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FMLA and No Fault Absentee policy in Michigan

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  • #16
    Hey cbg thank you for the clarification. You are right some of the time it appears that some here are so pro-employer that it comes across as anti-employee. I see what you are saying about the law and respect the position each poster here takes.



    • #17
      Thanks for understanding. As I've also said before, if some enlightened future president ever makes me Labor Secretary, you'll see a lot of new protections for employees that currently don't exist. But until that day, we're stuck with what we've got, whether I personally approve of it or not.

      If you really want to get into post analysis, you might want to look at the difference in the answers we give to employers versus employees. Take a fairly simple but oft repeated question; is an employee due a 15 minute break every morning and afternoon? The answer, under the law, is no; not unless the employee falls under a very limited group of hotel employees in the state of IL. There is nowhere else in the US where the adult employees of private employers are entitled by law to a 15 minute break (there are a few states that allow for a 10 minute break, but for some reason 15 minutes seems to have found its way into the conventional wisdom). I personally believe that all non-exempts and probably most exempts should receive a break of ten or fifteen minutes - it would be better for them and in the long run more productive to the employer as well, but the law does not bear me out on that. It would be counterproductive and, in my mind, adding insult to injury to point out to an employee that the employer could, if they chose, offer such a break so if an employee asks this question, the only possible answer is, no, such a break is not required by law. I can't control what the poster's employer does; why underline it?

      If an employer asks this question, though, I'm much more likely to answer in this way: No, it is not required by law, but there is nothing to prevent you from offering such a break if you choose.

      Depending on how much time I have, I might even explain about the productivity going up if the employee is rested, but that's going to depend on circumstances.
      The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.


      • #18
        Thanks everyone for the input!

        Ok, just for some clarification. I have not gone to anybody other than our HR girl regarding me finding out that they are not allowed to give me points for FMLA. The only reason I found out that they are not allowed to give me points for FMLA was after I got the above conference - I was so pissed off that I posted about it on a support group I belong to and a few people said HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! Are you getting points for FMLA? And I was like YES! And that is where it all began. I only went to HR after finding out and asked if she had known anything about it and she said no, was mad that our company is not allowing to take seminars, etc. that she wants to, but of course it is their way of keeping her in the dark. Then she spoke to VP and that is where he told her he did not think the owner would care. SO, I have not gone any further with it - I have not responded to this conference as of yet as I want to make sure I am 100% about it before I start a fire. Half of the FMLA I took was given a 30 day notice - the other half was unforseeable and I did not give a 30 day notice, but I did notify that day and kept my employer up to date as needed. In the conference I posted above, they are just responding about my points in general without any consideration to the FMLA points and of course without any consideration of the fact that it is illegal to give FMLA points. My immediate boss typed it up with direction from the owner. I do not believe that my immediate boss is aware of the FMLA point system.

        In addition, believe me - I am constantly sending my resume out and trying to get out as quickly as I can! But, I live in MI where there is basically not much of a job prospect and where people are moving out quicker than they are staying. But, I intend on spending most of today just sending more resumes out - I just want out of there and hate that I have to deal with this stress.

        Thanks again everyone!


        • #19
          Newest update

          To update briefly day 1.... My immediate boss started going through her in basket and I just had to tell her that my response to the conference was in there. She asked if I got nasty (asked in a good way) and I said yes I wanted to, but no I just said a couple of short and sweet sentences... She was all for me and once she read what I wrote she was even more about me standing up for myself. Once the CFO knew he thought the owner would just laugh....There were lots of meetings abot me today! He asked for all of my records and wanted a spreadsheet of every day I have ever missed in my 2 years there plus records of any time I took for doc appointments, etc.... Luckily, I have doc notes for every day missed for my daughter's illnesses and surgeries - the owner is truly a %#%*& -yep that word!

          UPdate #2 from day 2.....

          Well, the CFO came in and shut the door and said I just want to update you as I am sure you are wondering what is going on..... And at first it all started out great.... First, he said that I will get a response to my letter by next Friday and that it probably will be Friday when I get my response as the owner is going out of town for a couple of weeks after that. Then he stated that yes if he does remove the points then of course I will get my raise and yes it will be retroactive... Then he started on another schpeel (is that a word?!?!?) about the owner checking with his lawyers and trying to find any gray area or loophole. And I explained that I researched this for 2 weeks - spoke with people not only in the HR field, but also in the legal field and nobody could find a loop hole. And I agreed that yes if he could find one he would do it.... The conversation then proceeded onward to that Boy he sure hoped I was out there looking for something else - more he was saying it because he knows that now I am flagged for life there and the owner is going to do anything in his power to get me out. And probably I should not have said this, but I did say of course I am looking - do you think it is easy for me to deal with this everyday?????? And then he went on to say that even if his lawyers could not find a loophole that the owner may still decide to do nothing and make it his own law. Which I said yes illegal!!!!!! And then onward to say that he thought even if he removed my points that he would not end up giving me a raise at all..... Said he is looking for anything on my work to destroy it. I was so ANGRY! I told him hey WAIT!!! You told me at the last meeting before I even brought this up that I was not getting my raise ONLY because I was on probation and it was completely a probation that I should have never been on in the first place.... ANd even my immediate boss said yes that is exactly what you said... And he hem hawed right over that and basically lead me to believe that I would never get a raise now no matter what and that the owner is going to do anything in his power to get rid of me somehow..... WOW - I knew this was coming, but wow I have a hard time with this.... Me raised doing the right thing always and him not caring who he drills to the ground...... It was a terrible day for me.....

          Ughhhhhhh please hope I get out of there quickly!


          • #20
            First of all, chill. Easier said than done I know but you only have a 3rd party's opinion of what he thinks the boss might maybe do. The matter is being looked into. Give them a chance to do so and remedy this first before stressing out completely. The owner knows you know your rights and therefore is less likely to flagrantly violate them. If he does, you have recourse but you are looking elsewhere and you don't know for sure that this guy will retaliate.
            I post with the full knowledge and support of my employer, though the opinions rendered are my own and not necessarily representative of their position. In other words, I'm a free agent.


            The forum is intended for informational use only and should not be relied upon and is not a substitute for legal advice. The information contained on are opinions and suggestions of members and is not a representation of the opinions of does not warrant or vouch for the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any postings or the qualifications of any person responding. Please consult a legal expert or seek the services of an attorney in your area for more accuracy on your specific situation.