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Thread: Massachusetts documentation

  1. #31
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    Testimony is also considered evidence; it doesn't have to be documentary evidence to be considered.

    Relax. The only one anyone here is in any way annoyed with is chyvan. You're perfectly fine.
    The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbg View Post
    Testimony is also considered evidence; it doesn't have to be documentary evidence to be considered.

    Relax. The only one anyone here is in any way annoyed with is chyvan. You're perfectly fine.
    lol ok ...well i guess all i can do is wait . i know that testimony is evidence but their testimony was awful and inacurate at best so without any substancial and credible evidence to sway our testimony against me so well have to wait

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by synfail View Post
    without any substancial and credible evidence
    This is only something you need to worry about if the decision is adverse to you and you need to appeal to the equivalent of a board of review or into the court system.
    Last edited by chyvan; 10-10-2016 at 09:01 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by synfail View Post
    My point here is how would the U.I director know that I did violate company rules with a positive if the test results were not presented? Im asking respectfuly.
    FYI, not the UI director but a hearing officer.

    The decision will be mailed to you. The first section will be legalese, then it outlines the unemployment case. It goes on to state the evidence. Then it states the decision and the legal reason behind the decision.

    When there is no proof presented, the hearing officer will need to use judgement as to who is more believable. This is why you should takes steps not to irritate the hearing officer.

    It is very hard to guess which way a hearing will go, even if you are present at it. I have seen hearings I thought I won where I lost and vise versa.

    If this was an in person hearing, did you have an initial determination that one side appealed? First decision in MA is usually done via phone and proof being faxed over. Face to face hearings are usually done at first appeal.
    Last edited by HRinMA; 10-11-2016 at 06:51 AM.

  5. #35
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    Even if they didn't present the drug test results in writing, you admitted that you had a document that showed chain of custody of the drug test. Generally (at least in our company) we wouldn't get that documentation unless the test were positive. So the hearing officer migtht trust the verbal statements of HR/employer because you kind of inadvertently agreed that you had the documentation even if they failed to bring/show it. Although it's hard to believe the employer wouldn't have provided that as original evidence if they had it.

    You might get lucky and win this round and your ex-employer might not appeal. But if they can prove you failed a drug test, your chances at UI get much slimmer....

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRinMA View Post
    FYI, not the UI director but a hearing officer.

    The decision will be mailed to you. The first section will be legalese, then it outlines the unemployment case. It goes on to state the evidence. Then it states the decision and the legal reason behind the decision.

    When there is no proof presented, the hearing officer will need to use judgement as to who is more believable. This is why you should takes steps not to irritate the hearing officer.

    It is very hard to guess which way a hearing will go, even if you are present at it. I have seen hearings I thought I won where I lost and vise versa.

    If this was an in person hearing, did you have an initial determination that one side appealed? First decision in MA is usually done via phone and proof being faxed over. Face to face hearings are usually done at first appeal.
    this was i person both sides showed up his testimony was i failed and mine was i never used anything im having a hard time understanding how an impartial hearing officer can give one sides sworn testimony more weight than the others ??? that would show prejudice
    its funny how besides chyvan i havnt had one person give me any strength in this case seems very strange

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hr for me View Post
    Even if they didn't present the drug test results in writing, you admitted that you had a document that showed chain of custody of the drug test. Generally (at least in our company) we wouldn't get that documentation unless the test were positive. So the hearing officer migtht trust the verbal statements of HR/employer because you kind of inadvertently agreed that you had the documentation even if they failed to bring/show it. Although it's hard to believe the employer wouldn't have provided that as original evidence if they had it.

    You might get lucky and win this round and your ex-employer might not appeal. But if they can prove you failed a drug test, your chances at UI get much slimmer....
    ??? I got this chain of custody the day I submitted my urine!! !! I pissed in a cup and he put the lid on it and that was it im not sitting here lying trying to sway anyones opinion actually the exact opposite so I can get a honest impartial answer which seems hard.
    As far as anyone thinking Im lying about my employer not bringing the NEEDED DOCUMENTATION which is what I have read in every single ACTUAL case that I have found online cases that showed positive results but werent split specimen were decided in the employees favor so why am I being led to believe that my employer not even showing ANY test results still has a better chance than I do ??? Just by my own research everything I have found online has pointed in my favor except for the responses I get on this forum which im finding very peculiar .HMMMMM anyway as for me lying about my employer not bringing i am giving everyone on here FACTS not lies i can swear on my late moms soul if that helps but please believe what im saying !! Im not lying !!

