O/T: Sort of a dumb question about the Gay marriage thing and immigration...

[sibsie]

As a "straight" Roman Catholic I totally support gay marriage. In fact
the two witnesses at my own wedding will be my best friend who's gay and
her partner.

I really can't see why people feel remotely threatened by
it. Off at a tangent but at the stables where I used to keep my horse,
there was a gay goat!


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[DCMark]

I URGE all our regular posters (travel, andrew) to PLEASE just ingore
Dave Wilkerson's posts here. Please. He stayed away almost two weeks,
but he is back

Just don't take the bait please.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[Andrew DeFaria]

DCMark wrote:

I URGE all our regular posters (travel, andrew) to PLEASE just ingore Dave Wilkerson's posts here. Please. He stayed away almost two weeks, but he is back Just don't take the bait please.

He's been killfiled.

--
It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.

[David Tanner]

headmaster wrote:

I did not write the bible, so you are only arguing with those that did. The day is coming when every knee will bow and every mouth will admit that Jesus Christ is Lord. you can chose to believe your vanity, or you can seek the wisdom of God. Only a fool will say that there is no God.

I didn't say that, I only commented on whether everything in the Bible
was what God intended, especially saying that gays should be killed,
which seems to go against the commandment that says "Thous shall not kill"

[Andrew DeFaria]

Rete wrote:

Just love when people quote the bible and tell us that it is the word of God. The bible is nothing more than the written version or recollections of others who purported these words, thoughts and directives to have been said or decreed by a person they believed to be the human incarnation of a supreme being. These accounts were often written tens of years after the so-called actual occurrence. One knows what happens to memory when it is distorted by time and altered by discussions with others. Liken it to the game of telephone.

Not only that but it was written in ancient languages and transcribed
many, many times. The potential for transcription errors is enormous,
yet bible thumpers will try to convince you of it's 100% authenticity.
And not only transcription errors but one must thing of cultural errors
(something we all know about having foreign spouses) and time
differences (things way back then don't translate well even if the
language remains the same).

Heaven, if there is one, must be one heck of a lonely place. I don't know one person, past or present, who could claim entrance.

Oh there are millions who would "claim" entrance. Claiming it and
attaining it are two entirely different things. Don't believe it exists
at all personally.
--
Shin: A device for finding furniture in the dark.

[Leslie66]

Originally posted by sibsie

Same here! I'm in the

middle of a really good book called Under The Banner of Heaven that
deals with the Mormon religion. Gripping but very distrubing reading.


Hi Sibs,

Which continent are you posting from? I've missed
your posts here lately.

Since I know you're an avid reader, have you
ever read any of the Joseph Campbell stuff? This whole thread has
become about religion so I don't feel bad going even more OT. It was
after reading The Power of the Myth, I actually stopped feeling stupid
for believing in God. Campbell's publications clearly and concisely
articulated what I had been attempting to put together for myself. I
had never felt comfortable in (any) church, didn't buy any of the crap I
was being fed, but for some reason always felt spiritual and connected
to God. There are real and important reasons for all of the religions
and belief systems that have emerged. It is not necessary for any one
person to accept any of them, they stand on their own and do not require
a "fan club". So the idiots that say, "You'll go to Hell if you don't
do this or that...." are essentially blowing smoke up our collective
asses. If someone tells me, "This is what I believe I need to do
......" in order to obtain entrance into heaven, or spiritual
enlightenment, or whatever their particular goal for the after-life or
next-life, is someone I am always interested in listening to.

Anyway,
about that gay goat.....................


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[Leslie66]

Originally posted by ray6

I am on a "peace to all"

kick today..(well nearly all) and after reading all this thread ...an
old Donavan song just came in to my mind... which I though was apt:

Really? I'm on a pissed off about people that make fun
of other people kick today. The Devil isn't a horned guy residing in a
burning pyre at the center of the earth. The Devil is the guy/girl
right next door. He/she smiles to your face while secretly hating
anybody that doesn't look, act, or think just like him. He plots to
shave away your rights and does it all in the name of God. I thought
this old Rolling Stones cut was apt:

Please allow me to introduce
myself
IÂ’m a man of wealth and taste
IÂ’ve been around for a long, long
year
Stole many a manÂ’s soul and faith
And I was Â’round when jesus
christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made **** sure that pilate

Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess
my name
But whatÂ’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around
st. petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and
his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a generalÂ’s
rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you

Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, whatÂ’s puzzling you
Is the nature
of my game, oh yeah
I watched with glee
While your kings and queens

Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
I shouted out,
Who killed
the kennedys?
When after all
It was you and me
Let me please introduce
myself
IÂ’m a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours

Who get killed before they reached bombay
Pleased to meet you
Hope you
guessed my name, oh yeah
But whatÂ’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my
game, oh yeah, get down, baby
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my
name, oh yeah
But whatÂ’s confusing you
Is just the nature of my game

Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is
tails
Just call me lucifer
Â’cause IÂ’m in need of some restraint
So if
you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use
all your well-learned politesse
Or IÂ’ll lay your soul to waste, um yeah

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But whatÂ’s
puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
Woo, who
Oh
yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah!
Tell me baby, whatÂ’s my name
Tell me
honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, whatÂ’s my name
I tell you one
time, youÂ’re to blame
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo,
who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah
WhatÂ’s me name
Tell me,
baby, whatÂ’s my name
Tell me, sweetie, whatÂ’s my name
Ooo, who, who

Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who

Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[Steffi]

I'm kind of behind on this topic, and it's shifted a bit since the first
few pages, but here's my input...

