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  • #61
    Safety in Relationships

    [email protected] (Caren) writes:
    I have had this reaction to different posters in the past. I actually had it with Doug a long time ago and realized that Doug has some (some, I say!) similarities. His intellect often overwhelms me (Doug and husband) due to my propensity to focus on feelings.
    No intellect here. I just think tofu is overrated!

    Comment


    • #62
      Safety in Relationships

      On 5 Jul 2004 08:05:05 -0700, Caren
      <[email protected]> wrote:
      "Tai" <[email protected]com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
      "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...
      Oh Tai, I have thought about it on several occassions. But I'm too worried about losing my license to practice :-) Of course I'm also peace loving and non violent so I'd never harm a flea.
      )
      YOu are right about control. I think that I"m going to have him read this and the other thread that I recently started just so that he can see opinions of others. He'll probably relate most to Tony though...and that is not a good thing!
      Well, since you brought it up..... I have been quite surprised sometimes by the way you react to Tony, on occasions you've appeared to me to have been seeking to rile him and, I've thought, got in a few pokes first. So, your mentioning that you see similarities between him and your husband actually answers a few questions for me!
      Tai
      Very observant my dear :-)
      Now if you could only see those same qualities you dislike, in yourself.
      Yes, I do get my feathers ruffled by Tony at times. He seems stoic (like my husband), does not like to admit that he is wrong, thinks that his way of thinking is "the" way of thinking-ewwwww. Too many similarities thus far. My husband is pro choice though and I can't think of any circumstance where he'd turn his back on our daughter. Next time that I post to Tony, I'm going to compare it to a dialogue between my husband and I.
      LOL!!! You have changed my refusing to financially support a girl who's
      made a bad choice and affected other people to "turning my back on her".

      Michael Moore could take some lessons from you.

      -Tony

      --
      "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
      to fertilize your lawn!"
      Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
      Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

      Comment


      • #63
        Safety in Relationships

        Tony Miller <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
        On 5 Jul 2004 08:05:05 -0700, Caren <[email protected]> wrote:
        "Tai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
        "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om... > Oh Tai, I have thought about it on several occassions. But I'm too > worried about losing my license to practice :-) Of course I'm also > peace loving and non violent so I'd never harm a flea.
        ) > YOu are right about control. I think that I"m going to have him read > this and the other thread that I recently started just so that he can > see opinions of others. He'll probably relate most to Tony > though...and that is not a good thing! Well, since you brought it up..... I have been quite surprised sometimes by the way you react to Tony, on occasions you've appeared to me to have been seeking to rile him and, I've thought, got in a few pokes first. So, your mentioning that you see similarities between him and your husband actually answers a few questions for me! > Tai Very observant my dear :-)
        Now if you could only see those same qualities you dislike, in yourself.
        Yes, I do get my feathers ruffled by Tony at times. He seems stoic (like my husband), does not like to admit that he is wrong, thinks that his way of thinking is "the" way of thinking-ewwwww. Too many similarities thus far. My husband is pro choice though and I can't think of any circumstance where he'd turn his back on our daughter. Next time that I post to Tony, I'm going to compare it to a dialogue between my husband and I.
        LOL!!! You have changed my refusing to financially support a girl who's made a bad choice and affected other people to "turning my back on her". Michael Moore could take some lessons from you. -Tony
        One of the fundamental differences between you and I is that I don't
        have a problem admitting my weak spots and failings. I also don't
        assume to know what decisions other people should be making.

        Did you read what Kerry said the other day? He does not condone
        abortion, he is a religious man who attends church weekly and believes
        that life starts at conception. He also said that he has no right to
        make the decision (for abortion) to others who don't have the same
        beliefs that he has.

        I don't ask you to believe what I believe as far as abortion. Just
        trust me to make the right decision. After all...if you trust me to
        be a parent, certainly you have to trust me to make a choice.

