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  • #16
    Before Saxxy gets going on another long, intellectually challenged rant.....



    The American Psychiatric Association has refused to include PAS in the DSM Ð the diagnostic directory for psychiatric disorders - despite concerted campaigns by Gardner and his followers to have it included, presumably because it is not an actual proven syndrome.
    - National Center for Prosecution of Child Abuse
    "Although PAS may be hailed as a "syndrome" . . . in fact it is the product of anecdotal evidence gathered from Dr. Gardner's own practice. . . PAS is based primarily upon two notions, neither of which has a foundation in empirical research.
    - National Center for Prosecution of Child Abuse/
    American Prosecutors Research Institute/
    National District Attorneys Association
    "PAS is not recognized by any professional associations, including the American Psychiatric Association."
    - Id.
    Saxxy, if you want more, I can give it to you. You are flat out wrong and continuing your campaign against mothers does nothing to help your cause. It just further convinces those that start out knowing nothing about you to conclude you are, in fact, an abuser. Get help.
    ************************************

    Helping, you are doing nothing wrong. It is completely acceptable that they share a room. I agree with Xena. If you can get his statements in writing, please let us know the court date that you plan to hand that statement to a judge. I'll bring the video camera and the popcorn.
    Last edited by mommyof4; 11-05-2007, 06:43 AM.
    HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
    How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
    (unique up on him)
    How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
    (same way)

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by saxxyman View Post
      Sorry to get off topic folks but this person took it there.
      Anyone can read my post and you will find that I acknowledge that there are real child abusers and they should be held accountable for their crime. What this close minded individual refuses to see is that there are many cases where an individual is falsely accused. This does not help the cause! Neither does this person have any comprehension that falsely accusing a person of abuse effects more than just the accused. It ruins families and destroys lives. It in itself is abuse and causes just as much damage to the children, the accused and the extended family. This is a horrible crime that carries little penalty in comparison, if the person accused were convicted. This is a huge miscarriage of justice. I referred this person to educate them self about PAS and SAID syndrome, but as you can imagine they had no interest. They would rather keep their head in the sand.

      I apologize to anyone offended in this topic for straying, as I do generally believe what the original poster was saying. The other individual can apologize for them self. Though I doubt they have the decency.
      I have plenty of decency, though nothing to apologize for.

      You find it appropriate to hijack threads so that you can tell people that child abuse claims are false and the children are, instead, victims of parental manipulation.

      You need help.
      Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

      I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

      Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

      Comment


      • #18
        Agreed.

        I shared a room until I went away to college. All it fostered was a closer relationship to my brothers than most enjoy.
        Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

        I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

        Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

        Comment


        • #19
          Mommy of 4 Thanks so much. If I was lucky enough to get it in writing, I would supply the popcorn. However, he is not going to say it to me in writing because he knows I will tell him exactly what you and Xena would say. We all know that would be out of the question. He goes through the kids because he knows it will get back to me. He gets at me through them. Thanks again

          Comment


          • #20
            Cautious

            Originally posted by Helping Hand View Post
            This is a response to Saxxyman. The reason I came to this site is to get answers to my question, but you seemed to have the need to make a remark about how many times woman abuse the legal system and how easy it is to get a restaining order without real evidence.You also stated that there was not enough information to find out if I had evidence or not. The answer to your question is it was PROVEN to the judge that I was physically and mentally abused by my ex. I didn't think that I needed to come on here and tell all. I figured I was amoung people who shared the same past as I did, and I could seek help here. I had a question and asked a question, but you seemed to get off of the subject.
            When I sat in court the day I received my FRO, I did not see one person who got the restraining not present their case properly and show proof. I do not beleieve that a judge can or will grant a Ro without having proof. It sounds to me like maybe you have been burned or perhaps an abuser yourself. Either way, I didn't come on here to be analyzed I was looking for answers. Thanks to all who stood up for me and did answer my question.
            Evidently my opening comments enraged you to the point of not fully comprehending all of my post. Here is my angle. I do not automatically assume a person is guilty simply by say so. It must be substantiated as many areas of the country a person can get a RO just by saying the other did this. I did not directly accuse you of doing so. i was just merely point out the fact and caution needs to be used before condemnation. If you will pat attention to my first post, I did say that if he was doing those things, then there were things you could do and I listed them. (I left the condemnation to you) No one here has access to the information you do, or knows the exact circumstances
            In no way do I support men physically hitting a woman, but neither should a woman be hitting a man. Both should have better self discipline. It can not be one sided. ( I am not suggesting your situation is like that. just food for thought) Too many people make automatic assumptions and use stereo types. I am not one of these people and want as much information as possible before I make a call. Why? Because people will be people, never mind gender differences. There are many scenarios in life. If there is abuse, it is not automatically any certain gender, but our culture seems to be biased about many things and make assumptions because a person is a certain gender. Male or female the individual is responsible not a gender. There are always two sides to every story. Until there is evidence which side is being truthful who knows? Sometimes both sides are be truthful and deceptive. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

