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  • Safety in Relationships

    urf wrote:
    "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    WhansaMi wrote:>> [email protected] (WhansaMi) writes:>>>>>>>> Tony hasn't made a distinction at all, as far as I know.>>>>>>>>>> Actually, I believe he did too.>>>>>>>> Really? What did he say?>>>>>>>>> Basically, that an adult child would be on their own, but a minor
    would
    >>> stay at home, if I recall correctly.>>>> Actually, I asked him if I meant he wouldn't financially support a>> minor daughter who had a child.>>>> He said that he wouldn't.>>>> He simultaneously said he wouldn't kick her out of the house though,>> so I don't really know what he means.>> Quite possibly the same thing I mean: I would expect my daughter to go
    to
    > school and work part-time. Money she got from work would go toward> supporting herself and the baby. Money from the baby's father would
    go
    > for their support, too. This sounds pretty good, Sheila. Really. But I can see a potential problem: Let's just suppose, though, that that is not enough money to pay for the babysitting while she is in school (which might be true). Then who
    takes
    care of the kid when she is in school? Or how is that going to be
    paid
    for? Well, I see a couple of potential answers: (1) To answer the greater issue of money (not just as it pertains to
    school
    hours and child care), it is highly unlikely that what she made working part-time (likely in a minimum wage job) would cover her expenses. I
    said,
    "as closely approximating what life would be like if she were on her own"
    (or
    something like that... I'm not googling for the exact quote). So, of course, I would, necessarily be contributing some to **her** upkeep.
    But,
    from her perspective, she would be expected to bring in as much as she could, and she would not be using it as discretionary funds -- it would
    all
    be upkeep for the baby, because, as you point out, she will not have any beyond that. It is my responsibility to support her..... I would not consider it my responsibility to support her baby. If she made those decisions, that would be her responsibility. (2) With regard to school and daycare, there are schools for mothers,
    which
    allow babies. She would likely go to one of those. Sheila she attends a school for mothers (most metropolitan areas have one,
    including
    ours). If you 16 year old daughter wanted to move out on her own, would that be
    ok?
    No pregnancy, no money or job, just a whim. She knows these people that
    have
    an apartment somewhere and she is invited to move in with them. Would you be a responsible parent if you just let her go?
    You would be an *irresponsible parent* if you allowed that. And if she
    threatened that she was going to do it anyway, I'd threaten to cut off any
    financial support to her if she left (while she was not under our care).
    And if she still left, and I couldn't bring her back on my own, I'd call the
    police. And if that didn't work, I guess I'd be out of options. All the
    while very pissed, and VERY VERY VERY worried about her - worried to death
    about her, and what's going to happen to her for the future, I expect.


    Comment


    • Safety in Relationships

      >> >How would you handle it?
      What in the world does this have to do with the matter at hand? SheilaJust this, if someone would put his teenager out for being pregnant by herown actions and responsibility, would he also allow her to move outvoluntarilyon her own responsibility?Don't get me wrong Shelia. I'm sure that you are a good mother with goodinstincts for raising your children. I have no doubt that your children willbe fine and never encounter these hypothetical circumstances. (I saythat about Tony too)I'm looking for some consistency of position. One point is enforcing a teensresponsibility a person. A philosophy of "you made your bed" sounds goodbutI think there are limitations to what we as parents should do to enforce ourpersonal philosophies on our children.I am asking if you trust your child to make this kind of choice.
      I don't have an answer, because I think there are too many different
      circumstances to consider. If he/she had graduate high school and was going to
      college? Quite possibly I would give my blessing then. If he/she was trying
      to go in a fit of anger because limits had been set? Absolutely not.