        Comment


        • #64
          Safety in Relationships

          "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
          news:[email protected] om...
          Tony Miller <[email protected]> wrote in message
          news:<[email protected]>...
          On 5 Jul 2004 08:05:05 -0700, Caren <[email protected]> wrote:
          "Tai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
          news:<[email protected]>...
          > "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message> news:[email protected] om...>> > Oh Tai, I have thought about it on several occassions. But I'm too> > worried about losing my license to practice :-) Of course I'm also> > peace loving and non violent so I'd never harm a flea.
          > )> > YOu are right about control. I think that I"m going to have him
          read
          > > this and the other thread that I recently started just so that he
          can
          > > see opinions of others. He'll probably relate most to Tony> > though...and that is not a good thing!>> Well, since you brought it up.....>> I have been quite surprised sometimes by the way you react to Tony,
          on
          > occasions you've appeared to me to have been seeking to rile him and,
          I've
          > thought, got in a few pokes first. So, your mentioning that you see> similarities between him and your husband actually answers a few
          questions
          > for me! >> Tai Very observant my dear :-) Now if you could only see those same qualities you dislike, in yourself.
          Yes, I do get my feathers ruffled by Tony at times. He seems stoic (like my husband), does not like to admit that he is wrong, thinks that his way of thinking is "the" way of thinking-ewwwww. Too many similarities thus far. My husband is pro choice though and I can't think of any circumstance where he'd turn his back on our daughter. Next time that I post to Tony, I'm going to compare it to a dialogue between my husband and I.
          LOL!!! You have changed my refusing to financially support a girl who's made a bad choice and affected other people to "turning my back on her". Michael Moore could take some lessons from you. -Tony One of the fundamental differences between you and I is that I don't have a problem admitting my weak spots and failings. I also don't assume to know what decisions other people should be making. Did you read what Kerry said the other day? He does not condone abortion, he is a religious man who attends church weekly and believes that life starts at conception. He also said that he has no right to make the decision (for abortion) to others who don't have the same beliefs that he has. I don't ask you to believe what I believe as far as abortion. Just trust me to make the right decision. After all...if you trust me to be a parent, certainly you have to trust me to make a choice.
          Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want to
          financially support her.


          Comment


          • #65
            Safety in Relationships

            On 6 Jul 2004 09:25:14 -0700, Caren
            <[email protected]> wrote:
            Tony Miller <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
            On 5 Jul 2004 08:05:05 -0700, Caren <[email protected]> wrote:
            "Tai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...> "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message> news:[email protected] om...>> > Oh Tai, I have thought about it on several occassions. But I'm too> > worried about losing my license to practice :-) Of course I'm also> > peace loving and non violent so I'd never harm a flea.> )> > YOu are right about control. I think that I"m going to have him read> > this and the other thread that I recently started just so that he can> > see opinions of others. He'll probably relate most to Tony> > though...and that is not a good thing!>> Well, since you brought it up.....>> I have been quite surprised sometimes by the way you react to Tony, on> occasions you've appeared to me to have been seeking to rile him and, I've> thought, got in a few pokes first. So, your mentioning that you see> similarities between him and your husband actually answers a few questions> for me! >> Tai Very observant my dear :-)
            Now if you could only see those same qualities you dislike, in yourself.
            Yes, I do get my feathers ruffled by Tony at times. He seems stoic (like my husband), does not like to admit that he is wrong, thinks that his way of thinking is "the" way of thinking-ewwwww. Too many similarities thus far. My husband is pro choice though and I can't think of any circumstance where he'd turn his back on our daughter. Next time that I post to Tony, I'm going to compare it to a dialogue between my husband and I.
            LOL!!! You have changed my refusing to financially support a girl who's made a bad choice and affected other people to "turning my back on her". Michael Moore could take some lessons from you. -Tony
            One of the fundamental differences between you and I is that I don't have a problem admitting my weak spots and failings. I also don't assume to know what decisions other people should be making.
            I told you a decision *I* would make and you jumped all over it. What is
            this non-sequitur?
            Did you read what Kerry said the other day? He does not condone abortion, he is a religious man who attends church weekly and believes that life starts at conception. He also said that he has no right to make the decision (for abortion) to others who don't have the same beliefs that he has.
            I say that is bull****. He's talking out both sides of his mouth. The
            Catholic Church believes that life begins at conception, and that abortion
            is one of the most fundamentally evil things a person can do.

