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Docked Pay?? Kansas Kentucky

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  • Docked Pay?? Kansas Kentucky

    I work at a local pizza joint in Kentucky
    I deliver, and this wont affect me but it seem like its not legal...

    All the servers have been docked $1.00 an hour because they don't do a good job cleaning up the dinning room at closing time.

    So this money is going to paying someone to clean the dinning room..
    Oh and the person cleaning the dinning room is the owners sister, and he is paying her under the table...

    Is this illegal???
    Thanks
    Last edited by Blue Blood; 06-05-2009, 09:15 AM.

  • #2
    For hours already worked?

    But no, it is not legal to pay an employee "under the table"?
    I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.

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    • #3
      No the 1.00 pay cut is going to start next pay period.

      Yes I know its not illegal to pay under the table, I get paid under the table two days a week to be a shift manager.
      Last edited by Blue Blood; 06-05-2009, 09:17 AM.

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      • #4
        You must have misread the post from Patty.
        PattyMD said:
        It is NOT legal to pay an employee under the table.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm not sure how you know the sister is being paid under the table but it is possible she is not an employee, particularly if she is performing a job like cleaning after hours. It makes no difference that they are related. Yes, it would be legal to pay the servers less to reflect the fact that they are no longer being required to clean. They still must make MW.

          How are you paid under the table for just 2 days?
          I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

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          • #6
            I thought it is OK to pay cash as long as the amount dose not exceed $599.00

            They fired a shift manager for coming in drunk a lot.

            They wanted to make me a full time manager but I didn't want to but said I would help them out until they hire a new manager.

            So I fill in a few days..
            I would deliver and be first off then clock out, and clock in as a manager to close the store. Then that pay me cash according to the amount of hours I worked each day!

            I know the sister pretty well..
            I don't know what her employment statues would be.
            Some weeks she works as a server and others as carry out girl.
            Some weeks she don't work at all.
            But she always gets paid cash.
            She also works as a cleaning lady, cleaning peoples homes.
            For cash of course!!!


            Anyway~
            So it is legal to cut 1.00 an hour from the servers pay? So what would be the cut off.... when the last customer steps out of the dinning room the servers are done?
            Last edited by Blue Blood; 06-05-2009, 09:53 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Blue Blood View Post
              I thought it is OK to pay cash as long as the amount dose not exceed $599.00
              Not legally. All workers are legally either employee's or independant contractors (IC). The $600 rule is nothing to do with this particular test. If the worker is an employee per the classification, then they are an employee even if they only earn a few dollars. There is nothing that stops the worker from filing a UI claim or a form SS-8 with IRS, or take some other action that forces the government to review the worker classification. It is often financially in the worker's self-interest to take such an action. It is also in the government's self-interest to audit and fine the employer for their actions.
              http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs13.pdf

              Assuming that the worker really is an IC according the classification rules, then there are two issues.
              - The "customer" (technically not an employer) needs to get a W-9 up front to avoid mandatory withholding.
              - Then at year end depending on the exact nature of the payee, there may or may not be a $600 rule on whether 1099 reporting must occur. Some classes of payees have a $600 limit, but other payees do not. There is nothing in the 1099 rules that allow an employer to illegal mis-classify a worker as an IC, then hide behind the 1099 $600 rule. If the government finds out that the employer misclassified an employee as an IC, then the problem is not failure to 1099, it is failure to withholding and report employment related taxes.
              "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
              Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

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              • #8
                OK we have got way off subject here

                So it is legal to cut 1.00 an hour from the servers pay? So what would be the cut off.... when the last customer steps out of the dinning room the servers are done?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes, it is legal to cut the servers' pay going forward, with the caveat that minimum wage must still be paid (sub-minimum, if applicable, plus tips).
                  I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.

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                  • #10
                    If we are talking federal law (FLSA) only, the employer must pay minimum wage, overtime, and follow the tip rules on a workweek basis. Collectively these are all pretty much "black letter law" and any employer testing these limits are likely to get hurt. Past that the feds do not really care what the hourly rate is, as long as the other rules are followed.

                    KY is not my state and I have no idea what rules (if any) they have on this. Some states are lot pickier then others about reducing pay with inadequate notice. Some courts (including small claims court) are much more likely to make equity decision as opposed to straight law decisions. I will say that if I was your employer, I would want to make sure that the $1 rule was communicated well ahead of time, and I would really rather defend an optional $1/hr bonus not paid then a $1/hr base pay docked in court. Still, as long as MW, OT and tip rules were being followed, and KY did not have any specific rules being violated, what you describe might be legal.
                    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
                    Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

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                    • #11
                      Being paid cash isn't illegal and is not the same as being paid under the table. Are you not paying taxes on this money or getting a W2 at the end of the year?

                      If the sister also works outside the restaurant cleaning, then it is very likely that she is an IC and not an employee.

                      As for when the servers are done working, thy are done when the employer tells them that they are. If that is when the last customer walks out the door, so be it. If they must stick around until the place officially closes for the night, that is allowed as well.
                      I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

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                      • #12
                        Yes being paid cash and no not paying taxes.. no 1099 - cash not on w2
                        "under the table"

                        Thanks for all the reply's
                        this has helped clear things up.....

                        Comment

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