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Blacklisted for life... New Jersey

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  • Pattymd
    replied
    Poor horsie.

    Leave a comment:


  • cbg
    replied
    Personally, I think we've about beat this horse to death. Everyone else agree?

    Leave a comment:


  • Pattymd
    replied
    Originally posted by cactus jack View Post
    No, the "list" I spoke of is very real, TS. Besides, the list I spoke of is totally different than the list crazy robot and Mein Dok speak of. Their list requires tin foil hats to protect them from the UN/Illuminati/NASA/USN/USMC/Bilderboogers/Rockefellers/Zeta clan.
    CJ, so NICE to have you back. You crack me up.

    Leave a comment:


  • cactus jack
    replied
    No, the "list" I spoke of is very real, TS. Besides, the list I spoke of is totally different than the list crazy robot and Mein Dok speak of. Their list requires tin foil hats to protect them from the UN/Illuminati/NASA/USN/USMC/Bilderboogers/Rockefellers/Zeta clan.

    Leave a comment:


  • TSCompliance
    replied
    I have to jump in with a few points.

    First, companies don't have any loyalty to other companies, especially companies they are in competition with. Why would I want to help out a competitor? If I thought Roboto was horrible, I'd probably want to give the competitor a glowing reference on him! If I thought he was wonderful, I wouldn't want the competition to get him, and I'd keep him at my organization.

    Second, I'm not sure where Roboto worked, but in my experience, Human Resources doesn't have that kind of power over executive managers. HR runs the background checks, and reports the info to the manager hiring the person. If HR doesn't like the candidate for some reason that is not documented or documentable, and the hiring manager likes the candidate, there's no way HR can stop the hire. HR serves a support function, but doesn't generally make strategic decisions for the direction of a company (Sorry if that offends any of my HR buddies here but you know there's this myth that HR is all-powerful, and I'm sure you've repeatedly wished you actually had some of that rumored power!) In truth, the Execs don't really listen to HR, and second tier management (like me, admittedly) don't really listen to them either, unless it's about specifics on employment law or what needs to be posted on the bulletin board. (Again, apologies to my HR friends here. If you guys worked at my company I'd probably feel differently).

    3rd, it is completely legal and appropriate for a past employer to say negative stuff about a job candidate, as long as it's factually true, or the employer's opinion. If Roboto does great in an interview, and then HR does a reference check, ex-employers might say things like he was great at his technical stuff, but his personality caused a lot of problems in the workplace. He was very difficult to deal with, etc. This is not blacklisting or slander.

    If I have a professional colleague at another organization who asks me for a reference about such a job candidate, competition aside, I will give my honest opinion, with examples to back it up, simple because my credibility among others in my profession is important to me. I would not lie about an ex-employee, but I will certainly share any major concerns I have. I would clearly qualify my concerns by adding that this is my opinion.

    4th, for those who think there is no oversight of HR, and that those evil HR people can just break the law right & left with no accountability, you're wrong. A compliance dept can routinely review HR's practices in the area of references and hiring, and other things. I randomly audit hires, terms, ref checks, etc, and look for documentation. If an HR person were involved in some actual or de facto blacklist, it would not be tolerated. But it just doesn't happen.


    Roboto, it's pretty clear that the way you see yourself is not meshing with how others see you. Just on this message board you are coming off as arrogant, paranoid, and argumentative. If these are consistent personality traits, people you've worked with will know about them and respond to them, and people who interview you will pick up on them too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beth3
    replied
    And when we do happen to share stories with a colleague about some employee-from-hell (which all HR folks have had), we almost never refer to the employee by name as the other party wouldn't care and it's just not relevant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Betty3
    replied
    Agree with cbg. HR managers talking together (no matter what about) is not like having a physical black list of employees they will not hire locked away in a cabinet drawer which seems to be what the OP believes.
    Last edited by Betty3; 02-23-2009, 12:14 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • cbg
    replied
    Jack, I'm sure you're telling the truth, but there's a very large difference between a couple of managers sharing experiences at the end of the day and the kind of secret blacklist that is being imagined by the poster.

    Leave a comment:


  • cactus jack
    replied
    Please understand that I'm not saying what I'm saying "just because". I know it first hand. Lots of stuff I know first hand, and if you think this is wild, you're not ready for the other stuff I know!

    Right Herr Dok?

    Leave a comment:


  • Beth3
    replied
    And I once had an employee who developed some seriously wack-a-doo behavior. Long story short, it because evident she had a cocaine or similiar drug problem. After many months of dealing with this, we finally had to let her go.

    Fast forward four months and the HR Manager of an area company who I knew called me, said they'd hired wack-a-doo ex-employee several months ago and why hadn't I told her what was going on? My response was (a) I didn't know you'd hired her, and (b) WHY DIDN'T YOU CALL ME FOR A REFERENCE BEFORE YOU DID???!!!

