Safety in Relationships

[Doug Anderson]

Safety in Relationships

"glunk" <[email protected]> writes:

"Doug Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]_s03...

"glunk" <[email protected]> writes:

I guess I have something in common with your 14 yo. You have a hair

across

your ***, and I am fairly chill. Heck, I am so chill that at 36 years

old I

still say the word "chill." Oh, and "cool. " And "wicked" (NH thing). Not jus NH. But I haven't heard it outside of New England. And I don't _think_ I've heard it south of Boston even within NE. The question I have is do _kids_ still say "wicked" or are you actually dating yourself?

I have no idea. My son says wicked. But he is three, and he says whatever I say. All of which is beside the point.

Totally beside the point! I just like language, especially regional
variations.

So I like it when I'm in Seattle in a restaurant and I
hear someone three tables over in a North Shore accent saying "wicked
nice cah!" (For the rest of you, that refers to an automobile you
wish you were driving!)

[Stephanie Stowe]

Safety in Relationships


"Doug Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s02...

"glunk" <[email protected]> writes:

"Doug Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]_s03...

"glunk" <[email protected]> writes: > I guess I have something in common with your 14 yo. You have a hair

across

> your ***, and I am fairly chill. Heck, I am so chill that at 36

years

old I

> still say the word "chill." Oh, and "cool. " And "wicked" (NH

thing).

Not jus NH. But I haven't heard it outside of New England. And I don't _think_ I've heard it south of Boston even within NE. The question I have is do _kids_ still say "wicked" or are you actually dating yourself? I have no idea. My son says wicked. But he is three, and he says

whatever I

say. All of which is beside the point. Totally beside the point! I just like language, especially regional variations. So I like it when I'm in Seattle in a restaurant and I hear someone three tables over in a North Shore accent saying "wicked nice cah!" (For the rest of you, that refers to an automobile you wish you were driving!)

Did you see Finding Nemo? I about died laughing at the scene when the
animals were passing on the story. When the lobster started talking, DH and
I cracked up and DS had no idea why.

[WhansaMi]

Safety in Relationships

Whatever. That sounds so ****ed ANAL I cannot quite get with that program. Personally, I would not feel the need to bust the kid's chops. Life will be plain difficult enough without me getting all punitive on him or her. If

the

teenager is going to make a success of being an adult, they still need love and support.

I'm with you. I am a huge believer in both natural consequences andlogical consequences, but the consequences of having a baby as ateenager are so huge that I wouldn't feel the need to dream up more ofthem to make a point.

But, ya know, I've seen a number of circumstances where the teen really
*doesn't* have to handle the consequences. In the spirit of "We're all family,
and we'll pull together, and there is joy in the birth of EVERY baby," the
**family** raises that baby, and the teen really ends up with no more
responsibility than a big sister has. The grandmother moves in and does most
of the night feeding, because "Well, she has to be at school in the morning,
you know". Grandpa laughingly talks about how "That child will never walk,
because he's carried around by everyone all the time." The teen goes on with
her life, pretty much as if nothing has changed, except that she talks a lot
about *her* baby, and dresses it up and takes it to the mall, returning him
home to grandma so she can go on a date.

And, then everyone is all surprised when she is pregnant again in two years,
or, worse, the younger sister is pregnant.

Sheila

[Doug Anderson]

Safety in Relationships

"glunk" <[email protected]> writes:

"Doug Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]_s02...

"glunk" <[email protected]> writes:

"Doug Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]_s03... > "glunk" <[email protected]> writes: > > > I guess I have something in common with your 14 yo. You have a hair across > > your ***, and I am fairly chill. Heck, I am so chill that at 36

years

old I > > still say the word "chill." Oh, and "cool. " And "wicked" (NH

thing).

> > Not jus NH. But I haven't heard it outside of New England. And I > don't _think_ I've heard it south of Boston even within NE. > > The question I have is do _kids_ still say "wicked" or are you > actually dating yourself? I have no idea. My son says wicked. But he is three, and he says

whatever I

say. All of which is beside the point. Totally beside the point! I just like language, especially regional variations. So I like it when I'm in Seattle in a restaurant and I hear someone three tables over in a North Shore accent saying "wicked nice cah!" (For the rest of you, that refers to an automobile you wish you were driving!)

Did you see Finding Nemo? I about died laughing at the scene when the animals were passing on the story. When the lobster started talking, DH and I cracked up and DS had no idea why.

