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California Salary / PTO Deduction

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  • California Salary / PTO Deduction

    I work here in California for a personal business and they had recently sent out this message

    Effective Immediately:

    All Salary employees must use the hand punch.

    If you are at a location that you can not use your hand punch or no hand punch is available - you are required to call ******** or Payroll and speak to someone - to give them your specific information (ie, your name, your location , and the time). Note: We must speak to you, leaving a message is not acceptable.

    At the end of the pay period and prior to payroll transmission, if any days are missing, PTO will be taken and will not be reversible.

    Web Time Sheets usage will only be accepted by FM employees.

    If you have lost your hand punch card or it doesn't work, please contact payroll.

    Is this legal in california. They will take away PTO if you do not fulfill the 80 hours. I had always thought that if worked 5 hours that day then they will not be able to deduct PTO.

  • #2
    It is legal to require it. It is not legal to withhold pay as a form of discipline for not following company procedures. But, if you follow them, then it's a non-issue, right? Doesn't make any difference whether the employee is exempt (I'm assuming that's what you mean by salaried, or nonexempt).

    But you're saying that the "discipline" is not that the employee's pay will be docked, but PTO will be decremented? If so, not legal. PTO/Vacation is immediately vested upon earning in California, and once earned, cannot be taken away.
    Last edited by Pattymd; 10-11-2007, 11:18 AM.
    I don't respond to Private Messages unless the moderator specifically refers you to me for that purpose. Thank you.


    • #3
      Thank you for the reply. It is funny because they take away PTO if we are sick/ missing hours in a week / or anything to make up that 40 hours not worked. But the other thing that btohers me is that even though we work over 40 hours we do not get compensation except for the fact that they deduct pay.

      If there is no PTO then if missing hours on that week then they will deduct it from out Paycheck.


      • #4
        Originally posted by Farside80 View Post
        If there is no PTO then if missing hours on that week then they will deduct it from out Paycheck.
        Exempt or Non-Exempt? (Salaried by itself really does not mean much). The docking rules are very different for Exempt Salaried vs. Non-Exempt Salaried.
        "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
        Philip K. **** (1928-1982)


        • #5
          We are Exempt Salaries, Sorry for the lack of information.


          • #6
            OK. "Exempt" and "Salaried" are federal law (FLSA) concepts. The Exempt Salaried regulation is 29 CFR 541.602. These rules affect salaried pay based on time worked, and place some serious restrictions on docking the salary paid. Just to be clear however, reducing a benefit hour balance legally has nothing to do with the salary paid.

            Vacation and PTO however are not federal law concepts. Federal DOL is on record that nothing an employer does with vacation or PTO concerns them or the Exempt status. California considers vacation and PTO to be exactly the same thing. Legally these are vested benefits. There is no "5 hour" rule. CA "rules" such as they are in the CA-DLSE Enforcement Manual, and tend to be pretty contradictory. CA is clear that partial and complete days not worked can legally (under CA rules) allow the vacation/PTO balances for actual hours not worked. Their manual also says at least part of the time that the vacation/PTO balance can be reduced by 4 hours even if less then 4 hours was missed. HOWEVER, CA in their wisdom has failed to explain this "rule" and no one is very clear just what this rule does and does not mean.
            "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
            Philip K. **** (1928-1982)


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