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Arizona -- Child Visitation and Support

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  • Arizona -- Child Visitation and Support

    Hi -

    Let me tell you that many of you man think that I am a dead beat father, but I am not.. Let me tell you my side of the story, and then you can tell me what you think.

    My wife (ex) and I got a divorce about 20 mos ago, and since then I have only see my son 3 times for a total of 5 hrs because my ex-wife.

    Let me tell you why I have not see my son... I am not blamming everything on her, but mostly her.. I am a responsible man, I believe so anyway.

    During our marriage, I have been violent, IE throwing things, banging down doors, and being very verbal. I have never hit her, or thrown anything at her, or my son. I am telling you this now, for it comes into play at the end of this post. We got divorced, and she took full custody of my son, and both cars.

    Well, I have several times to see my son, and she tells me that in order to see him, I would need to drive to a small city where her parents live, and I can see them there, with her, and parents. She says thats where she feels comfortable, and safe.. Well, when I go there to see my son, I feel like I am babysitting him, and not being a father. I know that part of being a father is babysit, but he runs around the house like a chicken with his head cut off, and getting into trouble, and I have to be stern with him, and tell him no to this and no to that, and no to everything.

    So I told her that I don't feel comfortable to see my son in that environment, and that if I wanted to see him else where I would have to get supervised visitation thru the courts.. and I told her why? its not ordered, she said that she is afraid that I would hurt or steal him away from her.. I told her that if that is what she wanted then she should go and try to file that in court. She said she would, but I have never heard anything from that.

    I have mad several attempts to see my son, and will not budge, and she says

    I can't believe you think living in one place for 6 months at time shows stabilitiy. How long have you been at your job? Do you have a job? Whats your home address? Where do you work? You move around, you quit your jobs or get fired. How is that showing maturity and stability? I lived with you for 3 years, I know how you are Steve. Being a Dad isn't just when you feel like it. Chance is 3 and 1/2 now and he is way more of a handful now then he was then. Its going to take more than a nice email to show me that you are making a effort to be a good human being.

    Start being more forth comming with your address and place of employment. If you change, you need to tell me. You start being honest with me then we can work out a visit plan. You need to show me by your actions not your words.
    I have never had a stable job, or place to live since the divorce. My job moved me to Vegas, where I was suppose to work, then I had to move back to AZ, because I missed my son, and other reasons. So I moved back, and stayed with a friend until I got my own place. This should have no effect on weather or not, that I am allowed to see my son, or not, but she says it does.. I have been in and out of employment, and I have not been able to pay the court ordered child support of 800 a mo for my 1 son who is 3. I am barely making as it is. I have to pay car payment, rent and all utilities, I don't have any luxurious at all.. I do have a computer, that is a laptop, but thats all I have.

    Well, I just got a garnishment of wages from the state for 3 quaters of my check now, and I can't even pay my bills, and etc, so what should I do? I could use any advice.. Do you guys think I am a Dead Beat Father? Please be honest.. I want to hear what you guys are saying..

  • #2
    Before I answer anything...is there an existing custody/visitation order in place? If so, what does it state?
    HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
    How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
    (unique up on him)
    How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
    (same way)

    Comment


    • #3
      Mommyof4

      thank you for responding... Well on the divorce decree it states "Reasonable visitation", and on the child support order it states that I am paying for 52 days of visitation, I think... since I cant find them.

      And this is filed in AZ

      Comment


      • #4
        Your court order has nothing more specific than reasonable visitation? No times, days of the week, etc? There is a reason I am asking for specifics.

        You need to understand that your child support order has nothing to do with visitation (except as your visitation time may be used in calculations for the support amount). It does not give you any legal right to visitation.
        HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
        How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
        (unique up on him)
        How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
        (same way)

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, I understand that child support has nothing to do with visitation.

          The divorce decree has nothing more in there about times, if you would like to see the whole divorce decree, then let me know, and I will scan a copy in or something. She got a default divorce, because I did not fight because we was in both agreement, then all of the sudden, since I did not reply, she changed everything and stuck me with 800/mo child support instead of 350/mo, not sure why the change, no income changed or anything.. only thing changed was child care... for some reason child care jumped up... but that is a different issue.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sgerbitz View Post
            Hi -

            Let me tell you that many of you man think that I am a dead beat father, but I am not.. Let me tell you my side of the story, and then you can tell me what you think.

