Putting a 6 Lane Highway in my back yard

[JandY]

I recently moved into a development that advertised on the premise
that it was a secluded nature preserve. We recently learned that the
county intends to put a 6-lane road (major artery) immediately behind
our property. The developer advised that this was known by them but
that they never believed it would come to fruition. They advised that
although it was not made known by them, information regarding this
proposal might be available at the county roads & bridges office.

My question - do they have an obligation to disclose and what is my
most viable recourse?

[Zen Cohen]

"Richard" <anom@anom> wrote in message
news:bevqnk02494@enews4.newsguy.com...

"JandY" <jeremy.swearengin@advantexmail.net> wrote in message news:986ddde8.0307141643.4d76884d@posting.google.c om...

No.

Where did you get this blanket "no"? Please tell us why you insist on
posting these baseless answers to matters you know absolutely nothing
about. You've been shown wrong again and again and again, yet you never
learn. All you do in is rationalize and spew more bull****. Do you not care
that you're misleading people about important questions and may make things
worse for them? You are such a worthless piece of trash.

[Richard]

"Zen Cohen" <aturny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QkLQa.74814$hV.4961141@twister.austin.rr.com. ..

"Richard" <anom@anom> wrote in message news:bevqnk02494@enews4.newsguy.com...

Where did you get this blanket "no"? Please tell us why you insist on posting these baseless answers to matters you know absolutely nothing about. You've been shown wrong again and again and again, yet you never learn. All you do in is rationalize and spew more bull****. Do you not

care

that you're misleading people about important questions and may make

things

worse for them? You are such a worthless piece of trash.

The first sentence made by the OP says "secluded nature preserve".
OP also states "immediately behind" but says nothing of the size of the
property.
Plus the fact, no state is mentioned, so even you can not assume, or apply,
any state laws.
First and foremost, is the planning stages of the roadway.
During this time, open public meetings are routinely held to obtain feedback
from effected prroperty owners.
Road construction does not happen from the drawing of plans to actual
construction within a few short weeks.
It may take several years.
Plans get changed along the way.
The state, or which ever entity is involved, can not simply move the
bulldozers in and begin construction.
Property has to be purchased from the owners. If the owner says no, that
puts a burden on the government entity they don't want. They can not take
the property by force or demand.

Furthermore, being in a nature preserve area, this means trees. Lots of
trees.
The trees will act as a natural noise buffer.
I live a half mile from a 4 lane state highway with heavy traffic and barely
notice the noise.

If this roadway is being built within a 1/4 mile or less, yes he has some
legitimate concerns of noise and other items.

Is the agent selling the house required to notify the buyer of these plans
up front?
Not necessarily. If the roadway is in the "proposed" stage, perhaps not.

What if wal-mart comes to the neighborhood and buys the property across the
street next month?
Do you think they can just set up shop and build as they damn well please?
No they can not. Neither can road builders.

[Richard]

"Zen Cohen" <aturny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8bLQa.74810$hV.4956451@twister.austin.rr.com. ..

"JandY" <jeremy.swearengin@advantexmail.net> wrote in message news:986ddde8.0307141643.4d76884d@posting.google.c om...

The answer may depend on which state you're in. If you're in TX, the developer's failure to disclose this may be actionable even if the information was available through public sources. It's not clear from

your

what they knew or why they "believed" it wouldn't happen but the

developer's

failing to disclose information concerning the property which was known at the time of the transaction is actionable if such failure to disclose was intended to induce you into a transaction into which the you would not

have

entered had the information been disclosed. There may be other avenues

your

information about what they represented and what they knew is pretty

vague,

so I'll leave it at that. But definitely would be a good idea to see a lawyer.

But only if the actual property itself was directly effected.
Will the roadway actually be directly adjacent to the property line of
unknown size, or will there be a buffer zone made of the nature preserve?
Property comes in various sizes from lots barely big enough to build a shed
on to several thousand acres.
We have several areas here in wisconsin in which a "lot" is 5 acres minimum.
In arizona, a lot might be 40 acres.

[Alex Parshikov]

In article <bf06v202u4v@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Richard" <anom@anom> wrote:

"Zen Cohen" <aturny@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:QkLQa.74814$hV.4961141@twister.austin. rr.com...

care

things

The first sentence made by the OP says "secluded nature preserve".OP also states "immediately behind" but says nothing of the size of theproperty.Plus the fact, no state is mentioned, so even you can not assume, or apply,any state laws.

I think its safe to assume SOME state laws apply, we just don't know which
state.

