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  • Safety in Relationships

    >If I believed that
    keeping the child was a *poor* option, I can't see myself financing it. SheilaI wonder why the focus on money? Would you provide emotional support?Babysitting?
    BTW, the reason I wouldn't babysit is that I am not the only babysitter in the
    world. :-) If the parent wants to go out, she would need to pay one. If she
    can't afford it... well, that is another life lesson, and one that I have
    pointed out to my own kids in this discussion --- when you have kids before you
    are ready for them, financially, it means you can't do a **lot** of things you
    want to do, from buying them cute little designer outfits, to going out.
    These things aren't free, and they are the things that you can't do if you have
    a child before you are ready for them.

    Sheila

    Comment


    • Safety in Relationships

      urf wrote:
      "Tai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
      It's beyond me how anyone who actually wanted their own children could look
      at their new grandchild and say, "you're on your own, sweetheart" to his mother or father where there was a clear need for extra help. Especially
      an
      underage teen or very young adult. Aside from anything else, my grandchildren feel like my responsibility, after they are their mother and father's. So do siblings and nephews and nieces for that matter. Mind you, I could see me using Tracey's lecture and following through on
      it.
      In some ways it would actually be easier to deal with an underage
      pregnancy
      than with an adult but totally inept son or daughter becoming a parent. At least with a teen pregnancy I could hope that the error was a mistake of youth and my child would grow into his or her responsibilities. I wouldn't want that time to be all work and joyless for him, either, as some kind of punishment.After all, what I want is for my children and their children to be happy and loved. Tai
      I don't think I ever heard before that you were a grandmother Tai. Your posts always have such a youthful flair.
      Thank you, urf, but I'm not a grandmother even though at 45 I'm old enough
      to be my 3 year old's granny - and quite respectably! I was speaking about
      my feelings about family and what I think are my responsibilities both to
      the youngest members and (not mentioned earlier) to the older ones.
      Speaking of taking the easy way out though. Isn't it the easiest way out when you turn your wayward child out into the street? Just bail and forget them.
      The only way I could see me doing anything like that was if my child causing
      real harm to myself or, more importantly, other members of our family. In
      that case I can't see any easy ways out, just having to choose the lesser
      evil.

      Tai


      Comment


      • Safety in Relationships

        Tracey wrote:
        urf wrote:
        I'm looking for some consistency of position. One point is enforcing a teens responsibility a person. A philosophy of "you made your bed" sounds good but I think there are limitations to what we as parents should do to enforce our personal philosophies on our children.
        I don't get this, Urf. Sounds like you're saying that, as a parent, my personal philosophies should take a back seat to my child's. Going back to the 'teen is having a baby' discussion, I don't see where my child's hypothetical personal philosophy of 'I'm having a baby so I'm an adult and can do what I want. And what I want is for you to take care of my baby so I can go to school, pay for it's formula and diapers and all of the other things it will need. Take it to it's doctor appointments and get up with it in the middle of the night because I must sleep so I can go to school. And, since I'm still a teen, you can also pay for my cell phone, give me money for the prom, keep the baby so I can go out with my friends and have a life' trumps
        ..
        ..
        MY personal philosophy of 'Having a baby means your childhood is over.'
        True, but even adults get to have fun sometimes. Do you really think you
        wouldn't let/encourage your daughter to go to the prom if she was doing her
        best to study and take care of her child?

