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  • #46
    Safety in Relationships

    New Hope???? As in.... where is that????


    "Jack C Lipton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected] g...
    Tony Miller wrote:
    Ok, Jack. <wink> )
    Speaking of Manly Men... there ain't many of 'em in No Hope (a/k/a "New Hope"). It's been a while since I've been up there and I sometimes miss going to Meyer's and the like. -- Jack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/ "While life is too short to be taken seriously, it also lasts for far too long to spend it with a stick up your ***." - me

    Comment


    • #47
      Safety in Relationships

      [email protected] (Caren) wrote in message news:<[email protected] com>...

      What I meant was feeling heard and respected after I voice a fear, frustration or basically any kind of feeling that I have.
      Assuming your fear or frustration is not with him....

      Anxious feelings are contagious. When DF is feeling fragile or
      insecure about something that has nothing to do with our relationship
      (like work or family stress), he is more apt to feed on my anxiety,
      and vice versa. We work ourselves into quite a state. I express my
      fear or frustration about something unrelated to him, and he absorbs
      it as if it were his own fear or frustration.

      Sometimes the best thing to do is just to table it, keep it to
      yourself so the anxiety doesn't start spreading like wildfire. I know,
      I know - sometimes you need support from your partner. But if your
      partner also needs support, he's not a very good crutch anyway. It's
      like two people drowning and grasping at each other to try to stay
      afloat, and the panic causing them to drown faster!
      Sometimes I will say that to him. I'll say "yoo hoo, this is about me" but at that point it often doesn't matter.
      Both of us are working incredibly hard. Being the "stoic ex athlete" that he is, he does not fess up to moodiness or irritability. Me, being the "too ready to admit that I was wrong" fesses up too much.
      It's pretty easy for me to see when DF is feeling anxious or irritable
      about something. He's not the stoic type. Neither am I.

      Once we figured out we were feeding on each other, we developed a
      signal. We make a triangle with our hands. This tells the other
      person, "I'm trying not to absorb your negative emotions." We usually
      laugh, and that gives us both a chance to collect ourselves.

      This may or may not be the dynamic going on with you and your hubby.
      If it is, what it means is that he *is* hearing you - and not only
      hearing you - he is *feeling* exactly what you are feeling.
      Internalizing it as if it were his own fear and frustration!

      If that is the case, then you might think whether it's his job to
      quell your fears and frustration. Yeah, it's nice when he can, but
      it's not a sign that he loves you less or your relationship doesn't
      work if there are times when he can't, because he's got so much other
      stress in his life and is feeling fragile, he becomes like a radio
      receiver absorbing your frequency.

      In those situations, it becomes very helpful to figure out how to feel
      safe within yourself, instead of expecting it to come from others.

      (If I totally misread the situation, ignore and oh well maybe somebody
      lurking will get some use out of my post!)

      jen

      Comment


      • #48
        Safety in Relationships


        "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in
        Perhaps I need to be more specific. I absolutely do not believe that I should be able to say whatever I want however I want. Being that he is VERY sensitive, I do what how I say things to him. I was trained to use all of the "proper ways" to communicate: the I messages, no accusations blah blah blah. What I meant was feeling heard and respected after I voice a fear, frustration or basically any kind of feeling that I have. I'm not talking about insensitivity at all.
        Even so you must realise that he still interprets things you say
        differently.
        I often feel as if I bring up a subject and whatever I say, he'll take it personally and it turns into his issue and he'll often get mad at me for saying what I said, finding it untrue. So then I walk away feeling twice as bad. I don't know how we can get out of this rut but it is maddening and I'm at the end of my rope.
        I agree it is maddening when your message (which no doubt is supposed to
        be
        about you) gets twisted and turned into a message about him. When this happens to me I feel like "why can't it ever be just about me?" Sometimes I will say that to him. I'll say "yoo hoo, this is about me" but at that point it often doesn't matter.
        Do you ever think that maybe you would be better off not talking to him?

        I think people who can't hear and understand and keep the conversation about
        you, not them, have a confidence problem. You know what I mean?

        Do you find it necessary to talk about negative stuff more than positive
        stuff with your DH? Maybe he gets an overall picture of negative stuff and
        naturally gets defensive whenever negative stuff comes up.

        In my experience men need constant praise and ego boosting. They can't
        listen to us and keep the convo about us if their ego droops even a tiny
        bit.

        Next time you want to say something and need to feel 'safe' make sure he is
        feeling really, really good about himself. It might make a big difference.