            Comment


            • #21
              The Facts

              Originally posted by mommyof4 View Post
              Before Saxxy gets going on another long, intellectually challenged rant.....







              Saxxy, if you want more, I can give it to you. You are flat out wrong and continuing your campaign against mothers does nothing to help your cause. It just further convinces those that start out knowing nothing about you to conclude you are, in fact, an abuser. Get help.
              ************************************

              Helping, you are doing nothing wrong. It is completely acceptable that they share a room. I agree with Xena. If you can get his statements in writing, please let us know the court date that you plan to hand that statement to a judge. I'll bring the video camera and the popcorn.
              You have told me nothing I didn't already know. See I actually read up on my subjects. I don't clam to know it all either. On the subject of PAS, you need to send me nothing. Perhaps I need to send you information. True, it is only a syndrome and not yet widely accepted. What you obviously omitted or do not know is that it is going through the process to get it entered into the books.
              The University of West Virgina is currently accepting stories to study to gain the necessary documentation. Thus moving it from a being classified as a syndrome to a disorder.

              As to your last comment... Your judgment and others like you are not a concern when it comes to myself. I know the truth and therefore your opinion about me is not a concern. I have no trouble sleeping at night and can hold my head high. My conscious is clear. I just refuse to let people victimize me or others simply on say so. GIVE FACTS NOT EMOTION.

              Comment


              • #22
                Umcore

                Originally posted by mommyof4 View Post
                Before Saxxy gets going on another long, intellectually challenged rant.....







                Saxxy, if you want more, I can give it to you. You are flat out wrong and continuing your campaign against mothers does nothing to help your cause. It just further convinces those that start out knowing nothing about you to conclude you are, in fact, an abuser. Get help.
                ************************************

                Helping, you are doing nothing wrong. It is completely acceptable that they share a room. I agree with Xena. If you can get his statements in writing, please let us know the court date that you plan to hand that statement to a judge. I'll bring the video camera and the popcorn.
                Final point! You are completely wrong as to my motives. I am not on a campaign against women or mothers. I am on a mission to be sure facts are presented from all sides and looked at objectively, before jumping on to any witch hunts or helping an individual unknowing who should be supported. The gender makes no difference. It just happens that this topic uses automatic stereotypes and automatic presumption of guilt based on gender. Once again follow closely so you don't miss it. If facts given are backed up by a neutral source or the opposing side's facts are incriminating then there would be no dispute. GENDER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FACTS. They are what the are and belong to who they belong to. This is a legal forum and the last time I checked the law requires proof not say so. A person is also suppose to be innocent till proven guilty. The problem is, it doesn't work that way because of prejudices.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Your words????

                  Originally posted by cyjeff View Post
                  I have plenty of decency, though nothing to apologize for.

                  You find it appropriate to hijack threads so that you can tell people that child abuse claims are false and the children are, instead, victims of parental manipulation.

                  You need help.
                  1 Do you not see your contradiction? Is not this thread about a father using a form of mental abuse on his children and x-wife? THAT IS A PARENTAL MANIPULATION.
                  2 Most of you think this is about gender, because your emotion has gotten in the way. I actually side with the woman in this post and agree it is out of line for the father to be doing such things. The other things listed was to just keep all angles open. That is a simple form of being unbiased and not fully committing to a side just on say so.
                  3 I need no help. I am doing fine and very comfortable.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by saxxyman View Post
                    Final point! You are completely wrong as to my motives. I am not on a campaign against women or mothers. I am on a mission to be sure facts are presented from all sides and looked at objectively, before jumping on to any witch hunts or helping an individual unknowing who should be supported. The gender makes no difference. It just happens that this topic uses automatic stereotypes and automatic presumption of guilt based on gender. Once again follow closely so you don't miss it. If facts given are backed up by a neutral source or the opposing side's facts are incriminating then there would be no dispute. GENDER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FACTS. They are what the are and belong to who they belong to. This is a legal forum and the last time I checked the law requires proof not say so. A person is also suppose to be innocent till proven guilty. The problem is, it doesn't work that way because of prejudices.
                    No....YOU have presented all of your "facts" and arguments based on gender. As a matter of fact, here are YOUR opening sentences in your first reply on this thread....and this is ONLY ON THIS THREAD. If everyone else bothered to read your paragraphless, grammatically incorrect novels, they would find many more blatant examples of your true agenda.
                    Sounds like a little Parent Alienation Syndrome. Most often the female is guilty of this.
                    Everyone else realizes that both sexes are capable of abusing a child. If you truly just wanted to answer the question without stirring up any controversy, you would have had absolutely no reason to bring up a 'theory' based on one dead guys 'clinical experience' and the preconcieved guilty verdict of 51% of the population.