      BTW, my kids both insist they will be living with me when they are 25. I'm
      hoping this is a stage. :-/

      A couple of more random thoughts:

      My SD came to us several months ago, having moved out of her mother's house
      after an argument. She was staying with a friend. While SD is legally an
      adult, she is functionally pretty much a kid -- she doesn't drive, she had only
      just begun her first ever job, and she is emotionally about on the level of a
      sixteen year old. She came to us looking for support (financial as well as
      emotional) and what we told her was this: To want to move out of her mother's
      house was fine and appropriate. To do so without having the wherewithal to
      support herself was a really bad idea. If she wants to be treated as an adult,
      she has to act like one (her fight with her mother came because she had skipped
      work to go out with a friend). That meant being responsible, going to work
      consistently, saving money so that she could get her license and a car, make
      enough to support herself and such. We let her know that we would not be
      subsidizing her decisions. She **could** do what she wanted, but she had to
      approach adulthood like an adult, because we would not let her pretend to be an
      adult while not taking over the responsibilities.

      I'll also say here that I was sixteen when I left home. I dropped out of
      school, lied about my age, and got a job as a bookkeeper. Ultimately, I went
      through several jobs (including in a factory --- and slinging hash at 4:00
      a.m.). I got my GED at 20, and started college. I worked full time while going
      to college full time. Despite this, I took enough credits each semester to
      graduate in three years, magna cum laude.

      I know it is possible for teenagers to understand the consequences of their
      actions. I also know it is a hard road to hoe. Ultimately, it is their life
      and they have to live it. I can guide, I can offer advice, and they have the
      option of taking it, or not. But, I'm going to hold true to what I think are
      the lessons they need to learn in life... and one important one is that choices
      have consequences, and irresponsible choices often have very negative ones.

      Sheila

      Comment


      • Safety in Relationships

        >> I mean, what if the son/daughter proves completely incompetent and runs
        off
        with the biker gang in a drug-induced fit? There's a child crying on the couch.... does grandparent call adoption services and be done with it?
        Who
        would really do that? I'm not a parent (and don't really like little
        kids)
        but I couldn't even do that to my niece, let alone my grandchild.
        It is hard to know what you'd do, and then you might find yourself with 6grandchildren to raise because your child knew without a doubt that you'dstep in over and over and take over their responsibility. Sometimespeople will shape up if they know there's not an easy out for them.
        Yep. And I'm pretty ****ed sure my kids don't have that expectation about me
        at all!!

        Sheila

        Comment


        • Safety in Relationships


          "JWB" <[email protected] actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot
          com> wrote in message news:[email protected]
          "Chrys" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
          "glunk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
          I do not understand this last paragraph. What are you getting at, that
          there
          really are not services available for young mothers? What does that
          have
          to
          do with parental rights? It sounds like you are talking about
          adoption,
          and
          that is not what Caren is talking about at all. Though, I would not
          want
          my
          daughter to have to rely on WIC and other social services to raise her children. Anyone heard the lovely news out of Washington about how the republicans are trashing Section 8 in order to fund more wars
          (editorial
          all
          mine).
          I can't really be too bothered about Section 8 being trashed. Why
          exactly
          am I supposed to want to pay for people who decided to have children
          they
          couldn't afford? I agree. Screw that.
          Pay now or pay later. When some young guy breaks into a store and gets
          sent up for 5 years, you'll pay more than if you send him to Harvard for
          the same 5 years. I say give everyone $25 k per year and tell them to stay
          out of trouble.
          It's much cheaper.


          Comment


          • Safety in Relationships


            "JWB" <[email protected] actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot
            com> wrote in message news:[email protected]
            "urf" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
            Don't get me wrong Shelia. I'm sure that you are a good mother with good instincts for raising your children. I have no doubt that your children
            will
            be fine and never encounter these hypothetical circumstances. (I say that about Tony too) I'm looking for some consistency of position. One point is enforcing a
            teens
            responsibility a person. A philosophy of "you made your bed" sounds
            good
            but I think there are limitations to what we as parents should do to enforce our
            personal philosophies on our children.
            You will not find consistency. I truly doubt the hard-liners will truly be hard line when it comes right down to it. I cannot speak from personal experience (as I have no children), but I've known a few people who seemed hard-line and then the next year were making an apartment in the basement for pregnant 17 y/o daughter / daughter and child after the breakup / son and girlfriend w/ baby / etc etc. Nobody can truly say until it really happens to them. I mean, what if the son/daughter proves completely incompetent and runs
            off
            with the biker gang in a drug-induced fit? There's a child crying on the couch.... does grandparent call adoption services and be done with it? Who would really do that? I'm not a parent (and don't really like little kids) but I couldn't even do that to my niece, let alone my grandchild.
            You are such a "softie" !