            If he believes as the Church does that life begins at conception, he
            should understand that at conception the unborn baby should be a citizen
            with the right to life all of us are granted.

            For crying out loud, this character voted against the Partial Birth
            Abortion ban!!!

            So I say "right on!" to the Bishops who want to deny Kerry communion.
            Here is a fellow who receives communion in Protestant churches against
            specific Church teaching to the contrary. He is not Catholic, he should
            not be albe to behave for the cameras as if he is.
            I don't ask you to believe what I believe as far as abortion. Just trust me to make the right decision. After all...if you trust me to be a parent, certainly you have to trust me to make a choice.
            You can do what you want WRT parenting your child. But as far as choosing
            to kill your progeny, I don't believe anyone has that choice validly.

            -Tony

            --
            "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
            to fertilize your lawn!"
            Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
            Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

            Comment


            • #66
              Safety in Relationships

              Tony Miller <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
              On 6 Jul 2004 09:25:14 -0700, Caren <[email protected]> wrote:
              Tony Miller <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
              On 5 Jul 2004 08:05:05 -0700, Caren <[email protected]> wrote: > "Tai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>... >> "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message >> news:[email protected] om... >> >> > Oh Tai, I have thought about it on several occassions. But I'm too >> > worried about losing my license to practice :-) Of course I'm also >> > peace loving and non violent so I'd never harm a flea.
              >> ) >> > YOu are right about control. I think that I"m going to have him read >> > this and the other thread that I recently started just so that he can >> > see opinions of others. He'll probably relate most to Tony >> > though...and that is not a good thing! >> >> Well, since you brought it up..... >> >> I have been quite surprised sometimes by the way you react to Tony, on >> occasions you've appeared to me to have been seeking to rile him and, I've >> thought, got in a few pokes first. So, your mentioning that you see >> similarities between him and your husband actually answers a few questions >> for me! >>> Tai > > > Very observant my dear :-) Now if you could only see those same qualities you dislike, in yourself. > Yes, I do get my feathers ruffled by Tony at times. He seems stoic > (like my husband), does not like to admit that he is wrong, thinks > that his way of thinking is "the" way of thinking-ewwwww. Too many > similarities thus far. My husband is pro choice though and I can't > think of any circumstance where he'd turn his back on our daughter. > Next time that I post to Tony, I'm going to compare it to a dialogue > between my husband and I. LOL!!! You have changed my refusing to financially support a girl who's made a bad choice and affected other people to "turning my back on her". Michael Moore could take some lessons from you. -Tony One of the fundamental differences between you and I is that I don't have a problem admitting my weak spots and failings. I also don't assume to know what decisions other people should be making.
              I told you a decision *I* would make and you jumped all over it. What is this non-sequitur?
              Did you read what Kerry said the other day? He does not condone abortion, he is a religious man who attends church weekly and believes that life starts at conception. He also said that he has no right to make the decision (for abortion) to others who don't have the same beliefs that he has.
              I say that is bull****. He's talking out both sides of his mouth. The Catholic Church believes that life begins at conception, and that abortion is one of the most fundamentally evil things a person can do. If he believes as the Church does that life begins at conception, he should understand that at conception the unborn baby should be a citizen with the right to life all of us are granted. For crying out loud, this character voted against the Partial Birth Abortion ban!!! So I say "right on!" to the Bishops who want to deny Kerry communion. Here is a fellow who receives communion in Protestant churches against specific Church teaching to the contrary. He is not Catholic, he should not be albe to behave for the cameras as if he is.
              I don't ask you to believe what I believe as far as abortion. Just trust me to make the right decision. After all...if you trust me to be a parent, certainly you have to trust me to make a choice.
              You can do what you want WRT parenting your child. But as far as choosing to kill your progeny, I don't believe anyone has that choice validly. -Tony
              In my opinion, it would be silly to continue speaking on this subject with you.

