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Non-paid training, is it required? Texas

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  • Non-paid training, is it required? Texas

    I work for a Texas college as a government contractor in Korea. I am a part time employee get paid only for hours worked.

    The school wants me to train in a new class that I have never taught before, and they expect me to sit in the class without pay to receive training. This will occur on two occasions.

    I am being trained for their benefit, not mine, although they say I should be willing to do it since I will be able to teach more classes. In addition, there is travel involved which they will pay for, but only on a reimbursable basis. I am therefore out over 1000 until I get reimbursed which takes 4 to 6 weeks.

    As a part time employee, can they force me to take this training without pay? My contention is that I should be paid for the training hours since it is at their request.

    Thanks in advance for any input.

  • #2
    Are you an employee or a contractor?
    I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

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    • #3
      I am a part-time employee of the school. I must fill out a part-time employment agreement for every class I teach that specifies the amount I am to be paid for that class. The school has a contract with the government to provide training to the soldiers. I am not contracted with the government. The school contributes to my retirement fund and withholds income taxes.

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      • #4
        The "in Korea" takes FLSA (U.S. labor law) off the table. Are you a U.S. citizen? And are you talking about U.S. or Korean income taxes being withheld from your check?
        "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
        Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

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        • #5
          The law won't help you as FLSA "shall not apply with respect to any employee whose services during the workweek are performed in a workplace within a foreign country." 29 U.S.C. ยง 213(f).

          However, there may be something in the contract with the school/ government which covers hours worked. Whether auditing a class would qualify is another matter.
          I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.

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          • #6
            U.S. Military bases are technically U.S. Territory. I am an American citizen, working for an American company, on American military installations. We work under a special SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement). Any taxes would be US taxes and for legal purposes, any applicable laws would be Texas law since that is the domicile of the home company. The SOFA primarily exempts us from Korean taxes and allows us to use military facilities to purchase our daily necessities on the military installation without Korean taxes. It doesn't apply to the business relationship between employer and employee.

            We are subject to Korean law for civil matters, but we and the company are subject to US law for business related issues--minimum wage, overtime, etc.

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            • #7
              Had you mentioned that the work was being done on a military base, the answers may not have been as they were. Kind of an important detail omitted. Having said that, however, I'm not sure that Texas wage and hour law would apply, although the FLSA most likely would and, it doesn't really make that much difference anyway, since Texas follows federal law for this issue. You can confirm FLSA applicability to your particular employment location/situation by calling the federal DOL.

              So, assuming the FLSA does apply, mandatory training is compensable time.
              http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Ti...9CFR785.27.htm
              Last edited by Pattymd; 03-20-2008, 03:18 AM.
              I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.

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              • #8
                You're right. My error. However, never having done this before, what may be obvious to you was not so obvious to me at the time. In retrospect I see your point and stand corrected. Hopefully there won't be a next time, but if there Is, I'll be more specific in my original posting.

                Thank you very much for your help and input.

                Comment


                • #9
                  US Labor laws are only applicable to the 50 US states, Guam, Puerto Rico, including military bases but not those outside the US.
                  ========================================

                  "A veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The 'United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'" (Author unknown)

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                  • #10
                    I'm not sure I can agree with the Chief (CW3) because I know of at least one case where an employer not only had to increase their worker's salaries to conform to minimum wage law, but also had to pay back pay for same. It is true that US labor law does not affect the employment of local nationals who work on base, but American citizens, working for American companies under contract to the government are covered.

                    Thanks for the link, JoeC. It will come in handy, however in this case Korean law doesn't apply. I'll check and see if they are familiar with SOFA law, which is different. They may well be so it is a worthwhile link.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks, Joe.

                      I've lived here for 20 years, and I really like it. Unfortunately, some employers like to take advantage and pay substandard wages with substandard working conditions. Fortunately fewer and fewer are willing to go along, so the companies are slowly changing...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PPRWang View Post
                        I'm not sure I can agree with the Chief (CW3) because I know of at least one case where an employer not only had to increase their worker's salaries to conform to minimum wage law, but also had to pay back pay for same. It is true that US labor law does not affect the employment of local nationals who work on base, but American citizens, working for American companies under contract to the government are covered.
                        I disagreed with your response... If you can try to call any US Labor Dept-Wage Hour Office, in Korea. There are none. If you try to call one here in the US I know you will get the same response I provided here. But you can try any thing you may wish...
                        ========================================

                        "A veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The 'United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'" (Author unknown)

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                        • #13
                          I did some research and what little I can find on the subject supports ArmyRetCW3's position. The problem is my major sources do not say anything one way or the other. Does anyone else actually have any hard support on this one way or the other.

                          http://www.fsa.ulaval.ca/personnel/V.../Zimmerman.htm

                          "D. FAIR LABOR STANDARDS ACT

                          The Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (FLSA) requires employers to provide minimum standards for overtime pay, child labour equal pay, maximum hours and minimum wages.(13) Prior to 1957, several courts gave the FLSA full extraterritorial effect. In 1948, for example, the United States Supreme Court held that Congress intended the FLSA to extend to employer-employee relations in foreign territory under lease for military bases.(14) The Overseas Fair Labor Standards Amendment was therefore introduced in 1954, and finally passed by Congress in 1957, to counter the Supreme Court's interpretation of the territorial scope of the FLSA. The amendment excludes from FLSA coverage "any employee whose services during the work-week are performed in a workplace within a foreign country".(15)
                          "
                          "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
                          Philip K. **** (1928-1982)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by joec
                            Hey Chief you ever do a tour over there?
                            JoeC
                            Nope I serve in the unpopular war (Viet Nam).. & 3 tours in Germany with a detour in Desert Storm I...
                            ========================================

                            "A veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The 'United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'" (Author unknown)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [QUOTE=DAW;962958]Does anyone else actually have any hard support on this one way or the other.[QUOTE]


                              DAW - I researched & came up with what you did + have a reference sheet on the FLSA that reads: FLSA does not apply to employees during any workweeks in which they perform services entirely in countries, territories or possessions that are not expressly covered by the Act. (FLSA applies to all states, DC, & all territories or possessions of the US including Guam, P.R., American Samoa, Virgin Island, Wake Island, Johnston Island, Eniwetok, Atoll, Kwajalein Atoll & the outer Continental Shelf Islands) However, all hours of work count when an employee spends part of the workweek in the US.

                              Examples given: 1. The Act does not apply to either US citizens or foreign nationals working at a US military base in Germany, whether for the Armed Forces or for a government contractor.

                              2. A US tour escort leads a three week trip to Australia. The trip departs and returns in the middle of a workweek. The escort must be paid for any overtime hours worked during the first or third weeks, but not during the middle week spent entirely in Australia.

                              The overseas exclusion was adopted to avoid conflicts with foreign laws or disruption of foreign economies.

                              FLSA differs from federal job discrimination laws in that respect. Under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act, coverage extends to US citizens working for US employers in foreign countries.

                              FLSA applies to ships' crews that are working on American vessels on the Great Lakes and in the open seas; it also applies to employees of air carriers, although there is an overtime exemption.
                              Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

                              Live in peace with animals. Animals bring love to our hearts and warmth to our souls.

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