        Amy



        Comment


        • #49
          Safety in Relationships


          "Seeker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
          news:[email protected]
          "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
          I sometimes preface my thoughts with..."I just want you to listen" or "Please don't try to come up with a solution." But I'm talking more about how when I share what I'm feeling about something that he did or didn't do. He'll debate it with me rather than show me that it matters to him what I think or feel. And the irony of this is that he often says..."this is not about who is right" yet I feel as if he wants or needs to be right. I'm asking to be heard and understood, not necessarily right. If I say that I was worried about him since he didn't call, (not an attack by any means), he'll say something like...if you were so worried why didn't you call or I was on the phone with work. He misses the "I was worried" part and so on top of feeling worried, I then feel ignored and it'll surely happen again.
          I'm just guessing here that it hurts too much for him to admit (either to himself or to you) that he has screwed up, or failed to live up to some expectation, sufficient to upset (hurt) you that he would rather deny that you are hurting than have to admit he had some role in it.
          I think it's that, too.
          (Why it hurts him to have to admit that, if it does, is a different matter.)
          Because throughout their marriage Mr Caren has had the role of the person
          who has committed misdeeds and Caren has had the role of the forgiver.
          Probably not in every issue that has troubled their marriage but in many of
          them. There is always something for Mr Caren to feel he is in the wrong
          about whether it is not shutting his sock drawer or betraying Caren's trust.

          So, by telling Caren she has misunderstood or is creating a problem where
          there is none, he is rejecting the mantle of bad guy.

          Caren , I share urf's opinion of you and I'll add that you have been far
          more forgiving than I might ever have been if put to the test but I think
          that you may be too demanding of your husband in areas that aren't all that
          important, relatively speaking. In the example you use above, why didn't you
          phone him if you were worried?

          Tai


          Comment


          • #50
            Safety in Relationships


            "shinypenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
            news:[email protected] om...
            [email protected] (Caren) wrote in message
            news:<[email protected] com>...
            I'm not sure what else to add, especially since Tai already gave such excellent advice.
            Er...maybe I should take this opportunity to stress that the advice about
            applying a heavy blunt object to Mr Caren's noggin was not intended
            seriously....

            )

            Tai



            Comment


            • #51
              Safety in Relationships

              urf wrote:
              New Hope???? As in.... where is that????
              Tony knows. It's on the Delaware. 7 years ago I
              lived up near there but closer to the north-west
              end of the county. My youngest daughter was born
              right off of 309. Tony likely caught all these
              hints... Right?

              --
              Jack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/
              "While life is too short to be taken seriously, it also lasts
              for far too long to spend it with a stick up your ***." - me

              Comment


              • #52
                Safety in Relationships

                "Tai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
                "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...
                I often feel as if I bring up a subject and whatever I say, he'll take it personally and it turns into his issue and he'll often get mad at me for saying what I said, finding it untrue. So then I walk away feeling twice as bad. I don't know how we can get out of this rut but it is maddening and I'm at the end of my rope. A perfect example is this. I will tell my husband how I feel about something. While I am telling him, he'll tell that that is not how it really happened and that it bothered him that I.....whatever. Then he'll give me his interpretation of what I said and it's often...perhaps usually wrong or somewhat off. So I try to explain that that is not what I meant and it's often too late because he is already convinced that that is what I meant. Did that make any sense?
                It sounds like it is unsafe for your husband to accept your interpretation of a situation when it differs from his. If he hears you and understands you then he might have to accept that some behaviour or action on your part that he doesn't like is something you are entitled to do. It might also mean that if there is something that he is doing or not doing that you don't like he will have to change his behaviour if he accepts your feelings about it (them). By manipulating your words and mind-reading your intentions inaccurately he can keep control of the situation - in his mind, that is. I suspect it isn't working too well for him! Bottom line is that this is an issue of emotional safety for you both but it's taking the form of a power struggle over who is more "right". if he'salways right he gets to protect his position. When people have differing verbal communication styles, particularly if one is very adept at running rings around the other in a verbal discussion, it can help to take their correspondence to the written form. I think you already do that, though.... So.... would a heavy blunt object applied to his noggin help? Tai Tai
                Oh Tai, I have thought about it on several occassions. But I'm too
                worried about losing my license to practice :-) Of course I'm also
                peace loving and non violent so I'd never harm a flea.

