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  • Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

    I'm in quite a stew right now, and hoping some kind souls here can
    offer up some advice.

    Some history: I purchased a home in September of 2002, my first. At
    the time I went into the deal, I only had about $4000 in credit card
    debt, along with a car loan. Immediately, I invested $4000 in
    appliances and $4000 in furniture.

    Unfortunately, at this same time I began to experience a sharp decline
    in my health. I get no restorative sleep, which leaves me with zero
    energy during the daytime. I took a medical leave of absence from
    work, what I hoped would be a short-term leave.

    A year later, my health has not improved an inch. And in the interim,
    I've accrued an absurd amount of debt. In addition to the $12,000 owed
    right off the bat, plus a $5,000 balance on the car, I owe:

    $7,000 on a credit union loan card...

    $7,000 on a secured loan...

    $10,000 in credit card debt.

    For a long time, I utilized the "rob Peter to pay Paul" technique, and
    also used these cards to buy food, gas, medical supplies, etc. I
    earned approximately $11,000 this year with freelance writing
    assignments and sports wagering. What all this means is that...

    1. I have yet to miss a mortgage payment, car payment, or ANY bill of
    any kind.

    2. I am no closer to finding my health and have exhausted my financial
    resources.

    First lawyer I spoke to said, "Why declare BK? That would be to
    protect your income! You have no income! They can't sue you. Let them
    - sue you for what? What if you rack up medical bills a month from
    now? You can only do this once."

    Second lawyer said, "Yeah, better do it."

    First lawyer makes more sense to me, in a perverse way. Honestly, the
    thought of declaring BK drives me up the wall, as I worked VERY hard
    to make a good name for myself, and my physical ailments are beyond my
    control. My worst fear is declaring BK and then managing to resolve
    them a month later.

    As of right now, I plan on selling my house to remove that
    responsibility from my table. I'm fortunate to have family that can
    prove free room and board until I improve. That removes an $800
    mortgage, $300 utilities, etc. from my plate.

    However, with that gone, I still have $1300 in car/credit/loan minimum
    payments every month, nearly impossible to keep up with. Yes, I could
    sell my car, removing $200. That leaves $1100 in obligations until a
    more permanent solution is found.

    As to my questions...

    1. If I sell the house and then declare bankruptcy, what will happen
    when Sears (my appliance creditor) realizes I no longer have those
    items in my possession? Technically, I actually managed to pay off
    that entire balance during the year, but then purchased a TV and DVD
    player that I soon sold off for the cash. I also purchased central air
    for the home, which obviously remains there. Worse comes to worse, I
    don't mind owing Sears $1300 for the TV/DVD (in light of this huge
    ball of debt now present), but will they object to that central air
    unit no longer under my ownership? Would they want those appliances as
    substitute security? Would they harrass the new owners?

    2. I did not manage to pay Raymour/Flanigan this year for the
    furniture. If I move, I do not want to move these items and would
    prefer to sell them off to sustain myself a bit longer. What are the
    legal ramifications of doing so? Is this really fraud? What can they
    do besides sue me for the amount owed if I can not display ownership?
    Can they go after the private purchasers? What if I refuse to give
    them that information?

    3. Same question for the secured loan I took out - what if I sell off
    that collateral now?

    4. What happens if I move and leave no trace of forwarding
    information, and simply stop paying bills until my health is under
    control and I find a way to start a cash flow again? Would I
    eventually be "Wanted"?

    BK is my LAST preference here. However, the negative cash flow is
    crippling me and the stress is having even more undue effect on my
    health. I'm not sure my financial ruin would be a good alternative,
    though. Any advice appreciated. I am under New York State law. Thank
    you.

  • #2
    Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

    [email protected] (Royler) wrote in message news:<[email protected] com>...
    BK is my LAST preference here. However, the negative cash flow is crippling me and the stress is having even more undue effect on my health. I'm not sure my financial ruin would be a good alternative, though. Any advice appreciated. I am under New York State law. Thank you.
    You have debts which you cannot pay from your income. So you are
    already bankrupt. One way to deal with being bankrupt is to declare
    bankruptcy.

