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Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

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  • Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

    I filed Chapter 7 and had the creditors meeting on Oct 2nd of this
    year under the old law. I just received a letter from attorneys for
    Capital One asking me to reaffirm a credit card debt of $3500. I pay
    back $1000 dollars at $100 per month. They state that I have 30 days
    to dispute the validity of their claim or it will be valid. If I do
    dispute it then they want income tax returns for the past 3 years, pay
    stubs for the past year, statements of all my credit card card
    transactions for the past year and more. Now, this was a card that
    that had been in good standing. I hardly ever used it but 5 months
    before my filing of Chapter 7 I took a $2000 cash advance in the form
    of a check that they sent me. They have no liens on anything that I
    purchased using their card. Anytime I used it was for food or
    supplies for my small business and the $2000 cash advance went to car
    repairs and medical expenses. Should I reply to this letter?
    Thanks....James

  • #2
    Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

    On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 19:33:32 GMT, james <[email protected]> wrote:
    I filed Chapter 7 and had the creditors meeting on Oct 2nd of thisyear under the old law. I just received a letter from attorneys forCapital One asking me to reaffirm a credit card debt of $3500. I payback $1000 dollars at $100 per month. They state that I have 30 daysto dispute the validity of their claim or it will be valid. If I dodispute it then they want income tax returns for the past 3 years, paystubs for the past year, statements of all my credit card cardtransactions for the past year and more. Now, this was a card thatthat had been in good standing. I hardly ever used it but 5 monthsbefore my filing of Chapter 7 I took a $2000 cash advance in the formof a check that they sent me. They have no liens on anything that Ipurchased using their card. Anytime I used it was for food orsupplies for my small business and the $2000 cash advance went to carrepairs and medical expenses. Should I reply to this letter?Thanks....James

    If you included them in your BK and they received the notice (Which
    I believe they did as they request the reaff which is a bit late to
    say the least!) then throw the letter in the garbage.

    They CANNOT do anything, if they continue to write, they are in
    violation of BK laws and can be fined....

    Comment


    • #3
      Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

      "james" <[email protected]> wrote in message
      news:[email protected]
      I filed Chapter 7 and had the creditors meeting on Oct 2nd of this year under the old law. I just received a letter from attorneys for Capital One asking me to reaffirm a credit card debt of $3500. I pay back $1000 dollars at $100 per month. They state that I have 30 days to dispute the validity of their claim or it will be valid. If I do dispute it then they want income tax returns for the past 3 years, pay stubs for the past year, statements of all my credit card card transactions for the past year and more. Now, this was a card that that had been in good standing. I hardly ever used it but 5 months before my filing of Chapter 7 I took a $2000 cash advance in the form of a check that they sent me. They have no liens on anything that I purchased using their card. Anytime I used it was for food or supplies for my small business and the $2000 cash advance went to car repairs and medical expenses. Should I reply to this letter? Thanks....James
      If your first scheduled Meeting of Creditors was October 2, 2005, you can
      safely disregard the demand for reaffirmation in lieu of informal discovery.
      CapOne's attorneys are too late. Creditors only have 60 days of the first
      scheduled meeting of creditors to file a complaint to determine the
      discahrgeability a debt. Since CapOne is now barred from taking further
      action legal against you the documents they've requested are no longer
      relevant.

      When was that letter dated, anyway?


      Comment


      • #4
        Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

        "Gene" <[email protected]> wrote in message
        news:[email protected]
        On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 19:33:32 GMT, james <[email protected]> wrote: <snip> They CANNOT do anything, if they continue to write, they are in violation of BK laws and can be fined....
        I'd agree. If the bar date has passed they don't have any legitimate reason
        to be requesting reaffirmation / informal discovery.


