FMLA and No Fault Absentee policy in Michigan

[LindaLinda27]

I work for a manufacturing company in MI who has a No Fault Absentee Policy. We only get vacation time and no sick or personal time although the company allows for doc appointments, etc. during the week as long as arrangement are made ahead of time and you make up all of your time during the week. You get points for being absent, for not working 8 hours in one day, for not working your full 40 hours (unless arrangements made ahead of time) and also points for FMLA. I have been on Probation 2 x now because of excessive absenteeism. But, 6 of my points from last year and 6 of my points from this year were due to FMLA. And actually, I am just finding out - more of my time could have been considered FMLA, but my company had a policy - in order to take FMLA it had to be for at least 3 days. I have just had a conference due to the owner not liking my response to the conference I had in April that put me on probation where I stated "yes, I had incurred the points, but most points were due to my daughter's illnesses and hospitalizations and were completely unavoidable".... Apparently, he did not like the use of "unavoidable". So, I had another conference on that. And then was told that I will not be receiving my raise because I am on probation. I am just finding out that my company cannot assign points to me for FMLA. Before I go to them with this -which I already went to HR who knew nothing about it - I need to make sure I am absolutely positive about it. I would never have been on Probation either time if I had not been assigned points for FMLA. My daughter has Down syndrome and other health issues that she is followed for by many specialists. I am a single parent or otherwise I would not work full time. I am frustrated to say the least and the VP of the company thinks the owner will not care if he is in violation and will not change anythng. Please advise what I can do. My nerves are shot while I am attempting to fight for something that I should not have to fight for.

Thanks!

[cbg]

The US DOL is the regulatory agency for FMLA. You might want to give them a call and see what they recommend.

[Pattymd]

Points may not be assessed for FMLA absences. Did you report that you were utilizing intermittent FMLA (I'm assuming here, since you mentioned your child's condition) for each related absence?

If the owner doesn't care, maybe the federal Dept. of Labor will. Give them a call.

[BnThrDnTht]

Absolutely call them and make sure the boss knows that violating FMLA is not a good thing.
Geezzz some people act like they are made of stone. Not that I would wish illness on anyone but it would serve this jerk right well to be struck with something that kept him unable to get off the bed for a couple of weeks. Might just be humbeling enough to make him understand that some health issues really are UNAVOIDABLE. But then on the other hand likely the attendence policy dosen't apply to him anyway. After all he above being human.

[DAW]

The Boss's Law

1. The Boss is always right.
2. If anyone else knew anything of importance, then they would be the Boss.
3. Since they are not the Boss, by defintion, they know nothing of importance.
4. For all other questions, see rule #1.

[BnThrDnTht]

The Boss's Law

1. The Boss is always right.
2. If anyone else knew anything of importance, then they would be the Boss.
3. Since they are not the Boss, by defintion, they know nothing of importance.
4. For all other questions, see rule #1.

Too true DAW. Works hand in hand with you don't have to be a brain to be a boss just an (deleted). I won't put it here as it is a bit vulgar. Most people over the age of twelve have most likely read it anyway. Then there is always the boss spelled backwards. Double S O B.

Unfortunately none of this helps the OP, it might help to lighten the mood a little however ...

[LindaLinda27]

This is a copy of the last conference regarding my remarks to the previous conference

Basically on top it says the reason for conference: Response to attendance conference on April 30, 2007. (that was the confernce for "Failure to maintain good attendence" in which I went on Proabation and my response was basically, yes I missed the days, incurred the points, but most of the days were due to my daughter's illnesses and hospitalizations and there for were completely unavoidable)...

"We have reviewed your answer to the April 30th, 2007 conference regarding the maintaining of good attendance and wanted to give/get further clarification regarding your remarks. To begin, the company understands and concurs that the health of your family, including yourself, should be a high priority in your life. As such, the company allows employees to take time during their week, with proper notice, to handle issues that come about and then make up any lost time in order to not accumulate any attendance points. We understand that there will be unexpected issues that arise that you will need to take care of, but you have incurred quite a few of these situations which has led you to accumulate enough points that you have experienced probation throughout your tenure. Now that you have been here for two years, we would assume you that you have a thorough understanding and know the importance of the attendance policy. If you have circumstances outside of work that may interfere with you regualrly showing up for work, we would assume that you have taken measures to address them. We understand that you have responsibilities outside of work that take up a lot of time and are very important to you, but you also know what the time commitments are with your job and the importance of good attendance. Because of this, we feel that all the points you have accumulated are not unavoidable and that arrangements should have been made by now to minimize theses occurences.

Sooooooooooooo, that is what I have to respond to.... And for the record - I have not been on Probation for the whole 2 years. I first went on it last Sept and then again this year in April. I am still trying to figure out what I can do to address the issue of my daughter getting Pneumonia - hmmmmm seems no matter how much I tell her to not get it that D&*% Pneumonia just does not listen!!!!! Yeah, and the owner had my other 2 bosses have this conference with me when he was conveniently out of town. In addition, he wanted to know if I needed to be in the hospital with her - I was like "WHAT?" - oh that's right I should have just dropped my 2 year old off at the door and said hey let me know when I need to pick her up!

