Drunk illegal alien w/arrest record kills U.S. dad of 2

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observe...l/12165955.htm

Crash kills teacher; prior offender charged

Wreck kills father of 2; wife in critical condition

GREG RICKABAUGH
Staff Writer
Tue, Jul. 19, 2005

A roofer with a history of drunken driving slammed his truck into a
Mount Holly family's beach-bound station wagon over the weekend,
killing a Gastonia high school teacher, authorities said.

Scott Gardner, 33, died hours after the Saturday afternoon crash along
N.C. 130 near Wilmington. His two children, 2-year-old Avery and
5-year-old Jackson, suffered only minor injuries, but their mother,
Tina Gardner, 31, remained in critical condition Monday evening.

The man accused in the crash -- Ramiro Gallegos, 26, of Supply, N.C.
-- remained in a Brunswick County Jail without bond Monday on charges
of second-degree murder and hit and run. His blood alcohol level at
the time of the arrest was 0.22 percent, nearly three times the legal
limit of .08 percent, said First Sgt. J.O. Holmes with the N.C.
Highway Patrol.

Holmes said Gallegos told troopers that he was in the country
illegally from Mexico. But he was not deported despite previous
convictions for DWI, resisting arrest and failure to appear in court,
records show.

N.C. law-enforcement agencies have few resources for deporting illegal
immigrants who break the law, Holmes said.

"If they are convicted of a serious offense, then at whatever point
they complete their time, they are deported," Holmes said. "But DWI,
from what I understand, does not qualify."

Cheryl Jones, chairwoman of MADD Metrolina, which covers the Charlotte
region, said she doesn't understand why authorities didn't deport
Gallegos.

"I would like to see a judge justify that now that we have one person
dead and one person seriously injured," she said. "What these courts
don't understand is that every DWI has the potential to kill."

In April 2004, Gallegos was sentenced to three years of probation for
a DWI and driving while his license was revoked, N.C. Department of
Correction records show. In 2003, he was sentenced to probation, also
for DWI, records show.

The crash happened about 5:30 p.m. Saturday on N.C. 130 not far from
Shallotte.

Troopers recovered beer cans throughout the cab and bed of the 1999
Ford F-150 pickup truck that Gallegos was driving, Holmes said.
Gallegos and three other co-workers had packed into the truck's front
cab and were heading west when Gallegos ran off the road,
over-corrected and crossed the center line, Holmes said. Troopers
estimated he was 10 mph over the 55 mph speed limit.

Scott Gardner apparently tried to swerve to the right to avoid the
crash, Holmes said, but the family's eastbound 2001 Subaru station
wagon never left the road before impact. He and his wife were both
airlifted to New Hanover Regional Medical Center, where he died early
Sunday.

The children survived with minor injuries only because they were
properly restrained, Holmes said. Both parents also were wearing their
seat belts.

Gallegos is accused of running from troopers at the scene, Holmes
said. He was captured nearby and is charged with the two felonies as
well as DWI, driving with a revoked license, reckless driving and
failure to wear a seat belt.

The Gardner family was headed to Sunset Beach for a weeklong vacation,
said neighbor Stephanie Moeller. Another couple followed, and the
group planned to share a rental unit.

After the wreck, Tina Gardner's parents drove from Spivey's Corner to
be with her at the hospital. Family members were caring for the
children.

Word of the fatal wreck spread fast through the Gaston County
community, where Gardner worked as a digital communications instructor
at the Highland School of Technology. The family played active roles
at the First Baptist Church of Mount Holly.



"So, likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld . . .

"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government . . . Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people to surrender their interests.

" . . . nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest."

-- President George Washington
Farewell Address
September 26, 1796

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim?]

but hey, at least he didn't have tinted windows on his car.



<WakeUp2005@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:8tdrd1pfcc0bdstkl1u38kur9eqvarok7j@4ax.com...

