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  • DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under

    IMPORTANT AND URGENT WARNING FOR ANYONE WITH A BANK SAFE DEPOSIT BOX:
    U.S DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
    SECURITY HAS TOLD BANKS - IN WRITING - IT MAY INSPECT SAFE DEPOSIT
    BOXES WITHOUT WARRANT AND SIEZE ANY GOLD, SILVER GUNS OR OTHER
    VALUABLES IT FINDS INSIDE THOSE BOXES!

    According to in-house memos now circulating, the DHS has issued orders
    to banks across America which announce to them that "under the Patriot
    Act" (whatever that crap means) the DHS has the absolute right to
    seize, without any warrant whatsoever, any and all customer bank
    accounts, to make "periodic and unannounced" visits to any bank to
    open and inspect the contents of "selected safe deposit boxes."
    Further, these boxes, taken from a DHS list of people who are
    considered "hostile to the present government, citizens who have
    visited outside the United States before or after 9/11 to countries
    now considered to be hostile to this country" " :Russia, Peoples
    Republic of China, Mexico, Guatemala, Spain, Italy, Egypt, France,
    Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Turkey or the Sudan" or any citizen who has a
    bank account in any of those listed countries are considered to be of
    legitimate interest in the "ongoing investigations into foreign and
    domestic terrorism."

    Further, the DHA "shall, at the discretion of the agent supervising
    the search, remove, photograph or seize as evidence" any of the
    following items"bar gold, gold coins, firearms of any kind unless
    manufactured prior to 1878, documents such as passports or foreign
    bank account records, pornography or any material that, in the opinion
    of the agent, shall be deemed of to be of a contraband nature."

    DHS memos also state that banks are informed that any bank employee,
    on any level, that releases "improper" "classified DHS Security
    information" to any member of the public, to include the customers
    whose boxes have been clandestinely opened and inspected and "any
    other party, to include members of the media" and further "that the
    posting of any such information on the internet will be grounds for
    the immediate termination of the said employee or employees and their
    prosecution under the Patriot Act."

    Currently, the two major targets of these completely illegal and
    warrantless searches and seizures, are the California-based Bank of
    America and the Compass Bank. The former is one of the largest banks
    in the United States and Compass Bank ( Compass Bancshares, Inc). is a
    $30.1 billion Southwestern financial holding company which operates
    385 full-service banking centers including 139 in Texas, 89 in
    Alabama, 73 in Arizona, 42 in Florida, 32 in Colorado and 10 in New
    Mexico.

    Of extraordinary interest to the DHS are Bank of America records
    relating to their Bank Of America <>'SafeSend Money to Mexico'<>
    program.

    It should be noted that the DHS states that "in the event that the
    owners of these confiscated objects do not file an administrative
    complaint within three (3) months subsequent to said confiscation, the
    aforesaid items shall pass to the permanent custody of the DHS"

    Isn't that wonderful? You and your wife are visiting relatives in
    France, Uncle Einar's $100,000 collection of gold coins is lifted out
    of your box and you don't get back to the United States for two months
    and don't check your looted box for another four months. My, some nice
    DHS person, or maybe two, has a nice new BMW to show off to his
    neighbors. Tough luck, Uncle Einar!

    Oh, and you might like to know that the spate of "robberies" of bank
    credit card and personal data that took place in and around February
    of 2005, were not robberies at all. The DHS, using its muscle, simply
    went off with trucks full of data to mine at their leisure. The banks
    involved said nothing, and will say nothing. If they do, their people
    will be at a nice Federal country club, making shoes for the Army
    while the DHS bosses, to include the FEMA thieves, will be buying
    property on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills or Palm Desert. Or some nice
    marina like Marine del Ray to keep their nice new 150' yacht.

    To date, in California alone (the only report I have seen) over 1,500
    banks have been "visited" and boxes rifled between January, 2005 and
    January, 2006.




  • #2
    DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under

    On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:29:53 -0600, Marine <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    IMPORTANT AND URGENT WARNING FOR ANYONE WITH A BANK SAFE DEPOSIT BOX:U.S DEPARTMENT OF HOMELANDSECURITY HAS TOLD BANKS - IN WRITING - IT MAY INSPECT SAFE DEPOSITBOXES WITHOUT WARRANT AND SIEZE ANY GOLD, SILVER GUNS OR OTHERVALUABLES IT FINDS INSIDE THOSE BOXES!
    (details snipped)

    American banks are, for all practical purposes, agents of
    the Federal Government. While it is just about impossible
    to do business without using the banks, do NOT place your
    valuables in a bank safe deposit box. Considering the risk
    of government seizure, it is probably safer to keep them in
    a safe at home.

