is this fair?

[somebody]

DD and me on the phone:

DD: YEAYEAYEAYEAYEA
SIS-IN-LAW (background): STOP DOING THAT!
STBX(?): DD doesn't want to talk anymore
ME: What happend? Why did SIL say "STOP DOING THAT"
STBX: Why do you always say I'm a bad mother, I'm taking good care of her
ME: I just wanted to know what was going on with her
STBX: Well if you wanted to know, YOU SHOULD BE HERE!
<CLICK>
I call back
SIL: She'll talk to you later
ME: I just want to talk to her, she's a big girl, she can tell me herself
SIL: She'll talk to you later
ME: Let mer come on the phone
SIL: I'm hanging up now
ME: SIL, you don't want to get in the middle of this. I don't want to get
mad at you
<CLICK>

Maybe she forgot that two weeks ago she kicked me out? Someone shoot me
please.

[Jennifer]

is this fair?

"somebody" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

<CLICK> I call back SIL: She'll talk to you later ME: I just want to talk to her, she's a big girl, she can tell me herself SIL: She'll talk to you later ME: Let mer come on the phone SIL: I'm hanging up now ME: SIL, you don't want to get in the middle of this. I don't want to get mad at you <CLICK> Maybe she forgot that two weeks ago she kicked me out? Someone shoot me please.

Man, it hurts like hell just reading that. Shades of, well, the way it used
to be with DH and his ex-GF (SD's biological mother). She was *constantly*
hanging up on him, and when he'd call back, someone would play interference
and *refuse* to allow DH to communicate with his daughter. It sucked beyond
all belief, to the point where it still makes me sick to my stomach (and
this was probably 14 years ago).

The only thing that saved us was the presence of clear, extensive legal
guidelines requiring SD's mother to share custody with DH on a 50/50 basis
(short story is BM brought a custody case assuming she'd win and run off
with their daughter, only she lost and the rest is thankfully history).
Without the court dictates, BM would have continued alienating us & pushing
DH as far away from his daughter as humanly possible.

Your SIL probably thinks she's "helping" by "protecting" (her?) sister. As
someone said in this newsgroup not too long ago,
coughcoughcoughBULL****cough. I have no patience with any interference
between a father and his daughter (that's my particular beef, since I
married a man with a little girl).

How's the counseling coming along? I won't shoot you, but in my opinion,
it's time to get yourself some excellent legal counsel and move forward,
regardless of what your wife wants at the moment. Your daughter doesn't
deserve to be denied access to you. You will be ESSENTIAL in her life.

Jennifer

[somebody]

is this fair?

Jennifer in Maryland wrote:

Man, it hurts like hell just reading that. Shades of, well, the way it used to be with DH and his ex-GF (SD's biological mother). She was *constantly* hanging up on him, and when he'd call back, someone would play interference and *refuse* to allow DH to communicate with his daughter. It sucked beyond all belief, to the point where it still makes me sick to my stomach (and this was probably 14 years ago).

Whoops. I *really* didn't make myself clear. When I called back, I wanted to
talk to my wife because my daughter always goes away by saying she doesn't
want to talk anymore. Thats part of how she handles missing me. Thats sort
of genetic. Doh. I couldn't imagine the hatred I would feel if my SIL tried
to deny me access to my daughter.

The only thing that saved us was the presence of clear, extensive legal guidelines requiring SD's mother to share custody with DH on a 50/50 basis (short story is BM brought a custody case assuming she'd win and run off with their daughter, only she lost and the rest is thankfully history). Without the court dictates, BM would have continued alienating us & pushing DH as far away from his daughter as humanly possible.

No one has ever denied me access to my daughter, and no one ever will try
such a stupid thing because once I am there, I will end up being the
primary caregiver due to my wife's chosen profession. Currently, my MIL
(whose second husband is VERY, VERY sick) is the lucky winner (which pisses
me off to no end because of her situation). Once I am in this position, I
can easily get full custody. Of course, I'm still holding out for
reconciliation which is another reason I am going there. I want to give my
daughter a loving family, sort of like what I had, but more love. I have
convinced the wife to drop her legal counsel and she is not filing any
papers. Its obvious she trusts me because I have always been very
trustworthy with her ;-) (that was not a naughty wink)

Your SIL probably thinks she's "helping" by "protecting" (her?) sister. As someone said in this newsgroup not too long ago, coughcoughcoughBULL****cough. I have no patience with any interference between a father and his daughter (that's my particular beef, since I married a man with a little girl).

