Problem with Social Services

[ScaredtoDeath]

We have a huge problem and don't know what to do.

My SIL has issues but nothing she couldn't overcome with a some help.

Her ex-boyfriend, and father of her child, is another matter. This is a man who is a convicted felon - with guns in the house - I thought that was illegal??? He refused to acknowledge the baby when she was born and even made my SIL sign a paper saying he doesn't have to pay child support. Somewhere down the line, it came out he was the father, and he never payed a dime for her medical expenses...even tho that was the only thing the court ordered. He's never paid for her clothing, housing, food etc.

He is the father of of 2 other girls, but different mothers. The first daughter was pregnant at 15. The second mother fled the state and moved to Oregon. My SIL gave him some of the money to fight for custody of the second girl but he lost. The second mother alleged violence and lack of support for reasons why they moved. He was not married to either of the girls parents.

Meanwhile, my SIL is in foreclosure and has been fighting the need to move back to MI and live with her mother. As MILs funds have run out, she has started cutting off SIL's lines of credit etc. Ex-boyfriend, realizing that the money train was about to end, warned my SIL that "social services is going to fine out about this" and warning her she had to 'clean up the house' etc. A week later, before Xmas, my neice went to school and repeated everything the Ex- had said to the school.

Social Services got involved.

Also, since MIL was supporting them, the child wasn't on welfare. Ex was upset, and he and his mother were quite adamant that the child get on welfare and 'get what she has coming'.

Social Services is botching the entire thing. They refuse to talk to us and investigate the father. They sent investigators to the house 'because she's spending time over there' but no mention of guns so he moved them. Also he has 4 people living in a two bedroom apt - where is this child supposed to sleep? As far as we can tell, he admitted to beating the child to the school, but she hasn't investigated that. He, a grand worker of 'the system', is coming off like rose and he's throwing SIL under a bus.

Social Services said they'd give my SIL a form so she could talk to us - but as of last night - SIL has never seen it.

Ex has said he's now going to apply for custody.

We need to step in and apply for temporary custody. But we need some general questions answered first.

In some types of law, its better to be the served first. Like if you're accused of intellectual theft, he who brings the case spends all the money proving it. Is it the same way in family law? Is it better for us to wait until he makes his move so he has to spend money (he doesn't have) to defend? Or do we move now? I'm scared to death the child will end up hurt but he's smart and won't do anything until he has total custody.

Do we need an individual bedroom for the child? Or can she share with our daughter? If we do, we are willing to move.

Can we force Social Services to talk to us? I can't believe this woman is saying 'she doesn't have permission' when we are stating violence in the past, as well as another child with violence. The Social Services system in Ky. seems to have a lot of deaths to children in the system, according the news reports, but are fighting releasing the info. So, this is a systemic problem?

Is there anything else we should know about this up-front. We don't have millions to spend on an attorney, but we can't sit back and watch this beautiful girl end up pregnant at 15 too because of this family. And trust me - all the girls are pregnant young on his side.

Thanks,

[Dogmatique]

First, we need to know where you're located and where the parents are.

Second, who exactly is wanting temporary custody? Mom? You? Someone else? Who is "we" and "us"?

(It matters)

[ScaredtoDeath]

Both parents and the child are in Kentucky.

We are in California. My husband is the brother of the mom. I'm married to him. We have one daughter.

My mother-in-law is in Michigan. She is the maternal grandmother.

And I don't know if this makes a difference, but my SIL (the mom) is making mistakes in parenting right now. She can get it together eventually. Is it possible to have temporary custody until she gets it together?

The father will never get it together.

Thanks.

[Dogmatique]

Both parents and the child are in Kentucky.

We are in California. My husband is the brother of the mom. I'm married to him. We have one daughter.

My mother-in-law is in Michigan. She is the maternal grandmother.

And I don't know if this makes a difference, but my SIL (the mom) is making mistakes in parenting right now. She can get it together eventually. Is it possible to have temporary custody until she gets it together?

The father will never get it together.

Thanks.

Without the courts deeming both parents legally unfit, you have no chance at custody of any sort unless both parents agree to you having some sort of custody.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but also, you have no standing to request or demand that social services talk to you. You are legal strangers (it's a legal term, not a reflection on your personal relationship with the parents/children), and in fact social services may well be barred from sharing information about an ongoing investigation.

It gets worse, I'm afraid. You're across the country from the parents and the child. If social services do remove the child, they're going to look at local placement first with any local relative who is willing and able to take the child; if not, you could suggest yourselves as an appropriate placement but they may opt to keep the child with a local foster family until Mom and/or Dad straighten out. They WILL be given at least one opportunity to get their act together.