    Comment


    • #3
      Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

      [email protected] (Royler) wrote in message news:<[email protected] com>...
      ...
      1. If I sell the house and then declare bankruptcy, what will happen when Sears (my appliance creditor) realizes I no longer have those items in my possession? Technically, I actually managed to pay off that entire balance during the year, but then purchased a TV and DVD player that I soon sold off for the cash. I also purchased central air for the home, which obviously remains there. Worse comes to worse, I don't mind owing Sears $1300 for the TV/DVD (in light of this huge ball of debt now present), but will they object to that central air unit no longer under my ownership? Would they want those appliances as substitute security? Would they harrass the new owners?
      Sears has a reputation as a difficult creditor. One of the Big Three
      difficult debtors, along with the IRS and American Express. In fact,
      Sears are one of the few creditors who actually send representatives
      to creditors' meetings. (AmEx rarely attends the meetings, and the IRS
      doesn't have to because tax debts are not dischargeable.)

      It sounds like you are off the hook for everything but the TV/DVD
      player. Sears may very well claim that the TV was collateral for the
      loan you took out to buy it--- which means they may very well claim
      that the debt is not dischargeable and that you will still owe them
      the $1300 (in your case) even after your bankruptcy is granted. A
      good lawyer will have dealt with Sears before and should know how to
      get them off your case (as much as possible, at least.)

      --Tim

      Comment


      • #4
        Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

        "Royler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
        news:[email protected] om...
        I'm in quite a stew right now, and hoping some kind souls here can offer up some advice. Some history: I purchased a home in September of 2002, my first. At the time I went into the deal, I only had about $4000 in credit card debt, along with a car loan. Immediately, I invested $4000 in appliances and $4000 in furniture. Unfortunately, at this same time I began to experience a sharp decline in my health. I get no restorative sleep, which leaves me with zero energy during the daytime. I took a medical leave of absence from work, what I hoped would be a short-term leave.
        Regarding your health issue, have you seen a neurologist? This sounds like
        classic sleep apnea (obstructive or CNS, doesn't matter which), possibly
        combined with myoclonus (involuntary muscle spasm during sleep, just as
        disturbing to one's sleep patterns as sleep apnea). I am not a doctor; I'm
        simply very familiar with issue. A neurologist could schedule a sleep
        study, to determine the type and extent of your sleep disorder, and
        prescribe appropriate treatment. If your problem is obstructive sleep
        apnea, there are devices available that can give you back decent nights'
        sleep. Likewise, there are prescriptions available that can suppress
        myoclonus and allow you to get decent nights' sleep.