        Tai


        Comment


        • Safety in Relationships

          WhansaMi wrote:
          "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
          > WhansaMi wrote:>>>> Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't>>>> want
          to
          >>>> financially support her.>>>>>> If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his>>> back on her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow>>> that either. I suppose turning your back on someone means>>> different things to us.>>>> Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say>> to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant):>>>> "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in>> every> way --->> emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to>> become a> parent>> (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for>> adoption), you> will>> be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your>> responsibilities.">> You can bet somebody will though. They'll have to (see below)...>>> I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed>> out to
          me
          >> that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son>> came to
          me
          > in>> this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm>> pretty
          sure
          >> what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.>>>> I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the>> pregnant> teen>> to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or> control. If>> they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who
          doesn't.
          > I>> think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made>> the> choices>> that put them in that position.>>>> Sheila>> But how can the teen be responsible after the fact (and still> choosing to
          be
          > a so called "parent")? They have no clue. You know that, I> know
          that,
          > we ALL know that - except the teen, who can't see it for the life> of him/her.>> It seems what often happens is the parents or some relatives have> to pick
          up
          > the slack, unless you want to throw them out on the street. So> is
          there
          > really a good solution? I dunno.... There is no **good** solution. But, there are some that are better than
          others
          (IMO, abortion and adoption are both better options). If I believed that keeping the child was a *poor* option, I can't see myself financing it. Sheila
          I wonder why the focus on money? Well, I guess (1) the conversation evolved to be around money and (2) that is a major way in which teenagers usually *cannot* supply what is needed for a baby, and a place where they have to look for someone else to pick up the slack.
          Would you provide emotional support?>>
          I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you be more specific?
          Babysitting?
          No, especially not for them to go out and "have a life". It would be one of the ground rules for living with me: school, work and parenting. No leaving the baby at home to hang out with friends. Teen life would be over.
          That's very harsh and I think that would be a good way to induce misery to
          the point of actual depression in a young parent already struggling with
          her/his new responsibilities. We don't expect adult single parents to forgo
          a social life so why would we expect a teenager to do so?

          You seem to want to punish this hypothetical errant teen!

          I wouldn't expect any grandparent to be always on tap as a baby sitter but I
          would want my child to have some free time to herself - if for no other
          reason than I know what it's like to have the care of small children and
          would have probably have gone loopy if I was never allowed free time with my
          friends.

          Tai


          Comment


          • Safety in Relationships


            "Tony Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
            news:[email protected]
            On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 13:34:36 -0400, glunk <[email protected]> wrote: Stephanie, that you??? <Snip>
            > Actually, the parents don't have to be resonsible for their children > and grandchildren. DSHS takes care of medical, WIC takes care of > formula, diapers and food stamps take care of food. Many agencies > provide homes for young parents with their baby. Really? I could give up my child right now and let someone else take
            care
            of them? (Sure if I give up my parental "rights") I do not understand this last paragraph. What are you getting at, that
            there
            really are not services available for young mothers? What does that have
            to
            do with parental rights? It sounds like you are talking about adoption,
            and
            The implication was that I wasn't responsible for my child that I could just turn her out and the state would take care of her. I had thought I was responsible for my child, and I could be arrested for abandonment. I guess this isn't the case.
            that is not what Caren is talking about at all. Though, I would not want
            my
            daughter to have to rely on WIC and other social services to raise her children. Anyone heard the lovely news out of Washington about how the republicans are trashing Section 8 in order to fund more wars (editorial
            all
            mine). Sounds like a plan to me. It was probably in the Washingtong Post, that bastion of conservative thought.

            It was on VPR. I was agast.
            Incidentally, why are we always talking about young mothers. Where do
            the
            young fathers go? In this society, fathers have no responsibility. They
            just
            drop in, demand an abortion, and when they don't get their way, they
            walk
            away. Oh wait. I just sounded way too much like Bill. Sorry. Young fathers get to pay for their children regardless of what the decision the young mother made. Don't make me invoke the name of 4ndre. He might show up! :P

            I see the world as good every day. I was helping to make dinner last night
            and was marvelling over the perfection of the onion. Then I sat on the deck
            and saw a beautiful sunset. I see my children and my husband and think the
            world is good. There are some things in this world which are not good. All
            human made.
            -Tony -- "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's
            time
            to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend. Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

            Comment


            • Safety in Relationships


              "Chrys" <[email protected]> wrote in message
              news:[email protected]
              "glunk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
              I do not understand this last paragraph. What are you getting at, that
              there
              really are not services available for young mothers? What does that have
              to
              do with parental rights? It sounds like you are talking about adoption,
              and
              that is not what Caren is talking about at all. Though, I would not want
              my
              daughter to have to rely on WIC and other social services to raise her children. Anyone heard the lovely news out of Washington about how the republicans are trashing Section 8 in order to fund more wars (editorial
              all
              mine).
              I can't really be too bothered about Section 8 being trashed. Why exactly am I supposed to want to pay for people who decided to have children they couldn't afford?