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observe...l/12165955.htm Crash kills teacher; prior offender charged Wreck kills father of 2; wife in critical condition GREG RICKABAUGH Staff Writer Tue, Jul. 19, 2005 A roofer with a history of drunken driving slammed his truck into a Mount Holly family's beach-bound station wagon over the weekend, killing a Gastonia high school teacher, authorities said. Scott Gardner, 33, died hours after the Saturday afternoon crash along N.C. 130 near Wilmington. His two children, 2-year-old Avery and 5-year-old Jackson, suffered only minor injuries, but their mother, Tina Gardner, 31, remained in critical condition Monday evening. The man accused in the crash -- Ramiro Gallegos, 26, of Supply, N.C. -- remained in a Brunswick County Jail without bond Monday on charges of second-degree murder and hit and run. His blood alcohol level at the time of the arrest was 0.22 percent, nearly three times the legal limit of .08 percent, said First Sgt. J.O. Holmes with the N.C. Highway Patrol. Holmes said Gallegos told troopers that he was in the country illegally from Mexico. But he was not deported despite previous convictions for DWI, resisting arrest and failure to appear in court, records show. N.C. law-enforcement agencies have few resources for deporting illegal immigrants who break the law, Holmes said. "If they are convicted of a serious offense, then at whatever point they complete their time, they are deported," Holmes said. "But DWI, from what I understand, does not qualify." Cheryl Jones, chairwoman of MADD Metrolina, which covers the Charlotte region, said she doesn't understand why authorities didn't deport Gallegos. "I would like to see a judge justify that now that we have one person dead and one person seriously injured," she said. "What these courts don't understand is that every DWI has the potential to kill." In April 2004, Gallegos was sentenced to three years of probation for a DWI and driving while his license was revoked, N.C. Department of Correction records show. In 2003, he was sentenced to probation, also for DWI, records show. The crash happened about 5:30 p.m. Saturday on N.C. 130 not far from Shallotte. Troopers recovered beer cans throughout the cab and bed of the 1999 Ford F-150 pickup truck that Gallegos was driving, Holmes said. Gallegos and three other co-workers had packed into the truck's front cab and were heading west when Gallegos ran off the road, over-corrected and crossed the center line, Holmes said. Troopers estimated he was 10 mph over the 55 mph speed limit. Scott Gardner apparently tried to swerve to the right to avoid the crash, Holmes said, but the family's eastbound 2001 Subaru station wagon never left the road before impact. He and his wife were both airlifted to New Hanover Regional Medical Center, where he died early Sunday. The children survived with minor injuries only because they were properly restrained, Holmes said. Both parents also were wearing their seat belts. Gallegos is accused of running from troopers at the scene, Holmes said. He was captured nearby and is charged with the two felonies as well as DWI, driving with a revoked license, reckless driving and failure to wear a seat belt. The Gardner family was headed to Sunset Beach for a weeklong vacation, said neighbor Stephanie Moeller. Another couple followed, and the group planned to share a rental unit. After the wreck, Tina Gardner's parents drove from Spivey's Corner to be with her at the hospital. Family members were caring for the children. Word of the fatal wreck spread fast through the Gaston County community, where Gardner worked as a digital communications instructor at the Highland School of Technology. The family played active roles at the First Baptist Church of Mount Holly. "So, likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld . . . "Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government . . . Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people to surrender their interests. " . . . nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest." -- President George Washington Farewell Address September 26, 1796

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim?]

and the reason that the goddamn useless cops didn't stop him before this is
what exactly?

I know, because he didn't have tinted windows on his car.

let's hear all of the backpedalling from law enforcement on this one.

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:13:44 GMT, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
<killgod@killgod.com> wrote:

and the reason that the goddamn useless cops didn't stop him before this iswhat exactly?I know, because he didn't have tinted windows on his car.let's hear all of the backpedalling from law enforcement on this one.

If you're a US citizen, I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's a
damn shame -- a scandal, really -- that police will ticket US citizens
for comparatively minor infractions such as tinted windows etc. while,
at the same time, every day they pass probably hundreds of illegal
alie drivers on the road and (due to their department's higher-ups)
cannot stop these illegal aliens and, upon determining that they may
indeed be illegal aliens, contact the appropriate government officials
to effect their deportation.
"So, likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld . . .

"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government . . . Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people to surrender their interests.

" . . . nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest."

-- President George Washington
Farewell Address
September 26, 1796

[Neil]

<WakeUp2005@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:itqtd1hcl7ip1ovbqlkooqob2ng8p82keu@4ax.com...

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:13:44 GMT, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <killgod@killgod.com> wrote:

If you're a US citizen, I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's a damn shame -- a scandal, really -- that police will ticket US citizens for comparatively minor infractions such as tinted windows etc. while, at the same time, every day they pass probably hundreds of illegal alie drivers on the road and (due to their department's higher-ups) cannot stop these illegal aliens and, upon determining that they may indeed be illegal aliens, contact the appropriate government officials to effect their deportation.

So what standard should we use for stopping these illegal aliens? Should we
pull over all Hispanic drivers? Maybe just the ones who drive old cars or
look like they do menial labor?

"So, likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld . . . "Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government . . . Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people to surrender their interests. " . . . nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest." -- President George Washington Farewell Address September 26, 1796

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim?]

if PIGS have time to hand out speeding tickets and traffic tickets for
tinted wndows, then PIGS have time to hunt down and get rid of illegal
aliens.