            Comment


            • Safety in Relationships


              "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
              news:[email protected]
              >How would you handle it? What in the world does this have to do with the matter at hand? SheilaJust this, if someone would put his teenager out for being pregnant by
              her
              own actions and responsibility, would he also allow her to move outvoluntarilyon her own responsibility?Don't get me wrong Shelia. I'm sure that you are a good mother with goodinstincts for raising your children. I have no doubt that your children
              will
              be fine and never encounter these hypothetical circumstances. (I saythat about Tony too)I'm looking for some consistency of position. One point is enforcing a
              teens
              responsibility a person. A philosophy of "you made your bed" sounds goodbutI think there are limitations to what we as parents should do to enforce
              our
              personal philosophies on our children.I am asking if you trust your child to make this kind of choice. I don't have an answer, because I think there are too many different circumstances to consider. If he/she had graduate high school and was
              going to
              college? Quite possibly I would give my blessing then. If he/she was
              trying
              to go in a fit of anger because limits had been set? Absolutely not. BTW, my kids both insist they will be living with me when they are 25.
              I'm
              hoping this is a stage. :-/ A couple of more random thoughts: My SD came to us several months ago, having moved out of her mother's
              house
              after an argument. She was staying with a friend. While SD is legally an adult, she is functionally pretty much a kid -- she doesn't drive, she had
              only
              just begun her first ever job, and she is emotionally about on the level
              of a
              sixteen year old. She came to us looking for support (financial as well
              as
              emotional) and what we told her was this: To want to move out of her
              mother's
              house was fine and appropriate. To do so without having the wherewithal
              to
              support herself was a really bad idea. If she wants to be treated as an
              adult,
              she has to act like one (her fight with her mother came because she had
              skipped
              work to go out with a friend). That meant being responsible, going to
              work
              consistently, saving money so that she could get her license and a car,
              make
              enough to support herself and such. We let her know that we would not be subsidizing her decisions. She **could** do what she wanted, but she had
              to
              approach adulthood like an adult, because we would not let her pretend to
              be an
              adult while not taking over the responsibilities. I'll also say here that I was sixteen when I left home. I dropped out of school, lied about my age, and got a job as a bookkeeper. Ultimately, I
              went
              through several jobs (including in a factory --- and slinging hash at
              4:00
              a.m.). I got my GED at 20, and started college. I worked full time while
              going
              to college full time. Despite this, I took enough credits each semester
              to
              graduate in three years, magna cum laude. I know it is possible for teenagers to understand the consequences of
              their
              actions. I also know it is a hard road to hoe. Ultimately, it is their
              life
              and they have to live it. I can guide, I can offer advice, and they have
              the
              option of taking it, or not. But, I'm going to hold true to what I think
              are
              the lessons they need to learn in life... and one important one is that
              choices
              have consequences, and irresponsible choices often have very negative
              ones.
              Sheila
              Your response is perfectly rational and appropriate. It is very much as I
              would
              have done. The key is to maintain your relationship so as to maintain your
              ability to guide a teen through the growing up process. You did that
              artfully.
              If they are tossed away, they lose you and you lose them. It is not the way
              to
              go in my opinion.