First and foremost, is the planning stages of the roadway.During this time, open public meetings are routinely held to obtain feedbackfrom effected prroperty owners.

How do you know public meetings are held? I thought you were assuming
there are no applicable state laws.

Road construction does not happen from the drawing of plans to actualconstruction within a few short weeks.It may take several years.

It may, which means it may not.

Plans get changed along the way.

Possibly.

The state, or which ever entity is involved, can not simply move thebulldozers in and begin construction.Property has to be purchased from the owners. If the owner says no, thatputs a burden on the government entity they don't want. They can not takethe property by force or demand.

Of course they can, dimwit. Eminent domain.

Furthermore, being in a nature preserve area, this means trees. Lots oftrees.

Not necessarily. It could mean fields. Or swamps. Or a unique
habitate. Or wetlands.

If this roadway is being built within a 1/4 mile or less, yes he has somelegitimate concerns of noise and other items.

What law says he has legitimate concerns within 1/4 mile, but not if its
more than 1/4 miles away?

Is the agent selling the house required to notify the buyer of these plansup front?Not necessarily. If the roadway is in the "proposed" stage, perhaps not.

"Not necessarily" is VERY different from your original, blanket "No." You
should have said "not necessarily" in the first place.

What if wal-mart comes to the neighborhood and buys the property across thestreet next month?Do you think they can just set up shop and build as they damn well please?No they can not. Neither can road builders.

Wall Mart isn't the public/government.

[McGyver]

"JandY" <jeremy.swearengin@advantexmail.net> wrote in message
news:986ddde8.0307141643.4d76884d@posting.google.c om...

I recently moved into a development that advertised on the premise that it was a secluded nature preserve. We recently learned that the county intends to put a 6-lane road (major artery) immediately behind our property. The developer advised that this was known by them but that they never believed it would come to fruition. They advised that although it was not made known by them, information regarding this proposal might be available at the county roads & bridges office. My question - do they have an obligation to disclose and what is my most viable recourse?

In addition to what Zen Cohen said, there's one more thing. I mean that
advertisment of a secluded nature preserve. If that ad was a true
statement, based on the knowledge of the developer, maybe you don't have
much ammo. But if the county's intent was known to the developer and they
lied about the nature preserve, that's fraud. The reason that's important
is that "failure to disclose" might not be a good action if the county's
intent was on public record. But that problem won't damage your fraud case.

McGyver

On 14 Jul 2003 17:43:46 -0700 JandY <jeremy.swearengin@advantexmail.net> whittled these words:

I recently moved into a development that advertised on the premise that it was a secluded nature preserve. We recently learned that the county intends to put a 6-lane road (major artery) immediately behind our property. The developer advised that this was known by them but that they never believed it would come to fruition. They advised that although it was not made known by them, information regarding this proposal might be available at the county roads & bridges office.
My question - do they have an obligation to disclose and what is my most viable recourse?

In some states, absolutely, there are disclosure laws that would cover
this. In other states, maybe not, its a matter of interpretation.
Not all states have disclosure laws, but in some situations case law
creates obligations not in the statutes. Alaska, California, District of
Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland,
Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire,
North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South
Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin have
disclosure laws of some form. Other states may as well. The best place to
check is with whatever agency oversees real estate agents and similar.

Here is an example in which a buyer is entitled to be expressly told of
the right to check for those types of plans, but doesn't require the
seller to make an explicit statement regarding them.
http://www.cityoffrederick.com/Chart...closure_u.html

(wrapped version in case the above gets cut-off)
http://www.cityoffrederick.com/Charter/_DATA/TITLE12_5/
ARTICLE_III__SALE_OF_REAL_PROPERTY/_Section_12_5_30__Disclosure_u.html

Diane Blackman

[Richard]

"Larry" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:none-1507030735370001@192.168.2.4...

In article <bf06v202u4v@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Richard" <anom@anom> wrote:

apply,

any state laws. I think its safe to assume SOME state laws apply, we just don't know which state.

feedback

from effected prroperty owners. How do you know public meetings are held? I thought you were assuming there are no applicable state laws.

Because it's general practice to do so in just about every state.
Public meetings are used to discuss the proposed roadway and get input from
the residents of the effected area.

Road construction does not happen from the drawing of plans to actualconstruction within a few short weeks.It may take several years. It may, which means it may not.

dependant upon how much has to be purchased and removed in order to make the
road.

Possibly.

