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Thread: Minor/Adult Dating and or Sexual Intercourse Laws

  1. #1
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    Post Minor/Adult Dating and or Sexual Intercourse Laws

    There are quite a few threads on here concerning 'Age of Consent' laws. I have yet to see any responses that back up what they are saying with fact and proof, and instead, it seems like everyone is basing their response on their own opinions and personal judgment. That is not to say the responses are incorrect, but they have nothing to back them up and show the person what they mean.

    This second link gives a little information on what Age of Consent is and means.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

    Further research may be needed. Remember that Google is your friend! Do not think you know the law, be safe, and be wise!

    Ok time for me to rant now...
    I would like to state that I am a 25 year old male, and I'm still a virgin and **** proud of it! I say this because I've seen to many posts saying "All guys want it sex, sex, sex!" and other useless crap. It's not true for all guys. I have had many girlfriends and many opportunities to have sex with them, but I choose not to because I never felt close enough to them.

    It is my opinion--and you may disagree with this--that nature intended for a female, who has naturally become able to conceive a child (after her body begins to produce eggs), to have sex and conceive children. From a religious point, this usually means she should be married first, but I do not believe this process has anything to do with age!

    I blame society and it's strong emphasis on sex for all the 'sexual predators' in existence. We, as a society, seem to have no value for love and marriage anymore, and all we want is sex. But I think instead of hiding our children from the bad stuff in the world, we should educate them about it so they will know how to make wise decisions when confronted by it.
    Last edited by demartian; 04-24-2007 at 07:36 PM. Reason: Taking out references to moraloutrage.net

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    EVERYTHING I have stated can be backed up current state statutes.

    Your opinion is completely meaningless when it comes to law. It was also acceptable to enslave an entire race of people until recently, in historical terms. Are you saying that since slavery has ALWAYS existed, it is correct or moral? After all, it is the very nature of man to dominate others that he deems inferior. Nice try.

    It's illegal to have sex with a child. Ain't no way around it. I will continue to sheild my children from anything and everything I do not think they are ready to confront. The WHOLE POINT of childhood is to have a time of innocence.
    HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
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    I usually include specific websites which the individual posters can refer to for more information. I will not, however, post statutes on demand for a teenager trying to figure out how to get around the law. If they are smart enough to ask the question, they are smart enough to surf the internet for the answer.

    As to this little nugget:

    "It is my opinion--and you may disagree with this--that nature intended for a female, who has naturally become able to conceive a child (after her body begins to produce eggs), to have sex and conceive children. From a religious point, this usually means she should be married first, but I do not believe this process has anything to do with age!"

    There is a distinct difference between when a boy or girl enters PUBERTY (the physical transition to adulthood) and ADOLESCENCE (the mental transition to adulthood).

    I know how much you like to see things cited, so here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty

    According to a 2005 report on the adolescent brain from the Society for Neuroscience, "Areas involved in planning and decision-making, including the prefrontal cortex -- the cognitive or reasoning area of the brain important for controlling impulses and emotions -- appear not to have yet reached adult dimension during the early twenties... Scientists believe these collective findings may indicate that cognitive control over high-risk behaviors is still maturing during adolescence, making teens more apt to engage in risky behaviors. Also, with the brain's emotion-related areas and connections still maturing, adolescents may be more vulnerable to psychological disorders."

    So you see, in human beings, age has EVERYTHING to do with it.

    For your reading pleasure:

    http://apu.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagenam...dolescentBrain

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    And one other thing -- the age of consent, according to the very definition you posted here,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

    means the minimum age at which a person is considered to be capable of legally giving informed consent (ie, they know what they are consenting to).

    However, reaching the "Age of Consent" does not mean that the penalties for having sex with a minor go away. It simply means that the charges go from being a felony to being a misdemeanor.


    Search the statutes, and you will see penalties in every state for having sex with a minor, even if that minor is ABOVE the age of consent. Type of sexual act, the gender of the actors, or other restrictions such as abuse of a position of trust also make a difference.
    Last edited by MomofBoys; 01-31-2007 at 05:19 PM.