I would kill someone. This is probably evidence isn't it? Great, suspect
#1... again ;-)

How's the counseling coming along? I won't shoot you, but in my opinion, it's time to get yourself some excellent legal counsel and move forward, regardless of what your wife wants at the moment. Your daughter doesn't deserve to be denied access to you. You will be ESSENTIAL in her life.

As for counseling, I have taken up drag racing almost nightly. That seems to
pick me up. But my wife thinks that its probably not safe. I don't agree.
But anyway, the sooner I get outta here, the sooner I'll stop eh? The way I
figure it is like this: if I stay here, I will only see my daughter once or
twice a year, as i have said, that ain't enough for me. My only other
option is to move and make a life there. If I was to fight and a) either
win full custody or b) somehow magically legally force my wife to move
here, in either case, my daughter's parents would have animosity between
them. I am making this sacrifice for her future and piece of mind. I've
seen (from my childhood friends), what happens when divorced parents hate
each other. It BLOWS. So anyone who says I'm stupid for not fighting can
just SUCK IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

God **** racing makes me hyper!

[Jack C Lipton]

is this fair?

somebody wrote:

DD and me on the phone: DD: YEAYEAYEAYEAYEA SIS-IN-LAW (background): STOP DOING THAT! STBX(?): DD doesn't want to talk anymore ME: What happend? Why did SIL say "STOP DOING THAT" STBX: Why do you always say I'm a bad mother, I'm taking good care of her ME: I just wanted to know what was going on with her STBX: Well if you wanted to know, YOU SHOULD BE HERE!<CLICK> I call back SIL: She'll talk to you later ME: I just want to talk to her, she's a big girl, she can tell me herself SIL: She'll talk to you later ME: Let mer come on the phone SIL: I'm hanging up now ME: SIL, you don't want to get in the middle of this. I don't want to get mad at you<CLICK> Maybe she forgot that two weeks ago she kicked me out?

Realize that doing this places a bigger wedge between
and tries to ensure that you "maintain your distance".

One wonders why she's so sensitive and thinks you're
trying to imply the "bad mother" meaning.

Of course why her sister is there is... confusing.

Someone shoot me please.

Ask your STBX or S-I-L. Actually, maybe the S-I-L
might be a bit more merciful and go for the back of
your cranium instead of your 2nd head.

--
Jack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/
Leadership deals with maximizing gains;
Management is all about minimizing losses.
Too much of either is death. - me

[shinypenny]

is this fair?

somebody <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

DD and me on the phone: DD: YEAYEAYEAYEAYEA SIS-IN-LAW (background): STOP DOING THAT! STBX(?): DD doesn't want to talk anymore ME: What happend? Why did SIL say "STOP DOING THAT" STBX: Why do you always say I'm a bad mother, I'm taking good care of her

Technically speaking, your wife *is* a bad mother. She took your DD
and moved far away from you, her father. Whether you rekindle the
marriage or not, your wife needs to grow up and face her
responsibility to carve out the best co-parenting relationship she can
with you. That's what good mothers do.

Following your story previously, I understand you and your wife were
rather young when you got married and started a family. I can
understand how your wife may feel she wants to regress and recapture
those single years she missed. She can do that, and you can do that.
Perhaps you can do it together (I hope so). But, regardless, she needs
to find a way to balance all that with her responsibility as a mother,
which is not going to go away, even if the marriage goes away.

ME: I just wanted to know what was going on with her STBX: Well if you wanted to know, YOU SHOULD BE HERE! <CLICK>

Bizarre. She left you, she took your DD away from you. Now she's
berating *you* for not being there? Either she's got a serious case of
borderline personality disorder ("I hate you, don't leave me") or
she's projecting her own guilt on to you because it's easier to accuse
you not her for being the one who abandoned DD and created this
nightmare. IOW, it's too difficult for her to face her own screw-ups,
so she's blaming you for them.

Frankly, your wife needs a kick in the pants. If she hadn't hung up on
you, and it were me, I'd have replied, "No, *you* should be HERE. You
took DD and left. Take responsibility for that. I am only doing the
best I can to maintain a long distance relationship with my daugther.
It wouldn't be long distance if you hadn't taken her away from me. The
future of our marriage and our relationship as co-parents are two
entirely separate issues. I understand you need time to figure out
what you want to do about the marriage, but there's nothing to figure
out about the co-parent relationship. I'm always going to be DD's
father, and it is best for DD if we keep that in mind and make the
best of it. If you do not want to move back here, but want me to move
there instead, I will strongly consider it for my DD's sake. We can
work on the marriage once I'm there, or not. But we *will* work on the
co-parent relationship. We have to."