              Comment


              • Safety in Relationships

                "JWB" <[email protected] actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> writes:
                "urf" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
                Don't get me wrong Shelia. I'm sure that you are a good mother with good instincts for raising your children. I have no doubt that your children
                will
                be fine and never encounter these hypothetical circumstances. (I say that about Tony too) I'm looking for some consistency of position. One point is enforcing a
                teens
                responsibility a person. A philosophy of "you made your bed" sounds good but I think there are limitations to what we as parents should do to enforce
                our
                personal philosophies on our children.
                You will not find consistency. I truly doubt the hard-liners will truly be hard line when it comes right down to it.
                I think you are right, and I think it may be what this discussion
                comes down to. It is easy to stake out hard line positions. Not so
                easy to stick to the letter when you are talking about the future of your
                teenager.

                Comment


                • Safety in Relationships

                  "urf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                  news[email protected]
                  "JWB" <[email protected] actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite
                  dot
                  com> wrote in message news:[email protected]
                  "Chrys" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
                  "glunk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] > I do not understand this last paragraph. What are you getting at,
                  that
                  there > really are not services available for young mothers? What does that have
                  to > do with parental rights? It sounds like you are talking about
                  adoption,
                  and > that is not what Caren is talking about at all. Though, I would not
                  want
                  my > daughter to have to rely on WIC and other social services to raise
                  her
                  > children. Anyone heard the lovely news out of Washington about how
                  the
                  > republicans are trashing Section 8 in order to fund more wars (editorial
                  all > mine). I can't really be too bothered about Section 8 being trashed. Why
                  exactly
                  am I supposed to want to pay for people who decided to have children
                  they
                  couldn't afford? I agree. Screw that.
                  Pay now or pay later. When some young guy breaks into a store and gets sent up for 5 years, you'll pay more than if you send him to Harvard for the same 5 years. I say give everyone $25 k per year and tell them to stay out of trouble. It's much cheaper.
                  well, you probably don't want to know my solution, but let's say I have
                  little room in my heart for people who break into stores.


                  Comment


                  • Safety in Relationships



                    urf wrote:

                    I'm looking for some consistency of position. One point is enforcing a teens responsibility a person. A philosophy of "you made your bed" sounds good but I think there are limitations to what we as parents should do to enforce our personal philosophies on our children.
                    I don't get this, Urf. Sounds like you're saying that, as a parent, my
                    personal philosophies should take a back seat to my child's. Going back
                    to the 'teen is having a baby' discussion, I don't see where my child's
                    hypothetical personal philosophy of 'I'm having a baby so I'm an adult
                    and can do what I want. And what I want is for you to take care of my
                    baby so I can go to school, pay for it's formula and diapers and all of
                    the other things it will need. Take it to it's doctor appointments and
                    get up with it in the middle of the night because I must sleep so I
                    can go to school. And, since I'm still a teen, you can also pay for
                    my cell phone, give me money for the prom, keep the baby so I can go
                    out with my friends and have a life' trumps MY personal philosophy of
                    'Having a baby means your childhood is over.'


                    Tracey

                    Comment


                    • Safety in Relationships



                      Doug Anderson wrote:
                      "JWB" <[email protected] actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> writes:
                      "urf" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] net...
                      Don't get me wrong Shelia. I'm sure that you are a good mother with goodinstincts for raising your children. I have no doubt that your children
                      will
                      be fine and never encounter these hypothetical circumstances. (I saythat about Tony too)I'm looking for some consistency of position. One point is enforcing a
                      teens
                      responsibility a person. A philosophy of "you made your bed" sounds goodbutI think there are limitations to what we as parents should do to enforce
                      our
                      personal philosophies on our children.
                      You will not find consistency. I truly doubt the hard-liners will truly behard line when it comes right down to it.
                      I think you are right, and I think it may be what this discussion comes down to. It is easy to stake out hard line positions. Not so easy to stick to the letter when you are talking about the future of your teenager.
                      But, seriously, I'm not seeing where the actual implementation of
                      what the 'hardliners' are saying and what others are saying are any
                      different. Tony, when pressed, has said a hypothetical 13yo daughter
                      who got pregnant wouldn't be tossed out in the street. Shelia has
                      outlined her hypothetical reaction and actions if one of her teens
                      got pregnant. I have outlined mine. And people are saying 'Yah, that
                      sounds okay' to it.