                YOu are right about control. I think that I"m going to have him read
                this and the other thread that I recently started just so that he can
                see opinions of others. He'll probably relate most to Tony
                though...and that is not a good thing!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Safety in Relationships

                  "Tai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
                  "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...
                  I often feel as if I bring up a subject and whatever I say, he'll take it personally and it turns into his issue and he'll often get mad at me for saying what I said, finding it untrue. So then I walk away feeling twice as bad. I don't know how we can get out of this rut but it is maddening and I'm at the end of my rope. A perfect example is this. I will tell my husband how I feel about something. While I am telling him, he'll tell that that is not how it really happened and that it bothered him that I.....whatever. Then he'll give me his interpretation of what I said and it's often...perhaps usually wrong or somewhat off. So I try to explain that that is not what I meant and it's often too late because he is already convinced that that is what I meant. Did that make any sense?
                  It sounds like it is unsafe for your husband to accept your interpretation of a situation when it differs from his. If he hears you and understands you then he might have to accept that some behaviour or action on your part that he doesn't like is something you are entitled to do. It might also mean that if there is something that he is doing or not doing that you don't like he will have to change his behaviour if he accepts your feelings about it (them). By manipulating your words and mind-reading your intentions inaccurately he can keep control of the situation - in his mind, that is. I suspect it isn't working too well for him! Bottom line is that this is an issue of emotional safety for you both but it's taking the form of a power struggle over who is more "right". if he'salways right he gets to protect his position. When people have differing verbal communication styles, particularly if one is very adept at running rings around the other in a verbal discussion, it can help to take their correspondence to the written form. I think you already do that, though.... So.... would a heavy blunt object applied to his noggin help? Tai Tai
                  Oh Tai, I have thought about it on several occassions. But I'm too
                  worried about losing my license to practice :-) Of course I'm also
                  peace loving and non violent so I'd never harm a flea.

                  YOu are right about control. I think that I"m going to have him read
                  this and the other thread that I recently started just so that he can
                  see opinions of others. He'll probably relate most to Tony
                  though...and that is not a good thing!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Safety in Relationships


                    "Bill in Co." >
                    My DH has never said "if you don't do this I'm going to leave you" but when he
                    clearly is not happy with me I worry that our marriage could end. Amy
                    Really Amy? (That part sounds a bit scary).
                    That is the point. Scary = unsafe.
                    Amy


                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Safety in Relationships

                      Oh, that New Hope.

                      We go there once or twice every year. Nice place.
                      Is suppose your reference was to the high percentage
                      of gays in the town. I've noticed that too. Of course,
                      that is part of what makes it so charmming isn't it?


                      "Jack C Lipton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                      news:s[email protected] g...
                      urf wrote:
                      New Hope???? As in.... where is that????
                      Tony knows. It's on the Delaware. 7 years ago I lived up near there but closer to the north-west end of the county. My youngest daughter was born right off of 309. Tony likely caught all these hints... Right? -- Jack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/ "While life is too short to be taken seriously, it also lasts for far too long to spend it with a stick up your ***." - me

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Safety in Relationships

                        On 2 Jul 2004 22:17:12 -0700, Caren
                        <[email protected]> wrote:
                        "Tai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
                        "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...
                        I often feel as if I bring up a subject and whatever I say, he'll take it personally and it turns into his issue and he'll often get mad at me for saying what I said, finding it untrue. So then I walk away feeling twice as bad. I don't know how we can get out of this rut but it is maddening and I'm at the end of my rope. A perfect example is this. I will tell my husband how I feel about something. While I am telling him, he'll tell that that is not how it really happened and that it bothered him that I.....whatever. Then he'll give me his interpretation of what I said and it's often...perhaps usually wrong or somewhat off. So I try to explain that that is not what I meant and it's often too late because he is already convinced that that is what I meant. Did that make any sense?
                        It sounds like it is unsafe for your husband to accept your interpretation of a situation when it differs from his. If he hears you and understands you then he might have to accept that some behaviour or action on your part that he doesn't like is something you are entitled to do. It might also mean that if there is something that he is doing or not doing that you don't like he will have to change his behaviour if he accepts your feelings about it (them). By manipulating your words and mind-reading your intentions inaccurately he can keep control of the situation - in his mind, that is. I suspect it isn't working too well for him! Bottom line is that this is an issue of emotional safety for you both but it's taking the form of a power struggle over who is more "right". if he'salways right he gets to protect his position. When people have differing verbal communication styles, particularly if one is very adept at running rings around the other in a verbal discussion, it can help to take their correspondence to the written form. I think you already do that, though.... So.... would a heavy blunt object applied to his noggin help? Tai Tai
                        Oh Tai, I have thought about it on several occassions. But I'm too worried about losing my license to practice :-) Of course I'm also peace loving and non violent so I'd never harm a flea.
                        Naw, you'd just ***** at the flea until it voluntarily moved out
                        YOu are right about control. I think that I"m going to have him read this and the other thread that I recently started just so that he can see opinions of others. He'll probably relate most to Tony though...and that is not a good thing!
                        Yes it is. If he were me, he'd be charming, brave, smart and great in the
                        sack )