  8. #38
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    No one thinks you're lying. But consider this.

    The people who actually have direct experience with MA DUA think this could go either way. If chyvan is the only one who's telling you yes, you're sure to win, and chyvan is the only one posting here who does NOT have direct experience with MA unemployment claims, what does that tell you?

    If you're paying attention, it should tell you that you do not have a slam dunk case. You might get benefits, you might not. Time will tell. The only one who has a vote that counts is the DUA. But other than chyvan, who once found a hat and thinks that makes her a cowboy, we're not going to tell you that you're sure to win when we don't think it's a sure thing.

    Sorry if you find that offensive.
    The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbg View Post
    No one thinks you're lying. But consider this.

    The people who actually have direct experience with MA DUA think this could go either way. If chyvan is the only one who's telling you yes, you're sure to win, and chyvan is the only one posting here who does NOT have direct experience with MA unemployment claims, what does that tell you?

    If you're paying attention, it should tell you that you do not have a slam dunk case. You might get benefits, you might not. Time will tell. The only one who has a vote that counts is the DUA. But other than chyvan, who once found a hat and thinks that makes her a cowboy, we're not going to tell you that you're sure to win when we don't think it's a sure thing.

    Sorry if you find that offensive.
    LMAO @ cowboy lolol omg that was good lol ok ok I get your point . I understand nothing in life is a slam dunk I know that. Just trying to see where this case leans towards at best that pretty much all im asking thanks and take care.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by synfail View Post
    ??? I got this chain of custody the day I submitted my urine!! !! I pissed in a cup and he put the lid on it and that was it im not sitting here lying trying to sway anyones opinion actually the exact opposite so I can get a honest impartial answer which seems hard.
    As far as anyone thinking Im lying about my employer not bringing the NEEDED DOCUMENTATION which is what I have read in every single ACTUAL case that I have found online cases that showed positive results but werent split specimen were decided in the employees favor so why am I being led to believe that my employer not even showing ANY test results still has a better chance than I do ??? Just by my own research everything I have found online has pointed in my favor except for the responses I get on this forum which im finding very peculiar .HMMMMM anyway as for me lying about my employer not bringing i am giving everyone on here FACTS not lies i can swear on my late moms soul if that helps but please believe what im saying !! Im not lying !!
    I don't think you are lying about the company being unprepared. What I said was that in the absence of any solid proof, the hearing officer has to decide if one side is more truthful than the others.

    I didn't see where you replied to my question about whether you had an initial phone hearing and if you did, what were the results then. If the company presented evidence at that point, it can also be used during a face to face appeal.

    By the way, this is no different than in a criminal trial. Even with all the technological advances, sometimes it comes down to "who do you believe more".
    Last edited by HRinMA; 10-11-2016 at 10:23 AM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRinMA View Post
    I don't think you are lying about the company being unprepared. What I said was that in the absence of any solid proof, the hearing officer has to decide if one side is more truthful than the others.

    I didn't see where you replied to my question about whether you had an initial phone hearing and if you did, what were the results then. If the company presented evidence at that point, it can also be used during a face to face appeal.

    By the way, this is no different than in a criminal trial. Even with all the technological advances, sometimes it comes down to "who do you believe more".
    Sorry my fault, at the initial phone hearing there was no drug test results or chain of custody form sent in, I know this because I have the file on this case directly from the U.I. office.
    So with your reply, I want to keep this simple and just ask. How can the hearing director be impartial and give my employer's testimony more weight than mine when the only thing the H.R. director said was that the company performs oral swab tests which was incorrect because the file clearly stated it was for failure of a URINE test, and then I can understand if the witness's (the supervisor that escorted me to the drug test) testimony was that other than "His eyes were shut so I took a picture" (and no picture was presented as evidence BTW) and IF he included past reports of peculiar behaviour along with claiming things like slurred speach,glassy eyes,erratic behavior, but he said NONE of that! Also he first claimed that he sent me to the hospital/clinic down the road and was corrected by the H.R. director and recanted his statement with "oh yes I forgot" so like I have said all along they had very lousy testimony and they are the ones with the burden of proof and im the default position in the case which is what I have read. So once again if there is no evidence, and like you claim the hearing officer has to go with the most truthful testimony how can she stay impartial and still give them more weight than my sworn testimony??? I welcome any questions.

  12. #42
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    let me add that the witness (supervisor) also when asked for the procedure taken at the test he described a single specimen sample and not the required split specimen sample , I also described my test as single specimen, my I.D was not asked for or looked at!!!! this just keeps getting worse and worse for the other side.

