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Child Support ARREARS and death of non custodial parent Wisconsin

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ElleMD View Post
    Life insurance policies and other benefits with a specific, designated beneficiary fall outside the probate estate. Same with items designated in a will. Your issue seems to be that your fiance had a court ordered obligation to 1. pay child support, and 2. maintain a life insurance policy with his ex/estate/children as the beneficiaries. He did neither before his unfortunate passing. I can see where the ex spouse has a valid claim as your fiance apparently decided to ignore his court ordered obligations to his family and name you instead. Whether out of spite, or ignorance, it does not matter. If he did this to avoid complying with the court order, his choice of beneficiary very well may be invalidated. Courts are not fond of anyone disregarding their orders and preventing those already entitled to assets from obtaining them. Not to speak ill of the dead, but the guy sounds like a piece of work. "Fiancee" is not a legal distinction and carries no weight as far as an obligation to support. If you were a spouse or we were talking about another child outside the original marriage, it would be different. This is legally the same as if he made his next door neighbor or some guy on the street his beneficiary. I don't know how the WI courts will come down on this to be honest, but it is possible that she/the children/ the estate will prevail.

    If you were engaged, I would hope you had sat down and discussed his estate plan, financial obligations, and beneficiaries in the event of his demise. If you didn't get that opportunity before his passing, it is unfortunate.
    FYI he did pay child support and maintenance. Those obligations were over a couple years ago.
    The children are grown. So yes arrears go to estate.
    He was paying $1800/mo.
    His arrears were $500/no

    So not a deadbeat.

    Comment


    • #17
      If the courts required life insurance, then this could legally get interesting. Courts have huge latitude in issuing orders, especially if the original parties to the judgement look like they have been playing games.

      You keep mentioning arrearages, which are legally un-related to life insurance. Since you are not a party to the judgement, I do not see how arrearages can effect you. Is there a reason you keep bringing it up?

      Focus on the life insurance. If the original judgement REQUIRES the ex to maintain life insurance and he failed to do so, you need to talk to a local attorney NOW.
      "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
      Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DAW View Post
        If the courts required life insurance, then this could legally get interesting. Courts have huge latitude in issuing orders, especially if the original parties to the judgement look like they have been playing games.

        You keep mentioning arrearages, which are legally un-related to life insurance. Since you are not a party to the judgement, I do not see how arrearages can effect you. Is there a reason you keep bringing it up?

        Focus on the life insurance. If the original judgement REQUIRES the ex to maintain life insurance and he failed to do so, you need to talk to a local attorney NOW.
        Yes because the ex wife put a dispute on the insurance claim and now the insurance company wants us to reach an agreement????
        I've been on phone all morning with attorneys. Waiting for calls back.
        I just found out Friday the insurance company did this. I was told several times it goes to the estate.
        What a mess. Doing what I can.

        Comment


        • #19
          See if you can find the original child support judgement and/or court order(s). See if life insurance is mentioned. Your attorney needs to see those documents. Also ask the life insurance company EXACTLY who the beneficiary is. In your past posts sometimes you say it is you and sometimes you say it is the Estate. Legally these are two very different things. These are the two points your lawyer needs to clear up.

          Arrearages are controlled by a federal law called CCPA. Under that law, you are not involved. Technically even a local judge cannot override this law, although I have seen them try to. However if the life insurance benefits goes to the Estate, then a local judge can (maybe) dip into that. Disbursement of estates is a function of state law.
          "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
          Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by DAW View Post
            See if you can find the original child support judgement and/or court order(s). See if life insurance is mentioned. Your attorney needs to see those documents. Also ask the life insurance company EXACTLY who the beneficiary is. In your past posts sometimes you say it is you and sometimes you say it is the Estate. Legally these are two very different things. These are the two points your lawyer needs to clear up.

            Arrearages are controlled by a federal law called CCPA. Under that law, you are not involved. Technically even a local judge cannot override this law, although I have seen them try to. However if the life insurance benefits goes to the Estate, then a local judge can (maybe) dip into that. Disbursement of estates is a function of state law.
            I'm sorry I guess I wasn't clear. I received documents that I am the legal beneficiary of both policies from the insurance company. I signed my claim form and sent in death certificate.

