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PTO usage question during hours reduction California

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  • PTO usage question during hours reduction California

    Hi Forum,

    I have tried the search function for this, but I was a bit overwhelmed with the number of post to sift thru. Although, I did try to sift thru alot I could not find the answer to my question. So here it is.

    We have had to cut back hours by 10% We have chosen to work 9 day per pay period instead of 10.

    I would like to find out if we are OBLIGATED to allow an employee to use their PTO time in place of the tenth day. It is PTO that is already earned.

    Thanks in advance for any help on this issue.

    Last edited by Moto MoFo; 04-24-2009, 06:03 AM.

  • #2
    No, you are not.

    However, are exempt employees affected as well?
    I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.


    • #3
      Thanks Patty for the rapid reply. I love reading some of the responses to other posts from you.

      Is there a link to the labor law that supports your response?( not that I dont believe you, its just I want to be able to give to my CEO as proof)

      I am the only salaried,exempt employee other than the Executives of the company that MAY be affected. The executives have said that they will take a 10% reduction in salary, but NOT hours.(they will still work 10 days per pay period instead of 9)
      The execs havnt said anything about me having to work reduced hours, or anything about reducing my salary. However, I would imagine that IF they reduced my hours, they would reduce my pay.

      I am a middle manager in charge of the departments that are getting the hours cut by 10%.


      • #4
        Nothing specific that says you MUST allow them to use it, but this implies the opposite, i.e., the employer controls when paid vacation/PTO can be taken, not the employee.

        Can my employer tell me when to take my vacation?

        Yes, your employer has the right to manage its vacation pay responsibilities, and one of the ways it can do this is by controlling when vacation can be taken and the amount of vacation that may be taken at any particular time.

        If you are doing this because of cash flow, it makes perfectly good business sense to not allow the nonexempt employees to use their PTO now. Hopefully, when said employees end up terminating, the company will have the cash to pay, because you'll have to eventually.
        I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.


        • #5
          Thanks again for the prompt reply.

          I appreciate the effort you made for me providing a link. Thank you.

          Out of curiousity, how would it affect a salaried/exempt?
          Last edited by Moto MoFo; 04-23-2009, 08:06 AM. Reason: afterthought added


          • #6
            Although some courts have given different opinions, the general recommendation is that, if you are going to give exempt employees a temporary salary decrease, don't tie it to hours. Then have them work the hours they need to, to still get the job done. If they don't need to work 40 hours or 50 or whatever, that's fine. Personally, I wouldn't even let them touch PTO to "make up the difference". It defeats the purpose of the salary decrease.
            I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.


            • #7
              The problem is the Exempt Salaried is a federal law (FLSA) requirement with docking restrictions on the salary. Federal rules are very clear that the feds do not care even a little bit what happens to the vacation/PTO balance, and that there is nothing the states can do to override the federal rules.

              Basically the federal Exempt Salaried rules and the CA vacation/PTO rules are legally unrelated to each other. Both sets of rules need to be complied with, and the employer cannot use one set of requirements as an excuse for failing to meet the other requirement.
              "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
              Philip K. **** (1928-1982)


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