other colleges as well, and I have financial aid lined up.
                        I don't believe what I write, and neither should you. Information furnished to you is for debate purposes only, be sure to verify with your own research.
                        Keep in mind that the information provided may not be worth any more than either a politician's promise or what you paid for it (nothing).
                        I also may not have been either sane or sober when I wrote it down.
                        Don't worry, be happy.

                        http://www.rcfp.org/taping/index.html is a good resource!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cactus jack View Post
                          So now I'm considering going back to college there. If not I have letters of acceptance from two other colleges as well, and I have financial aid lined up.
                          That's good to hear, CJ.
                          Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

                          Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If that was truly the only reason this guy was fired, that school has serious issues and double that if you as a potential student were told all of this. That should never happen and HE might have recourse if this is a public university (personnel actions taken are protected by law in most cases). It still leaves you zero recourse but I suppose you now have some degree of satisfaction in getting someone fired.
                            I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I get no satisfaction in someone losing their job. It's a dirty payback for me and for him. I am saddened that he lost his job, however I also made it clear to the college several items-
                              1. If he apologized the same day, or even within a day or so, without being told to, I'd have accepted it and let it drop after chewing him out. but he didn't, and he made it clear that even in losing his job that he won't.
                              2. I told the school I don't want money for this, I just want to go to school. Some form of compensation of course, for the headache this was, and that's it. I get the compensation and it's done, and I even said so in writing.

                              I'm not out to sue sue sue. To this day I have never sued. I have, however, been involved in suits before and I can tell you it's worse than shoveling sewage using a shovel with a hole in it.

                              At some point I will have to file a suit, that I know, because of other issues. I certainly dread such an event.
                              I don't believe what I write, and neither should you. Information furnished to you is for debate purposes only, be sure to verify with your own research.
                              Keep in mind that the information provided may not be worth any more than either a politician's promise or what you paid for it (nothing).
                              I also may not have been either sane or sober when I wrote it down.
                              Don't worry, be happy.

                              http://www.rcfp.org/taping/index.html is a good resource!

                              Comment

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