Not really. I saw it on an airplane, and didn't rent the headphones.
My kids liked it a lot (I rented the headphones for them, not planning
to watch it myself, but I got kind of engrossed in the animation).

[A man]

Safety in Relationships


"WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

Whatever. That sounds so ****ed ANAL I cannot quite get with that

program.

Personally, I would not feel the need to bust the kid's chops. Life

will be

plain difficult enough without me getting all punitive on him or her.

If

the

teenager is going to make a success of being an adult, they still need

love

and support.I'm with you. I am a huge believer in both natural consequences andlogical consequences, but the consequences of having a baby as ateenager are so huge that I wouldn't feel the need to dream up more ofthem to make a point. But, ya know, I've seen a number of circumstances where the teen really *doesn't* have to handle the consequences. In the spirit of "We're all

family,

and we'll pull together, and there is joy in the birth of EVERY baby," the **family** raises that baby, and the teen really ends up with no more responsibility than a big sister has.

I'm not sure anyone here is disputing you on this particular note.

The grandmother moves in and does most of the night feeding, because "Well, she has to be at school in the

morning,

you know". Grandpa laughingly talks about how "That child will never

walk,

because he's carried around by everyone all the time." The teen goes on

with

her life, pretty much as if nothing has changed, except that she talks a

lot

about *her* baby, and dresses it up and takes it to the mall, returning

him

home to grandma so she can go on a date. And, then everyone is all surprised when she is pregnant again in two

years,

or, worse, the younger sister is pregnant. Sheila

[Amy D]

Safety in Relationships



Tracey wrote:

urf wrote:

Just a quick question for those of you in this thread. Do any of you have grandchildren? Could you disavow your own grandchild?

I don't know but maybe there's a problem with communication here. I see people talking about 'turning their back on their pregnant child' and 'disavowing' them. There's a *big* difference in telling your children and backing it up with actions that a pregnancy for them under the age of 18 will mean that they will be doing the vast majority of the caretaking of that child and not you and if they're over the age of 18 it will mean the same thing except that they will be expected to get their own apartment and do the parenting there and throwing your child out on the street and pretending not to recognize them when you see them. Our son recently went to spend 10 days with his GF's family. They live quite a ways away from us now. We had a long talk with him before he left and basically laid it out for him. That if they decided to be 'stupid' while he was there and we were to get a phone call a couple of months from now informing us of impending grandparenthood, his future day-to-day life was going to be much different and we laid it out for him how very different it would be. (Computer and video game systems sold to provide baby items for the child, full-time job to pay for day-to-day expenses for the child, etc.) We also talked about how my parents started working in a factory when they were 16 and 17 and, after the kids started coming, worked in the same factory for 30 and 40 years, hating every minute of it because they *had* to work there to support their family. And the difference between them and myself and his father in that we had careers we liked *before* we had children so working to support them wasn't a 'Hate every minute spent there' kind of thing. So, kick my child out on the street if they or their GF becomes pregnant? No. Support them while they provide for and raise their child? When and if I can, to a point. Take over the caretaking and financial support of the child so that they (the child) can still have a 'normal' childhood? No way. Tracey

I honestly don't understand how people can allow minor children to spend
vacations with girlfriends/boyfriends. Not on my watch!

If your minor child gets pregnant/impregnates a girl and you let them go
on vacations together it is YOUR FAULT if they get pregnant.

amy

[Amy D]

Safety in Relationships



Chrys wrote:

"JWB" <[email protected] actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:[email protected]

"urf" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] net...

Don't get me wrong Shelia. I'm sure that you are a good mother with

good

instincts for raising your children. I have no doubt that your

children

will

be fine and never encounter these hypothetical circumstances. (I saythat about Tony too)I'm looking for some consistency of position. One point is enforcing a

teens

responsibility a person. A philosophy of "you made your bed" sounds

good

butI think there are limitations to what we as parents should do to

enforce

our

personal philosophies on our children.

You will not find consistency. I truly doubt the hard-liners will truly

be

hard line when it comes right down to it. I cannot speak from personalexperience (as I have no children), but I've known a few people who

seemed

hard-line and then the next year were making an apartment in the

basement

for pregnant 17 y/o daughter / daughter and child after the breakup /

son

and girlfriend w/ baby / etc etc. Nobody can truly say until it reallyhappens to them.I mean, what if the son/daughter proves completely incompetent and runs

off

with the biker gang in a drug-induced fit? There's a child crying on thecouch.... does grandparent call adoption services and be done with it?