    --
    Robert Sturgeon
    Summum ius summa inuria.
    http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/

    Comment


    • #3
      DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under

      Robert Sturgeon <[email protected]> wrote in
      news:[email protected]:
      On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:29:53 -0600, Marine <[email protected]> wrote:
      IMPORTANT AND URGENT WARNING FOR ANYONE WITH A BANK SAFE DEPOSIT BOX:U.S DEPARTMENT OF HOMELANDSECURITY HAS TOLD BANKS - IN WRITING - IT MAY INSPECT SAFE DEPOSITBOXES WITHOUT WARRANT AND SIEZE ANY GOLD, SILVER GUNS OR OTHERVALUABLES IT FINDS INSIDE THOSE BOXES!
      (details snipped) American banks are, for all practical purposes, agents of the Federal Government. While it is just about impossible to do business without using the banks, do NOT place your valuables in a bank safe deposit box. Considering the risk of government seizure, it is probably safer to keep them in a safe at home. -- Robert Sturgeon Summum ius summa inuria. http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/

      I recommend an ISM Super Diamond TX/TR/TL 60 x6

      Actually, it's overkill for most, but it sure is a beauty (it's very rare
      to see anything beyond TRTL30x6 which is itself a ****ed good level).

      http://www.ism-safes.co.il/new/superdiamond.asp

      Regards,

      Comment


      • #4
        DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under

        In article <[email protected]>,
        [email protected] says...
        American banks are, for all practical purposes, agents ofthe Federal Government. While it is just about impossibleto do business without using the banks, do NOT place yourvaluables in a bank safe deposit box. Considering the riskof government seizure, it is probably safer to keep them ina safe at home.
        Nah. They will blow your safe. Better under the bed or even better, in
        the privy out back.

        Comment


        • #5
          DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under


          "nemo_outis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
          Robert Sturgeon <[email protected]com> wrote in news:[email protected]: I recommend an ISM Super Diamond TX/TR/TL 60 x6
          that looks real expensive


          Comment


          • #6
            DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants.Claims a right under

            Who is reporting this stuff???

            Comment


            • #7
              DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under

              On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:53:22 -0000, tg wrote:
              "nemo_outis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
              Robert Sturgeon <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]: I recommend an ISM Super Diamond TX/TR/TL 60 x6
              that looks real expensive
              And no biometrics to validate the opening of it. wow, really wunnerful.
              --
              Drop the alphabet for email

              Comment


              • #8
                DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under

                On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:15:18 -0800, Robert Sturgeon
                <[email protected]> wrote:

                |>On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:29:53 -0600, Marine <[email protected]>
                |>wrote:
                |>
                |>>IMPORTANT AND URGENT WARNING FOR ANYONE WITH A BANK SAFE DEPOSIT BOX:
                |>>U.S DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
                |>>SECURITY HAS TOLD BANKS - IN WRITING - IT MAY INSPECT SAFE DEPOSIT
                |>>BOXES WITHOUT WARRANT AND SIEZE ANY GOLD, SILVER GUNS OR OTHER
                |>>VALUABLES IT FINDS INSIDE THOSE BOXES!
                |>
                |>(details snipped)
                |>
                |>American banks are, for all practical purposes, agents of
                |>the Federal Government. While it is just about impossible
                |>to do business without using the banks, do NOT place your
                |>valuables in a bank safe deposit box. Considering the risk
                |>of government seizure, it is probably safer to keep them in
                |>a safe at home.

                Only if you buy a safe and install it yourself. Believe it or not
                some people order a safe installed by a Australian security firm with
                a garishly painted vehicle.

                People in cities do like to gossip, and such an installation is
                unlikely to pass un-noticed.

                So if "X" has a safe installed, the neighbors will wonder why he needs
                a safe. Gold? Large amounts of cash? Drugs? Guns?

                Speculation will be rife, and the story will be exaggerated as time
                goes on, which is one of the main characteristics of gossip.

                After the first week or so, the buyer of the safe might as well put up
                a sign or place an ad in the local paper identifying himself as a good
                target for a burgulary, home invasion, kidnapping, or whatever.

                Much the same considerations apply to the installation of a commercial
                home alarm system. Far better to do it yourself.

                Librarians have complained that the Gov't wants to know what books
                have been borrowed by patrons.