                      Tracey


                      Comment


                      • Safety in Relationships

                        Tracey <[email protected]> writes:
                        Doug Anderson wrote:
                        "JWB" <[email protected] actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> writes:
                        "urf" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] net...>Don't get me wrong Shelia. I'm sure that you are a good mother with good>instincts for raising your children. I have no doubt that your childrenwill>be fine and never encounter these hypothetical circumstances. (I say>that about Tony too)>>I'm looking for some consistency of position. One point is enforcing ateens>responsibility a person. A philosophy of "you made your bed" sounds good>but>I think there are limitations to what we as parents should do to enforceour>personal philosophies on our children.You will not find consistency. I truly doubt the hard-liners will truly behard line when it comes right down to it.
                        I think you are right, and I think it may be what this discussion comes down to. It is easy to stake out hard line positions. Not so easy to stick to the letter when you are talking about the future of your teenager.
                        But, seriously, I'm not seeing where the actual implementation of what the 'hardliners' are saying and what others are saying are any different. Tony, when pressed, has said a hypothetical 13yo daughter who got pregnant wouldn't be tossed out in the street. Shelia has outlined her hypothetical reaction and actions if one of her teens got pregnant. I have outlined mine. And people are saying 'Yah, that sounds okay' to it.
                        Right. That's the point. What Tony or Sheila would actually _do_
                        isn't consistent with their initially outlined hardline position of
                        "no financial support."

                        Comment


                        • Safety in Relationships


                          "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                          news:[email protected]
                          Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want to financially support her.If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back onher. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either.I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us. Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to a
                          pregnant
                          teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant): "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in every
                          way ---
                          emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become a
                          parent
                          (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption), you
                          will be
                          choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your
                          responsibilities."
                          I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out to me
                          that
                          I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came to me in
                          this
                          circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty sure what
                          I
                          would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the pregnant
                          teen to
                          take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or control.

                          Agreed. But there does not have to be a hard line in the sand drawn either.
                          When a teen is pregnant, there are still choices. Certainly there is one
                          fewer choices for religious people whose religion prevents consideration of
                          abortion. There are at least 2 choices, adoption and the teenager as parent.
                          If the teenager choses the latter, still one does not have to say, OK you
                          are an adult and drop kick them. A parent could do something along the lines
                          of insist that they are not raising the child for their child. The timeline
                          for growing up has just shortened dramatically so I will continue to
                          scaffold your maturation process until date X and here are the ground rules
                          (then list whatever they are; like finishing education, or gaining
                          employment or finding childcare or whatever...)

                          If they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who doesn't.
                          I
                          think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made the
                          choices
                          that put them in that position. Sheila

                          Comment


                          • Safety in Relationships


                            "Bill in Co." <[email protected]> wrote in message
                            news:[email protected] ink.net...
                            WhansaMi wrote:
                            > Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want to> financially support her. If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back on her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either. I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us. Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant): "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in every
                            way ---
                            emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become a
                            parent
                            (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption), you
                            will
                            be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your responsibilities."
                            You can bet somebody will though. They'll have to (see below)...
                            I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out to
                            me
                            that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came to
                            me
                            in
                            this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty
                            sure
                            what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the pregnant teen
                            to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or
                            control. If
                            they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who
                            doesn't.
                            I
                            think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made the
                            choices
                            that put them in that position. Sheila
                            But how can the teen be responsible after the fact (and still choosing to
                            be
                            a so called "parent")? They have no clue. You know that, I know
                            that,
                            we ALL know that - except the teen, who can't see it for the life of him/her.
                            It is a weird miracle, but even the most clueless grow up. I believe it has
                            to do more with experience than merely the passage of time. And what a
                            whopper of an experience!
                            It seems what often happens is the parents or some relatives have to pick
                            up
                            the slack, unless you want to throw them out on the street. So is there really a good solution? I dunno....
                            The same thing a parent of the teen would do anyway, but on a dramatically
                            tightened timeline. Continue to help the teenager grow up, where grow up has
                            very clear goals in mind.