Who

would really do that? I'm not a parent (and don't really like little

kids)

but I couldn't even do that to my niece, let alone my grandchild.

It is hard to know what you'd do, and then you might find yourself with 6 grandchildren to raise because your child knew without a doubt that you'd step in over and over and take over their responsibility. Sometimes people will shape up if they know there's not an easy out for them.

I have never really heard of a twisted "real-life" case that happens
that way..........

amy

[Tracey]

Safety in Relationships



Amy D wrote:

It is hard to know what you'd do, and then you might find yourselfwith 6 grandchildren to raise because your child knew without a doubtthat you'd step in over and over and take over their responsibility.Sometimes people will shape up if they know there's not an easy outfor them.
I have never really heard of a twisted "real-life" case that happens that way..........

Let me tell you about my cousin.....Although you probably won't accept
that example because she only had 5 kids and did give the last one up
for adoption.

Tracey

[Ignoramus32482]

Safety in Relationships

In article <[email protected]>, WhansaMi wrote:

Whatever. That sounds so ****ed ANAL I cannot quite get with that program. Personally, I would not feel the need to bust the kid's chops. Life will be plain difficult enough without me getting all punitive on him or her. If

the

teenager is going to make a success of being an adult, they still need love and support.

I'm with you. I am a huge believer in both natural consequences andlogical consequences, but the consequences of having a baby as ateenager are so huge that I wouldn't feel the need to dream up more ofthem to make a point.

But, ya know, I've seen a number of circumstances where the teen really *doesn't* have to handle the consequences. In the spirit of "We're all family, and we'll pull together, and there is joy in the birth of EVERY baby," the **family** raises that baby, and the teen really ends up with no more responsibility than a big sister has. The grandmother moves in and does most of the night feeding, because "Well, she has to be at school in the morning, you know". Grandpa laughingly talks about how "That child will never walk, because he's carried around by everyone all the time." The teen goes on with her life, pretty much as if nothing has changed, except that she talks a lot about *her* baby, and dresses it up and takes it to the mall, returning him home to grandma so she can go on a date. And, then everyone is all surprised when she is pregnant again in two years, or, worse, the younger sister is pregnant.

I have to say that I have never seen such a situation, which could
obviously be a reflection of my limited experience, or a reflection of
the fact that my social circle involves loving families where that
sort of thing (whoring around for missing love) does not happen, since
kids do get love and attention. Kids see responsible parents, and also
act responsibly, even if parents do not threaten them with all kinds
of nonsense.

i

[WhansaMi]

Safety in Relationships

>In article <[email protected]>, WhansaMi wrote:

> Whatever. That sounds so ****ed ANAL I cannot quite get with that

program.

> Personally, I would not feel the need to bust the kid's chops. Life will

be

> plain difficult enough without me getting all punitive on him or her. Ifthe> teenager is going to make a success of being an adult, they still need

love

> and support.I'm with you. I am a huge believer in both natural consequences andlogical consequences, but the consequences of having a baby as ateenager are so huge that I wouldn't feel the need to dream up more ofthem to make a point. But, ya know, I've seen a number of circumstances where the teen really *doesn't* have to handle the consequences. In the spirit of "We're all

family,

and we'll pull together, and there is joy in the birth of EVERY baby," the **family** raises that baby, and the teen really ends up with no more responsibility than a big sister has. The grandmother moves in and does

most

of the night feeding, because "Well, she has to be at school in the

morning,

you know". Grandpa laughingly talks about how "That child will never walk, because he's carried around by everyone all the time." The teen goes on

with

her life, pretty much as if nothing has changed, except that she talks a

lot

about *her* baby, and dresses it up and takes it to the mall, returning him home to grandma so she can go on a date. And, then everyone is all surprised when she is pregnant again in two

years,

or, worse, the younger sister is pregnant.

I have to say that I have never seen such a situation, which couldobviously be a reflection of my limited experience, or a reflection ofthe fact that my social circle involves loving families where thatsort of thing (whoring around for missing love) does not happen, sincekids do get love and attention. Kids see responsible parents, and alsoact responsibly, even if parents do not threaten them with all kindsof nonsense.i

Oh, I have seen it.... many times over. I'm from a smallish (well, it was
small when I was young) southern town, from a lower "working poor", downwardly
mobile family. In our family, and those of the neighborhoods, there are quite
a few examples of just this type of situation.