                Presumably the Gov't wants to know who is checking out books on
                explosives, terrorism, reading subversive literature, etc.

                Now if they are checking safe deposit boxes, why shouldn't they be
                checking on who is installing safes, alarm systems, etc?

                So if our hypothetical person "X" is storing gold, it might be just as
                safe, or safer, to keep it in the bank as to keep it at home.

                However, everyone has to make up their own mind on these points.
                ....Everything is a matter of relative risk assessment.

                Posting from misc.survivalism

                Cheers,
                [email protected]

                Comment


                • #9
                  DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under

                  In article <[email protected]>, zadoc
                  <[email protected]> wrote:
                  On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:15:18 -0800, Robert Sturgeon <[email protected]> wrote: |>On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:29:53 -0600, Marine <[email protected]> |>wrote: |> |>>IMPORTANT AND URGENT WARNING FOR ANYONE WITH A BANK SAFE DEPOSIT BOX: |>>U.S DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND |>>SECURITY HAS TOLD BANKS - IN WRITING - IT MAY INSPECT SAFE DEPOSIT |>>BOXES WITHOUT WARRANT AND SIEZE ANY GOLD, SILVER GUNS OR OTHER |>>VALUABLES IT FINDS INSIDE THOSE BOXES! |>
                  The solution is one of those gizmos that detonates lightly when a box
                  is opened improperly. Pack it with potassium cyanide and maybe 2-3
                  agents or bank narcs will get kilt.

                  Not quite the destruction of a quarter of a million Washington
                  burrowcrats and even more welfare mutant negroes, but it's a start.

                  About 40 milliion Zionists, Jews, negroes, liberals, and
                  Republicans-who-used-to-have-good-principles need killing.

                  Allah Aqbar, soon enough.


                  --Tim May

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under

                    On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:51:38 -0500, Gogarty <[email protected]>
                    wrote:

                    |>In article <[email protected]>,
                    |>[email protected] says...
                    |>
                    |>>American banks are, for all practical purposes, agents of
                    |>>the Federal Government. While it is just about impossible
                    |>>to do business without using the banks, do NOT place your
                    |>>valuables in a bank safe deposit box. Considering the risk
                    |>>of government seizure, it is probably safer to keep them in
                    |>>a safe at home.
                    |>>
                    |>Nah. They will blow your safe. Better under the bed or even better, in
                    |>the privy out back.

                    Would tend to agree with you. Any safe is openable giving time and
                    skill, even if they have to haul it off and work on it at their
                    leisure. Or simply forcing the owner to open it.

                    Admittedly, a pit toilet is probably an excellent hiding place. Some
                    others are reasonably common. In the sand on the bottom of an indoor
                    fishtank. Frozen in ice cubes in a refrigerator. Wrapped in liver
                    and frozen in the freezer.

                    The average home offers lots of possible hiding places, depending on
                    ones creativity and level of mechanical skill.

                    A few decades ago one reasonably clever consumer solution was a phony
                    power point [US "electrical outlet"] which was actually a tiny safe.
                    Too obvious for the average burgular to think of, and takes advantage
                    of the fact that many people are scared of electricity.

                    Unfortunately, once start advertising such a device, then the thieves
                    find a way around it.

                    If were talking long term storage of gold, the "privy" [or "pit
                    toilet"] is great. However, it isn't that easy to quickly recover in
                    an emergency.

                    Of course, there is a trade-off here. If it is easy to recover in an
                    emergency, such as storing it in the sand of your fishtank, it is also
                    easy to find on a quick search. Hard to recover from the pit toilet
                    quickly, but most searchers aren't all that dedicated.

                    A good metal detector would probably pick it up, though. So, off the
                    top of my head, perhaps one solution would be to make this detection
                    difficult.

                    Lets see, with gold, perhaps dig a trench in the backyard with a
                    rented "Ditch Witch" which digs a narrow trench around 3 or 4 feet
                    deep. Dig trench, line bottom with gold bars during the night.

                    Early next morning, turn off water, cut and thread pipe, run a
                    galvanized pipe off existing water system to a riser and faucet at the
                    end of the run. Backfill trench with shovel, plant grass.

                    Perhaps put a bush or two, or a couple of small trees at the end of
                    the run to justify the existence of the new watering outlet.

                    Will the best metal detector on the market pick up the gold bars or
                    just the pipe? Must admit that I don't know offhand. Perhaps someone
                    on misc.survivalism will know.