                    You are the one that brought up PAS. PAS is not even a legitimate diagnosis. If you had truly educated yourself on the topic, you would have been smart enough to not even raise the topic. Not to mention that PAS, if it existed, is not even a remote possibility here. The FATHER is trying to disrupt the children's relationship with the mother. There is already a PO against the father for proven abuse. He was an abuser. He can't get to the OP physically anymore, so he will just use the children to hurt her.

                    I really don't even care enough to try to figure out your story. All I know is that you have continuously posted about how women and children lie. The more you protest, the more it looks like you are trying to rewrite history. When you have legal facts to post and are able to back them up with reputable sources, go ahead. Until then, YOU can stop posting your sexist rants. You serve no purpose other than to get a personal thrill out of getting back at the gender that you feel has harmed you.
                    Last edited by mommyof4; 11-06-2007, 04:11 AM.
                    HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                    How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                    (unique up on him)
                    How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                    (same way)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Time Out

                      Originally posted by mommyof4 View Post
                      No....YOU have presented all of your "facts" and arguments based on gender. As a matter of fact, here are YOUR opening sentences in your first reply on this thread....and this is ONLY ON THIS THREAD. If everyone else bothered to read your paragraphless, grammatically incorrect novels, they would find many more blatant examples of your true agenda.
                      Everyone else realizes that both sexes are capable of abusing a child. If you truly just wanted to answer the question without stirring up any controversy, you would have had absolutely no reason to bring up a 'theory' based on one dead guys 'clinical experience' and the preconcieved guilty verdict of 51% of the population.

                      You are the one that brought up PAS. PAS is not even a legitimate diagnosis. If you had truly educated yourself on the topic, you would have been smart enough to not even raise the topic. Not to mention that PAS, if it existed, is not even a remote possibility here. The FATHER is trying to disrupt the children's relationship with the mother. There is already a PO against the father for proven abuse. He was an abuser. He can't get to the OP physically anymore, so he will just use the children to hurt her.

                      I really don't even care enough to try to figure out your story. All I know is that you have continuously posted about how women and children lie. The more you protest, the more it looks like you are trying to rewrite history. When you have legal facts to post and are able to back them up with reputable sources, go ahead. Until then, YOU can stop posting your sexist rants. You serve no purpose other than to get a personal thrill out of getting back at the gender that you feel has harmed you.
                      What? Are you kidding me? Perhaps you need to learn reading and comprehension while you are blasting someone on technical grammar issues. This is not a English lit forum and I'm not in school to be graded, neither am I concerned about such. My time is precious and I am not about to worry about such petty things.. It is irreverent concerning the topic at hand. On the other hand comprehension is relevant and obviously YOU NEED TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK.

                      You brought up my first post so lets look at it.
                      Opening line..."Sounds like a little parent alienation syndrome".
                      1 That statement did not have gender attached and was referring to what the male was doing not the woman. You assumed its meaning.

                      Second sentence...."Most often the female is guilty of this."
                      2 This statement did not say the woman in this post was it was a general statement. You assumed again. Then your emotion took away your comprehension because being over sensitive. Perhaps it was a little sexist, but at the same time, the studies point to women being more likely to behave in this fashion. The debate of who accepts PAS isn't really an issue. That is another debate. I never claimed to know it all. But I have read many sources and it all isn't Dr Gardner. I did tell you it is in the process of being proven so it can be allowed in the psychiatric book. (sorry is I did not use the exact name). With all your wisdom you know what I am talking about( I can retrieve it) You ignored the comment that the University of West Virginia is one of the institutions doing the research. Just because it isn't in the book doesn't mean it isn't real. It is still petty crap, in the over all points trying to be made. It is your assumptions and animosity that has prohibited you to comprehend anything, except your own sexist view.

