Complete Labor Law Poster for $24.95
from www.LaborLawCenter.com, includes
State, Federal, & OSHA posting requirements

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

California - Housekeeper

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • California - Housekeeper

    Are light housekeepers (dusting, moping, cleaning bathroom's, making beds - etc) that work for someone and are paid on a daily basis, (in cash), like a "babysitter" that you would pay in cash?

    What I am trying to do is set up a list of "Light Housekeepers" to help Senior Citizens, like myself, with daily chores that they are unable to do anymore on a regular basis. If the client, (say my neighbor), pays me then I pay the housekeeper ... are they an employee of mine or are they like a "day worker" or an "independent contractor"? I have tried reading the California Labor laws and it is confusing, at least it is to me. Housekeepers, nor babysitters - do not seem to be addressed from what I am reading?

    Does the unemployment insurance and workmans comp. come in to play?

    I sure could use some help here, before I go any farther.

  • #2
    All workers are either employees or independant contractors. I can include a pointer the federal DOL rules on worker classification. Pretty much everything else derives from this classification. I will say that you are making some distinctions in your post not actually recognized in law.

    If a worker is legally an independant contractor (IC), then the law consideres the worker to be a vendor, someone who offers their services to the general public, who has many customers, who advertises, who can show a profit and loss. If you personnally can make the decision that someone else is a worker or IC, then arguably they cannot be an IC, because they are clearly not "independant" under common law.
    http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs13.pdf

    Workers compensation and unemployment insurance are characteristics of employees, and these are state programs imposed on their employers. IC do not have such coverage, although as an independant business whose customers make no decisions for them the IC could contract with an insurance company for comparable coverage.

    You might also want to look at IRS publication 15 (Employer's Tax Guide) at the "family" and "household" employees sections.
    http://www.irs.gov/publications/p15/index.html
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
    Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks DAW for trying to explain it to me. But now I am confused more than ever. lol

      So in other words ... since the housekeeper is not working for me am I still an employer, and they are my employee?

      Let's put it another way, ok?

      I have a list of people that want to work as housekeepers for Senior Citizens. I line up the Senior Citizen for them to work for, and pay the "housekeeper" say ... $10.00 an hour (no insurance, no benefits, no nuttin) ... but then for me having gathered this list of people (housekeepers) ... and I charge the (Senior Citizen neighbor) $11.00 an hour for my work in finding both the housekeeper and my neighbor does that make me an employer?

      Or would I be like an Employment Agency that has simply connected the two together?

      I am getting dizzy trying to say what I want to say! That's what happens when you get old. lol

      Comment


      • #4
        I saw this .... 3. Family Employees .... but I still did not see anything related to "household" (housekeepers) ..... workers.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CA95380 View Post
          I saw this .... 3. Family Employees .... but I still did not see anything related to "household" (housekeepers) ..... workers.

          It is part of section 14 in Pub 15.
          "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
          Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CA95380 View Post
            and I charge the (Senior Citizen neighbor) $11.00 an hour for my work in finding both the housekeeper and my neighbor does that make me an employer?

            Or would I be like an Employment Agency that has simply connected the two together?
            Could be either. Make it easy. Who writes actual check to the person who does the work? The legal burden of proof is on that person to prove that they are not the employer. The key here is that someone is juggling knives. If someone is trying to argue that these workers are IC, then someone needs to be able to show that under the federal DOL tests that these workers are indeed IC. If the government decides that these workers are not IC, then the government gets to decide who they go after. Could be you. Could be the clients. It will be whoever the government thinks can pay the fines. And all it takes is one worker to file on UI or WC claim to cause the government to review the status for all effected workers.

            One more time. If these workers are IC, then they have to have an independant existence beyond you or the clients. If I fail to call Joe the Plumber, Joe is still a plumber. Joe did not become a plumber because I willed him (or her) to become a plumber. If you are going to recruit household workers and clients and bring them together, you are leaving very little room for yourself to claim that these are ICs and legally have nothing to do with you.

            We are also getting beyond the area of what I feel comfortable answering questions for.
            "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
            Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

            Comment


            • #7
              I think they are domestic employees, not IC...

              552.3 Domestic service employment.

              As used in section 13(a)(15) of the FLSAct, the term domestic service employment refers to services of a household nature performed by an employee in or about a private home (permanent or temporary) of the person by whom he or she is employed. The term includes employees such as cooks, waiters, butlers, valets, maids, housekeepers, governesses, nurses, janitors, laundresses, caretakers, handymen, gardeners, footmen, grooms, and chauffeurs of automobiles for family use. It also includes
              babysitters employed on other than a casual basis. This listing is illustrative and not exhaustive.
              ========================================

              "A veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The 'United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'" (Author unknown)

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree that they would be employees of you as well.
                You take the calls, set up the details (time, location, duties), make the arrangements, assign a worker, pay the worker. IMHO, this is an employment agency.

                Before you get into this, as altruistic as your intent might be, I suggest you see an attorney versed in business law, as well as an accountant.
                Last edited by Pattymd; 09-12-2008, 03:18 AM.
                I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks so much to all that replied. I think the answer is what Patty said. Before I go farther I will check with an attorney and an accountant, too.

                  I was called away last night and just now got back on to see if anyone had come up with something.

                  Thanks to each of you.

                  Comment

                  The LaborLawTalk.com forum is intended for informational use only and should not be relied upon and is not a substitute for legal advice. The information contained on LaborLawTalk.com are opinions and suggestions of members and is not a representation of the opinions of LaborLawTalk.com. LaborLawTalk.com does not warrant or vouch for the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any postings or the qualifications of any person responding. Please consult a legal expert or seek the services of an attorney in your area for more accuracy on your specific situation.
                  Working...
                  X