I call back SIL: She'll talk to you later ME: I just want to talk to her, she's a big girl, she can tell me herself SIL: She'll talk to you later ME: Let mer come on the phone SIL: I'm hanging up now ME: SIL, you don't want to get in the middle of this. I don't want to get mad at you <CLICK> Maybe she forgot that two weeks ago she kicked me out? Someone shoot me please.

Sounds like a meddling SIL. You can use the same coparent argument
with her. "No matter what you think about me as the husband to your
sister, you have no choice at all when it comes to me as the father of
your neice. So learn to live with it and, if you care anything about
your neice's welfare, stop interfering."

jen

[The Watsons]

is this fair?


"somebody" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
.. So anyone who says I'm stupid for not fighting can

just SUCK IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Would you like one of us that've BTDT to outline for you exactly what will
happen to you in court if she files for divorce sometime down the road,
you've been a long distance father for an extended period of time engaged in
an unsafe hobby, you haven't filed for any legal rights rights of
visitation/custody to your daughter, and you walk into court expecting to
win any form of custody?

Jess

[The Watsons]

is this fair?


"shinypenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c8cb5319.0410110533.766c[email protected] om...

Frankly, your wife needs a kick in the pants. If she hadn't hung up on you, and it were me, I'd have replied, "No, *you* should be HERE. You took DD and left. Take responsibility for that. I am only doing the best I can to maintain a long distance relationship with my daugther. It wouldn't be long distance if you hadn't taken her away from me.

In the parenting relationship, whoever busted the dolly first is irrelevant.
DD isn't going to care that her mother moved, she's only going to care that
her father isn't there. The only thing pointing out who moved first and
telling someone to take responsibility is going to accomplish is to put
someone on the defensive and totally trash whatever cooperative ability
might be there.

The future of our marriage and our relationship as co-parents are two entirely separate issues. I understand you need time to figure out what you want to do about the marriage, but there's nothing to figure out about the co-parent relationship. I'm always going to be DD's father, and it is best for DD if we keep that in mind and make the best of it. If you do not want to move back here, but want me to move there instead, I will strongly consider it for my DD's sake. We can work on the marriage once I'm there, or not. But we *will* work on the co-parent relationship. We have to."

That's unnecessary too-if his DD is there and he wants to be near her, he
can start the process himself without wasting his time asking his ex if she
wants him there (and I could get cynical here, but I won't).

Sounds like a meddling SIL. You can use the same coparent argument with her. "No matter what you think about me as the husband to your sister, you have no choice at all when it comes to me as the father of your neice. So learn to live with it and, if you care anything about your neice's welfare, stop interfering."

He needs to not waste his breath-he won't get past the first sentence. He
needs to deal with his wife/stbx or whatever she is these days and let her
handle her sister.

Jess

[somebody]

is this fair?

The Watsons wrote:

Would you like one of us that've BTDT to outline for you exactly what will happen to you in court if she files for divorce sometime down the road, you've been a long distance father for an extended period of time engaged in an unsafe hobby, you haven't filed for any legal rights rights of visitation/custody to your daughter, and you walk into court expecting to win any form of custody?

This is why I'm moving there, so that I'm not long distance anymore. More
than that, I don't know what I'm doing.

[somebody]

is this fair?

The Watsons wrote:

In the parenting relationship, whoever busted the dolly first is irrelevant. DD isn't going to care that her mother moved, she's only going to care that her father isn't there. The only thing pointing out who moved first and telling someone to take responsibility is going to accomplish is to put someone on the defensive and totally trash whatever cooperative ability might be there.

Tell me about it. Both DD and STBX/WIFE blame me for not being there
already. And if I bring up whose fault it really is that I'm not there...
Well, thats just gonna f*ck things up. So I gotta keep my mouth shut and
not think about it.

That's unnecessary too-if his DD is there and he wants to be near her, he can start the process himself without wasting his time asking his ex if she wants him there (and I could get cynical here, but I won't).

She does... She doesn't... She does... She doesn't...

He needs to not waste his breath-he won't get past the first sentence. He needs to deal with his wife/stbx or whatever she is these days and let her handle her sister.

Yup. Agree with you fully.

Sigh... What can I do? I'm 23 and I feel 50.

[somebody]

is this fair?

Jack C Lipton wrote:

Realize that doing this places a bigger wedge between and tries to ensure that you "maintain your distance". One wonders why she's so sensitive and thinks you're trying to imply the "bad mother" meaning.

Everyone in my family used to call her a bad mother but I never did and I
used to stick up for her sometimes.

Of course why her sister is there is... confusing.

Thats nothing, one time I was upset and she told her sister to call 911. I
was just crying.

