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Dock 15 min pay for 1 min late? California California

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  • Dock 15 min pay for 1 min late? California California

    Can an employer dock and employee 15 minutes of pay for being 1 minute late? This is a timeclock based system and employer will dock 15 minutes of of pay for each 1-14 minutes late. Also, if an employee clocks out 1-14 minutes after his/her shift,the employer does not 'round up' to the nearest 15 minute interval. Is this legal? I think employees are losing money for working 1-14 minutes without pay. This is in California.

  • #2
    Yes its legal
    http://www.parentnook.com/forum/

    Comment


    • #3
      Don't think it's legal. Time can be rounded (up to 15 minutes), but it cannot always be in the employer's favor. Here is a link:
      http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Ti...9CFR785.48.htm

      Where I work, clocks are programmed so that the rounding is equitable. For example, if the employee works an extra 5 minutes that is not paid, and if they leave 5 minutes early, they are paid because the time is rounded up or down. It can't always round to pay them less.

      Employers need to be careful about punishing tardies with loss of pay. The issues need to be separated. Employee may be 1 minute late, which could could lead to disciplinary action, but you employer cannot refuse to pay for their first 15 minutes or 1 hour or whatever. They pay, then discipline.

      Comment


      • #4
        Its clear pay is based on quarter hours. If your late one minute its 15 mins pay. This mean the shift start time is now 15 minutes later. Now on other side pay is base din 15 mins if a worker clock sout 14 mins late he/she did not work the 15 mins late and thus collect 15 mins overtime. Solution show up on time and leave on time
        http://www.parentnook.com/forum/

        Comment


        • #5
          That isn't what OP said. "Also, if an employee clocks out 1-14 minutes after his/her shift,the employer does not 'round up' to the nearest 15 minute interval."

          It sounds like if the employee comes to work 1 minute late (and it's a usual 8 hours), they are only paid 7 hours, 45 minutes. If, instead, they clock out 14 minutes late, they are only paid 8 hours. It must not always round to the employer's favor per Federal and CA law. If the OP came in on time for 3 days and on each day worked 14 minutes past the end of the usual shift, that would add up to 42 minutes of unpaid time in that 3 days. That is substantial and therefore isn't legal.

          CA comes down very hard on employers who do this.

          Comment


          • #6
            If this "rounding" practice adds up to more than a few hours, I would just file a wage claim with DLSE: http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/HowToFileWageClaim.htm

            I have worked with employers in cases where they rounded as you described and they very seldom win. They usually lose, then implement a more equitable "rounding" practice.

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            • #7
              Panther, the law allows rounding to the nearest quarter hour, not, in quarter hour increments. There's a difference.
              The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

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              • #8
                Ok, I'm a bit confused. If an employer gives a demerit for 1 minute late AND docks pay 15 minutes without the opportunity to make up that 1 minute after work, then it's illegal, right? This employer does not round up at the end of a shift but rounds down 15 minutes when clocking in. I can understand if the employee is late then note the tardy (1 minute really is pushing "tardy" if you ask me, but that is another posting). I read the link: http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Ti...9CFR785.48.htm
                and it states: ..."there has been the practice for many years of recording the employees' starting time and stopping time to the nearest 5 minutes, or to the nearest one-tenth or quarter of an hour. Presumably, this arrangement averages out so that the employees are fully compensated for all the time they actually work."

                If the employer is requiring the employee to work the first 14 minutes of their shift for no pay, then where should that 14 minutes of compensation come from? I'm a bit confused on this issue.

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                • #9
                  Yes, the way the employer is rounding time is illegal. The tardy issue is completely separate. They can discipline you, including termination, for being even 1 minute late. But, they must pay correctly for all time worked and a rounding process as described is not legal.

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                  • #10
                    Agree with cbg and martinigirl. The rounding method is illegal. The disciplinary action is legal.
                    I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by cbg View Post
                      Panther, the law allows rounding to the nearest quarter hour, not, in quarter hour increments. There's a difference.
                      I admit cbg knows much more about this than I but my experience as an employee in CA for 30+ years with various employers clocking out 14 minutes later never equated to 15 minutes overtime or additional pay. That is what my answer was based on
                      http://www.parentnook.com/forum/

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                      • #12
                        The employers might have gotten away with it because no employees filed a wage claim, but it doesn't mean it's legal.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks Everyone!

                          One more question: Can an employee request the employer to furnish time-keeping records so the employee can compare their time worked versus their hours paid?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The employee can request it, but I don't believe the employer is obligated to comply. Patty? DAW?
                            The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, in CA the employer must provide this information upon request. Link: http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_Paydays.htm


                              From that link:

                              Am I entitled to see my payroll records?


                              A. Yes. Your payroll records must be made available to you upon reasonable request, which request must be complied with by your employer as soon as practicable, but no later than 21 calendar days from the date you make such request. Effective January 1, 2003, a failure by the employer to permit a current or former employee to inspect or copy his or her payroll records within the 21 day period entitles the current or former employee to recover a $750.00 penalty from the employer in a civil action brought before a court of competent jurisdiction. Additionally, pursuant to Labor Code Section 226(a), every time you are paid your wages, whether by check, in cash, or otherwise, you must be given a detachable part of the check or a separate writing showing:
                              Gross wages earned
                              Total hours worked (not required for salaried exempt employees)
                              The number of piece-rate units earned and any applicable piece rate if the employee is paid on a piece rate basis
                              All deductions (all deductions made on written orders of the employee may be aggregated and shown as one item)
                              Net wages earned
                              The inclusive dates of the period for which the employee is paid
                              The name of the employee and his or her social security number
                              The name and address of the legal entity that is the employer
                              All applicable hourly rates in effect during the pay period, and the corresponding number of hours worked at each hourly rate by the employee


                              I would assume that records from the timekeeping system used to determine the total hours paid would be part of what the employee could request to see.

                              Comment

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