        A year later, my health has not improved an inch. And in the interim, I've accrued an absurd amount of debt. In addition to the $12,000 owed right off the bat, plus a $5,000 balance on the car, I owe: $7,000 on a credit union loan card... $7,000 on a secured loan... $10,000 in credit card debt. For a long time, I utilized the "rob Peter to pay Paul" technique, and also used these cards to buy food, gas, medical supplies, etc. I earned approximately $11,000 this year with freelance writing assignments and sports wagering. What all this means is that... 1. I have yet to miss a mortgage payment, car payment, or ANY bill of any kind. 2. I am no closer to finding my health and have exhausted my financial resources. First lawyer I spoke to said, "Why declare BK? That would be to protect your income! You have no income! They can't sue you. Let them - sue you for what? What if you rack up medical bills a month from now? You can only do this once." Second lawyer said, "Yeah, better do it." First lawyer makes more sense to me, in a perverse way. Honestly, the thought of declaring BK drives me up the wall, as I worked VERY hard to make a good name for myself, and my physical ailments are beyond my control. My worst fear is declaring BK and then managing to resolve them a month later. As of right now, I plan on selling my house to remove that responsibility from my table. I'm fortunate to have family that can prove free room and board until I improve. That removes an $800 mortgage, $300 utilities, etc. from my plate. However, with that gone, I still have $1300 in car/credit/loan minimum payments every month, nearly impossible to keep up with. Yes, I could sell my car, removing $200. That leaves $1100 in obligations until a more permanent solution is found. As to my questions... 1. If I sell the house and then declare bankruptcy, what will happen when Sears (my appliance creditor) realizes I no longer have those items in my possession? Technically, I actually managed to pay off that entire balance during the year, but then purchased a TV and DVD player that I soon sold off for the cash. I also purchased central air for the home, which obviously remains there. Worse comes to worse, I don't mind owing Sears $1300 for the TV/DVD (in light of this huge ball of debt now present), but will they object to that central air unit no longer under my ownership? Would they want those appliances as substitute security? Would they harrass the new owners?
        Sears is notorious for enforcing their security interest on debts owed and
        discharged in BK. They'll likely come after you for whatever they can get.
        Note however that I had a balance with Sears that was discharged in my BK7,
        and they didn't send anyone to the 341 or send a reaffirmation letter or any
        sort of legal threat....
        2. I did not manage to pay Raymour/Flanigan this year for the furniture. If I move, I do not want to move these items and would prefer to sell them off to sustain myself a bit longer. What are the legal ramifications of doing so? Is this really fraud? What can they do besides sue me for the amount owed if I can not display ownership? Can they go after the private purchasers? What if I refuse to give them that information?
        Well, if they DO have a security interest in the furniture, and you sell the
        furniture knowing full well that you were intending to file BK, and they
        could PROVE it, it probably would be fraud. Ask Brett or Thoth, they're
        lawyers; I'm not, I'm just an interested bystander.
        3. Same question for the secured loan I took out - what if I sell off that collateral now?
        See above.
        4. What happens if I move and leave no trace of forwarding information, and simply stop paying bills until my health is under control and I find a way to start a cash flow again? Would I eventually be "Wanted"?
        That's not viable. Short of leaving the country and moving somewhere where
        the Credit Reporting Agencies can't reach, you're not going to get away from
        the effects of stiffing your creditors, since defaulting on all obligations
        will utterly WRECK your FICO scores with all three CRAs. Do you really want
        to run away from your obligations? Wouldn't it be simpler to declare
        Chapter 7 bankruptcy while it's still available to you as an option, and get
        the burden of all this debt off your back once and for all?
        BK is my LAST preference here. However, the negative cash flow is crippling me and the stress is having even more undue effect on my health. I'm not sure my financial ruin would be a good alternative, though. Any advice appreciated. I am under New York State law. Thank you.
        BK is hardly financial ruin. Less than two years out of BK7, my FICOs are
        in the low-to-mid 600s (TU 624, EXP 618, EQU 669). Not bad, all things
        considered.

        --P


        Comment


        • #5
          Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

          "PWB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
          Regarding your health issue, have you seen a neurologist? This
          sounds like
          classic sleep apnea (obstructive or CNS, doesn't matter which), possibly combined with myoclonus (involuntary muscle spasm during sleep, just as disturbing to one's sleep patterns as sleep apnea). I am not a doctor; I'm simply very familiar with issue. A neurologist could schedule a sleep study, to determine the type and extent of your sleep disorder, and prescribe appropriate treatment. If your problem is obstructive sleep apnea, there are devices available that can give you back decent nights' sleep. Likewise, there are prescriptions available that can suppress myoclonus and allow you to get decent nights' sleep.
          Ahhh...believe me, I didn't just sit idle. I've had four sleep studies
          to date, all of which displayed "mild" apnea. but even on CPAP at a
          titrated 8cm, I still exhibit around 50 "unexplained" arousals a night
          and no deep sleep whatsoever. Doctors are at a loss. I'm sure
          specialists out in NYC or CA are in my future, but that takes time and
          money I don't have. Personally, I don't buy the apnea diagnosis, as
          I'm only 25 and at a natural weight and physical formity. Something
          keeps knocking me out of deep sleep, and the sleep doc doesn't know
          what. When I try to impress upon him my personal and professional
          ruin, he labels me "depressed." Being a good sport, I tried the
          antidepressants, and while they can certainly elevate my mood, I'm
          still so tired I spend most days confined to a chair. It's comical.
          Well, if they DO have a security interest in the furniture, and you sell the furniture knowing full well that you were intending to file BK, and they could PROVE it, it probably would be fraud. Ask Brett or Thoth, they're lawyers; I'm not, I'm just an interested bystander.
          Yes, I would definitely like an answer for this.
          4. What happens if I move and leave no trace of forwarding
          information, and simply stop paying bills until my health is under control and I find a way to start a cash flow again? Would I eventually be "Wanted"?
          That's not viable. Short of leaving the country and moving somewhere where the Credit Reporting Agencies can't reach, you're not going to get away from the effects of stiffing your creditors, since defaulting on all obligations will utterly WRECK your FICO scores with all three CRAs. Do you really want to run away from your obligations? Wouldn't it be simpler to declare Chapter 7 bankruptcy while it's still available to you as an option, and get
          Well, my intention in doing that would not be to dodge my
          responsibility, but to avoid BK for as long as possible so I can pay
          the debt back. It's quite concievable that I could declare BK, and a
          month later, find a "cure" for my ailment. My debt is impressive but
          not mammoth. Living with family for one year, a year's salary at my
          former job would pretty much wipe it out. Two, if you count mounting
          interest and some money to actually exist on.
          BK is hardly financial ruin. Less than two years out of BK7, my FICOs are in the low-to-mid 600s (TU 624, EXP 618, EQU 669). Not bad, all things considered.
          It's still incredibly discouraging for me and I fear the ensuing
          stress and mental anguish is simply going to make my physical
          condition worse.

