Hot buttons, and Psych 101

[Bill in Co.]

I'd like to suggest something here.

Why is it that certain things said really get to some of us? The answer
is that it touches or rankles something inside of us, something that hasn't
been fully resolved, in our own psyches. Otherwise it would really be a
non issue - there would be no such strong emotions attached to these
particular issues. But can we be honest with ourselves?

I'm not expressing this the best way, but maybe someone else can. I think
you know what I mean though. It's just a truism. A tenet of
pyschology. And we're ALL guilty of it. Because, down deep inside, we
ALL have some unresolved issues - some hot buttons - some unresolved issues.
There are no exceptions that I know of on this planet.

Anyway, that's my perspective.

[Ignoramus17461]

In article <xOpYc.1828$w%6.1068@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink. net>, Bill in Co. wrote:

I'd like to suggest something here. Why is it that certain things said really get to some of us? The answer is that it touches or rankles something inside of us, something that hasn't been fully resolved, in our own psyches. Otherwise it would really be a non issue - there would be no such strong emotions attached to these particular issues. But can we be honest with ourselves? I'm not expressing this the best way, but maybe someone else can. I think you know what I mean though. It's just a truism. A tenet of pyschology. And we're ALL guilty of it. Because, down deep inside, we ALL have some unresolved issues - some hot buttons - some unresolved issues. There are no exceptions that I know of on this planet. Anyway, that's my perspective.

You are forgetting that to some of us, some issues are simply very
interesting because of our personal experiences. That's why some of us
talk about some things. Because we can relate to other people with
similar experience, we like thinking about those issues and what they
mean to us.

i

[JWB]

"Bill in Co." <surly8ccurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:xOpYc.1828$w%6.1068@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...

I'd like to suggest something here. Why is it that certain things said really get to some of us? The answer is that it touches or rankles something inside of us, something that hasn't been fully resolved, in our own psyches. Otherwise it would really be a non issue - there would be no such strong emotions attached to these particular issues. But can we be honest with ourselves?

You're forgetting that some of us (like me) just find many topics
interesting and like to debate / argue them. Because i argue with you about
"fat" doesn't mean "fat" is a hidden issue with me. Not at all.

[WhansaMi]

>Bill in Co." <surly8ccurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:xOpYc.1828$w%6.1068@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...

You're forgetting that some of us (like me) just find many topicsinteresting and like to debate / argue them. Because i argue with you about"fat" doesn't mean "fat" is a hidden issue with me. Not at all.

Well, I spoke on this topic some time ago... how I don't think that having an
opinion about a subject -- even a strong emotion about it --- means unresolved
issues.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Even Freud accepted that.

Sheila

[WhansaMi]

I was thinking about this, and I think I can identify the source of my
irritation with you about this, Bill.

I hate being told that I should adhere to some standard that doesn't make sense
to me, and I don't personally ascribe to, and then being told that, because I
don't adhere to it, I have some defect.

I don't accept things just because "that is the way it always is", or because
the majority of people think it "should" be that way. This is pretty much true
in all areas of my life, and has become more pronounced as I've gotten older.
And, as I've gotten older -- and more confident --- I am less willing to accept
the condescension that usually accompanies the "that's the way it should be"
folks. Because, it is never just that things are different, they are always
*worse* in their eyes.

So, yes, it irritates me when folks --- you included --- look down their noses
and ascribe characters flaws to folks who aren't within the "normal" range on
the weight guidelines. It also irritates me when some quilters look down their
noses on fiber artists who use glue to do fabric collage. Are you suggesting
that I have unresolved issues around quilting????

This isn't, for me, about weight. It is about arrogance, and an unwillingness
to accept that people can hold different views, and choose different paths, and
that their paths may be every bit as valid as yours. It is about someone
assuming an air of superiority when I don't think such an air is warranted.

Sheila

[Lauri]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 19:22:31 GMT, "JWB" <bigtommbtyjb543@servo.com
actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote:

"Bill in Co." <surly8ccurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in messagenews:xOpYc.1828$w%6.1068@newsread1.news.pas .earthlink.net...

You're forgetting that some of us (like me) just find many topicsinteresting and like to debate / argue them. Because i argue with you about"fat" doesn't mean "fat" is a hidden issue with me. Not at all.

It always comes down to this with Bill....if you disagree with him,
it's because you're incapable of being honest with yourself. I am
guessing that's because Bill feels too insecure within himself to
question his own beliefs.