Someone shoot me please. Ask your STBX or S-I-L. Actually, maybe the S-I-L might be a bit more merciful and go for the back of your cranium instead of your 2nd head.

SIL is an immature little brat. I don't blame her. She doesn't understand
what to do. Her family used to like me. Now? I've done nothing to them or
in front of them and they treat me like ****.

[Jennifer]

is this fair?

"somebody" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

Jennifer in Maryland wrote:
I couldn't imagine the hatred I would feel if my SIL tried to deny me access to my daughter.
No one has ever denied me access to my daughter, and no one ever will try such a stupid thing because once I am there, I will end up being the primary caregiver due to my wife's chosen profession.

Please, please, please don't count on this. I don't want to be overly
negative, but you need to know that it would *not* be a slam dunk to obtain
custody/primary caregiver status, esp. since you're the father, and 23 to
boot.

As for counseling, I have taken up drag racing almost nightly. That seems

to

pick me up. But my wife thinks that its probably not safe. I don't agree.

Would the courts? Would your drag racing assist your wife in portraying you
as reckless and thrillseeking? Don't get me wrong, it sounds like fun...but
if you ever did need to consider petitioning for primary custody, something
as seemingly harmless as a dad going out drag racing can become a big
sticking point. It sucks, but there you are.

I just want to make it clear that if you anticipate, in any way, wanting to
obtain custody, you want to show clear consideration and research into
things like where your daughter will live, who will regularly be there for
her, what doctors she'll go to, what schools she'll attend while in your
care, what her room will be like, everything.

figure it is like this: if I stay here, I will only see my daughter once

or

twice a year, as i have said, that ain't enough for me. My only other option is to move and make a life there. If I was to fight and a) either win full custody or b) somehow magically legally force my wife to move here, in either case, my daughter's parents would have animosity between them. I am making this sacrifice for her future and piece of mind. I've seen (from my childhood friends), what happens when divorced parents hate each other. It BLOWS. So anyone who says I'm stupid for not fighting can just SUCK IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thing is, you might not be able to prevent the animosity, and yes, it blows.
Still, you cannot control how your wife chooses to behave, and she very
possibly doesn't have the same goals you have.

Jennifer

[Jennifer]

is this fair?

"somebody" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

The Watsons wrote:

Would you like one of us that've BTDT to outline for you exactly what

will

happen to you in court if she files for divorce sometime down the road, you've been a long distance father for an extended period of time

engaged

in an unsafe hobby, you haven't filed for any legal rights rights of visitation/custody to your daughter, and you walk into court expecting

to

win any form of custody? This is why I'm moving there, so that I'm not long distance anymore. More than that, I don't know what I'm doing.

Then listen. Jess said it much more clearly than I just did in another
post.

Begin the move. Ask your wife for regular access to your daughter. If she
agrees, keep careful, detailed, extensive notes outlining every day you have
the care of your daughter. You'll need those stats later on if your wife
denies you took as much care of your daughter as you actually did. If she
refuses or restricts your visitation, file for visitation rights.

Take a look at the schools around where your wife has moved. Know your
daughter's pediatrician. Introduce yourself to her day care provider. Be
sure you have equal access to all records and paperwork, and keep on top of
information coming from professionals about your daughter.

Know how to cook healthy meals. Learn how to tend a daughter's hair.
Maintain a safe, comfortable room or area for your daughter in your new
home. Have clothes on hand.

Get to know your neighbors. Engage with your daughter in neighborhood
activities and playgroups. Learn about your new community. Consider
enrolling your daughter in something that might interest her (gymnastics,
ballet, soccer, swimming).

The hurdles a man has to clear to prove he is an adequate parent are too
high. I still remember the "surprise" in BM's attorney's voice as she
questioned DH twice, "You *cook*??"

Jennifer

[The Watsons]

is this fair?


"Jennifer in Maryland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

The hurdles a man has to clear to prove he is an adequate parent are too high. I still remember the "surprise" in BM's attorney's voice as she questioned DH twice, "You *cook*??"

*snickers*

Jess

[Emma Anne]

is this fair?

somebody <[email protected]> wrote:

Whoops. I *really* didn't make myself clear. When I called back, I wanted to talk to my wife

Why, though? It doesn't seem like there was much chance of any kind of
productive conversation right then.

[somebody]

is this fair?

Emma Anne wrote:

somebody <[email protected]> wrote:

Whoops. I *really* didn't make myself clear. When I called back, I wanted to talk to my wife

Why, though? It doesn't seem like there was much chance of any kind of productive conversation right then.

Its a bad habit of mine. I just didn't understand wth I did or said.