  13. #43
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    [QUOTE=cbg;1250061]No one thinks you're lying. But consider this.

    The people who actually have direct experience with MA DUA think this could go either way. If chyvan is the only one who's telling you yes, you're sure to win, and chyvan is the only one posting here who does NOT have direct experience with MA unemployment claims, what does that tell you?

    If you're paying attention, it should tell you that you do not have a slam dunk case. You might get benefits, you might not. Time will tell. The only one who has a vote that counts is the DUA. But other than chyvan, who once found a hat and thinks that makes her a cowboy, we're not going to tell you that you're sure to win when we don't think it's a sure thing.

    Sorry if you find that offensive.

    Im not mad sorry. Its just that life right now is very stressful so Im sorry for lashing out earlier.

  14. #44
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    I understand that you're concerned. But no one's guesses here are binding on the DUA. I don't even want to make a guess on this one; I really can see it going either way.

    All I can tell you is that IF it goes against you, you have the right to appeal. But by the same token, IF it goes in your favor, so does your employer.
    The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by chyvan View Post
    It kind of doesn't matter because the hearing is over, and there is nothing you can do now to change that. If you did need to do something different, the time to make the decision was BEFORE or AT the hearing.

    However, from these links:

    http://www.mass.gov/lwd/unemployment...-11-drug-test/

    http://www.masslegalservices.org/con...ubstance-abuse

    an employer really needs to know what they are doing when they want to fire an employee AND get them denied for UI because a lot can work in the claimant's favor.
    I printed this case of the massachusetts dock worker and his employer actually had the chain of custody form and the lab test results along with the employer's witness and the employer STILL LOST !!!!! Wow Im pretty sure just by how this case worked out Im good to go !!! If this employer still lost with all the proper documentation along with the company Dr just for doing a single specimen compared to my case with my employer having NO DOCUMENTATION I cant see how I would lose !!!?? Thanks for posting.

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    Sorry, but one data point does not prove anything. That was most likely with a different hearing officer, who may have been having a crappy day, who may have not liked the employer's representative's face because it reminded him of a childhood bully for all we know.

    Based on the facts you've presented, truly, your case is a toss up. It could go either way. I know you want some kind of 100% assurance, but if any of us had a crystal ball, we would be on a beach somewhere.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferretrick View Post
    Sorry, but one data point does not prove anything. That was most likely with a different hearing officer, who may have been having a crappy day, who may have not liked the employer's representative's face because it reminded him of a childhood bully for all we know.

    Based on the facts you've presented, truly, your case is a toss up. It could go either way. I know you want some kind of 100% assurance, but if any of us had a crystal ball, we would be on a beach somewhere.
    Talk about trying to find any reason to lean towards the employer side wow that was good lol . I just reread every post I wrote and not once did I ever ask for a 100% opinion more like I have asked for an educated guess which by some the replies that seems impossible. But what I can say is that from the beginning i didn't know much about how these things are decided but along the way I have researched and found the governing laws and rules on that these cases are ruled on AND many past cases that although were less solid than mine still went in the employee favor.so with all that said I guess I have answered my own question basically asking for an educated guess which with all the facts and past decisions I have found my case CLEARLY leans in my favor. Sorry if that not what most want to hear but it's based on FACT not crazy scenarios like the last one given

  18. #48
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    Remember I said no one was annoyed with you? That's starting to change. It's no skin off the nose of anyone here if you get benefits or if you don't, but your insistence that we give you more than we already have is getting really old. The EDUCATED guesses say this could go either way.

    So, since you've got your "educated" guess and decided for yourself, with the help of our not-so-beloved non-expert, that your case is clear, guess you don't need anything more from us, right?
    The above answer, whatever it is, assumes that no legally binding and enforceable contract or CBA says otherwise. If it does, then the terms of the contract or CBA apply.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbg View Post
    Remember I said no one was annoyed with you? That's starting to change. It's no skin off the nose of anyone here if you get benefits or if you don't, but your insistence that we give you more than we already have is getting really old. The EDUCATED guesses say this could go either way.

    So, since you've got your "educated" guess and decided for yourself, with the help of our not-so-beloved non-expert, that your case is clear, guess you don't need anything more from us, right?
    No I should be all set now, thanks for all the incentive that motivated me to research the procedural law that governs these hearings. It was with all the "help" that I recieved on here that caused me to answer my own questions. You guys are great and I cant thank all of you enough.

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