It's scary that he's teaching at the college level. I pray to God
that he's teaching something factual like math, and not ethics.

Lauri in WA

I like my email spamless

[Joy]

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040829195525.27025.00000032@mb-m13.aol.com...

I was thinking about this, and I think I can identify the source of my irritation with you about this, Bill. I hate being told that I should adhere to some standard that doesn't make

sense

to me, and I don't personally ascribe to, and then being told that,

because I

don't adhere to it, I have some defect. I don't accept things just because "that is the way it always is", or

because

the majority of people think it "should" be that way. This is pretty much

true

in all areas of my life, and has become more pronounced as I've gotten

older.

And, as I've gotten older -- and more confident --- I am less willing to

accept

the condescension that usually accompanies the "that's the way it should

be"

folks. Because, it is never just that things are different, they are

always

*worse* in their eyes. So, yes, it irritates me when folks --- you included --- look down their

noses

and ascribe characters flaws to folks who aren't within the "normal" range

on

the weight guidelines. It also irritates me when some quilters look down

their

noses on fiber artists who use glue to do fabric collage. Are you

suggesting

that I have unresolved issues around quilting???? This isn't, for me, about weight. It is about arrogance, and an

unwillingness

to accept that people can hold different views, and choose different

paths, and

that their paths may be every bit as valid as yours. It is about someone assuming an air of superiority when I don't think such an air is

warranted.

Sheila

You know, Sheila, I think I like you.

[WhansaMi]

>> This isn't, for me, about weight. It is about arrogance, and an

unwillingness

paths, and

warranted.

You know, Sheila, I think I like you.

Why, thank you, ma'am!

Sheila

[Bill in Co.]

WhansaMi wrote:

I was thinking about this, and I think I can identify the source of my irritation with you about this, Bill. I hate being told that I should adhere to some standard that doesn't make sense to me, and I don't personally ascribe to, and then being told that, because I don't adhere to it, I have some defect.

I don't think that is all of it, by a long shot. I think you're still
deluding yourself a little bit. Are you going to rule that totally out,
unequivocably, without any doubt? Are you going to tell me that you have
no interest in losing a few pounds (assuming you are overweight)? That
you wouldn't feel better doing so?

I don't accept things just because "that is the way it always is", or

because

the majority of people think it "should" be that way. This is pretty much true in all areas of my life, and has become more pronounced as I've

gotten

older. And, as I've gotten older -- and more confident --- I am less

willing

to accept the condescension that usually accompanies the "that's the way

it

should be" folks. Because, it is never just that things are different,

they

are always *worse* in their eyes.

No, you still don't get what I'm saying. For one thing, it's about being
in good shape. Would you be happy of not being in good shape (if that is
indeed the case), when you know perfectly well you could be? (Yes or no).

So, yes, it irritates me when folks --- you included --- look down their

noses

and ascribe characters flaws to folks who aren't within the "normal" range

on

the weight guidelines. It also irritates me when some quilters look down their noses on fiber artists who use glue to do fabric collage. Are you suggesting that I have unresolved issues around quilting????

Oh give me a break, Sheila. I guess I should drag in the serial killer
issue here, it would be just as logical as this. Ahhh, you can be so
frustrating (unlike me, of course).

This isn't, for me, about weight. It is about arrogance, and an

unwillingness

to accept that people can hold different views, and choose different

paths,

and that their paths may be every bit as valid as yours. It is about

someone

assuming an air of superiority when I don't think such an air is

warranted.

Sheila

When I was a smoker, I could have said the same thing - and probably did.
When I was an alcoholic, I could have said the same thing too (except I
never was an alcoholic, so I guess that is a moot point).

[Bill in Co.]

Lauri wrote:

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 19:22:31 GMT, "JWB" <bigtommbtyjb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote:

answer

is that it touches or rankles something inside of us, something that

hasn't

been fully resolved, in our own psyches. Otherwise it would really be

a

non issue - there would be no such strong emotions attached to these particular issues. But can we be honest with ourselves? You're forgetting that some of us (like me) just find many topics interesting and like to debate / argue them. Because i argue with you

about

"fat" doesn't mean "fat" is a hidden issue with me. Not at all. It always comes down to this with Bill....if you disagree with him, it's because you're incapable of being honest with yourself. I am guessing that's because Bill feels too insecure within himself to question his own beliefs. It's scary that he's teaching at the college level. I pray to God that he's teaching something factual like math, and not ethics. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

I'm gonna teach you ethics and serenity if it kills me, Lauri. And it
just might. Too bad you won't see this, and will forever remain at a loss.
I'll send ya my prayers!!