It is only one of the reasons I control the amount and type of interaction my
kids have with my family.

Sheila

[Doug Anderson]

Safety in Relationships

Ignoramus32482 <[email protected]> writes:

In article <[email protected]>, WhansaMi wrote:

> Whatever. That sounds so ****ed ANAL I cannot quite get with that program.> Personally, I would not feel the need to bust the kid's chops. Life will be> plain difficult enough without me getting all punitive on him or her. Ifthe> teenager is going to make a success of being an adult, they still need love> and support.I'm with you. I am a huge believer in both natural consequences andlogical consequences, but the consequences of having a baby as ateenager are so huge that I wouldn't feel the need to dream up more ofthem to make a point.

But, ya know, I've seen a number of circumstances where the teen really *doesn't* have to handle the consequences. In the spirit of "We're all family, and we'll pull together, and there is joy in the birth of EVERY baby," the **family** raises that baby, and the teen really ends up with no more responsibility than a big sister has. The grandmother moves in and does most of the night feeding, because "Well, she has to be at school in the morning, you know". Grandpa laughingly talks about how "That child will never walk, because he's carried around by everyone all the time." The teen goes on with her life, pretty much as if nothing has changed, except that she talks a lot about *her* baby, and dresses it up and takes it to the mall, returning him home to grandma so she can go on a date. And, then everyone is all surprised when she is pregnant again in two years, or, worse, the younger sister is pregnant.

I have to say that I have never seen such a situation, which could obviously be a reflection of my limited experience, or a reflection of the fact that my social circle involves loving families where that sort of thing (whoring around for missing love) does not happen, since kids do get love and attention. Kids see responsible parents, and also act responsibly, even if parents do not threaten them with all kinds of nonsense.

I think there are social groups in the U.S. where this would be
normal. And in those groups you have to be an exceptional parent to
avoid this scenario.

And then in many middle-class social groups this would be extremely
unusual and most parents will avoid this scenario without even trying
especially hard.

[Bill in Co.]

Safety in Relationships

Amy D wrote:

Tracey wrote:

urf wrote:

Just a quick question for those of you in this thread. Do any of you have grandchildren? Could you disavow your own grandchild?

I don't know but maybe there's a problem with communication here. I see people talking about 'turning their back on their pregnant child' and 'disavowing' them. There's a *big* difference in telling your children and backing it up with actions that a pregnancy for them under the age of 18 will mean that they will be doing the vast majority of the caretaking of that child and not you and if they're over the age of 18 it will mean the same thing except that they will be expected to get their own apartment and do the parenting there and throwing your child out on the street and pretending not to recognize them when you see them. Our son recently went to spend 10 days with his GF's family. They live quite a ways away from us now. We had a long talk with him before he left and basically laid it out for him. That if they decided to be 'stupid' while he was there and we were to get a phone call a couple of months from now informing us of impending grandparenthood, his future day-to-day life was going to be much different and we laid it out for him how very different it would be. (Computer and video game systems sold to provide baby items for the child, full-time job to pay for day-to-day expenses for the child, etc.) We also talked about how my parents started working in a factory when they were 16 and 17 and, after the kids started coming, worked in the same factory for 30 and 40 years, hating every minute of it because they *had* to work there to support their family. And the difference between them and myself and his father in that we had careers we liked *before* we had children so working to support them wasn't a 'Hate every minute spent there' kind of thing. So, kick my child out on the street if they or their GF becomes pregnant? No. Support them while they provide for and raise their child? When and if I can, to a point. Take over the caretaking and financial support of the child so that they (the child) can still have a 'normal' childhood? No way. Tracey

I honestly don't understand how people can allow minor children to spend vacations with girlfriends/boyfriends. Not on my watch!

Because they are lousy parents. And you're surprised by this?
Especially these days? I'm not surprised, not at all.

If your minor child gets pregnant/impregnates a girl and you let them go on vacations together it is YOUR FAULT if they get pregnant.

No, no, no!. Nobody is responsible for anything anymore. What
generation did you grow up under, girl?

amy

[Tony Miller]

Safety in Relationships

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:14:29 -0500, Amy D
<[email protected]> wrote:

Tracey wrote:

urf wrote:

Just a quick question for those of you in this thread. Do any of you have grandchildren? Could you disavow your own grandchild?