(The goal is generally reunification with one or both parents)


But in short, if social services haven't deemed Dad unfit he's likely going to get custody of his child if Mom is having problems.

[ScaredtoDeath]

You are right, I didn't want to hear this.

I just don't understand. The father is not a father and never has been...until there was welfare money on the table. He admitted to the school that 'he believes in corporal punnishment' in response to a group meeting between the childs teachers, a school social worker, and 3 other individuals connected with the school in response to the child being unable to sit for a week after being beaten with a belt so hard. How can checking out his home because she's now spending so much time there - by their order - be considered safe by any measure?

Can I hire a detective? What can I do to protect my niece when the system is helping the father?

Sorry to keep going but there has to be something we can do.

[drruthless]

You are right, I didn't want to hear this.

I just don't understand. The father is not a father and never has been...until there was welfare money on the table. He admitted to the school that 'he believes in corporal punnishment' in response to a group meeting between the childs teachers, a school social worker, and 3 other individuals connected with the school in response to the child being unable to sit for a week after being beaten with a belt so hard. How can checking out his home because she's now spending so much time there - by their order - be considered safe by any measure?

Can I hire a detective? What can I do to protect my niece when the system is helping the father?

Sorry to keep going but there has to be something we can do.

You could pray he gets struck by lightning.

He is the father of of 2 other girls, but different mothers. The first daughter was pregnant at 15. The second mother fled the state and moved to Oregon.

Are you saying that HE got a 15 old girl pregnant?
That could just be the bolt of lightening you're looking for.

[ScaredtoDeath]

Lightening sounds good.

No, his first daughter got pregnant at 15. The second was allowed to leave the state because of allegations of non-support and violence.

Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it.

Our system is really messed up.

[Dogmatique]

You are right, I didn't want to hear this.

I just don't understand. The father is not a father and never has been...until there was welfare money on the table. He admitted to the school that 'he believes in corporal punnishment' in response to a group meeting between the childs teachers, a school social worker, and 3 other individuals connected with the school in response to the child being unable to sit for a week after being beaten with a belt so hard. How can checking out his home because she's now spending so much time there - by their order - be considered safe by any measure?

Can I hire a detective? What can I do to protect my niece when the system is helping the father?

Sorry to keep going but there has to be something we can do.

I have to ask, I'm sorry.

You're several states away.

How do you know what's happening?

[Dogmatique]

Um...doc?

Seriously? Are you reading the same thread?

1. This is not OP's grandchild.

2. Social services are already involved

3. OP is likely NOT aware of what is actually happening

4. I guess Caylee Anthony is the current flavour of Godwin's Law, huh?

5. You do understand that the OP has no standing to demand information from social services, correct?

Your response..confused me. Actually concerns me in a way.

[ScaredtoDeath]

By the way, I must commend both Dogmatique and Dr. Ruthless for their names. Absolutely a great blend of wit and appropriateness.

OK, I'm feeling a little less freaked out. I apologize for just blurting stuff out. This is very emotional and hard to deal with. Especially since it appears the system is geered to allowing this travesty to continue.

We know what's happening because we are constantly being informed by the childs mother. She was always having trouble with the father. And because my SIL wasn't working, she was constantly talking to her mom (the Grandmother) about what was happening. Plus, we've been talking with the mom and we see the whole family over the Holidays (right after he started all this).

I could kick myself because over the years, I kept asking my MIL to make a list of all this crap, but she was always worried about overstepping the bounds. As it got worse, I tried to make a list, but it was too late and I was missing a lot of the really bad stuff. Then everybody was saying since he's not on the birth certificate, it wouldn't matter. Apparently, that doesn't matter either.

I do agree with Dr. Ruthless about starting to make waves.

Thanks again,

Scared to Death

[Alice Dodd]

Social services cannot DISCUSS the issues with you. However, I have several times intervened on someone's behalf. When they tell me they can't discuss it, I just tell them I don't need them to discuss anything but there are things they need to know, and they have let me tell them what I know and they can ask questions. They just can't tell YOU anything. However, after the talks I had, things changed. One was a kid I knew in foster care whose room had a sliding glass door with no lock. The lock was replaced the next day.

Just be friendly, say you have some concerns you'd like to share for them to follow up on. If they're smart, they'll at least listen to what you have to say. BUT, keep in mind that the SIL has a self serving interest in being the victim here (if she had any brains she'd take herself and the kid to a shelter instead of just whining), and may not be telling the whole truth, or even the exact truth.

[drruthless]

Um...doc?

Seriously? Are you reading the same thread?