[Bill in Co.]

WhansaMi wrote:

This isn't, for me, about weight. It is about arrogance, and an unwillingness to accept that people can hold different views, and choose different paths, and that their paths may be every bit as valid as

yours.

It is about someone assuming an air of superiority when I don't think

such

an air is warranted. Sheila You know, Sheila, I think I like you. Why, thank you, ma'am! Sheila

Two in denial? Classic. :-)

[Tara D]

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 00:37:59 GMT, "Bill in Co."
<surly8ccurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote:

WhansaMi wrote:

yours.

such

Two in denial? Classic. :-)

Three, if that's the way you want to see it.

Tara

[WhansaMi]

>WhansaMi wrote:

I was thinking about this, and I think I can identify the source of my irritation with you about this, Bill. I hate being told that I should adhere to some standard that doesn't make sense to me, and I don't personally ascribe to, and then being told that, because I don't adhere to it, I have some defect.I don't think that is all of it, by a long shot. I think you're stilldeluding yourself a little bit. Are you going to rule that totally out,unequivocably, without any doubt?

Yes. At my age, coming from where I'm coming from, I can rule that out.

Are you going to tell me that you have

no interest in losing a few pounds (assuming you are overweight)? Thatyou wouldn't feel better doing so?

No, I wouldn't feel better doing so. If I did, I would.

This has been a process for me. I couldn't have said that even a year ago.
Remember, I'm the woman whose husband didn't see her without make-up till she
was hospitalized. But, looking at why I had been yo-yoing with my weight,
looking at why I was *trying* to lose weight, I realized I was truly **only**
losing weight for others. Even the health issues I thought were related to
weight turned out not to be related at all.

A while back, I was starting to have insulin resistance problems. I started
looking for a way AGAIN to lose weight, because that is standard in what they
tell you to do. Long story short, I discovered that I can control that with a
low carb diet. I don't lose a pound, mind you, but my blood work is GREAT! On
a low carb diet, my blood pressure is great. All without losing a pound.

So, no. I'm not interested. Thanks anyway. :-)

I don't accept things just because "that is the way it always is", orbecause

gotten

willing

it

they

No, you still don't get what I'm saying. For one thing, it's about beingin good shape. Would you be happy of not being in good shape (if that isindeed the case), when you know perfectly well you could be? (Yes or no).

I'm in perfectly good shape to do the things I want to do. So, no. I don't
particularly "want" to be in better shape, **especially** if it is going to
have a negative impact on my quality of life (i.e., being focussed on calories,
forcing myself to go to the gym more often, having to give up having fun
dinners with friends).

noses

on

Oh give me a break, Sheila. I guess I should drag in the serial killerissue here, it would be just as logical as this. Ahhh, you can be sofrustrating (unlike me, of course).

I truly have no idea what you are talking about here.

unwillingness

paths,

someone

warranted.

When I was a smoker, I could have said the same thing - and probably did.When I was an alcoholic, I could have said the same thing too (except Inever was an alcoholic, so I guess that is a moot point).

Eh. You know, we've both said something similar about other poster here.
You'd be surprised how much like him you sound.

Sheila

[Bill in Co.]

WhansaMi wrote:

WhansaMi wrote:

make

sense to me, and I don't personally ascribe to, and then being told

that,

because I don't adhere to it, I have some defect. I don't think that is all of it, by a long shot. I think you're still deluding yourself a little bit. Are you going to rule that totally out, unequivocably, without any doubt? Yes. At my age, coming from where I'm coming from, I can rule that out. Are you going to tell me that you have

No, I wouldn't feel better doing so. If I did, I would. This has been a process for me. I couldn't have said that even a year

ago.

Remember, I'm the woman whose husband didn't see her without make-up till

she

was hospitalized. But, looking at why I had been yo-yoing with my weight, looking at why I was *trying* to lose weight, I realized I was truly

**only**

losing weight for others.

Not for others, for yourself. For others is just extra gravy.

Even the health issues I thought were related to weight turned out not to be related at all.

But diabetes and other things are linked to obesity. You think being in
the normal range is all academic and purely visual?

A while back, I was starting to have insulin resistance problems. I

started

looking for a way AGAIN to lose weight, because that is standard in what

they

tell you to do. Long story short, I discovered that I can control that

with a

low carb diet. I don't lose a pound, mind you, but my blood work is

GREAT!