                        -Tony

                        --
                        "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
                        to fertilize your lawn!"
                        Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
                        Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Safety in Relationships

                          urf wrote:
                          Oh, that New Hope. We go there once or twice every year. Nice place. Is suppose your reference was to the high percentage of gays in the town. I've noticed that too. Of course, that is part of what makes it so charmming isn't it?
                          (chuckles off-stage)

                          Actually, going wandering about, shopping w/ your wife,
                          has she noticed guys checking you out? (A former
                          co-worker went there w/ his wife and apparently let him
                          know afterwards how many men were looking him over.)

                          Otherwise a nice area. Consider taking a ride up 32
                          along the river some time; it's a pleasant ride.

                          And here I meant to tease Tony and he's gotten more
                          than a little bit quiet.

                          --
                          Jack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/
                          "While life is too short to be taken seriously, it also lasts
                          for far too long to spend it with a stick up your ***." - me

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Safety in Relationships


                            "Jack C Lipton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                            news:[email protected] g...
                            Amy Lou wrote:
                            Caren wrote:
                            I am very curious as to what men and women in this newsgroup define as safety within a relationship.
                            Good question. Feeling like the marriage will last 'until death do us part'.
                            I'm not sure that "security in the relationship" is all that *good* a thing; people *do* tend to take advantage of a situation and look for some kind of loopholes to minimize costs. From my limited observation, excess security can be equated to "tenure", which basically traps the less secure partner. It's an asymmetry. The good news is that this *can* be countered, though only by injecting some doubts into the relationship. I recall it being argued that marriage is NOT a "protected unregulated monopoly" and treating it as such means that one partner does not need to take the other's interests into account.
                            I am also curious to hear what makes folks feel unsafe. Whenever spouse complains about dealbreaker type things.
                            There's an old saying I've heard over and over again: a relationship is over as soon as one of the partners thinks it's over. It takes two to make and maintain but only one to destroy.
                            I tend to agree with you on this Jack. Estelle and I have always
                            kept a rather tenuous view on marriage. That is to say that it only
                            lasts as long as it feels good to both partners. Frivolous
                            problems aside, it works well for us.



                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Safety in Relationships


                              "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                              news:[email protected] om...
                              Oh Tai, I have thought about it on several occassions. But I'm too worried about losing my license to practice :-) Of course I'm also peace loving and non violent so I'd never harm a flea.
                              )
                              YOu are right about control. I think that I"m going to have him read this and the other thread that I recently started just so that he can see opinions of others. He'll probably relate most to Tony though...and that is not a good thing!
                              Well, since you brought it up.....

                              I have been quite surprised sometimes by the way you react to Tony, on
                              occasions you've appeared to me to have been seeking to rile him and, I've
                              thought, got in a few pokes first. So, your mentioning that you see
                              similarities between him and your husband actually answers a few questions
                              for me!

                              Tai


                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Safety in Relationships

                                "Tai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
                                "Caren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...
                                Oh Tai, I have thought about it on several occassions. But I'm too worried about losing my license to practice :-) Of course I'm also peace loving and non violent so I'd never harm a flea.
                                )
                                YOu are right about control. I think that I"m going to have him read this and the other thread that I recently started just so that he can see opinions of others. He'll probably relate most to Tony though...and that is not a good thing!
                                Well, since you brought it up..... I have been quite surprised sometimes by the way you react to Tony, on occasions you've appeared to me to have been seeking to rile him and, I've thought, got in a few pokes first. So, your mentioning that you see similarities between him and your husband actually answers a few questions for me!
                                Tai

                                Very observant my dear :-)

                                Yes, I do get my feathers ruffled by Tony at times. He seems stoic
                                (like my husband), does not like to admit that he is wrong, thinks
                                that his way of thinking is "the" way of thinking-ewwwww. Too many
                                similarities thus far. My husband is pro choice though and I can't
                                think of any circumstance where he'd turn his back on our daughter.
                                Next time that I post to Tony, I'm going to compare it to a dialogue
                                between my husband and I.

                                I have had this reaction to different posters in the past. I actually
                                had it with Doug a long time ago and realized that Doug has some
                                (some, I say!) similarities. His intellect often overwhelms me (Doug
                                and husband) due to my propensity to focus on feelings.

                                Comment

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