          Comment


          • #6
            Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

            From your first post, and from experienceing the same exact symptoms 5 years
            ago, I labeled it as depression. As with any anti-depressant, you need to
            take it religiously for 3+ months for them to be fully effective. If you
            just took them for 3-6 weeks, they didn't do anything for you.

            Zoloft did the trick for me, has no negative effects that I have
            experienced, has no noticable effect (grogginess, fuzziness, etc) and I
            sleep like a rock now.


            "Royler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
            news:[email protected] om...
            "PWB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
            news:<[email protected]>...
            Regarding your health issue, have you seen a neurologist? This sounds like
            classic sleep apnea (obstructive or CNS, doesn't matter which), possibly combined with myoclonus (involuntary muscle spasm during sleep, just as disturbing to one's sleep patterns as sleep apnea). I am not a doctor;
            I'm
            simply very familiar with issue. A neurologist could schedule a sleep study, to determine the type and extent of your sleep disorder, and prescribe appropriate treatment. If your problem is obstructive sleep apnea, there are devices available that can give you back decent nights' sleep. Likewise, there are prescriptions available that can suppress myoclonus and allow you to get decent nights' sleep. Ahhh...believe me, I didn't just sit idle. I've had four sleep studies to date, all of which displayed "mild" apnea. but even on CPAP at a titrated 8cm, I still exhibit around 50 "unexplained" arousals a night and no deep sleep whatsoever. Doctors are at a loss. I'm sure specialists out in NYC or CA are in my future, but that takes time and money I don't have. Personally, I don't buy the apnea diagnosis, as I'm only 25 and at a natural weight and physical formity. Something keeps knocking me out of deep sleep, and the sleep doc doesn't know what. When I try to impress upon him my personal and professional ruin, he labels me "depressed." Being a good sport, I tried the antidepressants, and while they can certainly elevate my mood, I'm still so tired I spend most days confined to a chair. It's comical.
            Well, if they DO have a security interest in the furniture, and you sell
            the
            furniture knowing full well that you were intending to file BK, and they could PROVE it, it probably would be fraud. Ask Brett or Thoth, they're lawyers; I'm not, I'm just an interested bystander. Yes, I would definitely like an answer for this.
            4. What happens if I move and leave no trace of forwarding
            information, and simply stop paying bills until my health is under control and I find a way to start a cash flow again? Would I eventually be "Wanted"?
            That's not viable. Short of leaving the country and moving somewhere
            where
            the Credit Reporting Agencies can't reach, you're not going to get away
            from
            the effects of stiffing your creditors, since defaulting on all
            obligations
            will utterly WRECK your FICO scores with all three CRAs. Do you really
            want
            to run away from your obligations? Wouldn't it be simpler to declare Chapter 7 bankruptcy while it's still available to you as an option, and
            get
            Well, my intention in doing that would not be to dodge my responsibility, but to avoid BK for as long as possible so I can pay the debt back. It's quite concievable that I could declare BK, and a month later, find a "cure" for my ailment. My debt is impressive but not mammoth. Living with family for one year, a year's salary at my former job would pretty much wipe it out. Two, if you count mounting interest and some money to actually exist on.
            BK is hardly financial ruin. Less than two years out of BK7, my FICOs
            are
            in the low-to-mid 600s (TU 624, EXP 618, EQU 669). Not bad, all things considered. It's still incredibly discouraging for me and I fear the ensuing stress and mental anguish is simply going to make my physical condition worse.