            My wife (ex) and I got a divorce about 20 mos ago, and since then I have only see my son 3 times for a total of 5 hrs because my ex-wife.

            Let me tell you why I have not see my son... I am not blamming everything on her, but mostly her.. I am a responsible man, I believe so anyway.

            During our marriage, I have been violent, IE throwing things, banging down doors, and being very verbal. I have never hit her, or thrown anything at her, or my son. I am telling you this now, for it comes into play at the end of this post. We got divorced, and she took full custody of my son, and both cars.

            Well, I have several times to see my son, and she tells me that in order to see him, I would need to drive to a small city where her parents live, and I can see them there, with her, and parents. She says thats where she feels comfortable, and safe.. Well, when I go there to see my son, I feel like I am babysitting him, and not being a father. I know that part of being a father is babysit, but he runs around the house like a chicken with his head cut off, and getting into trouble, and I have to be stern with him, and tell him no to this and no to that, and no to everything.

            So I told her that I don't feel comfortable to see my son in that environment, and that if I wanted to see him else where I would have to get supervised visitation thru the courts.. and I told her why? its not ordered, she said that she is afraid that I would hurt or steal him away from her.. I told her that if that is what she wanted then she should go and try to file that in court. She said she would, but I have never heard anything from that.

            I have mad several attempts to see my son, and will not budge, and she says



            I have never had a stable job, or place to live since the divorce. My job moved me to Vegas, where I was suppose to work, then I had to move back to AZ, because I missed my son, and other reasons. So I moved back, and stayed with a friend until I got my own place. This should have no effect on weather or not, that I am allowed to see my son, or not, but she says it does.. I have been in and out of employment, and I have not been able to pay the court ordered child support of 800 a mo for my 1 son who is 3. I am barely making as it is. I have to pay car payment, rent and all utilities, I don't have any luxurious at all.. I do have a computer, that is a laptop, but thats all I have.

            Well, I just got a garnishment of wages from the state for 3 quaters of my check now, and I can't even pay my bills, and etc, so what should I do? I could use any advice.. Do you guys think I am a Dead Beat Father? Please be honest.. I want to hear what you guys are saying..
            You need to file to modify the visiation order, it needs to specify the days/times. The wording "reasonable visitation" is usually just a disaster waiting to happen.

            Be prepared though for the possibility of supervision being ordered, because you do have a history of violent behavior. I know that you might feel like it was never that bad because you never threw things at, or actually hit them. Believe me, I learned the hard way, that is still a violent behavior. I am bi polar, I've had some pretty serious manic episodes where I would throw things across the room, etc. Like you, I always though it wasn't violent because I would never throw things at a person, or hit another person. (usually I'd turn my anger on myself- I've even pulled my own hair out to keep from throwing something at my ex). Through counseling I learned that my "non violent" behavior was just as violent and just as damaging as someone who actually hits another person. Basically, I'm not proud of my past behaviour, but I'm telling this so that you'll understand that you do have a problem and that supervised visitation is going to be a very real possibility for you.

            Are they garnishing more than 55% to 65% of your net pay? If they are you MIGHT need to go to court to modify the support order (depending on why the order is more than the federally allowed amount). Go to http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/#TITLES to read the consumer credit protection act regarding garnishments. Title 15 Chapter 41.

            Comment


            • #7
              Okay, you are going to have to file in court to modify the custody/visitation agreement before you can do anything. If there are no specifics listed, then it will be virtually impossible to file for contempt against her. Reasonable visitation, without any default visitation listed, is very vague. As she has nothing to lose by letting the order stand as stated, she will not be filing anything. (I wouldn't if it were me)

              www.supportguidelines.com

              Here is a link for the support guidelines in all 50 states. There are limits to how much you can be ordered to pay (percentage wise). I will have to read your state statutes and it will take a while, but you can read them for yourself. If after reading the legal statutes, you child support order is above what the statutes allow, you need to contact CSE. You need to get a copy of your child support order so that you know without a doubt what you are dealing with.
              ---------------------
              Now, onto the personal advice.