        Comment


        • #5
          Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

          On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 14:17:08 -0800, "JoblessDave"
          <[email protected]> wrote:
          "james" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] .com...
          I filed Chapter 7 and had the creditors meeting on Oct 2nd of this year under the old law. I just received a letter from attorneys for Capital One asking me to reaffirm a credit card debt of $3500. I pay back $1000 dollars at $100 per month. They state that I have 30 days to dispute the validity of their claim or it will be valid. If I do dispute it then they want income tax returns for the past 3 years, pay stubs for the past year, statements of all my credit card card transactions for the past year and more. Now, this was a card that that had been in good standing. I hardly ever used it but 5 months before my filing of Chapter 7 I took a $2000 cash advance in the form of a check that they sent me. They have no liens on anything that I purchased using their card. Anytime I used it was for food or supplies for my small business and the $2000 cash advance went to car repairs and medical expenses. Should I reply to this letter? Thanks....James
          If your first scheduled Meeting of Creditors was October 2, 2005, you cansafely disregard the demand for reaffirmation in lieu of informal discovery.CapOne's attorneys are too late. Creditors only have 60 days of the firstscheduled meeting of creditors to file a complaint to determine thediscahrgeability a debt. Since CapOne is now barred from taking furtheraction legal against you the documents they've requested are no longerrelevant.When was that letter dated, anyway?
          Well, upon further checking. My meeting of creditors was on Oct 7th
          and their letter was dated Dec. 6th so I guess that means they are
          within the 60 days. Reading the fine print, it is obvious that they
          don't have any leins or judgements against me. I don't understand why
          of the 3 Capital One cards that I had, they would try to have me
          reaffirm only this one?

          Comment


          • #6
            Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

            "james" <[email protected]> wrote in message
            news:[email protected]
            <snip>
            within the 60 days. Reading the fine print, it is obvious that they don't have any leins or judgements against me. I don't understand why of the 3 Capital One cards that I had, they would try to have me reaffirm only this one?
            They were asking you to reaffirm *or* provide informal discovery, right? If
            so, they were likely considering filing a complaint to determine the
            dischargeability of the debt. And they were asking, in a chunky way, for
            you to provide the change in circumstances that occurred in between when you
            took the cash advance and when you filed a bankruptcy case that caused you
            to decide not to repay.

            Why ask for informal discovery? Because the Bankruptcy Code provides that a
            creditor shall pay the costs of defense if a court determines their position
            wasn't substantially justified. An answer to a letter like the one you've
            received may keep the creditor from prosecuting a less than substantially
            justified claim. Conversely, when those letters are ignored and the
            creditor files a complaint that turns out not to be substantially justified,
            the noncooperative debtor is much less likely to be awarded the costs of
            defense.


            Comment


            • #7
              Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

              "james" <[email protected]> wrote in message
              news:[email protected]
              <snip>
              Well, upon further checking. My meeting of creditors was on Oct 7th and their letter was dated Dec. 6th so I guess that means they are within the 60 days.
              October 7 + 60 = December 6.

              LOL. They had until the day their letter is dated to file their complaint.
              Are you representing yourself?


              Comment


              • #8
                Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

                I was represented by an attorney and she forwarded this letter to me.
                I don't know if she will represent me. She seemed to misunderstand
                the document because she mentioned that I might want to return the
                "items" but there are no "items" that I specifically purchased with
                that $2000 advance on April 15th. She basically told me to negotiate
                an agreement myself; but I will talk to her when she returns my call.
                I may have to figure this out myself because I can't afford more
                attorney fees right now.

                I'm not inclined to send off 3 years of tax returns and a year of bank
                statements and income receipts without a better reason than that they
                want it. I borrowed the money in good faith with every intention of
                paying it back. My small craft business was barely supporting us but
                I had hope and excellent credit. 6 weeks or so after the cash advance,
                my wife was diagnosed with possibly malignant lung nodules. We spent
                June and July and August commuting to the hospital 70 miles away for
                tests and more tests and I can document that. It looked like surgery
                was inevitable; I was unable to attend full time to my business and I
                had to stop making monthly payments to all of my credit cards in July.
                In August the decision to do surgery was postponed until November but
                fearing tthe worst I made the decision to file chapter 7 which my
                attorney did on Sept. 2nd., 5 months after the loan. Now I would be
                willing to offer that explanation to the bank's attorneys if it would
                resolve the matter.