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    Ok, first of all, I never said my opinion was right nor did I say it had anything to do with law. I was merely stating my opinion on the issue.

    The act of Slavery is a totally different issue, and in this thread, it's apples and oranges; It's a poor analogy. While it is true that, historically speaking, man has 'dominated' others less inferior then himself, it is not human nature to do so, and history has proven that--we abolished slavery in the US, and we try to free people that are enslaved in other countries. So, if it's human nature to enslave people, then it's just as much human nature, not to.

    It would seem to me that with-in your analogy, you think slavery is as much a part of our survival as conceiving a child is. So what you are saying is that, at some point in each and every person's life, we feel the need--since it's obviously our nature to do so--to go out and enslave someone to make sure we can survive? Yeah that makes sense. Just because so many countries and cultures have done it before, hardly makes it human nature.

    This is a law site; I posted the law so those who are interested in it can read it and research it. Obviously, some people are lazy and while searching, found this site and figured this would be the place to find the answers they need. Who knows, maybe they came here looking for THE LAW. (no way!?) Yeah... that's why I posted the laws for Age of Consent. I didn't do it to allow teens to find a way around the law, as you seem to think. I did it to help educate those who wanted to know the laws in their state.

    I think you all failed to see my point, but may have proven my last paragraph--that we as a society put too much emphasis on sex. My point wasn't about having free and wild sex with minors. My point was that 'minors' (who are physically able to conceive a child) are mature enough to fall in love and get married, THEN have sex (make love? Hmm maybe...), and have children... as nature intended. My Grandmother (God rest her soul) married at 14 to my Grandfather who, at the time, was 20. They lived a happy life together until the day my Grandmother died in '96. They had many children, all of whom are perfectly normal, loving people.

    And finally, is anyone ever really mature enough for a relationship? Let's think about how many divorces happen each year. It undeniable that a large portion of these are people who were thought to be 'of mature age' and yet, something happened. They found out it's not what they wanted, or they found out they were in an abusive relationship. So, maybe what we should do is raise the 'Age of Consent' to 21, like some other countries have. Or why stop there... I know a lot of immature 21 year olds who are itching to make bad decisions. Let's go for 31... yeah. People at 31 should know enough about life to make a some what informed decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukotto View Post
    Ok, first of all, I never said my opinion was right nor did I say it had anything to do with law. I was merely stating my opinion on the issue.
    Why is it that people who state things that can be proven false then immediately hide behind the "it was just my opinion" curtain. Your "opinion" is that nature decides when a woman is ready for sex and childbearing by virtue of puberty (physically changing her body into a woman) and that AGE has "nothing to do with it." The problem is, your "opinion" goes against the principles of basic PROVEN scientific fact: children's brains do not function fully until they are into their 20's. Their brains, and especially the parts of the brain that rule reasonings and emotions, are not developed at the same time that their bodies mature via puberty.

    Again, here:

    http://apu.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagenam...dolescentBrain

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukotto View Post
    This is a law site; I posted the law so those who are interested in it can read it and research it. Obviously, some people are lazy and while searching, found this site and figured this would be the place to find the answers they need. Who knows, maybe they came here looking for THE LAW. (no way!?) Yeah... that's why I posted the laws for Age of Consent. I didn't do it to allow teens to find a way around the law, as you seem to think. I did it to help educate those who wanted to know the laws in their state.
    While it is apperciated that you posted information, in your effort to "educate" others, you failed to note the fact that "age of consent" does not mean that a teenager who has reached that age can now have sex with an adult. It is still a crime in EVERY state for an adult to have sex with a minor, even if the minor has reached the age of consent. Kind of an important fact to leave out when trying to "educate" others, don't you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukotto View Post
    I think you all failed to see my point, but may have proven my last paragraph--that we as a society put too much emphasis on sex. My point wasn't about having free and wild sex with minors. My point was that 'minors' (who are physically able to conceive a child) are mature enough to fall in love and get married, THEN have sex (make love? Hmm maybe...), and have children... as nature intended. My Grandmother (God rest her soul) married at 14 to my Grandfather who, at the time, was 20. They lived a happy life together until the day my Grandmother died in '96. They had many children, all of whom are perfectly normal, loving people.
    That's fantasic that your grandparents made it. But I think we can all agree that times, they are a-changing, and we cannot really point at a relationship that was formed 75 years ago and say "see, it's normal!" And the fact will always remain that even though your grandparents grew old together happily, you have no way of knowing what their first few years (or decades for that matter) were like together. You have no idea what your 14 year old Grandmother was thinking or feeling when she was expected to have sex with a grown man, or how much it may have physically and/or mentally hurt her.