I'm not sure why the gay issue is
still such a big deal. You would think that in this day and age the
"Equal Rights" movement wouldn't be necessary anymore. After all the
fighting that has already taken place, such as black's rights, women's
rights, etc that the gay issue would automatically fall in that category
(and not be an issue anymore). If this country really did have a
seperation of church and state then this wouldn't even be an issue.
Obviously the church does have influence, otherwise gay's would
be treated as equal's. I also don't understand how gay's having the same
rights is hurting anyone. You're not forced to marry them, so how are
they a problem?
So if you can't bare the sight of seeing gay's kiss,
can you also not bare the sight of straight's kissing?
In case you
haven't been able to tell, I think gay's should have the same rights as
straight's. And of course that would include immigration. So much about
equality for all...


Leslie, the only pro that Patrick and I have
noticed as far as a married benefit goes is the fact that our car
insurance went down. At first we were scared to add me because we
thought it would go up, but instead it went down. Aparently being
married means you're less likely to take risks.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[Andrew DeFaria]

Steffi wrote:

I'm not sure why the gay issue is still such a big deal. You would think that in this day and age the "Equal Rights" movement wouldn't be necessary anymore. After all the fighting that has already taken place, such as black's rights, women's rights, etc that the gay issue would automatically fall in that category (and not be an issue anymore).

I think the way that they think is this: What if some radical group,
what that you really believe is evil (examples might be the Jim Jones',
David Koresh's and that cult up in Oregon) wishes to have "equal
rights". You'd probably not want to see that happen because you really
believe that they are evil and if left unchecked will cause a decay of
the social structure (note I'm not saying that I believe this at all,
rather it's how I think that they see it. Of course they could explain
it themselves but they get too washed up in thumping the bible).

If this country really did have a seperation of church and state then this wouldn't even be an issue.

Change the word country to society and I'd agree with you.

Obviously the church does have influence,

Of course they do - just like any other group of people.

otherwise gay's would be treated as equal's. I also don't understand how gay's having the same rights is hurting anyone.

I think they think (again it's me playing devils advocate here) that if
allowed it would become too prevalent and contribute to that awful
"decay in moral values". Look at it this way. When I grew up the media
was a lot more censored and things like divorce where frowned upon.
Today we have boobs a flying on the tube and I hear all sorts of what
were once considered "bad words" freely spoken on the TV and radio. In a
sense young people today get bombarded a lot more with such images and
spoken words, etc. Is this hurting our society? I'd say somewhat. So I
think they see it as yet another thing decaying society.

You're not forced to marry them, so how are they a problem? So if you can't bare the sight of seeing gay's kiss, can you also not bare the sight of straight's kissing?

I don't know about you but seeing straights kiss doesn't bother me. I
remember the first time I saw gays kiss and yes it bothered me. It was
odd or different. I realize that this is based on my upbringing and I
can understand that gays might have a similar feeling seeing straights
kiss. As such all I can say is that I'll have to bear it and get used to
it - no biggie.

In case you haven't been able to tell, I think gay's should have the same rights as straight's. And of course that would include immigration. So much about equality for all...

I agree that gays should have the same rights as straights.
--
Don't be so open-minded your brains fall out.

[ScottHenshaw]

Andrew: The cult in Oregon was the Bog-wan-shri-rashnish, bunch of
nutcases. I grew up in Portland and remeber their hotel in downtown
Portland

Scott


--
NOA1 NSC December 16th, 2002


Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[Steffi]

Originally posted by Andrew Defaria

Change the word

country to society and I'd agree with you.
That works for me.


Originally posted by Andrew Defaria

I think they

think (again it's me playing devils advocate here) that if allowed it
would become too prevalent and contribute to that awful "decay in moral
values". Look at it this way. When I grew up the media was a lot more
censored and things like divorce where frowned upon. Today we have boobs
a flying on the tube and I hear all sorts of what were once considered
"bad words" freely spoken on the TV and radio. In a sense young people
today get bombarded a lot more with such images and

spoken words,

etc. Is this hurting our society? I'd say somewhat. So I think they see
it as yet another thing decaying society.
Hmmm....well you have
to remember that times are always changing. Remember when it was
"shocking" for women to show an ankle? I'm sure people said society is
decaying back in those days as well.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[doctor scrumpy]

Originally posted by ScottHenshaw

Andrew: The cult in

Oregon was the Bog-wan-shri-rashnish, bunch of nutcases. I grew up in
Portland and remeber their hotel in downtown Portland

Scott

Bog-wan-shri-rashnish is not a town, it is the kind of racks
I get at scrabble.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[ScottHenshaw]

Originally posted by doctor scrumpy

Bog-wan-shri-

rashnish is not a town, it is the kind of racks I get at scrabble.