I've had it with the BULL**** excuses.

QUIT harassing taxpayers and start doing your GODDAMN job for the FIRST TIME
in your BULL**** career.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 00:54:50 -0700, "Guardenman"
<m.frisch@charter.net> wrote:

So what standard should we use for stopping these illegal aliens? Should wepull over all Hispanic drivers? Maybe just the ones who drive old cars orlook like they do menial labor?

If you wrote that rhetorically, you might be surprised to find out
that I don't (at this time anyway) necessarily advocate allowing local
police to do those things.

On the other hand, EVERY DAY I see people who are VERY OBVIOUSLY
likely illegal aliens driving cars etc. It's extremely frustrating to
see these illegal aliens so brazenly flouting our nation's laws -- far
from the "these poor people live in the shadows" nonsense put forth by
the liberal pro-illegal alien corporate media, these people are quite
"out in the open."

I bet the father of that 9-year-old Ohio child who was raped by an
illegal alien from Mexico (the perp's still on the lam and may be in
mexico, as per news reports) might think pulling over Hispanics who
fit the profile of "illegal alien" might think allowing the police to
be so proactive in their policing is a good thing.

"So, likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld . . .

"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government . . . Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people to surrender their interests.

" . . . nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest."

-- President George Washington
Farewell Address
September 26, 1796

[Neil]

<WakeUp2005@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:nni0e1hga82id35v3cvvbicftn2fbof02b@4ax.com...

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 00:54:50 -0700, "Guardenman" <m.frisch@charter.net> wrote:

If you wrote that rhetorically, you might be surprised to find out that I don't (at this time anyway) necessarily advocate allowing local police to do those things.

I would certainly hope not. According to your earlier post, you seem to
think we should be able to tell just from looking at people if they are
illegal aliens or not. Sounds like that olddevil "racial profiling"

On the other hand, EVERY DAY I see people who are VERY OBVIOUSLY likely illegal aliens driving cars etc.

How is it so obvious that they are illegal aliens?

It's extremely frustrating to

see these illegal aliens so brazenly flouting our nation's laws -- far from the "these poor people live in the shadows" nonsense put forth by the liberal pro-illegal alien corporate media, these people are quite "out in the open."

Well perhaps some states need to change some laws. There is no excuse for
allowing illegal aliens to function as citizens.

I bet the father of that 9-year-old Ohio child who was raped by an illegal alien from Mexico (the perp's still on the lam and may be in mexico, as per news reports) might think pulling over Hispanics who fit the profile of "illegal alien" might think allowing the police to be so proactive in their policing is a good thing.

If they haven't caught him how do they know he is an illegal alien? Do they
have a suspect?

"So, likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld . . . "Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government . . . Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people to surrender their interests. " . . . nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest." -- President George Washington Farewell Address September 26, 1796

[Neil]

"SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <killgod@killgod.com> wrote in message
newsFWDe.7100$oZ.6654@newsread2.news.atl.earthli nk.net...

if PIGS have time to hand out speeding tickets and traffic tickets for tinted wndows, then PIGS have time to hunt down and get rid of illegal aliens. I've had it with the BULL**** excuses. QUIT harassing taxpayers and start doing your GODDAMN job for the FIRST TIME in your BULL**** career.

SO let me get this straight. If you have tinted windows. SOmething thatis
obviouslyillegal. Itis harrasment to pull you over. But if Isee someone how
happens tobe a hispanic person, I should pull himover and make himprove he
is a US citizen.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:53:05 -0700, "Guardenman"
<m.frisch@charter.net> wrote:

On the other hand, EVERY DAY I see people who are VERY OBVIOUSLY likely illegal aliens driving cars etc.How is it so obvious that they are illegal aliens?

There are a number of very telling characteristics which can be
considered when making a determination of whether an individual is a
likely illegal alien or not.

I'm always amazed at those -- invariably white US citizens -- who
seem puzzled as to how one can spot illegal aliens.

Look: there are an estimated 20 MILLION illegal aliens -- the vast
majority from Latin America, specifically Mexico -- in the USA. Don't
you think that such a huge population would share some
physical/sociological/linguistic and other characteristics which aid
in their identification as members of that group?

The fact is, jusat as young people who're into the "Goth" look are
easy to spot based SOLEY on their appearance, so, too can the mere
"look" (i.e. physical attributes) of illegal aliens be a givaway as to
their likely origins and correspnding immigration status.

