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Need Help with Overtime Law for 4/10 Schedule for working 7 days in a row California

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  • Need Help with Overtime Law for 4/10 Schedule for working 7 days in a row California

    Hello All,

    I've been searching all over the interest for an answer and can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Hoping someone on here can assist me. Here is the scenerio.

    Our Techs our on a 4/10 schedule. This week one of my guys may work 7 days in a row. I'm confused on the 5th-7th day how the overtime is calculated and when it goes into double time outside the standard work over 12 hours law. Here is an example of my techs schedule this week. Please help me with the overtime calculation:

    M T W TH FR SAT SUN
    11 10 9 12 3 10 10

    I understanding the Mon-Thur overtime requirements but confused on how FR-Sun works.

    Any help and tips would be greatly appreciated!!

  • #2
    Starting point is the workweek. The workweek is a federal law (FLSA) concept applicable in all states (including CA). Basically the employer is legally required to pick a formal workweek unrelated to shifts and schedules that is intended to static (unchanging) over time. The legal default in CA is workweeks ending Sunday midnight, although employers can and do change this. Every employee in the U.S. without exception has a fixed legally defined workweek. Employers are not required to use the same workweek definition for all of their employees but most of them do. My last 4 employers all used workweeks ending Sunday midnight.

    While CA must use the federal workweek rules, CA also has daily OT rules. The federal workweek defines the CA workweek. Assuming the workweek ends Sunday midnight then the workdays also end at midnight.

    Example. Bob's workweek ends Sunday midnight. Bob starts work at 07:30 PM Sunday, takes lunch 11:30 PM - midnight, then completes work Monday 04:00 AM. This is two different workweeks and two different workdays. Think of a table with several rows of seven pockets per row. The 4 hours worked on Sunday end up in the #7 pocket in workweek #1, while the last 4 hours worked on Monday end up in the #1 pocket in workweek #2.

    Everything you need to know can be found at the following fact sheet.
    http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_Overtime.htm
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
    Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

    Comment


    • #3
      The week our tech works will be ONE work week. Our work week's are Mon-Sun. I've looked on the link you gave me but still am confused on how it applied to the 4/10 schedule.

      Comment


      • #4
        OK, I am taking your word that the workweek ends Sunday midnight. If you got that wrong, then my answer is wrong.

        M T W TH FR SAT SUN
        11 10 9 12 3 10 10


        Mon 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 3 hrs @ 150% RRP
        Tue 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 2 hrs @ 150% RRP
        Wed 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 1 hrs @ 150% RRP
        Thu 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 4 hrs @ 150% RRP
        Fri 3 hrs @ 100% RRP.
        Sat 5 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 5 hrs @ 150% RRP
        Sun 8 hrs @ 150% RRP, and 2 hrs @ 200% RRP
        "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
        Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DAW View Post
          OK, I am taking your word that the workweek ends Sunday midnight. If you got that wrong, then my answer is wrong.

          M T W TH FR SAT SUN
          11 10 9 12 3 10 10


          Mon 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 3 hrs @ 150% RRP
          Tue 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 2 hrs @ 150% RRP
          Wed 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 1 hrs @ 150% RRP
          Thu 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 4 hrs @ 150% RRP
          Fri 3 hrs @ 100% RRP.
          Sat 5 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 5 hrs @ 150% RRP
          Sun 8 hrs @ 150% RRP, and 2 hrs @ 200% RRP
          His regular work week in 4 10 hours day. Did you base your answer off 5 8 hour days.

          Thanks for repluying by the way!

          Comment


          • #6
            I based my answer on the law. The law (FLSA) is very clear that a "workweek" is a 168 period on time (24 hours times 7 days in the workweek) that is legally unrelate to shifts and schedules. Legally there is not such thing as a "40 hour workweek".