            Then ex wife put claim on it because in the divorce decree it states he should maintain any work insurance provided to him. When there is an obligation for support/alimony.

            Being that she is remarried and the kids are all grown, it was arrears he was paying on only.
            I was told arrears would go to estate.

            But insurance company decided not to pay me and wants her and I to come to an agreement.

            My attorney is obtaining the life insurance policy today....he has a copy of divorce decree. Just exhausted.

            Comment


            • #21
              The devil is in the details. If the decree indicates that he was to maintain a life insurance policy payable to the children or ex, and he failed to do so, you could have a problem. It is not at all uncommon to have such a provision in a divorce decree or custody order. It makes sense, if the children/spouse were still entitled to support from him, they could not be cut off in the event of his death. He would have to ensure that there was an insurance policy to "pay in his place". As you have no legal claim to any part of his estate, his prior financial obligation may very well take precedence. Of course the insurance company would prefer you settle this outside of court; litigation is expensive and they are just innocent bystanders.
              I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ElleMD View Post
                The devil is in the details. If the decree indicates that he was to maintain a life insurance policy payable to the children or ex, and he failed to do so, you could have a problem. It is not at all uncommon to have such a provision in a divorce decree or custody order. It makes sense, if the children/spouse were still entitled to support from him, they could not be cut off in the event of his death. He would have to ensure that there was an insurance policy to "pay in his place". As you have no legal claim to any part of his estate, his prior financial obligation may very well take precedence. Of course the insurance company would prefer you settle this outside of court; litigation is expensive and they are just innocent bystanders.
                No current child support or alimony. Alimony done in 2008. Children age of majority. Arrears not in divorce decree. New insurance as of 2016. Arrears are a debt that goes to estate they must put a claim on.......per attorney. Ty

                Comment


                • #23
                  Arrears just means he didn't pay it when he should have and a debt built up. "He" still owes the child support, even if the children are now grown. While he wasn't paying, or wasn't paying the amount due, the other parent had to pick up the slack or the kids missed out on things.
                  I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ElleMD View Post
                    Arrears just means he didn't pay it when he should have and a debt built up. "He" still owes the child support, even if the children are now grown. While he wasn't paying, or wasn't paying the amount due, the other parent had to pick up the slack or the kids missed out on things.
                    I know what arrears are. They still go to the estate as a claimed debt.
                    Sometimes life happens. You lose a job, fall I'll etc.
                    Ppl forget the good parts, like a children living with him/us for yrs when mother didn't want to deal.
                    Unrelated, but not all men who fall into arrears don't care. He loved his children. But once you fall behind it is almost impossible to catch up, when you're paying $1800/mo.
                    And the interest is almost half of the arrears.
                    Have a great day!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      For the sake of others who might read this, if the parent paying support does have a change in circumstances, they need to file for a modification to the support order. Loss of a job or change in physical custody would both be good reasons to do this with a high chance of being granted. Otherwise, a court order is a court order and the amount due is the same.
                      I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ElleMD View Post
                        For the sake of others who might read this, if the parent paying support does have a change in circumstances, they need to file for a modification to the support order. Loss of a job or change in physical custody would both be good reasons to do this with a high chance of being granted. Otherwise, a court order is a court order and the amount due is the same.
                        Absolutely correct. Anytime you lose a job you can easily obtain paperwork from the court to modify your payments so you don't fall behind. You don't need a lawyer for this.
                        Had I known him earlier in life, I would have helped him. He had no one here. All his family in Boston, he stayed in WI for his children.
                        I get alot of dad's just blow off their kids and responsibilities, but he was one of the few that didn't. His arrears interest are more than the arrears themselves. Some States don't even have interest on arrears.
                        He never had a chance. Looking at the divorce decree and the amount of maintenance and CS, after his job being downsized, it was all down hill from there. A big fat whole. Bit for the 7 yrs we were together he paid, what happened prior to that was not something he talked about too much.
                        In 2012 I did force him to modify because the eldest graduated and the middle child was living with us. It was granted as it should have been. But, mother pulled daughter out of our home and told kids he screwed her over.
                        He never went back to modify after the 2 other children graduated because he didn't want his kids to hate him.
                        But regardless, modify at all times you need to. It is your right. Life is not always an easy ride.

                        Comment

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