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  • #46
    Originally posted by IsThisLegal
    Well, if these people are lawyers you might want to listen to what they say, on the other hand do you know if anyone on this site is actually a lawyer?
    There are many, and they have their specialties. Most of us have had many yeasr experience with the law, and can point you to places where you can find the information you are looking for.

    Originally posted by IsThisLegal
    Everyone should remember that this is a PUBLIC forum owned and maintained by an owner, he has the right to edit anything coming across the line, of course, people like me are apt to wonder why they are so afraid of opposite views.
    It is not opposing views, it is name calling, serial spaming and stalking that gets the ax. In the case mentioned, it was name calling and harassment

    Originally posted by IsThisLegal
    Does everyone who opposes the Moderators get wiped?
    Not at all. The moderator has frequently been oposed and has admitted to being wrong. That is why we appriciate her. She is extremely fair

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by IsThisLegal
      Well, if these people are lawyers you might want to listen to what they say, on the other hand do you know if anyone on this site is actually a lawyer?

      Everyone should remember that this is a PUBLIC forum owned and maintained by an owner, he has the right to edit anything coming across the line, of course, people like me are apt to wonder why they are so afraid of opposite views.

      Does everyone who opposes the Moderators get wiped?
      Jimbo's opinions were not wiped out because he disagreed with someone. They were removed due to the nature and caliber of the responses given.

      Flame wars are not very well received here.
      Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

      I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

      Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

      Comment


      • #48
        And just that easily, you suggest the OP goes against a court order?

        I agree that action must be taken. However, removing the child from the father without a legal paper trail could be considered illegal.

        I would think that would be just as obvious. Mom is going to have a really hard time saying she is the better custodial parent from prison.
        Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

        I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

        Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by jim_bo
          I tend to disagree. You guys flaming me seems to be quite well recieved.
          Since you tend to disagree with everything and everyone that doesn't drink your "Kool-Aid" with a passion normally reserved for Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, your posts take on an unusual bent.

          And, again, you suggest things that may be morally and ethically correct but are legally suspect.

          To suggest that the OP, who doesn't have the money or resources for an attorney today, can extract herself from the legal tangle you are insisting she embroil herself in is irresponsible.

          And that irresponsibility may, ultimately, lead the child to become the sole custody of the ex... and would thereby be in a much worse position than if we did it the legal way.

          You are suggesting the OP win the battle and hope to win the war later. That is not an effective strategy where children are concerned.
          Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

          I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

          Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

          Comment


          • #50
            Lawyers will identify themselves as such.

            Most of the rest of us go out of our way to state that we are NOT attorneys.
            Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

            I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

            Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by jim_bo
              Dude (I know you like that word), you are being quite mellowdramatic. Mom is NOT going to jail if she is taking reasonable action to protect her son. As a matter of fact, Mom would NOT be going to jail even if she was just being arbitrary. A judge just isn't going to do that.

              By the way... you keep making this argument about violating a court order when the OP's original post only suggests that no order exists! Are you just trying to be argumentative?
              Can you be 100% sure that if the mother takes the child away from the home without a court order that she will not suffer consequences for it in a court of law?

              Can you assure her that some judge will not see her act of denying agreed upon visitation as negative to the proceedings?

              And yes, if the father believes that the mother has removed the child from him without cause he could file a charge up to and including kidnapping against the mother. Whoops... theres that prison thing again.

              I am not saying the charges would stick... they probably wouldn't... but the defense of those charges would deplete what little resources she has left and would, again, leave a bad taste in the judge's mouth.

              Why are you so against doing this by the numbers? Or are you just trying to be argumentative?
              Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

              I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

              Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by jim_bo
                That's fine. You have your opinion and I have mine. You are not changing my mind and I am not changing yours. I get it.

                But the thing that bugs me is why do you and your cohorts feel compelled to attack me for my opinions? Are you suggesting that the OP is too incompetent to read two differing opinions and make a choice for herself? If you suggest black and I suggest white, let the OP decide. She may decide to take parts of all suggestions and choose grey. For you to attack me for having a different opinion and implying that the OP should only consider what you have to say is irresponsible.