            Comment


            • #7
              Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!


              "Royler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
              news:[email protected] om...
              "PWB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
              news:<[email protected]>...
              Regarding your health issue, have you seen a neurologist? This sounds like
              classic sleep apnea (obstructive or CNS, doesn't matter which), possibly combined with myoclonus (involuntary muscle spasm during sleep, just as disturbing to one's sleep patterns as sleep apnea). I am not a doctor;
              I'm
              simply very familiar with issue. A neurologist could schedule a sleep study, to determine the type and extent of your sleep disorder, and prescribe appropriate treatment. If your problem is obstructive sleep apnea, there are devices available that can give you back decent nights' sleep. Likewise, there are prescriptions available that can suppress myoclonus and allow you to get decent nights' sleep. Ahhh...believe me, I didn't just sit idle. I've had four sleep studies to date, all of which displayed "mild" apnea. but even on CPAP at a titrated 8cm, I still exhibit around 50 "unexplained" arousals a night and no deep sleep whatsoever. Doctors are at a loss. I'm sure specialists out in NYC or CA are in my future, but that takes time and money I don't have. Personally, I don't buy the apnea diagnosis, as I'm only 25 and at a natural weight and physical formity. Something keeps knocking me out of deep sleep, and the sleep doc doesn't know what. When I try to impress upon him my personal and professional ruin, he labels me "depressed." Being a good sport, I tried the antidepressants, and while they can certainly elevate my mood, I'm still so tired I spend most days confined to a chair. It's comical.
              Ask the neurologist if it might be central nervous system sleep apnea --
              that form of apnea quite often occurs in people at normal weight. That
              would explain the 50 unexplained arousals a night. Only problem is, it's
              harder to treat CNS apnea than obstructive apnea; however, the CNS apnea
              would still occur DESPITE the use of the CPAP. Just a thought.

              -P


              Comment


              • #8
                Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

                Well, first of all, you already know that your fall-back plan could be to
                file bankruptcy if necessary. To me, that means that you can try some other
                options first. And, as you said, your health situation could end up getting
                resolved a month from now. Along the health lines, you probably are already
                doing this, but just be sure that you give the antidepressant medication
                options a thorough try. There are all types of meds out there -- SSRI's,
                Wellbutrin, bipolar disorder meds, and others -- so make sure you have tried
                all of the alternatives before you give up on that option. That will take
                time.

                Moneywise, I would say don't sell your house. That will change it from
                becoming a liability to an income-producing asset. Go through a realtor who
                manages rental properties and rent it out. You'll eliminate your utilities,
                you'll get to keep your asset, and you'll probably make some money on the
                deal. Meanwhile, go back and live with your family. You are lucky because
                you have a place to live and can still keep your home and convert it to an
                income stream.

                Sell your car -- it's a liability, not an asset.

                Sell your furniture or other items that you don't really need and can
                convert to cash.

                Try to stay current on your credit cards and get them paid down. If you
                lost your full-time job, maybe you can do something part-time just to keep
                some income coming in.

                My guess is that you will turn this around for yourself even though you are
                feeling like you can't right now.

                Good luck.

