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What is an employee to do when CA DLSE doesn't follow it's own guidelines?

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  • What is an employee to do when CA DLSE doesn't follow it's own guidelines?

    What is an employee to do when the CA DLSE doesn't follow it's own guidelines when determining claims? I don't understand - and I can read in books and online what they are supposed to go by. Do I complain to federal dir? It's exhausting fighting and providing evidence if they ignore it.
    Is the system set up so they only listen to appeals or are they just dismissing everything unless it's a class action?

  • #2
    I assume you mean the Federal DOL, and no, you do not go to them as they have no jurisdiction over state laws.

    What is it you think the DLSE is doing wrong?
    The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

    Comment


    • #3
      Claim for what? If it's unemployment appeals, it's the EDD, not the DLSE.
      I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.

      Comment


      • #4
        reference http://www.laborlawtalk.com/showthread.php?t=270967
        Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

        Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

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        • #5
          Betty, you are so good!
          The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

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          • #6
            http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Glossary.asp?Button1=A

            To answer your question:
            In part,
            they didn't follow their own definition of an Admin Exemption and didn't even go by these guidelines for determination.
            http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Glossary.asp?Button1=A

            any advice on what to do would be great. thanks.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by cbg View Post
              Betty, you are so good!
              I have my "moments" as we all do.
              Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

              Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't know who you complain to - maybe attorney general? Hold & maybe someone will know - maybe a poster from Ca.
                Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

                Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am from CA, but I really am not following the question. Would it be possible to briefly restate the question? Something stand alone, maybe with some actual facts.
                  "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
                  Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Appealing

                    to rephrase:
                    How do I convince the DLSE when writing a strong appeal -if they didn't even follow their own guidelines (as posted on the link) for the initial meeting? Facts: Employer said I was exempt; we met with dlse to determine -where employer should have had the burden of proof; dlse didn't ask any questions as they purtain to said guidelines (to find out if I met the tests for exemption) - the employer didn't have to prove any independent judgement nor much else. the only test i met was the salary test. however, dlse "closed" the case, although I never received the official letter. I have the full file on the claim which also shows some untrue statements by the employer - such as I set my own hours.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OK. Two different issues then:
                      - Have you downloaded a copy of the CA-DLSE manual and read the related chapter 52? You may regard the glossary definition as the official "guidelines" but CA-DLSE does not. If you look at the actual rules that CA-DLSE use (their manual), you will notice that these rules are a lot more nuanced that then the "glossary" factsheets, which in fact are not considered to be "guidelines". There is another potential problem is that prior case law and administrative decision are also part of the "guidelines" and this is more complicated then the general rules covered in the manual. Some of the decisions are very job specific and sometimes industry specific.
                      http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Manual-Instructions.htm
                      - Other then the "guidelines" issue, we apparently have a "fact" issue. You have one set of "facts" and the employer has a different set of "facts" that does not agree with your claims. No surprise there. That is pretty common. At the end of the day, CA-DLSE listens to both sides "facts" and decides whose "facts" they agree with.
                      "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
                      Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

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                      • #12
                        oh thank you! I had downloaded that manual but forgotten about that full chapter. However, it does further beg the question - why the dlse didn't investigate to the detail of their manual here? and don't "facts" have to be supported with proof? especially to obtain the bona fide exempt stamp?
                        If you happen to know where I can find their guidelines for retaliation based on violation of public policy please let me know. The manual only shows a few pieces in chapter 17 and 26 but doesn't go into detail. Do you think that means for retaliation they may be making determinations based primarily on case law? THANKS again!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I am afraid not. I know certain CA specific sources (the CLC, Wage Orders, the manual, the published opinion letters and the fact sheets), but I do not know the specific items that you are asking about.

                          I do know that the "prove your facts" arugment is a door that swings both ways, and is an argument that could in theory equally be used against both the employer and the employee. That under law neither of the two parties is assumed to be inherently correct. I do know that there have been many, many examples of both administrative decisions (CA-DLSE) and court decisions where different juristictions had what sounds like the same facts, and presumably had the same "law" to work with, but still manages to come up with different answers. At some point, the "judge" is always a variable in any decision. I have sat in on decisions where the person who brassed of the judge lost.

                          I do not know for sure why CA-DLSE does anything. And I am uncertain why you would think that I would know their thought process. I do not. What I do know is that the manual is a better indicator of their rules then the glossary. If you can find a published opinion letter that is factually similar, those can also be very useful. But it is far beyond my ability to second guess a case whose published results I have not read.
                          "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
                          Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

                          Comment

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