1. This is not OP's grandchild.

2. Social services are already involved

3. OP is likely NOT aware of what is actually happening

4. I guess Caylee Anthony is the current flavour of Godwin's Law, huh?

5. You do understand that the OP has no standing to demand information from social services, correct?

Your response..confused me. Actually concerns me in a way.

ooOPs,
dyslexia and ADD,
a hell of a combination...

..______________
~ I shoot from the hip and rarely miss,
… my foot.

[ScaredtoDeath]

I have no idea what OP is. Sorry.

Alice -

A few weeks ago, trying to get the Social Worker to speak with us in depth, she told us she couldn't and that she'd give my SIL a form to sign so that she could speak with us. She never did. Late on Thursday, my husband called the Social Worker and told them he wanted a call back, that she hadn't returned his calls all this time, that he had serious worries about the childs safety, and 'is it time to get a lawyer'? We found out today that the paperwork was delivered to my SIL on Friday morning and she signed it. It's a Holiday weekend, so hopefully we'll speak with her on Tuesday.

And yes, my SIL is a Victim, with a capital V. But she has never intentionally hurt somebody and she always tries to do the right thing. She is, unfortunately, the type to stick her head under the covers and not deal with the train heading straight for her. She should have stopped the child seeing the father after what happened before Christmas but in the spirit of forgiveness (or stupidity in my mind) didn't. He's used that time to build a case against her. She is unable to see what is happening and is not a manipulator of the system so doesn't understand what is going on. Or at least enough of it. Or maybe she just thinks they can work it out. They can't. He told her on Friday that he filed for custody.

She's been crying ever sense. A fat lot of good that will do.

I don't know how long something like that takes to get from the courthouse to her...but it's coming.

ScaredtoDeath

[cbg]

OP = Original Poster = you

[cactus jack]

I'm sorry I havn't been around lately.

Ex has said he's now going to apply for custody.

We need to step in and apply for temporary custody. But we need some general questions answered first.

In some types of law, its better to be the served first. Like if you're accused of intellectual theft, he who brings the case spends all the money proving it. Is it the same way in family law? Is it better for us to wait until he makes his move so he has to spend money (he doesn't have) to defend? Or do we move now? I'm scared to death the child will end up hurt but he's smart and won't do anything until he has total custody.

I think that you would be better of acting first. But in doing so you’ll need a lawyer or social worker to help. Those two would know far more than any of us.

Do we need an individual bedroom for the child? Or can she share with our daughter? If we do, we are willing to move.

They might require that, but I’m thinking that because of age and being same gender, they won’t raise a fuss over sharing bedrooms.

Can we force Social Services to talk to us? I can't believe this woman is saying 'she doesn't have permission' when we are stating violence in the past, as well as another child with violence. The Social Services system in Ky. seems to have a lot of deaths to children in the system, according the news reports, but are fighting releasing the info. So, this is a systemic problem?

Well, though it does sound like it, there is a chance that it could be a part of the standard operating procedure.

Is there anything else we should know about this up-front. We don't have millions to spend on an attorney, but we can't sit back and watch this beautiful girl end up pregnant at 15 too because of this family.

One thing I have learned is if you are not satisfied with what SS does in abusive cases such as this, you can contact the state representative and seek his/her assistance in resolving the matter.

And I don't know if this makes a difference, but my SIL (the mom) is making mistakes in parenting right now. She can get it together eventually. Is it possible to have temporary custody until she gets it together?

If she is willing to let you take temporary custody, yes it can be done. But it must be voluntary on her end. Only exception is by court order, and those are not always the best route to take. Doing this voluntarily is almost always the best route to take.

OK, I'm feeling a little less freaked out. I apologize for just blurting stuff out. This is very emotional and hard to deal with. Especially since it appears the system is geered to allowing this travesty to continue.

That’s ok. We understand. And that is part of what we do here.

I could kick myself because over the years, I kept asking my MIL to make a list of all this crap, but she was always worried about overstepping the bounds. As it got worse, I tried to make a list, but it was too late and I was missing a lot of the really bad stuff. Then everybody was saying since he's not on the birth certificate, it wouldn't matter. Apparently, that doesn't matter either.

No, it DOES matter. Start one as soon as you can. IOW NOW, if you havn’t already.

And yes, my SIL is a Victim, with a capital V. But she has never intentionally hurt somebody and she always tries to do the right thing. She is, unfortunately, the type to stick her head under the covers and not deal with the train heading straight for her.

It would help her a whole lot if you can help her seek counseling. That can be affordable as many counselors charge their fees on a sliding scale. If that is still a problem, there are churches that can help as well.

Please keep us updated on your progress in this issue. If you need anything more, you know where we're at.