              What about the kids? And future crime? And just plain giving someone a leg
              up, whether they deserve it or not? Yeah, some people abuse the system. But
              I do not see that as a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.


              Comment


              • Safety in Relationships


                "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                news:[email protected]
                "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]
                >WhansaMi wrote: >>>> Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't
                want
                to
                >>>> financially support her. >>> >>> If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back
                on
                >>> her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that
                either.
                >>> I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to
                us.
                >> >> Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to
                a
                >> pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant): >> >> "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in every >way --- >> emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become a >parent >> (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption),
                you
                >will >> be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your >> responsibilities." > >You can bet somebody will though. They'll have to (see below)... > >> I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out
                to
                me
                >> that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came
                to
                me
                >in >> this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty
                sure
                >> what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. >> >> I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the
                pregnant
                >teen >> to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or >control. If >> they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone whodoesn't.
                >I >> think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made the >choices >> that put them in that position. >> >> Sheila > >But how can the teen be responsible after the fact (and still choosing
                to
                be
                >a so called "parent")? They have no clue. You know that, I know
                that,
                >we ALL know that - except the teen, who can't see it for the life of >him/her. > >It seems what often happens is the parents or some relatives have to
                pick
                up
                >the slack, unless you want to throw them out on the street. So is
                there
                >really a good solution? I dunno.... There is no **good** solution. But, there are some that are better
                than
                others
                (IMO, abortion and adoption are both better options). If I believed
                that
                keeping the child was a *poor* option, I can't see myself financing it. SheilaI wonder why the focus on money? Well, I guess (1) the conversation evolved to be around money and (2) that
                is a
                major way in which teenagers usually *cannot* supply what is needed for a
                baby,
                and a place where they have to look for someone else to pick up the slack.
                Would you provide emotional support?>>
                I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you be more specific?

                Something along the lines of boy did you screw up. But I still love you and
                will lend you and ear and advice if you need it...
                Babysitting?
                No, especially not for them to go out and "have a life". It would be one
                of
                the ground rules for living with me: school, work and parenting. No
                leaving
                the baby at home to hang out with friends. Teen life would be over. Sheila

                Comment


                • Safety in Relationships

                  >> >>Would you provide emotional support?>>
                  I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you be more specific?Something along the lines of boy did you screw up. But I still love you andwill lend you and ear and advice if you need it...
                  Sure.

                  Sheila

                  Comment


                  • Safety in Relationships

                    >> I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you be more specific?
                    Babysitting?
                    No, especially not for them to go out and "have a life". It would be one of the ground rules for living with me: school, work and parenting. No leaving the baby at home to hang out with friends. Teen life would be over.That's very harsh and I think that would be a good way to induce misery tothe point of actual depression in a young parent already struggling withher/his new responsibilities. We don't expect adult single parents to forgoa social life so why would we expect a teenager to do so?You seem to want to punish this hypothetical errant teen!I wouldn't expect any grandparent to be always on tap as a baby sitter but Iwould want my child to have some free time to herself - if for no otherreason than I know what it's like to have the care of small children andwould have probably have gone loopy if I was never allowed free time with myfriends.Tai
                    Sure, as I've said, I'm not the only babysitter in the world. For most
                    people, babysitters get used very judiciously **when they can be afforded**.
                    When the teen parent can afford one, he/she can hire one.