For example, is it not GLARINGLY OBVIOUS that, for example, a
24-year-old illiterate and non-English-speaking Mexican of pronounced
Indian racial stock and driving a dented 1982 Buick LeSabre in the
color scheme of *primer* and missing a hood -- I SWEAR I've seen at
least four cars sans hoods over their engines, their engines fully
exposed, being driven by illegal alien types in just the past two
years) is not only probably but EXTREMELY LIKELY an illegal alien?

I suspect that those unbelievably unperceptive "See no evil; Speak
no evil; Hear no evil" Americans who express wonder at the ability of
others to spot people who are likely illegal aliens are the same sort
of knuckleheads who indiscriminately refer to all Asians as "Chinese"
or who wonder why the local Taco Bell doesn't play flamenco guitar
music.
"So, likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld . . .

"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government . . . Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people to surrender their interests.

" . . . nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest."

-- President George Washington
Farewell Address
September 26, 1796

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim?]

"color scheme of *primer* and missing a hood "

LMAO, but seriously, now, now, don't confuse a cop with the FACTS, they hate
that.

[Tiny Human Ferret]

WakeUp2005@adelphia.net wrote:

<snips>

The fact is, jusat as young people who're into the "Goth" look are easy to spot based SOLEY on their appearance, so, too can the mere "look" (i.e. physical attributes) of illegal aliens be a givaway as to their likely origins and correspnding immigration status.

Speaking as a former Goth, I should point out that a few weeks cutting
lawns in blue-jeans and a t-shirt would make any Goth _appear_ the same
as anyone. But on the inside... heh heh.



--
The incapacity of a weak and distracted government may
often assume the appearance, and produce the effects,
of a treasonable correspondence with the public enemy.
--Gibbon, "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"
================================================== ================
"Sometimes, Evil drives a mini-van."
--Desperate Housewives

[Neil]

<WakeUp2005@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:be43e1loj0cjnbufpffbmqmeeaee1ja9vr@4ax.com...

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:53:05 -0700, "Guardenman" <m.frisch@charter.net> wrote:

There are a number of very telling characteristics which can be considered when making a determination of whether an individual is a likely illegal alien or not. I'm always amazed at those -- invariably white US citizens -- who seem puzzled as to how one can spot illegal aliens.

Keep in mind this is a law enforcement group. I see this has been cross
posted to several other groups as well. The group I read it in, is mostly
people discussing laws and enforcement. From a legal stand point none of
what you said is true. Ok maybe a little bit is true. Most of what you
suggest is so far over the top, we would have a war on our hands if we tried
it. Personally I am not sure which side most of us cops would take.

Look: there are an estimated 20 MILLION illegal aliens -- the vast majority from Latin America, specifically Mexico -- in the USA. Don't you think that such a huge population would share some physical/sociological/linguistic and other characteristics which aid in their identification as members of that group?

Of coarse. The part you are right about pretty much ends here.

The fact is, jusat as young people who're into the "Goth" look are easy to spot based SOLEY on their appearance, so, too can the mere "look" (i.e. physical attributes) of illegal aliens be a givaway as to their likely origins and correspnding immigration status.

So we can stop any Hispanic we want? Just to see his papers? Or is it any
mideasterner we should be signaling out this week? Maybe next week we can go
after the Scandinavian illegal immigrants. Than we can pull over any white
people we see. Is Terry a common Scandinavian name?

For example, is it not GLARINGLY OBVIOUS that, for example, a 24-year-old illiterate and non-English-speaking Mexican of pronounced Indian racial stock and driving a dented 1982 Buick LeSabre in the color scheme of *primer* and missing a hood -- I SWEAR I've seen at least four cars sans hoods over their engines, their engines fully exposed, being driven by illegal alien types in just the past two years) is not only probably but EXTREMELY LIKELY an illegal alien?

How exactly can you determine if someone is illiterate by watching them
drive? As for the primer My 59 Ford is painted primer gray as we speak. Now
I know my grandfather came here illegally but I swear sir I was born here.

I suspect that those unbelievably unperceptive "See no evil; Speak no evil; Hear no evil" Americans who express wonder at the ability of others to spot people who are likely illegal aliens are the same sort of knuckleheads who indiscriminately refer to all Asians as "Chinese" or who wonder why the local Taco Bell doesn't play flamenco guitar music.

Or maybe we are cops who understand the bill of rights. Last time I checked
national origin was not considered a valid reason to determine suspicion. I
am certain it wouldn't meet any standards for probable cause.

"So, likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld . . . "Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government . . . Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people to surrender their interests. " . . . nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest." -- President George Washington Farewell Address September 26, 1796