                Jimbo
                Because if your suggestion is followed and if she loses custody because of it, it will be a tragedy that did not need to happen.
                Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

                I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

                Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by jim_bo
                  And if your suggestion is followed and the child is injured, will that be any less tragic? Is your whole life this one dimensional?
                  A personal attack? How unusual for you.

                  A few days of risk to prevent the ex from becoming the custodial parent is worth the risk. Your way saves the child for a few days until the child is returned to dad.

                  And if you don't believe that crazy parents won't swear out kidnapping charges on the other parent when they refuse to return the child to agreed upon visitation, you really haven't been reading these boards very much.
                  Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

                  I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

                  Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Cyjeff said that if Mom takes the kid without cause, then Dad could possibly file a kidnapping case against her, to which jimbo replied:

                    "OK... that is just rediculous. You are really stretching now."

                    Please, without the need to tell me that my poor children are doomed or that I am an intolerable human being incapable of independent thought, please explain WHY that is ridiculous. Seriously. I want to know. In an actual answer, not a firestorm of insults on my ability to mother my children or rope in a man.

                    Assume there is NO court ordered visitation. Dad still has rights. As YOU pointed out on an earlier post, since he signed the birth certificate, and there is no court-ordered visitation in place, Dad has the exact same rights as Mom. He's always been in the child's life, and he has had the child in his home (at mom's request) for four months. It seems perfectly reasonable that, at this point, if mom took the kid and refused to let Dad see him again, then Dad would have some legal recourse.

                    Mom doesn't automatically trump Dad. Isn't your own case proof of that?

                    You keep talking about her using her judgment, but you also said of her, "This woman needs to grow the hell up and quit acting like a politically correct, spineless little weenie."

                    I am not arguing with you. I told Mom over and over that she needed to have a REASONABLE fear that her child was in danger, and by her own example (Dad and his girlfriend fight, and once someone called the cops), her fears were not reasonable.

                    So again I ask, why is it ridiculous that Dad could take legal action against Mom? I am honsestly looking for an answer.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      If there is no court order (which we STILL haven't recieved an answer...and if we did, this discussion could be brought to a close) there are no legal charges either parent could be charged with. The only thing that could be done is to file for a custody order to force the return of the child to whichever parent.

                      If there is a court order, there is a possibilty of criminal charges, although, unless the child was removed from the state and/or country, the charges would most likely be custodial interference (or the equivalent) as opposed to "kidnapping", depending on the state. Change of custody, fines, community service, supervised visitation, restricted visitation, and jail time are possible consequences. I am just too lazy right now to look at the actual statute for this particular poster, as we don't know whether there is an order or not (although, I tend to think not).

                      Here's the bottom line...if there is no custody order, one needs to be obtained immediately to solve this issue (not necessarily with the result she is hoping to obtain). It is a very stupid move to take the child from the child's home and environment before a custody order is granted, because as you said, it will not be in the OP's favor to go into court and tell the judge, "I changed my mind because I don't think the girlfriend is a good person around my son." (I especially love the fact that she cited the GF as the problem with the police when her ex, the child's father, was 50% of that fight....what she doesn't say says more than what she does.) However, as stupid as it may be, there is nothing LEGALLY to stop her from doing so. She just needs to be aware that unless that child is truly in danger, it is poor strategy. The odds of her retaining custody once this gets to court are slim, as the child does have an established life, home, and routine that she blithely ignored to gain her own agenda, especially as she has no way to adequately provide support and stability for the child.
                      Last edited by mommyof4; 12-28-2006, 07:41 AM.
                      HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                      How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                      (unique up on him)
                      How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                      (same way)

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Well, it just so happens that your "opinion" in a couple of cases amounts to really bad advice. Both this one and the other thread, your opinion, if followed, will lead to bigger, more problematic legal issues.