I don't know but maybe there's a problem with communication here. I see people talking about 'turning their back on their pregnant child' and 'disavowing' them. There's a *big* difference in telling your children and backing it up with actions that a pregnancy for them under the age of 18 will mean that they will be doing the vast majority of the caretaking of that child and not you and if they're over the age of 18 it will mean the same thing except that they will be expected to get their own apartment and do the parenting there and throwing your child out on the street and pretending not to recognize them when you see them. Our son recently went to spend 10 days with his GF's family. They live quite a ways away from us now. We had a long talk with him before he left and basically laid it out for him. That if they decided to be 'stupid' while he was there and we were to get a phone call a couple of months from now informing us of impending grandparenthood, his future day-to-day life was going to be much different and we laid it out for him how very different it would be. (Computer and video game systems sold to provide baby items for the child, full-time job to pay for day-to-day expenses for the child, etc.) We also talked about how my parents started working in a factory when they were 16 and 17 and, after the kids started coming, worked in the same factory for 30 and 40 years, hating every minute of it because they *had* to work there to support their family. And the difference between them and myself and his father in that we had careers we liked *before* we had children so working to support them wasn't a 'Hate every minute spent there' kind of thing. So, kick my child out on the street if they or their GF becomes pregnant? No. Support them while they provide for and raise their child? When and if I can, to a point. Take over the caretaking and financial support of the child so that they (the child) can still have a 'normal' childhood? No way. Tracey

I honestly don't understand how people can allow minor children to spend vacations with girlfriends/boyfriends. Not on my watch!
If your minor child gets pregnant/impregnates a girl and you let them go on vacations together it is YOUR FAULT if they get pregnant.

So I could not trust you with my girl to go on vacation with your family
if she was dating your son? (Or vica versa if I had a son dating your
daughter)

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

[Ignoramus7328]

Safety in Relationships

In article <[email protected]_s54>, Doug Anderson wrote:

Ignoramus32482 <[email protected]> writes:

In article <[email protected]>, WhansaMi wrote:

>>> Whatever. That sounds so ****ed ANAL I cannot quite get with that program.>> Personally, I would not feel the need to bust the kid's chops. Life will be>> plain difficult enough without me getting all punitive on him or her. If>the>> teenager is going to make a success of being an adult, they still need love>> and support.>>I'm with you. I am a huge believer in both natural consequences and>logical consequences, but the consequences of having a baby as a>teenager are so huge that I wouldn't feel the need to dream up more of>them to make a point. But, ya know, I've seen a number of circumstances where the teen really *doesn't* have to handle the consequences. In the spirit of "We're all family, and we'll pull together, and there is joy in the birth of EVERY baby," the **family** raises that baby, and the teen really ends up with no more responsibility than a big sister has. The grandmother moves in and does most of the night feeding, because "Well, she has to be at school in the morning, you know". Grandpa laughingly talks about how "That child will never walk, because he's carried around by everyone all the time." The teen goes on with her life, pretty much as if nothing has changed, except that she talks a lot about *her* baby, and dresses it up and takes it to the mall, returning him home to grandma so she can go on a date. And, then everyone is all surprised when she is pregnant again in two years, or, worse, the younger sister is pregnant.

I have to say that I have never seen such a situation, which could obviously be a reflection of my limited experience, or a reflection of the fact that my social circle involves loving families where that sort of thing (whoring around for missing love) does not happen, since kids do get love and attention. Kids see responsible parents, and also act responsibly, even if parents do not threaten them with all kinds of nonsense.

I think there are social groups in the U.S. where this would be normal. And in those groups you have to be an exceptional parent to avoid this scenario.

That could be right.

And then in many middle-class social groups this would be extremely unusual and most parents will avoid this scenario without even trying especially hard.

Exactly. The key is emulate those parents where such things do not
happen very much.

On the other hand, if I had a child at the age of 15, by now that
child would just have graduated from high school this June, pretty
cool.

i

[Ignoramus7328]

Safety in Relationships

In article <[email protected]>, Tony Miller wrote:

So I could not trust you with my girl to go on vacation with your family if she was dating your son? (Or vica versa if I had a son dating your daughter)

Trust her Tony... Her son will respect her in the morning...

i