Doctor,

The Bog-wan was not a town but an occult which was
located in Oregon. I probably got the spelling wrong, but if anyone is
interested the correct spelling is, "Bhagwan Shri Rashneesh" and I
assume that google might have some info. I am pretty sure that the group
has since been disbanded.

Steffi,

There are still parts of this world
were a showing a little ankle not be tolerated. Not sure where, but I
think that Janette Jackson is going to be doing a concert there soon


--
NOA1 NSC December 16th, 2002


Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[Andrew DeFaria]

Rockgurl wrote:

What about all those others that don't have my professional skills? Who will look out for them?

I've already said that I believe the law should be changed.

Why do you think somebody needs to look out for somebody else?

--
Why are people willing to get off their *** to search the entire room
for the TV remote because they refuse to walk to the TV and change the
channel manually?

[Leslie66]

Originally posted by Steffi

Leslie, the only pro

that Patrick and I have noticed as far as a married benefit goes is the
fact that our car insurance went down. At first we were scared to add
me because we thought it would go up, but instead it went down.
Aparently being married means you're less likely to take risks.


Thanks Steffi, that's good to know. We'll be dealing with
that pretty soon.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[ScottHenshaw]

"1. The Bhagwan Shri Rashneesh were trying to poison a whole town with
salmonella in order to fix a local election. "

Really, I did not know
that. When I lived in Portland at the time, I was only about 14 years
old or so... I knew that their elevator did not go to the top, but did
not know that they put poison in the water system

Scott


--
NOA1 NSC December 16th, 2002


Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[ray6]

In 1984, followers of Bhagwan Shri Rashneesh sprinkled homegrown
salmonella bacteria on supermarket produce, door handles, and restaurant
salad bars in Oregon. Nobody died, but 751 people became ill. The
poisonings were preparation for attacks meant to keep voters home during
a local election in which a cult member was running for a county
judgeship.
Prosecution of cult leaders led to the dispersement of the
organization.
There was a program on TV all about it recently


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[meauxna]

Originally posted by ScottHenshaw

"1. The Bhagwan Shri

Rashneesh were trying to poison a whole town with salmonella in order to
fix a local election. "

Really, I did not know that. When I lived

in Portland at the time, I was only about 14 years old or so... I knew
that their elevator did not go to the top, but did not know that they
put poison in the water system

Scott

Scott, this was
after they bought the ranch. The targeted town was The Dalles and they
put the bacteria in a local salad bar. Their Grand Plan(tm) was to make
enough people so sick as to miss voting in the local election with the
intended result of Sheila and the rest of the heavies getting elected to
local gov't to control zoning. (sektcy memories...maybe I should look it
up, but this is how I remember it)
Remember how they rounded up and
trucked in homeless folk to add to the voting rolls out there too?


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[mtravelkay]

Leslie66 wrote:

Originally posted by Steffi

Leslie, the only pro

that Patrick and I have noticed as far as a married benefit goes is the fact that our car insurance went down. At first we were scared to add me because we thought it would go up, but instead it went down. Aparently being married means you're less likely to take risks.

Unless you marry a 16 year old... Then I would guess it would go up.

[Leslie66]

Originally posted by supernav

Fact is ---they could

care less about rights, and this is just a dumb ploy to *make a point*
in the public eye. In which case they are wasting valuable government
resources and time with their campaigning.

-= nav =-

Really? Don't you think that gay people vote? Don't you think that
every gay person is someone's child, brother, sister, mother, father, or
friend? All of those people vote. That is why this issue won't go
away. It is an election year. Homophobic, bigoted, nazis are not the
only ones that vote.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

[AP]

In article <weQYb.14463$oH7.5423@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com >,
a.a.a@aaa.aaa says...

Leslie66 wrote:

Originally posted by Steffi

Leslie, the only pro

that Patrick and I have noticed as far as a married benefit goes is the fact that our car insurance went down. At first we were scared to add me because we thought it would go up, but instead it went down. Aparently being married means you're less likely to take risks.

Unless you marry a 16 year old... Then I would guess it would go up.

hmm.... In our case car insurance went down after adding me to the
policy

AP

[Andrew DeFaria]

meauxna wrote:

Scott, this was after they bought the ranch. The targeted town was The Dalles and they put the bacteria in a local salad bar. Their Grand Plan(tm) was to make enough people so sick as to miss voting in the local election with the intended result of Sheila and the rest of the heavies getting elected to local gov't to control zoning. (sektcy memories...maybe I should look it up, but this is how I remember it)

So did anybody get convicted? Making allegations is easy. Proving it in
court is another matter...

Remember how they rounded up and trucked in homeless folk to add to the voting rolls out there too?

I remember that charge too. But really, is it illegal? I mean a homeless
person by definition doesn't have a home. Who's to say that they weren't
simply trying to help homeless people and provide them a home.

(Of course election laws may dictate that they cannot vote until they
are a resident for some time...).

--
Copywight 1994 Elmer Fudd. All wights wesewved.