Of course they can, dimwit. Eminent domain.

http://www.eminentdomainlaw.net/power.html

Furthermore, being in a nature preserve area, this means trees. Lots oftrees. Not necessarily. It could mean fields. Or swamps. Or a unique habitate. Or wetlands.

What law says he has legitimate concerns within 1/4 mile, but not if its more than 1/4 miles away?

No law, just rightful concerns for being in closer proximity to the roadway.

Is the agent selling the house required to notify the buyer of these

plans

up front?Not necessarily. If the roadway is in the "proposed" stage, perhaps not. "Not necessarily" is VERY different from your original, blanket "No." You should have said "not necessarily" in the first place.

the

street next month?Do you think they can just set up shop and build as they damn well

please?

No they can not. Neither can road builders. Wall Mart isn't the public/government.

[Richard]

"Zen Cohen" <aturny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VWYQa.89062$TJ.4673454@twister.austin.rr.com. ..

"Richard" <anom@anom> wrote in message news:bf06v202u4v@enews4.newsguy.com...

....

my

> > most viable recourse? > > No. Where did you get this blanket "no"? Please tell us why you insist on posting these baseless answers to matters you know absolutely nothing about. You've been shown wrong again and again and again, yet you

never

learn. All you do in is rationalize and spew more bull****. Do you

not

care

things

The first sentence [snip more richard bull****] Shut up and read the other posts in this thread. Your blanket "no" was

wrong

and none of your all-too-predictable after-the-fact dribble will change that. It is amazing that anyone could be as irredeemably stupid, stubborn and arrogant as you. Again, do you you not care that by your answers you're misleading people about important questions and may be making things worse for them?

If you're in the need of true legal advice, hire a frickin attorney.
Don't come in here and expect to get absolute answers for free.
Many states do not have any laws regarding disclosures of any item that may,
or may not, indirectly effect the sale of a house.
The laws that are in place, are those that deal with the condition of the
existing property.
Neither the seller nor the real estate agent is expected to know what may be
happening in the surrounding neighborhood well in advance of that event
actually taking place.
This is precisely why in such cases of road building, it is prudent to hold
public meetings so that residents of effected areas may know what is being
planned, voice their opinions, and offer suggestions.

Some idiot behind a desk just doesn't sit there and with a map, draw up a
new roadway one day, then in the next week begin hiring the contractors.
Don't work that way.

[Richard]

<TOTE@dog-play.com> wrote in message
news:bf1gtf$a8i9f$1@ID-80796.news.uni-berlin.de...

On 14 Jul 2003 17:43:46 -0700 JandY <jeremy.swearengin@advantexmail.net>

whittled these words:

I recently moved into a development that advertised on the premise that it was a secluded nature preserve. We recently learned that the county intends to put a 6-lane road (major artery) immediately behind our property. The developer advised that this was known by them but that they never believed it would come to fruition. They advised that although it was not made known by them, information regarding this proposal might be available at the county roads & bridges office.

In some states, absolutely, there are disclosure laws that would cover this. In other states, maybe not, its a matter of interpretation. Not all states have disclosure laws, but in some situations case law creates obligations not in the statutes. Alaska, California, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin have disclosure laws of some form. Other states may as well. The best place to check is with whatever agency oversees real estate agents and similar. Here is an example in which a buyer is entitled to be expressly told of the right to check for those types of plans, but doesn't require the seller to make an explicit statement regarding them.

http://www.cityoffrederick.com/Chart..._III__SALE_OF_
REAL_PROPERTY/_Section_12_5_30__Disclosure_u.html

(wrapped version in case the above gets cut-off) http://www.cityoffrederick.com/Charter/_DATA/TITLE12_5/ ARTICLE_III__SALE_OF_REAL_PROPERTY/_Section_12_5_30__Disclosure_u.html Diane Blackman

www.tinyurl.com beats the wrap problem.

[Kooky King Kaldis]

From: "Richard" <anom@anom>
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: Putting a 6 Lane Highway in my back yard
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:31:00 -0500
Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <bf363r0317j@enews1.newsguy.com>
References: <986ddde8.0307141643.4d76884d@posting.google.com > <bevqnk02494@enews4.newsguy.com> <QkLQa.74814$hV.4961141@twister.austin.rr.com> <bf06v202u4v@enews4.newsguy.com> <VWYQa.89062$TJ.4673454@twister.austin.rr.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p-252.newsdawg.com
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106

"Zen Cohen" <aturny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VWYQa.89062$TJ.4673454@twister.austin.rr.com. ..

"Richard" <anom@anom> wrote in message news:bf06v202u4v@enews4.newsguy.com...