                "Royler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                news:[email protected] om...
                I'm in quite a stew right now, and hoping some kind souls here can offer up some advice. Some history: I purchased a home in September of 2002, my first. At the time I went into the deal, I only had about $4000 in credit card debt, along with a car loan. Immediately, I invested $4000 in appliances and $4000 in furniture. Unfortunately, at this same time I began to experience a sharp decline in my health. I get no restorative sleep, which leaves me with zero energy during the daytime. I took a medical leave of absence from work, what I hoped would be a short-term leave. A year later, my health has not improved an inch. And in the interim, I've accrued an absurd amount of debt. In addition to the $12,000 owed right off the bat, plus a $5,000 balance on the car, I owe: $7,000 on a credit union loan card... $7,000 on a secured loan... $10,000 in credit card debt. For a long time, I utilized the "rob Peter to pay Paul" technique, and also used these cards to buy food, gas, medical supplies, etc. I earned approximately $11,000 this year with freelance writing assignments and sports wagering. What all this means is that... 1. I have yet to miss a mortgage payment, car payment, or ANY bill of any kind. 2. I am no closer to finding my health and have exhausted my financial resources. First lawyer I spoke to said, "Why declare BK? That would be to protect your income! You have no income! They can't sue you. Let them - sue you for what? What if you rack up medical bills a month from now? You can only do this once." Second lawyer said, "Yeah, better do it." First lawyer makes more sense to me, in a perverse way. Honestly, the thought of declaring BK drives me up the wall, as I worked VERY hard to make a good name for myself, and my physical ailments are beyond my control. My worst fear is declaring BK and then managing to resolve them a month later. As of right now, I plan on selling my house to remove that responsibility from my table. I'm fortunate to have family that can prove free room and board until I improve. That removes an $800 mortgage, $300 utilities, etc. from my plate. However, with that gone, I still have $1300 in car/credit/loan minimum payments every month, nearly impossible to keep up with. Yes, I could sell my car, removing $200. That leaves $1100 in obligations until a more permanent solution is found. As to my questions... 1. If I sell the house and then declare bankruptcy, what will happen when Sears (my appliance creditor) realizes I no longer have those items in my possession? Technically, I actually managed to pay off that entire balance during the year, but then purchased a TV and DVD player that I soon sold off for the cash. I also purchased central air for the home, which obviously remains there. Worse comes to worse, I don't mind owing Sears $1300 for the TV/DVD (in light of this huge ball of debt now present), but will they object to that central air unit no longer under my ownership? Would they want those appliances as substitute security? Would they harrass the new owners? 2. I did not manage to pay Raymour/Flanigan this year for the furniture. If I move, I do not want to move these items and would prefer to sell them off to sustain myself a bit longer. What are the legal ramifications of doing so? Is this really fraud? What can they do besides sue me for the amount owed if I can not display ownership? Can they go after the private purchasers? What if I refuse to give them that information? 3. Same question for the secured loan I took out - what if I sell off that collateral now? 4. What happens if I move and leave no trace of forwarding information, and simply stop paying bills until my health is under control and I find a way to start a cash flow again? Would I eventually be "Wanted"? BK is my LAST preference here. However, the negative cash flow is crippling me and the stress is having even more undue effect on my health. I'm not sure my financial ruin would be a good alternative, though. Any advice appreciated. I am under New York State law. Thank you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

                  >
                  Ask the neurologist if it might be central nervous system sleep apnea -- that form of apnea quite often occurs in people at normal weight. That would explain the 50 unexplained arousals a night. Only problem is, it's harder to treat CNS apnea than obstructive apnea; however, the CNS apnea would still occur DESPITE the use of the CPAP. Just a thought. -P
                  Guys,

                  I appreciate all the advice, re: my sleep problem, but this is not
                  really what I came here for. I've spent thousands of dollars on CPAP
                  machines, doctors, medications, tests, etc. Bottom line is, I wake up
                  at night, doctors do not know why, and because of that, my finances
                  are screwed. I've spent 12 hours a day on the Internet trying to find
                  solutions. I'm not really sure anybody can suggest anything I haven't
                  already tried or thought of, from warm milk to surgery.

                  FYI: central apnea will show up on a sleep study. I don't have it.