                    Sheila

                    Comment


                    • Safety in Relationships

                      On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:40:21 +1000, Tai
                      <[email protected]> wrote:
                      WhansaMi wrote:
                      "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]>> WhansaMi wrote:>>>>> Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't>>>>> want to>>>>> financially support her.>>>>>>>> If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his>>>> back on her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow>>>> that either. I suppose turning your back on someone means>>>> different things to us.>>>>>> Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say>>> to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant):>>>>>> "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in>>> every>> way --->>> emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to>>> become a>> parent>>> (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for>>> adoption), you>> will>>> be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your>>> responsibilities.">>>> You can bet somebody will though. They'll have to (see below)...>>>>> I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed>>> out to me>>> that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son>>> came to me>> in>>> this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm>>> pretty sure>>> what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.>>>>>> I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the>>> pregnant>> teen>>> to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or>> control. If>>> they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who doesn't.>> I>>> think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made>>> the>> choices>>> that put them in that position.>>>>>> Sheila>>>> But how can the teen be responsible after the fact (and still>> choosing to be>> a so called "parent")? They have no clue. You know that, I>> know that,>> we ALL know that - except the teen, who can't see it for the life>> of him/her.>>>> It seems what often happens is the parents or some relatives have>> to pick up>> the slack, unless you want to throw them out on the street. So>> is there>> really a good solution? I dunno....>> There is no **good** solution. But, there are some that are better> than others> (IMO, abortion and adoption are both better options). If I> believed that keeping the child was a *poor* option, I can't see> myself financing it.>> Sheila I wonder why the focus on money? Well, I guess (1) the conversation evolved to be around money and (2) that is a major way in which teenagers usually *cannot* supply what is needed for a baby, and a place where they have to look for someone else to pick up the slack.
                      > Would you provide emotional support?>>
                      I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you be more specific?
                      Babysitting?
                      No, especially not for them to go out and "have a life". It would be one of the ground rules for living with me: school, work and parenting. No leaving the baby at home to hang out with friends. Teen life would be over.
                      That's very harsh and I think that would be a good way to induce misery to the point of actual depression in a young parent already struggling with her/his new responsibilities. We don't expect adult single parents to forgo a social life so why would we expect a teenager to do so?
                      An adult earns the right to a social life.
                      You seem to want to punish this hypothetical errant teen!
                      Actions have consequences.
                      I wouldn't expect any grandparent to be always on tap as a baby sitter but I would want my child to have some free time to herself - if for no other reason than I know what it's like to have the care of small children and would have probably have gone loopy if I was never allowed free time with my friends.
                      Then the child earns the right to a social life (of sorts)

                      -Tony

                      --
                      "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
                      to fertilize your lawn!"
                      Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
                      Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

                      Comment


                      • Safety in Relationships

                        WhansaMi wrote:
                        I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you be more specific?> Babysitting? No, especially not for them to go out and "have a life". It would be one of the ground rules for living with me: school, work and parenting. No leaving the baby at home to hang out with friends. Teen life would be over. That's very harsh and I think that would be a good way to induce misery to the point of actual depression in a young parent already struggling with her/his new responsibilities. We don't expect adult single parents to forgo a social life so why would we expect a teenager to do so? You seem to want to punish this hypothetical errant teen! I wouldn't expect any grandparent to be always on tap as a baby sitter but I would want my child to have some free time to herself - if for no other reason than I know what it's like to have the care of small children and would have probably have gone loopy if I was never allowed free time with my friends. Tai Sure, as I've said, I'm not the only babysitter in the world. For most people, babysitters get used very judiciously **when they can be afforded**. When the teen parent can afford one, he/she can hire one.
                        One of the things I've missed about living a long way from our families was
                        having what so many other people take for granted, enthusiastic grandparents
                        who welcomed the opportunity to sit for their grandchildren. And why would I
                        want to deprive myslef of the pleasure, anyway?

                        Look, I doubt whether I'd handle such a situation very differently from you
                        in that I'd expect my child to take care of his/her responsibilities to the
                        best of his/her abilities and I'd be watchful that the standard of effort
                        was kept fairly high. However, I know that life would be pretty hard for my
                        child and the best outcome of happy and healthy child and grandchild
                        wouldn't be served by treating my child like an ex-con on parole.

                        Also, I'd provide pretty much the same basic level of care and interest that
                        I would to them if the grandchild had come at the right time rather than too
                        early.

                        Tai


                        Comment


                        • Safety in Relationships

                          "Chrys" <[email protected]> writes:
                          "glunk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
                          I do not understand this last paragraph. What are you getting at, that
                          there
                          really are not services available for young mothers? What does that have
                          to
                          do with parental rights? It sounds like you are talking about adoption,
                          and
                          that is not what Caren is talking about at all. Though, I would not want
                          my
                          daughter to have to rely on WIC and other social services to raise her children. Anyone heard the lovely news out of Washington about how the republicans are trashing Section 8 in order to fund more wars (editorial
                          all
                          mine).
                          I can't really be too bothered about Section 8 being trashed. Why exactly am I supposed to want to pay for people who decided to have children they couldn't afford?
                          Here are two reasons:

                          1) so that they are more likely to choose a non-criminal way to live
                          their adult life, thus reducing the risk and (direct and indirect)
                          expense to you of their criminal activities.