              Comment


              • #67
                Safety in Relationships

                "JWB" <[email protected] actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
                "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...
                Tony Miller <[email protected]> wrote in message
                news:<[email protected]>...
                On 5 Jul 2004 08:05:05 -0700, Caren <[email protected]> wrote: > "Tai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                news:<[email protected]>...
                >> "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message >> news:[email protected] om... >> >> > Oh Tai, I have thought about it on several occassions. But I'm too >> > worried about losing my license to practice :-) Of course I'm also >> > peace loving and non violent so I'd never harm a flea. >> ) >> > YOu are right about control. I think that I"m going to have him
                read
                >> > this and the other thread that I recently started just so that he
                can
                >> > see opinions of others. He'll probably relate most to Tony >> > though...and that is not a good thing! >> >> Well, since you brought it up..... >> >> I have been quite surprised sometimes by the way you react to Tony,
                on
                >> occasions you've appeared to me to have been seeking to rile him and,
                I've
                >> thought, got in a few pokes first. So, your mentioning that you see >> similarities between him and your husband actually answers a few
                questions
                >> for me! >>> Tai > > > Very observant my dear :-) Now if you could only see those same qualities you dislike, in yourself. > Yes, I do get my feathers ruffled by Tony at times. He seems stoic > (like my husband), does not like to admit that he is wrong, thinks > that his way of thinking is "the" way of thinking-ewwwww. Too many > similarities thus far. My husband is pro choice though and I can't > think of any circumstance where he'd turn his back on our daughter. > Next time that I post to Tony, I'm going to compare it to a dialogue > between my husband and I. LOL!!! You have changed my refusing to financially support a girl who's made a bad choice and affected other people to "turning my back on her". Michael Moore could take some lessons from you. -Tony One of the fundamental differences between you and I is that I don't have a problem admitting my weak spots and failings. I also don't assume to know what decisions other people should be making. Did you read what Kerry said the other day? He does not condone abortion, he is a religious man who attends church weekly and believes that life starts at conception. He also said that he has no right to make the decision (for abortion) to others who don't have the same beliefs that he has. I don't ask you to believe what I believe as far as abortion. Just trust me to make the right decision. After all...if you trust me to be a parent, certainly you have to trust me to make a choice.
                Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want to financially support her.
                If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back on
                her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either.
                I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Safety in Relationships

                  >> Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want to
                  financially support her.If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back onher. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either.I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us.
                  Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to a pregnant
                  teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant):

                  "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in every way ---
                  emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become a parent
                  (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption), you will be
                  choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your responsibilities."

                  I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out to me that
                  I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came to me in this
                  circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty sure what I
                  would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.

                  I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the pregnant teen to
                  take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or control. If
                  they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who doesn't. I
                  think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made the choices
                  that put them in that position.

                  Sheila

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Safety in Relationships

                    WhansaMi wrote:
                    Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want to financially support her. If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back on her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either. I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us. Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant): "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in every
                    way ---
                    emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become a
                    parent
                    (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption), you
                    will
                    be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your responsibilities."
                    You can bet somebody will though. They'll have to (see below)...
                    I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out to me that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came to me
                    in
                    this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty sure what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the pregnant
                    teen
                    to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or
                    control. If
                    they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who doesn't.
                    I
                    think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made the
                    choices
                    that put them in that position. Sheila
                    But how can the teen be responsible after the fact (and still choosing to be
                    a so called "parent")? They have no clue. You know that, I know that,
                    we ALL know that - except the teen, who can't see it for the life of
                    him/her.

                    It seems what often happens is the parents or some relatives have to pick up
                    the slack, unless you want to throw them out on the street. So is there
                    really a good solution? I dunno....