                  If someone could address my problems, re: Sears trying to reclaim
                  appliances, or selling those security interests, I would appreciate
                  it. The clock is ticking for me. Thanks.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

                    Oops, here's a re-write of the paragraph I wrote before:

                    Moneywise, I would say don't sell your house. Go through a realtor who
                    manages rental properties and rent it out. That will change your home from a
                    liability to an income-producing asset. You'll eliminate your utilities,
                    you'll get to keep your asset, and you'll probably make some money on the
                    deal. Meanwhile, go back and live with your family. You are lucky because
                    you have a place to live and can still keep your home and convert it to an
                    income stream.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

                      > ...and the IRS
                      doesn't have to because tax debts are not dischargeable.
                      This is not correct. So long as the debt isn't for trust fund
                      taxes, the returns were filed more than 3 years ago, and the
                      taxes were assessed more than 240 days ago, both federal and
                      state taxes are dischargeable.

                      --
                      Brett

                      ************************************************** ***************
                      * Personal Injury/Malpractice Bankruptcy *
                      * *
                      * BRETT WEISS, P.C. *
                      * Attorneys at Law *
                      * Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars *
                      * [email protected] *
                      * http://www.erols.com/lawyer *
                      * *
                      * Small Business Estates & Estate Planning *
                      ************************************************** ***************

                      The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only.
                      It isn't meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as
                      such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer
                      familiar with your state's laws who can review *all* of the facts
                      and the law applicable to your situation.
                      ************************************************** ***************


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

                        > > Well, if they DO have a security interest in the furniture,
                        and you sell the
                        furniture knowing full well that you were intending to file
                        BK, and they
                        could PROVE it, it probably would be fraud. Ask Brett or
                        Thoth, they're
                        lawyers; I'm not, I'm just an interested bystander. Yes, I would definitely like an answer for this.
                        As a practical matter, it is very unlikely that such a creditor
                        will take any action against you after a bankruptcy. It isn't
                        cost-effective to hire a lawyer, file a replevin action, serve
                        you, win a judgment, levy on the furniture, hire an auctioneer,
                        post a bond, and sell it...and end up losing money.
                        Well, my intention in doing that would not be to dodge my responsibility, but to avoid BK for as long as possible so I
                        can pay
                        the debt back.
                        The problem is that this will cost you a great deal of money, and
                        when you run out, you're in the same predicament, only without
                        the money you paid them. And if you obtain new employment or
                        Congress passes BARF, you may not be able to qualify for a
                        Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

                        My rule of thumb is that you file when your debts are at their
                        maximum and your assets are at your minimum. Waiting usually ends
                        up costing you money. Potentially a lot of money.

                        As far as stress is concerned, most of my clients find that
                        filing *removes* stress, rather than adding to it. The financial
                        situation is resolved, and your debts are wiped out. The
                        alternative is worrying about them, dealing with creditor calls
                        and letters, and worry about having to file for BR.

                        --
                        Brett

                        ************************************************** ***************
                        * Personal Injury/Malpractice Bankruptcy *
                        * *
                        * BRETT WEISS, P.C. *
                        * Attorneys at Law *
                        * Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars *
                        * [email protected] *
                        * http://www.erols.com/lawyer *
                        * *
                        * Small Business Estates & Estate Planning *
                        ************************************************** ***************

                        The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only.
                        It isn't meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as
                        such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer
                        familiar with your state's laws who can review *all* of the facts
                        and the law applicable to your situation.
                        ************************************************** ***************


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

                          "RacerT" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
                          Oops, here's a re-write of the paragraph I wrote before: Moneywise, I would say don't sell your house. Go through a realtor who manages rental properties and rent it out. That will change your home from a liability to an income-producing asset. You'll eliminate your utilities, you'll get to keep your asset, and you'll probably make some money on the deal. Meanwhile, go back and live with your family. You are lucky because you have a place to live and can still keep your home and convert it to an income stream.
                          I had thought of this. But, say I DO have to declare BK two months
                          from now, after I've done everything possible to avoid it. If the
                          house becomes involved and they foreclose, wouldn't that be a HUGE
                          mess with tenants? "Hey, I know we signed a year's lease, Joey, but,
                          um...the bank needs this back."

                          Also, I'd be concerned that the place would get trashed.

                          And frankly, one less "bill" with my name on it is an appealing
                          prospect.