                          2) So that they will be gainfully employed and contributing to the
                          economy hence increasing the chance that you won't have a poverty
                          stricken old age.

                          There are other reasons too, but those are a couple of selfish ones.

                          Comment


                          • Safety in Relationships


                            "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                            news:[email protected]
                            I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you be more specific?> Babysitting? No, especially not for them to go out and "have a life". It would be one of the ground rules for living with me: school, work and parenting. No leaving the baby at home to hang out with friends. Teen life would be over.That's very harsh and I think that would be a good way to induce misery
                            to
                            the point of actual depression in a young parent already struggling withher/his new responsibilities. We don't expect adult single parents to
                            forgo
                            a social life so why would we expect a teenager to do so?You seem to want to punish this hypothetical errant teen!I wouldn't expect any grandparent to be always on tap as a baby sitter
                            but I
                            would want my child to have some free time to herself - if for no otherreason than I know what it's like to have the care of small children andwould have probably have gone loopy if I was never allowed free time with
                            my
                            friends.Tai Sure, as I've said, I'm not the only babysitter in the world. For most people, babysitters get used very judiciously **when they can be
                            afforded**.
                            When the teen parent can afford one, he/she can hire one. Sheila

                            Luckily for me, my in-laws don't feel that way. They actually sometimes tell
                            us we have not had a date in too long, why don't you guiys go out on
                            Saturday. I am a lucky, lucky woman.

                            S


                            Comment


                            • Safety in Relationships


                              "Tai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                              news:[email protected]
                              WhansaMi wrote:
                              "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]>> WhansaMi wrote:>>>>> Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't>>>>> want to>>>>> financially support her.>>>>>>>> If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his>>>> back on her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow>>>> that either. I suppose turning your back on someone means>>>> different things to us.>>>>>> Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say>>> to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant):>>>>>> "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in>>> every>> way --->>> emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to>>> become a>> parent>>> (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for>>> adoption), you>> will>>> be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your>>> responsibilities.">>>> You can bet somebody will though. They'll have to (see below)...>>>>> I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed>>> out to me>>> that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son>>> came to me>> in>>> this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm>>> pretty sure>>> what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.>>>>>> I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the>>> pregnant>> teen>>> to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or>> control. If>>> they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who doesn't.>> I>>> think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made>>> the>> choices>>> that put them in that position.>>>>>> Sheila>>>> But how can the teen be responsible after the fact (and still>> choosing to be>> a so called "parent")? They have no clue. You know that, I>> know that,>> we ALL know that - except the teen, who can't see it for the life>> of him/her.>>>> It seems what often happens is the parents or some relatives have>> to pick up>> the slack, unless you want to throw them out on the street. So>> is there>> really a good solution? I dunno....>> There is no **good** solution. But, there are some that are better> than others> (IMO, abortion and adoption are both better options). If I> believed that keeping the child was a *poor* option, I can't see> myself financing it.>> Sheila I wonder why the focus on money? Well, I guess (1) the conversation evolved to be around money and (2) that is a major way in which teenagers usually *cannot* supply what is needed for a baby, and a place where they have to look for someone else to pick up the slack.
                              > Would you provide emotional support?>>
                              I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you be more specific?
                              Babysitting?
                              No, especially not for them to go out and "have a life". It would be one of the ground rules for living with me: school, work and parenting. No leaving the baby at home to hang out with friends. Teen life would be over.
                              That's very harsh and I think that would be a good way to induce misery to the point of actual depression in a young parent already struggling with her/his new responsibilities. We don't expect adult single parents to
                              forgo
                              a social life so why would we expect a teenager to do so? You seem to want to punish this hypothetical errant teen! I wouldn't expect any grandparent to be always on tap as a baby sitter but
                              I
                              would want my child to have some free time to herself - if for no other reason than I know what it's like to have the care of small children and would have probably have gone loopy if I was never allowed free time with
                              my
                              friends. Tai
                              Estelle and I love to baby-sit our grandchildren. We love to see them go
                              home too.
                              I don't know how we did it when we were young. I don't know how our children
                              do
                              it now. It's the most draining thing we do in our life.