    You didn't like Mommyof4's analogy, so try on this one: Mary Kay LeTourneau eventually married Vili Fualaau. Are you suggesting that because their love stood the test of time (and prison), that she was justified having sex with a 13 year old boy who was one of her students? He was physically capable of having sex, thersfore, it's impossible that she took advantage of him?

    Again, nature did not intend minors to have children as soon as they are capable of conceiving them. If that were true, then puberty and adolescence would be parallel transitions, and a child's brain would be fully deveolped as soon as their body is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukotto View Post
    And finally, is anyone ever really mature enough for a relationship? Let's think about how many divorces happen each year. It undeniable that a large portion of these are people who were thought to be 'of mature age' and yet, something happened. They found out it's not what they wanted, or they found out they were in an abusive relationship. So, maybe what we should do is raise the 'Age of Consent' to 21, like some other countries have. Or why stop there... I know a lot of immature 21 year olds who are itching to make bad decisions. Let's go for 31... yeah. People at 31 should know enough about life to make a some what informed decision.
    Divorce has nothing to do with maturity. It is about a relationship that is irretrievably broken. There are literally hundrends (perhaps thousands) of reasons why this can happen, including infidelity, physical distance, incompatible personalities, death of a child or family member, loss of affection, change in financial circumstances (both ways, because being rich can cause problems just like being poor can), loss of a job... the list is seemingly endless. Perhaps "lack of maturity" could be one reason, but it certainly is not the reason for all divorces.

    My husband was married to another woman for five years, and their divorce had nothing to do with maturity. On the contrary, when they realized that they both had different goals in life that were not compatable with eachother, they made the very mature decision to part rather than live unhappily together. Their circumstances changed (lucky for me), but they were always mature enough to make their own decisions.

    While your posts seem ridiculous, I will have to refer to the fact that you are still in the age range where your brain may not yet be fully developed.

  7. #7

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    Mom of Boys,

    I could not help but laugh at your ridiculous abuse of logic and science. If mother nature had intended that teenagers not reproduce until their 20’s when their brains are more fully developed, than she would have delayed puberty, the capacity to reproduce, and the desires for sex which are hormonally driven per science, until the 20’s, and she would have developed that brain first. Not only that, the ages of reproductive capability that mother nature chose on average are for the female 12 and 14 for the male. I’m sorry, this really means that they become fertile and reproductive. Getting the female ready in advance of the male seems that Mother Nature set it up that young females would mate with older males who would be more their physical, emotional and sexual equal.

    Regarding your response to Sukotto’s grandmother being married at 14, may I suggest you turn to some history books and learn that up until the late 1800’s, early 1900’s, and even many there after including my mother in law who married at 15, females were quite commonly married by 14-15 years of age, and earlier. It is not known for sure but speculation is that the Virgin Mary was 14. Through the millenniums of human existence, delaying sex until the 20’s was rarely ever done - except for her.

    Age of consent laws have been in our culture for about 700 years. Until the late 1800’s, the age for consent for all those years was between 10-12, fitting with Mother Nature. It is interesting you refer to the “innocence” of teenagers. These laws have had strong religious moral support, with the intent of protecting the “innocence” and “purity” of the female which was believed to exist in her being a virgin, LOST once she had sex. Think for a moment what the opposite of innocent and pure is – that is what she became. I likely am older and remember the 50’s and teachings of the church that sex was ONLY for having children. Decent respectable women did not even enjoy sex, they simply fulfilled their duty to their husbands. It is not that teenagers did not have sex in my youth, but it was that they dare not speak of it to anyone because that meant they were a ***** and a ****. Nice words for young women who simply experienced sex. If a young girl actually got pregnant out of wedlock, either a marriage was forced on her and she became prime focus of horrid gossip, or she was sent to distant relatives or a home for such girls, to be in seclusion and isolation so NO ONE knew. Once the child was born, adoption was forced on her. I actually thought the cultural revolution of the 60’s, women’s liberation, and the tossing of those archaic ideas was a drastic improvement to our existence as human beings. What is really wrong with sex?