....

my

> > most viable recourse? > > No. Where did you get this blanket "no"? Please tell us why you insist on posting these baseless answers to matters you know absolutely nothing about. You've been shown wrong again and again and again, yet you

never

learn. All you do in is rationalize and spew more bull****. Do you

not

care

things

The first sentence [snip more richard bull****] Shut up and read the other posts in this thread. Your blanket "no" was

wrong

and none of your all-too-predictable after-the-fact dribble will change that. It is amazing that anyone could be as irredeemably stupid, stubborn and arrogant as you. Again, do you you not care that by your answers you're misleading people about important questions and may be making things worse for them?

If you're in the need of true legal advice, hire a frickin attorney.
Don't come in here and expect to get absolute answers for free.
Many states do not have any laws regarding disclosures of any item that may,
or may not, indirectly effect the sale of a house.
The laws that are in place, are those that deal with the condition of the
existing property.
Neither the seller nor the real estate agent is expected to know what may be
happening in the surrounding neighborhood well in advance of that event
actually taking place.
This is precisely why in such cases of road building, it is prudent to hold
public meetings so that residents of effected areas may know what is being
planned, voice their opinions, and offer suggestions.

Some idiot behind a desk just doesn't sit there and with a map, draw up a
new roadway one day, then in the next week begin hiring the contractors.
Don't work that way.

[Timothy Horrigan]

>I recently moved into a development that advertised on the premise

that it was a secluded nature preserve. We recently learned that thecounty intends to put a 6-lane road (major artery) immediately behindour property.

Actually a highway might be less obtrusive than some other uses of the
property. There are ways to mitigate the impact of the highway.


I assume what happened was that your property abuts public lands, and the
developer and/or your Realtor (TM) told you that these public lands were
conservation lands. You COULD have investigated the status of the public lands
abutting your property BEFORE buying--- and so could the developer and realtor.
It is possible, however, that they did the same thing you did: i.e., not go to
the trouble of researching the county's plans for the property.


*****
Tim Horrigan <horrigan@aol.com>
*****

[Paul Robinson]

Richard wrote:

Property has to be purchased from the owners. If the owner says no, that puts a burden on the government entity they don't want. They can not take the property by force or demand.

Again, your 'usual and customary' ignorance of the law is absolutely stunning.
Go look up the term 'eminent domain' sometime.

Depending on the state, they can in some cases, tell you how much they think
your property is worth, pay you that much then have you evicted and if you don't
like it, you have to sue them to get a court to decide if the amount they paid
you was adequate or not.

Back in the 1950s the City of Boston built the main freeway through a majority
black neighborhood and stole most of the land by telling the homeowners their
home was worth $1, then condemning the houses, knowing the owners didn't have
the resources to go to court.

Now I do believe they actually have to go through a condemnation proceeding in
court to determine the value. But you can't stop the condemnation itself, they
can use Eminent Domain. But if the property is too valuable or you put up
enough of a fight they may go elsewhere.

If you own the property outright and have several hundred friends, try
re-deeding the property in one-foot square or one-inch square lots and
registering each sale with the county. This will flood the property with
separate claims that have to be separately litigated, especially if each is in
the name of a different landholder.

What if wal-mart comes to the neighborhood and buys the property across the street next month? Do you think they can just set up shop and build as they damn well please? No they can not. Neither can road builders.

Again, your ignorance is absolutely stunning. Roads are built either by a state
highway Agency or a private contractor under contract to the Agency. Usually
it's a state Department of Transportation. They have the power of eminent
domain to seize as much land as they want.

Walmart is a private organization.

A state's Department of Transportation is usually funded by the Federal Grants
and by gasoline and diesel taxes. They have lots of money and the power of the
state. Sometimes there isn't much oversight over what they are doing. They can
and often do build as they damn well please.

--
Paul Robinson "Above all else... We shall go on..."
"...And continue!"
"If the lessons of history teach us anything it is
that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us."

[Paul Robinson]

Richard wrote:

Here is an example in which a buyer is entitled to be expressly told of the right to check for those types of plans, but doesn't require the seller to make an explicit statement regarding them. http://www.cityoffrederick.com/Chart..._III__SALE_OF_ REAL_PROPERTY/_Section_12_5_30__Disclosure_u.html

www.tinyurl.com beats the wrap problem.

Here is the above as a "tinyurl"

http://tinyurl.com/i8ca


--
Paul Robinson "Above all else... We shall go on..."
"...And continue!"
"If the lessons of history teach us anything it is
that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us."