                            Comment


                            • Safety in Relationships


                              "WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                              news:[email protected]
                              WhansaMi wrote:
                              >> Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want
                              to
                              >> financially support her.>> If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back on> her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either.> I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us. Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to a pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant): "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in everyway ---
                              emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become a
                              parent
                              (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption), you
                              will
                              be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your responsibilities."
                              You can bet somebody will though. They'll have to (see below)...
                              I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out to
                              me
                              that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came to
                              me
                              in
                              this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty
                              sure
                              what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the pregnantteen
                              to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice or
                              control. If
                              they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who
                              doesn't.
                              I
                              think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made the
                              choices
                              that put them in that position. Sheila
                              But how can the teen be responsible after the fact (and still choosing to
                              be
                              a so called "parent")? They have no clue. You know that, I know
                              that,
                              we ALL know that - except the teen, who can't see it for the life ofhim/her.It seems what often happens is the parents or some relatives have to pick
                              up
                              the slack, unless you want to throw them out on the street. So is
                              there
                              really a good solution? I dunno.... There is no **good** solution. But, there are some that are better than
                              others
                              (IMO, abortion and adoption are both better options). If I believed that keeping the child was a *poor* option, I can't see myself financing it. Sheila
                              I wonder why the focus on money? Would you provide emotional support?
                              Babysitting?


                              Comment


                              • Safety in Relationships

                                >"WhansaMi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                                news:[email protected]
                                WhansaMi wrote:>>> Tony didn't say he'd turn his back on her - he said he doesn't want
                                to
                                >>> financially support her.>>>> If her life depends on his support, he is in fact turning his back on>> her. If she needs to live with him, he would not allow that either.>> I suppose turning your back on someone means different things to us.>> Caren, I dunno. I think that it is reasonable for parents to say to a> pregnant teen (or a teen whose girlfriend is pregnant):>> "Being a parent is for adults. One has to become an adult, in everyway ---> emotionally, physically, and financially. If you choose to become aparent> (i.e., not have an abortion, and not put the baby up for adoption), youwill> be choosing to become an adult. I will not be taking over your> responsibilities."You can bet somebody will though. They'll have to (see below)...> I've talked about this with people before, and they have pointed out to
                                me
                                > that I don't know, for sure, what I would do if my daughter/son came to
                                me
                                in> this circumstances. And, in this case, they are right... I'm pretty
                                sure
                                > what I would do, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.>> I don't, however, think it is INCUMBANT on the parents of the pregnantteen> to take over that responsibility, over which they had no choice orcontrol. If> they want to, that is fine, but I don't think badly of anyone who
                                doesn't.
                                I> think the ultimate responsibility lays with the teens, who made thechoices> that put them in that position.>> SheilaBut how can the teen be responsible after the fact (and still choosing to
                                be
                                a so called "parent")? They have no clue. You know that, I know
                                that,
                                we ALL know that - except the teen, who can't see it for the life ofhim/her.It seems what often happens is the parents or some relatives have to pick
                                up
                                the slack, unless you want to throw them out on the street. So is
                                there
                                really a good solution? I dunno.... There is no **good** solution. But, there are some that are better than
                                others
                                (IMO, abortion and adoption are both better options). If I believed that keeping the child was a *poor* option, I can't see myself financing it. Sheila
                                I wonder why the focus on money?
                                Well, I guess (1) the conversation evolved to be around money and (2) that is a
                                major way in which teenagers usually *cannot* supply what is needed for a baby,
                                and a place where they have to look for someone else to pick up the slack.
                                Would you provide emotional support?>>
                                I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you be more specific?
                                Babysitting?
                                No, especially not for them to go out and "have a life". It would be one of
                                the ground rules for living with me: school, work and parenting. No leaving
                                the baby at home to hang out with friends. Teen life would be over.

                                Sheila

                                Comment

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