                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Safety in Relationships

                      >WhansaMi wrote:
                      > Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want to> financially support her. If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back on her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either. I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us. Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant): "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in everyway ---
                      emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become a
                      parent
                      (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption), you
                      will
                      be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your responsibilities."
                      You can bet somebody will though. They'll have to (see below)...
                      I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out to me that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came to me
                      in
                      this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty sure what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the pregnant
                      teen
                      to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or
                      control. If
                      they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who doesn't.
                      I
                      think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made the
                      choices
                      that put them in that position. Sheila
                      But how can the teen be responsible after the fact (and still choosing to bea so called "parent")? They have no clue. You know that, I know that,we ALL know that - except the teen, who can't see it for the life ofhim/her.It seems what often happens is the parents or some relatives have to pick upthe slack, unless you want to throw them out on the street. So is therereally a good solution? I dunno....
                      There is no **good** solution. But, there are some that are better than others
                      (IMO, abortion and adoption are both better options). If I believed that
                      keeping the child was a *poor* option, I can't see myself financing it.

                      Sheila

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Safety in Relationships

                        [email protected] (WhansaMi) writes:
                        Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want to financially support her.If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back onher. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either.I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us. Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant): "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in every way --- emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become a parent (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption), you will be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your responsibilities."
                        That seems reasonable to me too.

                        Do you think that would be Tony's attitude to a pregnant teen-age
                        daughter? I find it hard to imagine that he could forgive his
                        daughter having an abortion, but maybe I'm wrong.

                        That would leave the daughter a choice between putting up her baby for
                        an adoption (a decision many people find quite difficult to make) or
                        getting no help.
                        I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out to me that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came to me in this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty sure what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the pregnant teen to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or control.
                        You may not think that. But legally, we parents are responsible for
                        the actions of our minor children. This can become quite challenging
                        as our minor children grow more and more capable of making adult-sized
                        mistakes!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Safety in Relationships

                          WhansaMi wrote:
                          WhansaMi wrote:
                          >> Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want to>> financially support her.>> If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back on> her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either.> I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us. Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant): "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in every
                          way ---
                          emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become a
                          parent
                          (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption), you
                          will
                          be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your responsibilities." You can bet somebody will though. They'll have to (see below)...
                          I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out to
                          me
                          that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came to
                          me
                          in this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty
                          sure
                          what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the pregnant teen
                          to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or
                          control. If
                          they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who
                          doesn't. I
                          think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made the choices
                          that put them in that position. Sheila
                          But how can the teen be responsible after the fact (and still choosing to
                          be
                          a so called "parent")? They have no clue. You know that, I know
                          that,
                          we ALL know that - except the teen, who can't see it for the life of him/her. It seems what often happens is the parents or some relatives have to pick
                          up
                          the slack, unless you want to throw them out on the street. So is
                          there
                          really a good solution? I dunno.... There is no **good** solution. But, there are some that are better than others (IMO, abortion and adoption are both better options). If I
                          believed
                          that keeping the child was a *poor* option, I can't see myself financing
                          it.
                          Sheila
                          So who would? The teen probably can't. So who? Or would they be put out
                          on the street? I don't see any real life solution presented in here
                          (assuming the teenage mother refuses to consider either adoption or
                          abortion)..


                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Safety in Relationships

                            On 07 Jul 2004 00:10:45 GMT, WhansaMi
                            <[email protected]> wrote:
                            Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want to financially support her.If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back onher. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either.I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us. Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant): "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in every way --- emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become a parent (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption), you will be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your responsibilities." I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out to me that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came to me in this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty sure what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the pregnant teen to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or control. If they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who doesn't. I think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made the choices that put them in that position.
                            And I also think it's much fairer to the teen to outline the rules
                            *before* the situation comes up rather than after.

                            -Tony

                            --
                            "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
                            to fertilize your lawn!"
                            Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
                            Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Safety in Relationships

                              On 06 Jul 2004 17:41:28 -0700, Doug Anderson
                              <[email protected]> wrote:
                              [email protected] (WhansaMi) writes:
                              > Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want to> financially support her.If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back onher. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either.I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us. Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant): "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in every way --- emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become a parent (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption), you will be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your responsibilities."
                              That seems reasonable to me too. Do you think that would be Tony's attitude to a pregnant teen-age daughter? I find it hard to imagine that he could forgive his daughter having an abortion, but maybe I'm wrong.
                              It's not my place to forgive her, because the crime wasn't against me.
                              It's God's place to forgive her.