                          Brett, thanks for your advice. I figure that, worse case, I could just
                          reaffirm the furniture debt, and though I'd have to pay for something
                          I no longer own, that's the bed I made for myself. Basically, I just
                          want to buy more time until my health improves, or I can claim
                          disability. Since I've been sick for a year, that would be a sizable
                          retroactive payment.

                          I know BK is not "The End", but I'm a person who has always had credit
                          to fall back on for emergencies, impulse purchases, etc...and no, it
                          never got out of hand until I became too sick to work.

                          Still thinking, but I appreciate this feedback. Thanks.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

                            "Royler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                            news:[email protected] om...
                            I had thought of this. But, say I DO have to declare BK two months from now, after I've done everything possible to avoid it. If the house becomes involved and they foreclose, wouldn't that be a HUGE mess with tenants? "Hey, I know we signed a year's lease, Joey, but, um...the bank needs this back." Also, I'd be concerned that the place would get trashed. And frankly, one less "bill" with my name on it is an appealing prospect.
                            All good points, although I don't think this issue about the tenants would
                            matter much if you were giving up the property. The rents would just go to
                            the bankruptcy trustee and/or the mortgage holder who did the foreclosure.

                            There is a "look back" period on the sale of real estate if you file
                            bankruptcy. I think it's one or two years, but I don't remember for sure.
                            So, if you sell and then file, you might have to account for the proceeds of
                            the sale.

                            On the other hand, if the equity in your home is less than the homestead
                            exemption that you are allowed, you could file a Chapter 7 now and still
                            keep the house. After the bankruptcy is over, you can share the house and
                            utilities with one or two other people and collect rent. Your personal
                            responsibility for the mortgage will have been discharged, but it will still
                            be secured by the house so you would still have to pay that to keep the
                            property. But, if the "share the house" idea didn't work out, you could
                            still give up the house after the bankruptcy by selling it, deeding it back
                            to the mortgage holder, or (worst option) letting them foreclosure on the
                            mortgage. My thinking is that if you end up on disability, you might still
                            be able to own a property and have a place to live that is virtually free.

                            All of this would need to be discussed with your bankruptcy attorney, of
                            course.

                            These are all just some ideas for thought and discussion. But, given what's
                            going on in your life, I tend to agree with your thinking that you should
                            start divesting yourself of all of your assets and try to eliminate as many
                            liabilities as possible. It sounds like you want to simplify your life as
                            much as possible and want to see if you can come through all of this without
                            bad credit and without bankruptcy.

                            Good luck.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Very Messy BK Situation, Need Advice!

                              Not to beat a dead horse, but I did have the same problem you have. I felt
                              like I was sleeping my life away, After a sleep study it was also confirmed
                              I awake every FIVE minutes, so of course I never get got a good nights
                              rest.. My sleep doctor tried the anti-depressants with no help either. I
                              agree they suck, but I was willing to try them. After that the doc
                              prescribed stimulant during the day to keep my awake and able to have my
                              life back. And my staying up all day with the help of the meds, I sleep
                              better than ever before.

                              And now I have my life back...so long as I take my meds.

                              The End.

                              "Royler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                              news:[email protected] om...
                              Ask the neurologist if it might be central nervous system sleep apnea -- that form of apnea quite often occurs in people at normal weight. That would explain the 50 unexplained arousals a night. Only problem is,
                              it's
                              harder to treat CNS apnea than obstructive apnea; however, the CNS apnea would still occur DESPITE the use of the CPAP. Just a thought. -P Guys, I appreciate all the advice, re: my sleep problem, but this is not really what I came here for. I've spent thousands of dollars on CPAP machines, doctors, medications, tests, etc. Bottom line is, I wake up at night, doctors do not know why, and because of that, my finances are screwed. I've spent 12 hours a day on the Internet trying to find solutions. I'm not really sure anybody can suggest anything I haven't already tried or thought of, from warm milk to surgery. FYI: central apnea will show up on a sleep study. I don't have it. If someone could address my problems, re: Sears trying to reclaim appliances, or selling those security interests, I would appreciate it. The clock is ticking for me. Thanks.

                              Comment

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