            I previously cited the CA overtime factsheet, which you apparently choose to not read. If you had, you would have found the following:

            workweek
            Any seven consecutive days, starting with the same calendar day each week beginning at any hour on any day, so long as it is fixed and regularly occurring. "Workweek" is a fixed and regularly recurring period of 168 hours, seven consecutive 24-hour periods. An employer may establish different workweeks for different employees, but once an employee's workweek is established, it remains fixed regardless of his or her working schedule. An employee's workweek may be changed only if the change is intended to be permanent and is not designed to evade the employer's overtime obligation.
            Is there any chance I can get you to actually read the factsheet?
            "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
            Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DAW View Post
              I based my answer on the law. The law (FLSA) is very clear that a "workweek" is a 168 period on time (24 hours times 7 days in the workweek) that is legally unrelate to shifts and schedules. Legally there is not such thing as a "40 hour workweek".

              I previously cited the CA overtime factsheet, which you apparently choose to not read. If you had, you would have found the following:



              Is there any chance I can get you to actually read the factsheet?
              First of all I don't need you to be rude. If you don't have anything nice to say don't bother to post. Our company voted on a alternate schedule work week (which is permanent) so for our specific company we don't pay overtime until after 10 hours per day, because like I said the techs work 4 10's. All I needed to know what if the rule for overtime after 40 hours is different because we are on a alternate schedule than if we were on the normal 8/5 schedule.

              Comment


              • #8
                Even I could figure this out. And I am not a payroll person.

                DAW is clear. In your case, substitute 10 for 8 in the first four days, and take it from there.

                He was firm, and not rude. Your information is free.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't see where DAW was rude either. Also, you don't get to choose who replies/
                  posts to your thread.
                  Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

                  Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Count me among those who do not see any rudeness in DAW's reply. And if you wanted him to consider a 4/10 schedule you should have told him and not left him to make assumptions. Neither he nor anyone else here is a mindreader and do not know anything about your situation that you do not tell us.
                    The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I read the material he gave me. (which didn't answer my question for my specific situation). He was nice enough to give an example of the overtime but then I asked him if he based it on a standard work schedule vs my 4/10 schedule which I did state in my original post. I did not expect him to be a mind reader when I put the "4/10" situation in my original post. I appreciated his help but didn't appreciate being told that I choose not to read the material (which I did) and quote it like I'm a idiot & now I have the "forum" police with nothing better to do comment all over this thread.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DAW View Post
                        OK, I am taking your word that the workweek ends Sunday midnight. If you got that wrong, then my answer is wrong.

                        M T W TH FR SAT SUN
                        11 10 9 12 3 10 10


                        Mon 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 3 hrs @ 150% RRP
                        Tue 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 2 hrs @ 150% RRP
                        Wed 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 1 hrs @ 150% RRP
                        Thu 8 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 4 hrs @ 150% RRP
                        Fri 3 hrs @ 100% RRP.
                        Sat 5 hrs @ 100% RRP, and 5 hrs @ 150% RRP
                        Sun 8 hrs @ 150% RRP, and 2 hrs @ 200% RRP
                        I disagree with the above. If the employee is working a LEGAL 4/10 workweek then I would pay as follows.

                        M - 10 reg 1 OT
                        T - 10 reg
                        W - 9 reg
                        Th - 10 reg 2 OT
                        F - 1 reg 2 OT
                        S - 10 OT
                        S - 8 OT 2DT
                        Am I missing something?
                        Last edited by christamcd; 02-10-2011, 01:40 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by christamcd View Post
                          I disagree with the above. If the employee is working a LEGAL 4/10 workweek then I would pay as follows.

                          M - 10 reg 1 OT
                          T - 10 reg
                          W - 9 reg
                          Th - 10 reg 2 OT
                          F - 1 reg 2 OT
                          S - 10 OT
                          S - 10 OT

                          Am I missing something?
                          Thanks for this reply. I thought maybe Friday would be all overtime because the M-Th reg + overtime = over 40 hours. Then I was wondering if the Sat & Sun hours would contain any doubletime. If it were a 5/8 schedule the law states "all hours worked in excess of eight on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek would be doubletime" So what I'm confused about is 8 hours on the last day reg time & 2 hours double time OR is it a different situation because our employee's Legally agreed to 10 hour days?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This "forum police" will let you figure it out yourself.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by atarantino View Post
                              So what I'm confused about is 8 hours on the last day reg time & 2 hours double time OR is it a different situation because our employee's Legally agreed to 10 hour days?
                              No you are right, I reread the 7th-day overtime rule and I would pay 2 hours double time on the 7th day.

                              Comment

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