I have no idea how to respond to this - I mean I know what I would like to say..... Any advice is great!

[BnThrDnTht]

Linda, when an employer is so brassy that they think it is okay to ignore federal regulations where employees are concerned you would likely be better off looking for another job. It isn't like you are calling out every other week with the sniffles for God's sake. When you have a child, and especially as a single parent, that is prone to have the kind of health issues that your daughter has you need to be working for a compassionate employer that isn't ready to punish you when your child is ill. Even in spite of federal laws that prohibit it. Yes you can hang around and fight it out with them and wait until they can conger up enough BS to fire you and it would seem that is exactly what they are up to. Or you can get that resume out, dust it off, and get looking for a more accomodative place of employment.

If you choose to hang around where you are currently employed you know exactly what you need to do as far as replying to their BS memo. I also suspect that you know how to word your reply to kiss up to them enough to hang onto your job, at least for the time being.

When your employer elected to punish you for missing work while using FMLA they broke the law. They most likely keow what they were doing at the time as well. Employers with a BULLY mentality like that are dispicable IMHO. It is one thing to be expected to be at work and complete your job assignments in order to make a living. It is entirely another thing to have to be scared for your job every time you turn around.

I fully expect to be chewed on by some of the other poster on here for having this very strong opinion and quite frankly I dosen't bother me. I just want you to know and understand that you have options. Some of which does not include being pushed around and bullied for things that truly are beyond your control.

So you have a choice to make either go in and play the game by their rules or find another job.

[Pattymd]

BTDT, doesn't bother me one bit. Employers that flaunt the law just because they think they can get away with it drive me crazy. And, they'll never stop unless they get reported and get some big ol' fines.

[BnThrDnTht]

BTDT, doesn't bother me one bit. Employers that flaunt the law just because they think they can get away with it drive me crazy. And, they'll never stop unless they get reported and get some big ol' fines.

Patty thank you for that comment. It makes me madder than heck as well .. Gaulds me to no end. I don't support employees expecting to be paid when they aren't doing their job and at the same time I don't support nor have any respect for an employer that just wants to throw their weight around simply because they are the boss. Reminds me of the play yard bullies that just because they are big ol' fat arses pushing the smaller kids around. The smaller kids most always comply to their demands for fear of getting sat on by the lard butt and being smashed. Same thing with a supposed adult acting out the bully mentality.

Have a good night Patty

[ElleMD]

Just clarifying, are you in trouble for not timely reporting the absences or calling in with the reason for the absence or for actually taking the time? The letter you received makes it sounds a bit like the former. FMLA would not exempt you from the usual procedures for reporting absences, and while most employers will understand if a true emergency comes up and makes whatever that process is impossible, if it becomes a regular thing, then they may address that.

The time off must still be granted and I'd hope an employer would understand if it truly was impossible to give advance notice so long as the employee tried to cooperate to the extent they were able.

If you are getting in trouble just for taking the leave, call the DOL.

[BnThrDnTht]

With all due respect Elle I don't think she is in trouble for not timely calling that she would be out. If anything she is in trouble for pointing out that their little "no fault policy" is in direct violation of FMLA and they know it. Rather than retract and admit that they mistakenly gave her points for a violation of the attendence policy and offer to deduct those days that her daughter was in the hospital they elect to insist on punishing her further. Perhaps they expect that if they can give her enough points she may never get a raise. This boss sounds just like any other abuser keep them beat down long enough and far enough and you can control them forever. No difference here it just happens to be the God, oh sorry I mean Boss, that is dishing out the abuse rather than a spouse.

[ElleMD]

since I'm not there and we only have one side of the story, I'm just pointing out that FMLA is not a shield from any and all discipline related to leave. It could be that the boss is just being a jerk, in which case a call to HR, his supervisor or the DOL is in order. Could be that there are legitimate issues related to the leave, which while not terribly compassionate if it can not be helped, isn't covered under FMLA.

[BnThrDnTht]

I hear you Elle on the one sided story. Hopefully they can get it worked out with a win-win. Who knows.

[cbg]

BTDT, I don't think you will ever see any of the regular responders here flaming someone for talking against an employer who thinks they are above the law. While we may not always agree in these forums whether a law is being violated, flagrant violations like this make most if not all HR people (at least those who know what they're doing) very angry.

Keep in mind what many people forget; we are only the messenger. As I've been saying frequently lately, we don't write the laws or vote on their passage; we only report them. Quite a lot of the time it makes us mad as heck to have to say, "There's no law being violated here". A lot of people translate, "Your employer is not violating the law" as, "I agree with and approve of what your employer is doing" which is not even remotely the case much of the time. But our opinions of what the employer ought to do, ethically, morally, or even out of just plain courtesy, does not a law make.