On a low carb diet, my blood pressure is great. All without losing a

pound.

So, no. I'm not interested. Thanks anyway. :-)

Do I strike you as being that kind of guy? Boy, you don't know me very
well! I should let you talk with my ex. And an officer in the service
(but that's another story), and a previous work supervisor, and the list
goes on... LOL

pretty much true in all areas of my life, and has become more pronounced

as

I've gotten older. And, as I've gotten older -- and more confident --- I am less

willing

to accept the condescension that usually accompanies the "that's the way

it

should be" folks. Because, it is never just that things are different,

they

are always *worse* in their eyes.

Trust me, I'm very different, and understand that viewpoint more than you
can possibly know. Although you may have seen some hints of it already.
:-)

No, you still don't get what I'm saying. For one thing, it's about

being

in good shape. Would you be happy of not being in good shape (if that

is

indeed the case), when you know perfectly well you could be? (Yes or

no).

I'm in perfectly good shape to do the things I want to do. So, no. I

don't

particularly "want" to be in better shape, **especially** if it is going

to

have a negative impact on my quality of life (i.e., being focussed on calories, forcing myself to go to the gym more often, having to give up having fun dinners with friends).

"normal"

range on the weight guidelines. It also irritates me when some quilters look down their noses on fiber artists who use glue to do fabric

collage.

Are you suggesting that I have unresolved issues around quilting???? Oh give me a break, Sheila. I guess I should drag in the serial killer issue here, it would be just as logical as this. Ahhh, you can be so frustrating (unlike me, of course). I truly have no idea what you are talking about here.

Ummm, it was in reference to one of my earlier posts today with JWB about
doing what feels good (eliminating the serial killers and the joy I would
get from doing so) -nevermind.

This isn't, for me, about weight. It is about arrogance, and an unwillingness to accept that people can hold different views, and choose different paths, and that their paths may be every bit as valid as yours. It is about someone assuming an air of superiority when I don't think such an air is warranted. Sheila

Well then, we disagree on this one. Maybe we need to agree to disagree
on it.

When I was a smoker, I could have said the same thing - and probably did. When I was an alcoholic, I could have said the same thing too (except I never was an alcoholic, so I guess that is a moot point). Eh. You know, we've both said something similar about other poster here. You'd be surprised how much like him you sound.

Come again? Err, wait a minute. If you going back in time here, I think
I know what you meant. Geeez, am I becoming THAT bad?
GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Sheila

[WhansaMi]

<snip back and forth between Bill and I>

But, looking at why I had been yo-yoing with my weight,

**only**

Not for others, for yourself. For others is just extra gravy.

No. That's what I mean. I have always done it for others. It has never been
important to me, for me. It was always because the ex wanted me to do it, or I
was going back home and the family (all little tiny, petite women) would think
badly of me.

I hardly notice others' weight. It certainly isn't something that is important
to me. For **me**, my weight is a non-issue. That's why I've stopped dieting.
I am no longer influenced by the only motivation I ever really had.

But diabetes and other things are linked to obesity. You think being inthe normal range is all academic and purely visual?

As I said below, my insulin resistance can be resolved without my losing a
pound. It wasn't weight related.


<snip>

> This isn't, for me, about weight. It is about arrogance, and an> unwillingness to accept that people can hold different views, and choose> different paths,> and that their paths may be every bit as valid as yours. It is about> someone assuming an air of superiority when I don't think such an air is> warranted.>> SheilaWell then, we disagree on this one. Maybe we need to agree to disagreeon it.

Works for me.

Come again? Err, wait a minute. If you going back in time here, I thinkI know what you meant. Geeez, am I becoming THAT bad?GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Um, yeah. You do sound that bad.

Sheila

[_calinda_]

WhansaMi wrote:

This isn't, for me, about weight. It is about arrogance, and an unwillingness to accept that people can hold different views, and choose different paths, and that their paths may be every bit as valid as yours. It is about someone assuming an air of superiority when I don't think such an air is warranted. Sheila

Sheila,
I love you :-)
Cal~

[_calinda_]

Joy wrote:

You know, Sheila, I think I like you.

Hehehe.. I just sent her an 'I love you'.. so she's MINE.. back off

Cal~
<EG>

[_calinda_]

Bill in Co. wrote:

But diabetes and other things are linked to obesity. You think being in the normal range is all academic and purely visual?