                Perhaps it would be helpful if they knew that they will get nothing
                from me. I own very little (20 year old cars, rent, self-employed,
                wife on disability.) and we qualify for food stamps ( but decline).
                If they go to the expense of contesting the discharge of this loan and
                then the expense of getting a judgement against me, there is no way
                they are going to collect a dime. Any thoughts on how I can derail
                this train before it gets messy? Thanks...James

                ..
                On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 10:45:38 -0800, "JoblessDave"
                <[email protected]> wrote:
                "james" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] .com...<snip>
                Well, upon further checking. My meeting of creditors was on Oct 7th and their letter was dated Dec. 6th so I guess that means they are within the 60 days.
                October 7 + 60 = December 6.LOL. They had until the day their letter is dated to file their complaint.Are you representing yourself?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

                  On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 00:03:10 GMT, james <[email protected]> wrote:
                  I was represented by an attorney and she forwarded this letter to me.I don't know if she will represent me. She seemed to misunderstandthe document because she mentioned that I might want to return the"items" but there are no "items" that I specifically purchased withthat $2000 advance on April 15th. She basically told me to negotiatean agreement myself; but I will talk to her when she returns my call.I may have to figure this out myself because I can't afford moreattorney fees right now.
                  Sounds like you had one ****ty lawyer..She should have responded to
                  it herself!
                  I'm not inclined to send off 3 years of tax returns and a year of bankstatements and income receipts without a better reason than that theywant it. I borrowed the money in good faith with every intention ofpaying it back. My small craft business was barely supporting us butI had hope and excellent credit. 6 weeks or so after the cash advance,my wife was diagnosed with possibly malignant lung nodules. We spentJune and July and August commuting to the hospital 70 miles away fortests and more tests and I can document that. It looked like surgerywas inevitable; I was unable to attend full time to my business and Ihad to stop making monthly payments to all of my credit cards in July.In August the decision to do surgery was postponed until November butfearing tthe worst I made the decision to file chapter 7 which myattorney did on Sept. 2nd., 5 months after the loan. Now I would bewilling to offer that explanation to the bank's attorneys if it wouldresolve the matter.Perhaps it would be helpful if they knew that they will get nothingfrom me. I own very little (20 year old cars, rent, self-employed,wife on disability.) and we qualify for food stamps ( but decline).If they go to the expense of contesting the discharge of this loan andthen the expense of getting a judgement against me, there is no waythey are going to collect a dime. Any thoughts on how I can derailthis train before it gets messy? Thanks...James
                  I'd just let them go ahead and file.Show up in court with BK papers
                  (Discharge) and tell the judge "This is it and I have nothing more"

                  Frankly, I REALLY doubt they'll continue this...You said so
                  yourself...Why would they bother? Because they think YOU"LL CRACK AND
                  PAY!!

                  Just ignore them...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

                    "james" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                    news:[email protected]
                    <snip>
                    If they go to the expense of contesting the discharge of this loan and then the expense of getting a judgement against me, there is no way they are going to collect a dime. Any thoughts on how I can derail this train before it gets messy? Thanks...James
                    Unless my math is wrong, there's no need to do anything. The bar date
                    passed on the 6th of December.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

                      On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 19:38:05 -0800, "JoblessDave"
                      <[email protected]> wrote:
                      "james" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] .com...<snip>
                      If they go to the expense of contesting the discharge of this loan and then the expense of getting a judgement against me, there is no way they are going to collect a dime. Any thoughts on how I can derail this train before it gets messy? Thanks...James
                      Unless my math is wrong, there's no need to do anything. The bar datepassed on the 6th of December.
                      You know Dave, you may be correct about the date. My trustee hearing
                      was on October 7th. If you include the day of October 7th, the 60th
                      day forward is Dec. 5th. Their letter to my attorney was dated Dec.
                      6th. That's the 61st day, right? One more possibly relevant point:
                      The bankruptcy court sent a notice to me and presumably to all my
                      creditors . dated Oct. 7th, entitled: "Notice Of Filing Report Of No
                      Distribution Combined With Order Fixing Deadline To Object Thereto"
                      which clearly states on the first line: Last Day To File An
                      Objection: 11/07/2005. Does that mean what it appears to? On the
                      subject of my attorney: For $800 plus filing fees I got to talk to a
                      secretary that knows nothing (after the initial meeting which was done
                      by a retired attorney who was helping out). My attorney did show up
                      for me at the trustee hearing with another reaffirmation agreement
                      from Dell computers that I hadn't seen until 5 minutes before my
                      hearing. She wouldn't advise me what to do but I decided on the spot
                      to not reaffirm that one (later, thanks Brett). In reterospect,
                      perhaps I should have spent a bit more and retained a more
                      professional representative. So do I have a problem or not?
                      Thanks...James