                      Third Sentence.... "Using your children as pawns and putting down the X in front of them is wrong"
                      3 Once again you made assumptions. This statement is neutral gender. It applies to both and is referring it is wrong and neither should be guilty of this behavior. I condemned neither. I just made a general statement and they could judge them self and make any adjustment necessary. In this case, by her words the X husband is doing this. The reminder to everyone that we are simply going on a person's say so, Is another general statement and reminder.
                      I will always keep an open mind to other possibilities based simply on say so. No person here has the access to all the facts to be objective.(Including me)
                      That is the major difference between me and most everyone here. I am just not sold simply on say so. I will keep an open mind acknowledging all possibilities are possible. Need I remind you I actually am supporting the poster's side. The next sentence will prove this.

                      Fourth Sentence....."The kids deserve better from him, and if you are guilty of any bashing you should quit as well."
                      4 Do you see the letters HIM in this sentence? Do you see the word IF?
                      Do I really need to explain this one? ( guess I will or you will assume again)
                      The x-husband in this sentence is the one implied guilty. The word "IF" is applied to the woman. Do you have a dictionary?

                      Fifth Sentence...."This is abusive and needs to stop."
                      5 Where in this sentence, have I denied abuse never happens and all accusations are false? My only concern is that there is clear evidence, when a person it charged and taken to court. Unfortunately many times lives are ruined simply by say so. Again that is a general statement and applies to all cases. The word many does not mean all. Where do you get that meaning? I am just cautious to make judgment that is all. In this case, The main question of the original poster, is answered in the next three sentences.

                      Sixth Sentence..."I AGREE, IF HE DOESN'T LIKE THEIR SPACE, THEN ASK HIM TO HELP, WITH YOU GETTING MORE."
                      6 Sure don't want you to miss this one. What exactly does this say to you????
                      ANSWER PLEASE!!!! This (among others) is why, I say you have trouble with reading/comprehension. Never mind spelling errors and proper punctuation. That is a whole lot easier to get back into than teaching someone how to comprehend.

                      Seventh Sentence...."That doesn't mean give them to him."
                      7 Does this look like I side with all men?????? Take the blinders off and perhaps some of that tunnel vision of yours will get better. I'm no hypocrite. I side with men and women. It just happens by coincidence or nature that certain topics will effect one gender more than another. The whole problem is your analysis and problem solving is mostly based on sensitivity
                      and emotion instead of logic. Which method do you think is more reliable and fair? Should I even ask? You'll shock me if you choose the obvious answer, which is logic.

                      Eighth Sentence..."Though I am sure from what you say, he may not be above bribery."
                      8 This is the only sentence where I could have been more specific. I had a thought but didn't explain it. Often an X that is better off will spend more and buy gifts and do things, they know the other parent is not capable of. This is nothing more than manipulation, to gain favor from the kids. It is a dirty trick hidden under the pretense of love. Both genders can be guilty of this, but in our culture that most often is the man, that has more resources.
                      See every gender has advantages and disadvantages. It doesn't make it right for them to use them. It just happens.

                      Now care to dissect anything else? This is ridiculous to have to go through sentence by sentence to keep from being mis quoted or misunderstood. It isn't my writing. You simply need to pay more attention and remove that animosity and emotion. To over react and mis everything else simply because someone has pissed you off or you don't agree, is childish. At the same time you are dulisional and can't even admit when you are wrong or corrected. I admit I do have biases, and may even express some of it, but I do not let it clog my brain
                      from being objective.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The truly funny part is that you think anyone actually reads your pages long diatribes.

                        What did Shakespeare say about "methinks he doth protest too much"?

                        How far do you have to stay away from your children?
                        Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

                        I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

                        Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          What would you know?

                          Originally posted by cyjeff View Post
                          The truly funny part is that you think anyone actually reads your pages long diatribes.

                          What did Shakespeare say about "methinks he doth protest too much"?

                          How far do you have to stay away from your children?
                          Hard to dispute what I wrote isn't it. Now that it is spelled it all out for your pea brain. IS that the best you could come back with? Totally off topic.
                          That is why you like some others can not comprehend. You do very little reading. Too much drama on TV. You mean your handicapped brain actually thought about anything? What ever it suits me fine!

                          Actually there no restrictions on me seeing my children. The one that lives here quite often. The other two are several states away and makes things difficult.