    It saddens me to see what is occurring of late with the moral hysteria regarding sexual predators, most of whom are really young men in age of consent situations, or family members. Not surprising considering the divorce and remarriage rates with step fathers and step brothers and sisters. True perverts and predators are rare. This is the newest contemporary witch burnings. Oh I remember the day care worker dramas of the 80’s – they were all molesting our children. Then there were the repressed memories psychologists drummed up where adults remembered their parents sexually assaulting them as babies when they changed their diapers. (Actually impossible) Then there were drive by shootings and gangs out to get us all. Did those gangs go away? There seems to always be an hysteria being promoted almost always over the "children". Sex in any form drives ratings up for the media like nothing else. Everyone turns their heads to listen because EVERYONE does it. Not only that, most everyone enjoys doing it – even the teenagers with those older guys. Moral hysterias give politicians something to manipulate votes on. Oh they will be the one to save us with legislation. So they are coming down HARD on our young sons who are the scapegoat sex predators after the innocent pure little teenager girls. So all the young men, many still teenagers themselves, who didn’t know the law or thought it would not happen to them like the youth think, are having their lives literally destroyed with felony charges, incarceration, and posting on the internet for the rest of their lives that they are sexual deviants when in fact, they only did exactly as mother nature intended, as most all of us do at some point or other, and had consensual sex with someone who wanted to do it with them too.

    You know, we have the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the modern world. Of course, we cannot give these “children” birth control, then they would have sex. Like they are not doing it anyway. Isn’t birth control the best means of preventing pregnancy? Does this really make any sense at all? You know, the rest of the world tends to find our sexual thinking in this regard as bizarre.

    However you would like to paint the world, however you would like it to be, the scientific truth is that teenage and sex go together. Try to protect your children from that fact and don’t be surprised when they parent a child or get an STD. By trying to keep them “innocent”, you are really only protecting your own role as mother with little “children”, refusing to realize that they very soon, will not need you and will leave you for someone else. Teenage is the time the spring chickens emerge from the coup and mother nature is more determined than ever to see her biological imperative fulfilled. It has always been this way and it always will be. It is wrong to try and protect them from life, and it is wrong to punish those who pursue life.

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    And, sue, what do you say when I tell you that my daughter will be physically able to reproduce by the time she is 6 years old?

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    and sue- the difference between children of 12 and 14 as far as all the things you mentioned is quite different than the 21 yo who comes on here wanting justification for having sex with 14yo. Please tell me how all your scientific other nature and virgin mary crap makes that ok!


    "Not only that, the ages of reproductive capability that mother nature chose on average are for the female 12 and 14 for the male. I’m sorry, this really means that they become fertile and reproductive. Getting the female ready in advance of the male seems that Mother Nature set it up that young females would mate with older males who would be more their physical, emotional and sexual equal."


    And - "True perverts and predators are rare. " ARE YOU INSANE??????? Do you ever watch to catch a predator? Do you really believe these 30-40-50 yo men who are coming to have sex with 15yo girls are just products of lusting after a stepsister because of divorce????? Well, in that case- why not let the 35 yo next door bang my 12yo. Afterall, he had a cute stepsister- I mean, he needs it. GOOD LORD!!!!

    If the things that happened in biblical times were right then we would still be crucifying people, feeding them to lions, and not having running water. Maybe, just maybe mother nature gave the urges to younger kids to help teach them to control themselves and allow them ample time to prepare for sex and adjust to their changing bodies, rather than just giving them the ability and thrusting the emotional and physical of sex on them at the same time.

    Yes, my daughters know when they are ready, they are to come to me and we will discuss it. I know I cannot stop them and I will teach them everything possible to protect themselves and care for themselves, but I will be darned if I will allow them to sleep with grown men

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    There is an undercurrent of illogic in this thread that I wish to address.