                        We don't have to like your opinion, as you do not have to like ours. However, I did NOT attack you on the other thread. I stated ONE fact about your history on this board. Do you deny it? That does NOT mean that just because you are sensitive to people not kowtowing to your superior, enlightened knowledge, we must all be careful to keep our opinions to ourselves. That's the nature of discussion and debate. If you cannot handle it in a mature, sensible manner, then do not engage in any form of debate.
                        HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                        How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                        (unique up on him)
                        How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                        (same way)

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I just took a class on this, if there is a court order, kidnapping charges cannot be filed, only interfering with child custody. If there isn't a custody order then you can file kidnapping charges if one parent takes the child away from the parent with whom the child resides primarily.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by gardner58 View Post
                            I just took a class on this, if there is a court order, kidnapping charges cannot be filed, only interfering with child custody. If there isn't a custody order then you can file kidnapping charges if one parent takes the child away from the parent with whom the child resides primarily.
                            Except in the states where if paternity is established, but no custody order is in effect, both parents are viewed by the court to have equal rights to the child. (as I stated before, Va comes immediately to mind. When I read the statutes, it shocked the holy hell out of me.)
                            HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                            How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                            (unique up on him)
                            How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                            (same way)

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by jim_bo
                              Really?? And by what authority do you make such absolute statements? Is it your many years of practicing family law? Is it the JD degree that you hold? Or is it your position on the Supreme Court?

                              The bottom line is... you have no realistic basis to determine whether my advice is good or bad. You can only say that you have a different opinion. I base my opinions on similiar situations that I have been involved in personally, the advice I recieved from my attorneys, and the results of following that advice. But even so, it is merely my opinion. Yours is NO better.



                              That's just my point. The OP did not make the orignial post to witness our debate!! She posted to solicit differing opinions!! This was never intended to be a debate. If you would like to engage in a debate, start your own thread and invite me to it. We can debate all day long. However, I don't believe the OP really gained much from you and your cohorts "debating" your opinions here.

                              Jimbo
                              Well, you know, except for the correct information (not advice) I posted. Would you like to see a link to a thread of what can happen for defying a court order? Granted, it's not the same situation. No, it's much worse. A mother was sentenced to 30 days in jail (suspended) for not forcing her children to write and send pictures to their father who WAS IN PRISON FOR MOLESTING ONE OF THE CHILDREN. It happens every single day. The statutes are very clear. Would you like a link to all 50 states' statutes?
                              HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                              How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                              (unique up on him)
                              How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                              (same way)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by jim_bo
                                No, I would like for you to recognize that each case has its individual merrits. That's why differing opinions are valuable to the OP. Obviously in the case you cite, disobeying a court order was a bad idea. However, in my case, disobeying a court order was NOT a bad idea and it was even recognized as such by the court. Would you like a link to the court order that verifies this?

                                You have still offered nothing that suggests that your "one size fits all" perspective is the only right answer and the OP's should reject all other opinions as a result. I still say you insult the intellegence of the OP's by not recognizing their ability to apply differing opinions to their situation and decide for themselves.

                                Jimbo
                                Okay, let's look at this from your perspective. Let's assume (erroneously, propbably, but whatever) that there is a court order in effect granting residential or physical custody to the father. The mother, who has no job, no viable prospects for a job, and no home takes the child because she doesn't feel that the father's gf is a good person to be around her child. Now, there is nothing in the court order that dictates that the parents may not have an unrelated guest of the opposite sex spend the night while the child is in residence (and yes, that must be in the court order before it is enforceable)...There are no signs of abuse, trauma, danger, neglect, etc. What do you think a court is going to say?

                                You need to recognize that not every case is like yours. Not every parent gives the court such an easy path to follow. I never said it was illegal to remove the child if there is no court order. I said it is stupid if the only basis she has for doing so is because she doesn't like the girlfriend. If you disagree, fine. But, I am tired of you and your intense need to express yourself continuously, over and over. I am done. I have now given reasonable explanations for every counterpoint to your opinions, when really, I didn't need to. I am putting you on ignore so that I no longer have to deal with your incessant need for attention.
                                HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                                How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                                (unique up on him)
                                How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                                (same way)

                                Comment

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