                              But she is still my daughter. I will love her, and visit her, but I will
                              not financially support her. This is the consequence for her action.
                              That would leave the daughter a choice between putting up her baby for an adoption (a decision many people find quite difficult to make) or getting no help.
                              She knows the consequences of her actions up front.
                              I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out to me that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came to me in this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty sure what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the pregnant teen to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or control. You may not think that. But legally, we parents are responsible for the actions of our minor children. This can become quite challenging as our minor children grow more and more capable of making adult-sized mistakes!
                              Sure it is. When children make adult-sized mistakes, we deal with them.
                              Sometimes that means disciplining them.

                              -Tony

                              --
                              "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
                              to fertilize your lawn!"
                              Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
                              Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Safety in Relationships

                                [email protected] (shinypenny) wrote in message news:<[email protected] com>...

                                (snip)
                                As I've mentioned before, a big reason I married my ex is that I knew in my heart he'd never hurt me. Yep, I felt completely safe. But not in the way that Sheila described in another thread, about how safe she feels with her husband. This was a safety created because there was *zero* emotional intimacy! And it was like that from the start, not a gradual process. Our relationship was built on transactions - paying the bills, caring for the children, supporting his career, keeping the house running. On that level, we worked together very well. But there was never any deep emotional talk, and there was also little shared humor (which now I see as a symptom that there was no real connection). Sure, we talked, but it was all surface-level chit-chat about work and practical matters.
                                (snip)

                                You told me about your ex before, but sometimes one has to be hit
                                twice over the head for the light to come on. This may indeed very
                                well the problem with my wife, that she chose me because I would not
                                hurt her. No surprise that we have communication problems. OTOH, our
                                situation is not as unworkable as yours because, first, I don't plan
                                to change her and, second, she did not chose somebody completely safe,
                                she chose somebody very different to her ex. Anyway, I just posted
                                that to thank you for sharing your experience, I think it will help
                                me.

                                Now, I know it is against good posting practice to mix two messages in
                                one post, but I think it is necessary that Caren knows what experience
                                I have to understand my answer to her question:
                                [email protected] (Caren) asked in message news:<[email protected] com>...
                                Here I go again. This is a topic that my husband just doesn't seem to understand. I have tried countless times, explaining what it takes for me to feel safe in this relationship and he seems to find flaws with it. I have told him what makes me feel unsafe and he finds flaws with that too. For some reason it isn't making sense to him. Either I'm not explaining it in a way that he understands or he is manipulating me. I am very curious as to what men and women in this newsgroup define as safety within a relationship.
                                and also said:
                                due to my propensity to focus on feelings.
                                Caren, I think you are not asking the right question. I am not sure
                                how to explain it, but "safety" is not a "feeling" type of
                                requirement. And it is not a requirement people generally have, or
                                nobody would ever drive a car. I mean: nobody is "safe", you might be
                                hit by a truck tomorrow.

                                In that respect, your husband is right in finding flaws in your
                                question.

                                Now, what is your real question? I can't really help in finding out (I
                                don't know what you really want), but I can point in various
                                directions. It seems the requirement you have is a feeling. Possible
                                feelings that are often present in a relationship include the
                                following:

                                -the feeling that your husband is "in charge", confident, and will
                                lead you to a life you will like
                                -the feeling that your husband is a "strong mand" that will protect
                                you
                                -the feeling that YOU can control your husband if he does not follow
                                the proper path
                                -the feeling that your husband loves you and you have that power on
                                him
                                -the feeling that you are an attractive woman and not dependent on
                                your husband
                                etc...

                                And yes: I know that the examples I gave are not all "nice" feelings,
                                but let's face it, those feelings do exist in many relationships.
                                Feelings are messy. But if your requirement is one of the not-so-nice
                                feelings (I am not saying it is, I really don't know), trying to
                                pretend it does not exist is a much worse solution than facing it.
                                This is why I listed those.

                                And last but not least: feelings happen in YOUR head. This is
                                something both of you must work on together. There is nothing your
                                husband can do if you don't help him.

                                Comment

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