                    Of course, a bit of scrap iron mixed with the trench backfill could
                    complicate things. :-)

                    So could an hand dug pit, or an old septic tank filled with scrap iron
                    & concrete, as this would look suspicious, but be unproductive to dig
                    out. Robbers wouldn't want to spend the time or have the equipment
                    .... or the intellegence, for that matter.

                    As any stage magician would know, the essence of the art is
                    misdirection :-)

                    Posting from misc.survivalism after a bit of a problem with the
                    system, will take me a while to catch up.

                    Cheers,



                    [email protected]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under

                      On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:47:38 -0800, Tim May
                      <[email protected]> wrote:

                      |>In article <[email protected]>, zadoc
                      |><[email protected]> wrote:
                      |>
                      |>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:15:18 -0800, Robert Sturgeon
                      |>> <[email protected]> wrote:
                      |>>
                      |>> |>On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:29:53 -0600, Marine <[email protected]>
                      |>> |>wrote:
                      |>> |>
                      |>> |>>IMPORTANT AND URGENT WARNING FOR ANYONE WITH A BANK SAFE DEPOSIT BOX:
                      |>> |>>U.S DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
                      |>> |>>SECURITY HAS TOLD BANKS - IN WRITING - IT MAY INSPECT SAFE DEPOSIT
                      |>> |>>BOXES WITHOUT WARRANT AND SIEZE ANY GOLD, SILVER GUNS OR OTHER
                      |>> |>>VALUABLES IT FINDS INSIDE THOSE BOXES!
                      |>> |>
                      |>
                      |>The solution is one of those gizmos that detonates lightly when a box
                      |>is opened improperly. Pack it with potassium cyanide and maybe 2-3
                      |>agents or bank narcs will get kilt.

                      Hmm, Tim, perhaps you are slipping a little? How do you want to
                      define "box is opened improperly"?

                      To explain this, lets go back to the reason that hotels provide
                      individual keys to rooms.

                      A century or so ago, a hotel or roadhouse provided a room or rooms in
                      which all travellers slept.

                      From a legal point of view, the problem with this was that the
                      landlord had a legal obligation to protect one guest from another.

                      These days, if you rent a hotel room, even in a cheap hotel, the hotel
                      provides you a key to your "own" room, the one you have just rented
                      for the night.

                      Therefore, legally, they are "less responsible" for you, as you now
                      theoretically control access to that room.

                      For the sake of arguement, though, suppose you have a massive coronary
                      or stroke while spending the night there. You pick up the bedside
                      phone and manage to mutter "help!"

                      Do you really think that you have the only key and they will have to
                      kick down the door or something?

                      Nope, there are levels of keying, even on primitive pin tumbler lock
                      systems. If you know how a pin tumbler lock works, which would have
                      thought you would, you would know that there can be multiple pins,
                      just as a warded lock can have multiple wards, or a lever action key
                      can have passkeys.

                      So to skip to the end of the levels of hotel keying, there is a "grand
                      master" key which will open most, if not all, locks in the hotel.

                      Accept this so far?

                      OK, now lets go a step further. Suppose person "X" rents a safe
                      deposit box at bank "Y". Supposedly he gets a key, they have a key,
                      and it requires both the customer key and the bank master key to open
                      the box.

                      To put it on a personal level, suppose you are person "X" and I own,
                      or manage, bank "Y".

                      You die. Your lawyer and/or the government demands access to your
                      safe deposit box.

                      Do you really think I am going to have to recruit a burgular to access
                      your safe deposit box? With the possibility of damaging adjoining
                      boxes?

                      Nope, doesn't work this way. I, as the bank manager, would have a
                      grand master key which would open any box in the vault, when used in
                      conjuction with the normal bank key.

                      The "grand master key" would substitute for any or all customer keys.
                      It would be kept in a high secutity area, may require a court order to
                      use, and so on...but it would be available if needed.

                      So, if I was ordered by the goverenment to provide access to your safe
                      deposit box, the odds are you would never even know it.

                      Sure, I know that there further obvious "defensive" possibilities, but
                      am hardly likely to discuss them on an open group.

                      |>
                      |>Not quite the destruction of a quarter of a million Washington
                      |>burrowcrats and even more welfare mutant negroes, but it's a start.
                      |>
                      |>About 40 milliion Zionists, Jews, negroes, liberals, and
                      |>Republicans-who-used-to-have-good-principles need killing.
                      |>
                      |>Allah Aqbar, soon enough.
                      |>
                      |>
                      |>--Tim May
                      Gone Muslim, have you?