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

                        "james" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                        news:[email protected]
                        On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 19:38:05 -0800, "JoblessDave" <[email protected]> wrote:
                        <snip>
                        You know Dave, you may be correct about the date. My trustee hearing was on October 7th. If you include the day of October 7th, the 60th day forward is Dec. 5th. Their letter to my attorney was dated Dec. 6th. That's the 61st day, right?
                        Close enough.
                        The bankruptcy court sent a notice to me and presumably to all my creditors . dated Oct. 7th, entitled: "Notice Of Filing Report Of No Distribution Combined With Order Fixing Deadline To Object Thereto" which clearly states on the first line: Last Day To File An Objection: 11/07/2005.
                        The chapter 7 trustee files those notices with the court. Is the date is a
                        typographical error? The month should be 12? It looks like the bar date
                        was the 7th.
                        Does that mean what it appears to?
                        That was the last day for CapOne to file a complaint.
                        On the subject of my attorney: For $800 plus filing fees I got to talk to a secretary that knows nothing (after the initial meeting which was done by a retired attorney who was helping out). My attorney did show up for me at the trustee hearing with another reaffirmation agreement from Dell computers that I hadn't seen until 5 minutes before my hearing.
                        That's not very good service, even for that money. I charged about the same
                        rate for a basic chapter 7 (before October 17), and did everything myself.
                        She wouldn't advise me what to do but I decided on the spot to not reaffirm that one (later, thanks Brett). In reterospect, perhaps I should have spent a bit more and retained a more professional representative. So do I have a problem or not? Thanks...James
                        Brett's the best. I don't think you have any problems. If the bar date has
                        passed the creditor isn't likely to file an objection to your discharge.
                        And if they did, you'd just call them and tell them of their error, and
                        they'd likely dismiss their complaint.

                        Make sure of your dates before you put this aside.


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Capital One Reaffirmation Agreement

                          "james" <[email protected]> wrote in message
                          news:[email protected]
                          ....... You know Dave, you may be correct about the date. My trustee hearing was on October 7th. If you include the day of October 7th, the 60th day forward is Dec. 5th. Their letter to my attorney was dated Dec. 6th. That's the 61st day, right? ....
                          I don't think the counting of days works like that. In my state, and I
                          assume in other states, the counting of time does not include the date of
                          the event -- day 1 is the first day after the event. So, if someone has
                          sixty days from October 7 to take some action, day 1 of those 60 days is
                          October 8. The 60th day would be December 6 (24 days left in October from
                          the 8th through the 31st, 30 days in November, and 6 days in December from
                          the 1st through the 6th). Usually, if the last day falls on a Sunday or a
                          holiday, that day doesn't count when counting the number of days -- but in
                          your case December 6 isn't a Sunday or a holiday.

                          Sounds like you did end up in a bankruptcy mill which explains why your
                          attorney isn't taking the time to give you a straight answer and provide the
                          legal advice you paid for.

                          If it were me, I would ignore the letter and see if the company tries to do
                          anything further -- they won't, in my non-lawyer opinion. But, if they do,
                          good luck to them. As you said, there is really nothing for them to reclaim
                          and you do not have to sign a reaffirmation agreement. As far as them
                          expecting you to send them 3 years of tax returns and other info to defend
                          your position, that's silly. If they want to reclaim anything, they can go
                          to court and try it. But you have a good explanation for your position, and
                          I just don't see any bankruptcy judge finding in their favor at this point
                          in time. I don't even know if they can prove that your attorney was
                          properly "served" by December 6. I don't know if their attorney entered an
                          appearance in the matter before the bankruptcy court, which I think must be
                          done before any service from attorney to attorney in the matter can take
                          place.


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Closing thread - from 2005 & spam postings.
                            Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. Leo Buscaglia

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                            Comment

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