I noticed you did not comment on my earlier post regarding this issue.

That recent research is showing that diabetes causes the weight gain and
obesity, not the other way around. I even posted a link with citations
and everything. It's all right there for you.

Of course, it is important that you ignore anything that might suggest
you might just possible be wrong on an issue.

Cal~

[Joy]

"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2pffsrFjr3a5U1@uni-berlin.de...

Joy wrote:

Hehehe.. I just sent her an 'I love you'.. so she's MINE.. back off Cal~ <EG>

You're just jealous 'cause I got there FIRST!

[_calinda_]

Joy wrote:

"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2pffsrFjr3a5U1@uni-berlin.de...

You're just jealous 'cause I got there FIRST!

Yeah, I saw that after I posted. I thought it pretty funny actually to
see your post right after I hit the send button.

GMTA
Cal~

[Caren]

"JWB" <bigtommbtyjb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:<X1qYc.27035$Ot3.758@twister.nyc.rr.com>...

"Bill in Co." <surly8ccurmudgeon@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:xOpYc.1828$w%6.1068@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...

You're forgetting that some of us (like me) just find many topics interesting and like to debate / argue them. Because i argue with you about "fat" doesn't mean "fat" is a hidden issue with me. Not at all.

Your argument against what Bill is saying gives me the impression that
you are perfect. Everything within you is perfect and needs no
improvement. I don't believe that is true of anyone on the planet.
All of us can get better in some area. I hear some of your arguments
and disagreements with what is said in here and sometimes you sound
like a selfish person who believes that whatever you believe is "the
right" way to do it. That in itself shows me areas where you are
"touched" as Bill said.

We all bring baggage with us and for those that deny that they have
any...well...that says something to me, perhaps not to others.

[JWB]

"Caren" <caren50@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3754f0b3.0408291914.205ba12e@posting.google.c om...

"JWB" <bigtommbtyjb543@servo.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:<X1qYc.27035$Ot3.758@twister.nyc.rr.com>...

Your argument against what Bill is saying gives me the impression that you are perfect.

How do you arrive at that? I told Bill that because i argue about "x" does
not mean "x" must be an issue with me.


Everything within you is perfect and needs no

improvement. I don't believe that is true of anyone on the planet. All of us can get better in some area. I hear some of your arguments and disagreements with what is said in here and sometimes you sound like a selfish person who believes that whatever you believe is "the right" way to do it. That in itself shows me areas where you are "touched" as Bill said.

you obviously haven't read much of me then - I am very willing to admit
fault.

[Bill in Co.]

WhansaMi wrote:

<snip back and forth between Bill and I>

No, Sheila. You mean:

<snip back and forth between Bill and me>

:-)

But, looking at why I had been yo-yoing with my weight,

Not for others, for yourself. For others is just extra gravy. No. That's what I mean. I have always done it for others. It has never

been

important to me, for me. It was always because the ex wanted me to do it,

or

I was going back home and the family (all little tiny, petite women) would think badly of me.

Well, I sure can't make it important to you, if it's not important to you.

I hardly notice others' weight. It certainly isn't something that is important to me. For **me**, my weight is a non-issue. That's why I've stopped dieting. I am no longer influenced by the only motivation I ever really had.

I notice it. Like if I go to the airport or a movie theatre, and somebody
almost takes up 2 seats, or whatever, and I think, "what the hell"? I
guess I should be more compassionate, but it's hard to do in this case,
because *most likely* they have done it to themselves, and what's worse,
they don't even seem to care! I think that is a bit pathetic,though.
They're just selling themselves short.

But diabetes and other things are linked to obesity. You think being

in

the normal range is all academic and purely visual? As I said below, my insulin resistance can be resolved without my losing a pound. It wasn't weight related.

In YOUR particular case. Generally there is a relationship, and we both
know that.

<snip>

choose

>> different paths,>> and that their paths may be every bit as valid as yours. It is about>> someone assuming an air of superiority when I don't think such an air

is

>> warranted.>>>> Sheila Well then, we disagree on this one. Maybe we need to agree to

disagree

on it. Works for me.

did.

> When I was an alcoholic, I could have said the same thing too (except I> never was an alcoholic, so I guess that is a moot point). Eh. You know, we've both said something similar about other poster

here.

You'd be surprised how much like him you sound. Come again? Err, wait a minute. If you going back in time here, I

think

I know what you meant. Geeez, am I becoming THAT bad? GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Um, yeah. You do sound that bad.