                      Or do you just have the ****s with the world, as many intellegent
                      people do?

                      You need not answer this question, of course!

                      I do notice that you had sense enough not to have had any children.

                      Posting from misc.survivalism

                      Cheers,



                      [email protected]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under


                        "zadoc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                        news:[email protected]
                        You die. Your lawyer and/or the government demands access to your safe deposit box. Do you really think I am going to have to recruit a burgular to access your safe deposit box? With the possibility of damaging adjoining boxes? Nope, doesn't work this way. I, as the bank manager, would have a grand master key which would open any box in the vault, when used in conjuction with the normal bank key.
                        I don't know if that's how it works on your side of the world, but over here
                        there is no master key. When a security box needs to be opened without both
                        the customer's key and the attendant's key, a locksmith is called in and
                        physically drills out the lockset.


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under

                          On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:50:45 -0600, "Jerry" <[email protected]> wrote:

                          |>
                          |>"zadoc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                          |>news:[email protected] ..
                          |>> You die. Your lawyer and/or the government demands access to your
                          |>> safe deposit box.
                          |>>
                          |>> Do you really think I am going to have to recruit a burgular to access
                          |>> your safe deposit box? With the possibility of damaging adjoining
                          |>> boxes?
                          |>>
                          |>> Nope, doesn't work this way. I, as the bank manager, would have a
                          |>> grand master key which would open any box in the vault, when used in
                          |>> conjuction with the normal bank key.
                          |>
                          |>I don't know if that's how it works on your side of the world, but over here
                          |>there is no master key. When a security box needs to be opened without both
                          |>the customer's key and the attendant's key, a locksmith is called in and
                          |>physically drills out the lockset.
                          |>
                          Well, I must admit that I have no particular expertise in this area.
                          To me, a grand master key would seem more sensible.

                          However, the end result would be the same. Both the use of the grand
                          master key and the locksmith would presumably require official legal
                          approval with police or government representatives present.

                          So if either is required, why require the presence or the talents of
                          the locksmith?

                          ......Especially since that an experienced locksmith wouldn't need to
                          drill the lock, he could just pick it. You don't really think that
                          anything with a keyway is "unpickable" do you?

                          Allow me to suggest a milder example: "X" rents a safe deposit box
                          and simply mislays or loses his key. Are you suggesting that "X"
                          cannot access that box unless & until he finds it?

                          Easy enough to check, of course. Go down to your local bank, rent a
                          safe deposit box, put a copy of this email into it, then go back a
                          couple of months later and tell them you have lost or mislaid your
                          key.

                          See how much trouble they have getting into the box. :-)

                          I doubt that they will have to call in a locksmith to drill it.

                          If they do, who pays for the services of the locksmith?

                          Which, in turn, suggests a simpler way to find out. Go to your
                          friendly local bank. Ask to speak to the manager. Tell him you want
                          to rent a safe deposit box for some unknown purpose.

                          When he agrees that that will be no problem, then ask him what happens
                          if you should lose the key to it.

                          After all, keys are often lost or stolen. Ask how you would get into
                          the safety deposit box then and how much it would cost you to do so.

                          Please let the groups know what answer you get. :-)

                          Posting from misc.survivalism,
                          Cheers,





                          [email protected]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants. Claims a right under

                            In article <[email protected]>,
                            zadoc <[email protected]> wrote:

                            So could an hand dug pit, or an old septic tank filled with scrap iron & concrete, as this would look suspicious, but be unproductive to dig out. Robbers wouldn't want to spend the time or have the equipment ... or the intellegence, for that matter.
                            <sigh> Around here, Northern Ohio, you have to have your old septic tank
                            top crushed and the hole filled with dirt once you go on public sewer
                            system.

                            For all that, I don't really miss maintaining a septic tank.
                            As any stage magician would know, the essence of the art is misdirection :-)
                            Hiding things in plain sight. The Purloined 1911 anyone?
                            Posting from misc.survivalism after a bit of a problem with the system, will take me a while to catch up. Cheers, [email protected]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              DHS Agents to search Safe Deposit Boxes WITHOUT Search Warrants.Claims a right under

                              zadoc wrote:
                              <snip>
                              In the US, it's real simple...

                              You lose the keys (The renter is always given 2 keys.), you pay
                              to have the box opened.

                              Why don't they use a "master key?" Because it can be duplicated.

                              Notan

                              Comment

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