              I can completely understand where she is coming from if you have not been forthcoming and open with her. You do need to give her your address, phone number, employment information, etc. She has a right to know where your son is (if she does allow visitation). I had these same concerns. My court order specifically states that my daughter's father may not remover her from his specific address without my knowledge and consent at any time. (Yes, there were some very serious issues). If I do not have a current and valid address and phone number, there is no visitaiton. Now, I am not saying that you will be held to the same exacting standards, but you WILL be required to keep her updated with correct information. (Look at it this way...would you be okay with her taking your son to God knows where with no way for you to find them???).

              You need to do whatever you can to settle down and keep a job. (even if that means that you are working at a grocery store, McD's, gas station, whatever). The only way you will ever ease her concerns (and I am sorry to say that you have given her reason to be very uneasy) is to show her over time, by being transparent, that she can trust you with the person that is most important to her. I am NOT saying that I think you are a threat or a danger to your child. I don't know you, so I can't say. I am just giving you her perspective. I don't think she has been unreasonable. I think you need to open up alot more and earn her trust back.
              HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
              How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
              (unique up on him)
              How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
              (same way)

              Comment


              • #8
                Xena, I was typing my novel while you were posting!!!
                HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                (unique up on him)
                How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                (same way)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mommyof4 View Post
                  I can completely understand where she is coming from if you have not been forthcoming and open with her. You do need to give her your address, phone number, employment information, etc. She has a right to know where your son is (if she does allow visitation). I had these same concerns. My court order specifically states that my daughter's father may not remover her from his specific address without my knowledge and consent at any time. (Yes, there were some very serious issues). If I do not have a current and valid address and phone number, there is no visitaiton. Now, I am not saying that you will be held to the same exacting standards, but you WILL be required to keep her updated with correct information. (Look at it this way...would you be okay with her taking your son to God knows where with no way for you to find them???).

                  You need to do whatever you can to settle down and keep a job. (even if that means that you are working at a grocery store, McD's, gas station, whatever). The only way you will ever ease her concerns (and I am sorry to say that you have given her reason to be very uneasy) is to show her over time, by being transparent, that she can trust you with the person that is most important to her. I am NOT saying that I think you are a threat or a danger to your child. I don't know you, so I can't say. I am just giving you her perspective. I don't think she has been unreasonable. I think you need to open up alot more and earn her trust back.
                  Thank you for answering some of my questions.. I have told her everything, and try to keep her up to date, but she is very hard to get a hold of, and I send her like 20 emails, and I only get 1 email back, she has not told me her address or phone number either.

                  I dont like her games, and It is very angry to me, to have to go thru this..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sgerbitz View Post
                    Thank you for answering some of my questions.. I have told her everything, and try to keep her up to date, but she is very hard to get a hold of, and I send her like 20 emails, and I only get 1 email back, she has not told me her address or phone number either.

                    I dont like her games, and It is very angry to me, to have to go thru this..
                    Okay, when you file for modification of the order, you need to include that both of you will be required to provide the other with current and valid address, phone #, etc. Just as you will have to abide by the order, so will she. That's the only recourse you have.

                    I have to ask this, and please don't take it wrong..there is not a protective order against you, is there?
                    Last edited by mommyof4; 12-06-2006, 09:07 AM.
                    HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                    How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                    (unique up on him)
                    How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                    (same way)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mommyof4 View Post
                      Xena, I was typing my novel while you were posting!!!
                      I though I was writing a novel with my response.

                      BTW- Son goes to court in 30 minutes, will let you know what happens.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mommyof4 View Post
                        I have to ask this, and please don't take it wrong..there is not a protective order against you, is there?

                        She had filed an Order Of Protection, but we talked everything out and she got it "Quashed"

                        So currently there is not.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sgerbitz View Post
                          She had filed an Order Of Protection, but we talked everything out and she got it "Quashed"

                          So currently there is not.
                          Okay, then my original advise stands. (about the address info)
                          HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                          How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                          (unique up on him)
                          How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                          (same way)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by xena View Post
                            I though I was writing a novel with my response.

                            BTW- Son goes to court in 30 minutes, will let you know what happens.
                            My fingers and toes are crossed. Prayers winging your way...
                            HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                            How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                            (unique up on him)
                            How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                            (same way)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mommyof4 View Post
                              Okay, then my original advise stands. (about the address info)
                              Do you think, I will have to have it supervised? would I have to pay for that? or what happens in supervised visitation? I am just trying to be prepared.

                              Nobody did answer my main question... about being a dead beat father.

                              Comment

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