                          I see you are still making personal attacks because you have no experience that would give you knowledge about a given topic. You never answered any questions with any creditability.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by saxxyman View Post
                            Hard to dispute what I wrote isn't it. Now that it is spelled it all out for your pea brain. IS that the best you could come back with? Totally off topic.
                            That is why you like some others can not comprehend. You do very little reading. Too much drama on TV. You mean your handicapped brain actually thought about anything? What ever it suits me fine!

                            Actually there no restrictions on me seeing my children. The one that lives here quite often. The other two are several states away and makes things difficult.

                            I see you are still making personal attacks because you have no experience that would give you knowledge about a given topic. You never answered any questions with any creditability.
                            I have answered every question. Every one.

                            However, I don't need to read another 4K word rant of yours. You are confused... it isn't because we don't understand your big words... it's because you are hopelessly self important and BORING.

                            Let me summarize every single one of your rants.

                            All women lie about children being abused for divorce leverage. All children lie about being abused. The abusers are probably innocent. I am unbiased because I believe abusers are innocent.
                            Pretty close? Then let's throw in some pseudo science you read in "Abusive Father's Quarterly" that gives you either 1) a name for what you think the world is doing to you or 2) a reason that your children deserve the abuse you heap upon them. Either would work for you.

                            You are a broken record of nonsensical claims and the unadulterated hope that if you shout down everyone else, you must be right.

                            You didn't win. We're just bored at pointing out how very wrong you are. As I have said before, we don't have to win the fight here. Luckily, the courts agree with us... and disagree with you.
                            Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

                            I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

                            Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Fabrication

                              Originally posted by cyjeff View Post
                              I have answered every question. Every one.

                              However, I don't need to read another 4K word rant of yours. You are confused... it isn't because we don't understand your big words... it's because you are hopelessly self important and BORING.

                              Let me summarize every single one of your rants.



                              Pretty close? Then let's throw in some pseudo science you read in "Abusive Father's Quarterly" that gives you either 1) a name for what you think the world is doing to you or 2) a reason that your children deserve the abuse you heap upon them. Either would work for you.

                              You are a broken record of nonsensical claims and the unadulterated hope that if you shout down everyone else, you must be right.

                              You didn't win. We're just bored at pointing out how very wrong you are. As I have said before, we don't have to win the fight here. Luckily, the courts agree with us... and disagree with you.
                              ABSOLUTELY FALSE! You would know that if you could read and comprehend.
                              1 That is not my quote.

                              2 Not any post of mine have I said or implied "all". It is your assumption and is not based on any fact. Prove it. What # and post and exact sentence did you get that from? READ and get over your over emotional childish tantrum.

                              3 I do not have the time right now, but rest assured, I will go back and find the questions you did not answer and list them. Because you do not read, I doubt you will answer. I'll make it easy for your 1 grade attention span and leave off the editorializing, and just list the questions. Perhaps you can give a simple answer pertaining only to the question. Fair enough? Probably not, as most likely you are too afraid and will fall flat on your face. Will you admit your lie when I expose the questions you did not answer, that you claim to have?

                              4 As far as the courts all sides believe they are flawed, when it suits their agenda. No you do not have to win a fight. Neither do you have to act like you can read/comprehend or have any debating skills. You simply get judged on your own words. Oops sometimes you get judged by ones sensitivity rather than facts and obvious possibilities are ignored. All i have asked is people are not so quick to judge based on say so and pointed out that other scenarios are possible. Reminding you no one here has access to all the facts ( both sides stories and wittinesses), thus not knowing the exact scenario in the first place. You do have the right to disagree, but the question is: "do I also have that right, because I have experience/knowledge there is another side of the story?"

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                You have NO experience or knowledge of THIS situation. I quoted YOUR opening statements to this thread. You SPECIFICALLY stated that most often, women are guilty of parental alienation syndrome (which is wrong on 2 counts....one, the 'syndrome' is not a 'syndrome', and two, that's just a blatant fabricated excuse to try to convince a court to completely discount an abused child's or woman's testimony.)

                                You purposely threw that statement in to show how 'unbiased' you are and how open minded and flexible you are...so much so that you can admit that maybe, possibly that in this ONE instance, it's a man that is guilty of a non-existant syndrome. It's rare, but you guess it could happen.

                                In case you can't figure it out, nobody is fooled. You have made way too many statements and protests about how the courts and evil lying women are against you.
                                Last edited by mommyof4; 11-07-2007, 04:08 AM.
                                HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                                How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                                (unique up on him)
                                How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                                (same way)

                                Comment

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