Ooops, that is NOT good. I guess I should "hang my head down, Dooley"?
For maybe it's time to cry"?

Did you see my post today on Doo Wop? and the Drifters, et al?

Sheila

[Bill in Co.]

_calinda_ wrote:

Bill in Co. wrote:

I noticed you did not comment on my earlier post regarding this issue. That recent research is showing that diabetes causes the weight gain and obesity, not the other way around. I even posted a link with citations and everything. It's all right there for you. Of course, it is important that you ignore anything that might suggest you might just possible be wrong on an issue. Cal~

OK, so let's see if I have this right, since I don't have the post here.
You are saying that somebody who is obese cannot later develop diabetes, as
a result of being obese in the first place? Now THAT is news to me. I'm
not sure I believe that - that goes against what I've heard in the past.
I'm not saying it CAN'T be the other way (sometimes), though. But - are
you saying it can't be the other way?

[Doug Anderson]

"Bill in Co." <surly8ccurmudgeon@earthlink.net> writes:

Two in denial? Classic. :-)

I'm afraid what is _really_ classic is your dismissal of anyone who
disagrees with you as being "in denial."

[Jennifer]

"Tara D" <manderly@eol.ca> wrote in message
news:iau4j0ddibpasmfel0kbiml6h6vaaj4904@4ax.com...

Two in denial? Classic. :-) Three, if that's the way you want to see it.

Oooooh, oooooh!! Me, me! I get to be number four!

Jennifer, in De Nile

[Doug Laidlaw]

Bill in Co. wrote:

I'd like to suggest something here. Why is it that certain things said really get to some of us? The answer is that it touches or rankles something inside of us, something that hasn't been fully resolved, in our own psyches. Otherwise it would really be a non issue - there would be no such strong emotions attached to these particular issues. But can we be honest with ourselves? I'm not expressing this the best way, but maybe someone else can. I think you know what I mean though. It's just a truism. A tenet of pyschology. And we're ALL guilty of it. Because, down deep inside, we ALL have some unresolved issues - some hot buttons - some unresolved issues. There are no exceptions that I know of on this planet. Anyway, that's my perspective.

I would agree. I said that when i read _Passionate Marriage_, I had an
"Aha!" experience. I was repeating a thought from a book we have about the
things to be gained from reading.

Doug.
--
Commonwealth Youth Games, Bendigo, Australia- http://www.bendigo2004.com
Drama is life with the dull bits cut out.
-- Alfred Hitchcock. (Of course, he is right. Good drama is life-like.)

[_calinda_]

Bill in Co. wrote:

_calinda_ wrote:

OK, so let's see if I have this right, since I don't have the post here. You are saying that somebody who is obese cannot later develop diabetes, as a result of being obese in the first place?

What I am saying is that current information *suggests* that it's more a
matter of which came first.. the weight or the disease. It many cases
it's the opposite of what was previously believed. That many people
gained weight *because* they have (undiagnosed) diabetes or
"pre-diabetes", not that they have diabetes because they gained weight.

Chicken-egg thing, you see?

Now THAT is news to me. I'm not sure I believe that - that goes against what I've heard in the past. I'm not saying it CAN'T be the other way (sometimes), though. But - are you saying it can't be the other way?

I'm NOT saying it "Can't" be the other way, what I'm suggesting to you
is to realize that current information suggests that it may very well be
opposite of what was previously thought for many obese, diabetic people.

I'm also not saying that all fat people are diabetic or that this is
correct for everyone.

What it suggests is that it's not a personality flaw for someone to be
overweight. I think having this kind of information is just one more
tool to help those with weight issues who want to lose weight.

And perhaps you might try practicing some of those old fashioned values
you espouse and stop being so judgmental.

Cal~

[Seeker]

"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2pgpnhFkfia9U1@uni-berlin.de...

What it suggests is that it's not a personality flaw for someone to be overweight. I think having this kind of information is just one more tool to help those with weight issues who want to lose weight.

Since when would it *ever* be a personality flaw?

Ted

[_calinda_]

Seeker wrote:

"_calinda_" <calindasinclair@hotmail.com> wrote in message

Since when would it *ever* be a personality flaw?

Good question. I don't think it IS a personality flaw. Ask Bill why he
thinks it is. Regardless of whether he denies this, his words in this
thread and many other's in the last few years DO suggest that he
considers it to be so.

Cal~

Ted