                              Comment


                              • Safety in Relationships


                                "Tony Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                                news:[email protected]
                                On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:40:21 +1000, Tai <[email protected]> wrote:
                                WhansaMi wrote:
                                > "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message> news:[email protected]>>> WhansaMi wrote:>>>>>> Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't>>>>>> want> to>>>>>> financially support her.>>>>>>>>>> If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his>>>>> back on her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow>>>>> that either. I suppose turning your back on someone means>>>>> different things to us.>>>>>>>> Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say>>>> to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant):>>>>>>>> "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in>>>> every>>> way --->>>> emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to>>>> become a>>> parent>>>> (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for>>>> adoption), you>>> will>>>> be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your>>>> responsibilities.">>>>>> You can bet somebody will though. They'll have to (see below)...>>>>>>> I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed>>>> out to> me>>>> that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son>>>> came to> me>>> in>>>> this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm>>>> pretty> sure>>>> what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.>>>>>>>> I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the>>>> pregnant>>> teen>>>> to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or>>> control. If>>>> they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who> doesn't.>>> I>>>> think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made>>>> the>>> choices>>>> that put them in that position.>>>>>>>> Sheila>>>>>> But how can the teen be responsible after the fact (and still>>> choosing to> be>>> a so called "parent")? They have no clue. You know that, I>>> know> that,>>> we ALL know that - except the teen, who can't see it for the life>>> of him/her.>>>>>> It seems what often happens is the parents or some relatives have>>> to pick> up>>> the slack, unless you want to throw them out on the street. So>>> is> there>>> really a good solution? I dunno....>>>> There is no **good** solution. But, there are some that are better>> than> others>> (IMO, abortion and adoption are both better options). If I>> believed that keeping the child was a *poor* option, I can't see>> myself financing it.>>>> Sheila>> I wonder why the focus on money? Well, I guess (1) the conversation evolved to be around money and (2) that is a major way in which teenagers usually *cannot* supply what is needed for a baby, and a place where they have to look for someone else to pick up the slack.>> Would you provide emotional support?>> I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you be more specific?> Babysitting? No, especially not for them to go out and "have a life". It would be one of the ground rules for living with me: school, work and parenting. No leaving the baby at home to hang out with friends. Teen life would be over.
                                That's very harsh and I think that would be a good way to induce misery
                                to
                                the point of actual depression in a young parent already struggling with her/his new responsibilities. We don't expect adult single parents to
                                forgo
                                a social life so why would we expect a teenager to do so? An adult earns the right to a social life.

                                Whatever. That sounds so ****ed ANAL I cannot quite get with that program.
                                Personally, I would not feel the need to bust the kid's chops. Life will be
                                plain difficult enough without me getting all punitive on him or her. If the
                                teenager is going to make a success of being an adult, they still need love
                                and support. And some breathing room. I would have lost my noddle if, upon
                                bringing my brand new baby boy home, those around me thought I had something
                                to prove before I could be allowed a helping hand. I certainly approve of
                                holding the teenager who has chosen to be an adult to the standard that they
                                have chosen. But not MORE than that out of some sort of punitive I Told You
                                So.

                                You seem to want to punish this hypothetical errant teen! Actions have consequences.

                                I would say the new life is consequence enough. It is also OK to choose to
                                teach facing consequences with joy. My mom has an expression. "Find your
                                responsibilities in life and make them you joy." I see no reason to heap
                                misery on if the respobsility is faced head on. If the teenager is accepting
                                the responsibility, why not see this as a teachable moment to show that a
                                responsibility does not have to be a bad thing?
                                I wouldn't expect any grandparent to be always on tap as a baby sitter
                                but I
                                would want my child to have some free time to herself - if for no other reason than I know what it's like to have the care of small children and would have probably have gone loopy if I was never allowed free time
                                with my
                                friends. Then the child earns the right to a social life (of sorts)

                                I do not even know what this means. What do YOU do to earn your social life?
                                -Tony -- "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's
                                time
                                to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend. Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

                                Comment

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