    Secret blacklist? I don't think so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Morgana
    replied
    And, I have had the opposite of this so called "black list situation."

    I once called a fellow HR person about an applicant who had worked at a neighboring company. He said nothing negative and said there were rumors of a lay off and maybe this guy was trying to get himself set up in case of a layoff.

    Turns out the guy had multiple medical problems which meant he was on light duty with them. When we sent him for the standard physical exam for that position, he wasnt cleared for most of the work (its a heavy labor position).

    My HR colleague could have told me that but didnt.

    Leave a comment:


  • cbg
    replied
    Jack, I've been in HR for 30 years, and never once have I participated in, overheard, or heard other HR professionals refer to, a conversation such as you describe.

    I say once more and I will continue saying as long as anyone argues the point:

    There is not and never has been an HR blacklist. What a couple of managers discuss over a beer does not and never will constitute a general blacklist participated in by all HR managers.

    Leave a comment:


  • drruthless
    replied
    Das ist in der Doktor!

    Well, you have gone and done it NOW Jack.. It’s the witness protection program for you buddy,
    or you could wind up, “sleeping with the fishes” .…..Der Doktor ist heraus
    _________________________
    Free advice is like a public defender,
    you get what you pay for.
    Last edited by drruthless; 02-23-2009, 03:41 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • cactus jack
    replied
    Originally posted by cbg View Post
    THERE IS NO HR BLACKLIST.
    -snip-
    I can't prove a negative. No one can. I can't prove the non-existance of such a thing. But no one here, including the OP, has proven its existance either, except in his own mind, and I'd appreciate your not promoting the possibility that there is one.
    CBG, actually, there is. Kinda. Let me explain-
    Coffee shop talk. Simple.

    Professionals in their respective fields communicate. They talk. Some times big stuff, lots of times small talk.

    This is a highly edited version of the talk I know that happens-

    "Hey 'X', how's life on your end?".... enter basic friendly small talk.
    "You know something 'X', there's this guy, 'Z', that said he used to work for 'A'. You hear anything about him?"

    "You know, all I heard was rumor and small talk. They said 'Z' <enter rumor mill garbage>. If I was you I'd ask 'D'. If it was up to me, from what I've heard, I'd avoid him at all costs!"

    "Hello 'D', how are you today?"
    "Just fine. You?"
    "Just peachy. Say, I have some questions about <insert technology talk>."
    "Hey 'X', I heard through the grape vine you was asking about 'Z'. Buddy, all I can say is walk softly. My opinion, and it's free. So take it for what it's worth."
    "Yeah, 'D', I heard he worked for you. What's the gist of it?"
    "Come on 'X', you know I can't say anything about that. It's illegal."
    "Well 'D', what I heard is <enter rumor mill garbage>. Is it true?"
    "'X', you know I can't answer that. You know federal law says I can't tell you the details you want."
    "I see. I really don't mean to put you in a bad spot there 'D'."
    "I understand your plight 'X'. You also understand that if what you said was untrue, I'd have to tell you that it's untrue so I wouldn't be liable in any defamation issues."
    "Yeah, those civil court things are a pest, aren't they? It sucks. So tell me 'D', are they untrue?"
    -a minute long pause with 'D' sighing-
    "'X' my friend, it has been a long morning. I really must go. You have a good day and be careful out there!"
    "Yes sir, and you as well!"

    There you go CBG. THAT is the blacklist the fella may be talking about. It happens. And last I knew there's nothing anyone can really do about it. If they tell the truth, they can be sued. But if they are told they are alleged to have spoken anything defamatory, what do you think they'd do? They'd try to clear it up as carefully as they can.

    I know this first hand, CBG. A lot of professionals know this, but they won't talk about it. It's especially prevalent in union workplaces. Unions are held to a different standard, and they can spread the rumors as they wish. In fact, unions can do nearly anything they wish and get away with it.

    It's not like it's an internet site that has this info, similar to the sex offender database most states have. It's word of mouth. And between professionals, it's gospel. They have to protect themselves. The adage "I'll do you a favor, but I need a favor myself" holds true in this case. They will protect each others interests even though they are competition. It's a friendly competition.

    That's not to say that all professionals do this. You clearly don't, CBG. And I know others that won't either. Not readily, anyhow. They'll take what's said with a grain of salt, and the second it starts showing any truth, they'll fire him or demote him.
    Last edited by cactus jack; 02-23-2009, 12:09 AM.

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  • drruthless
    replied
    Das ist in der Doktor!

    Originally posted by The Masked Poster View Post
    ruthless. Since facts and logic didn't work, I'm sorry you lack the capacity to understand the use of absurdity to try to make a point. But your response and other things I have seen you post make it clear to me there is nothing you have to say which I would consider worth my time reading, so I have set this place to from now on ignore all your posts and thereby erase your existence from my universe.
    A very small universe at that………Der Doktor ist heraus!
    ___________________
    Don't believe everything you think.
    When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it.

    Leave a comment:

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