    There are those that post that if there is a physical ability to bear children, then that child is also emotionally ready to bear children.

    Assumed in this argument is the thought that, somehow, evolutionary biology "knows" when a person is ready to be a parent.

    Anyone that has ever raised a child knows this to be a false argument. The ability to do something and the ability to make proper judgements on that action are two distinct skill sets.

    For instance, it could also be argued that an 8 year old child is tall enough and physically strong enough to drive an automobile. We all understand, however, that a child of that age cannot make the correct judgements or understand the consequences of their actions enough to be put in command of a two ton chunk of metal and plastic.

    A child is also physically able from the age of 4 to pull the trigger on a handgun. However, we also know that putting a gun in the hands of such a child to be a very dangerous act.

    Do not muddy the issue of the age of consent with the biological ability to have sex. They are significantly different issues... and should not be linked.
    Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

    I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

    Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sue100 View Post
    turn to some history books and learn that up until the late 1800’s, early 1900’s, and even many there after including my mother in law who married at 15, females were quite commonly married by 14-15 years of age, and earlier. It is not known for sure but speculation is that the Virgin Mary was 14. Through the millenniums of human existence, delaying sex until the 20’s was rarely ever done - except for her.

    You need to understand, life expectancy in the late 1800 and 1900's was MUCH shorter and having children was much more dangerous the older you were, so it was more out of neccessity than anything.

    We now live longer allowing us to lengthen the childhood of our young people. No longer must they join the family in fields or the factory at age 8 or 9.

    With your logic, then, I assume since we allowed children to work in factories during the industrial revolution, it's ok now too? (Virgin Mary didn't have sex.)
    -----------------------------------------
    98% of the population is asleep. The other 2% are staring around in complete amazement, abject terror, or both.

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    Moburks,

    I would be skeptical of 6 years of age, although I have heard of 8. Just because she has become reproductive, that does not mean she is ready to have sex and will experience strong hormonal drives to do so. Many young people are not even at 18 or more.

    I actually had a co-worker express upset last week as he learned his 10 year old daughter had just done it. The boy was close in age to her so no room for charges. I asked him how old he was when he first admitted to 12. He admitted to 12.

    I would say that as her parent, you best keep a watch on her and maintain a good family doctor that can help advise you a long the way. I would say at 6 even more so than 16, you do not want her pregnant.

  13. #13

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    You need to understand, life expectancy in the late 1800 and 1900's was MUCH shorter and having children was much more dangerous the older you were, so it was more out of neccessity than anything.

    We now live longer allowing us to lengthen the childhood of our young people. No longer must they join the family in fields or the factory at age 8 or 9.

    With your logic, then, I assume since we allowed children to work in factories during the industrial revolution, it's ok now too? (Virgin Mary didn't have sex.)[/QUOTE]

    I think life expectancy was around 40 years of age for very long time. That's almost to the time mother nature gives women anyway to be female and reproductive. I do not think that drove necessity for childbirth at a young age. Women in those days began bearing children in teenage and continued to bear children. Not uncommon for a woman to have 10-15 children during her life span.

    The industrial revolution was actually a driver in delaying childbirth. A young man and woman could support a child in an agrarian system whereas our economic system leaves them pretty incapable during the teenage years. This is a very good reason for delaying childbirth. However, with the miracles of modern science and birth control, why would that mean that sex must be delayed? Plus I am not advocating the promotion of sex. I am simply stating that humans become sexual and begin having sex around 12/14 on average.

    "Lengthening childhood" is an interesting phrase. What is the point of doing that? Have you ever thought that trying to infantize teenagers may have something to do with the very high high school drop out rates in this country, and the alienation of the young people towards the older?

    I understand the Virgin Mary was a virgin. It is the symbolic meaning of her virginity as to why I used her as an example. Aren't all us women suppose to be like her?

  14. #14

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    Milspecgirl,

    There are 14 year olds who are more mature than 21 year olds. You cannot put a sticker stamp on that. This is why the government should get out of the sex business and let the parents do their jobs. All I see on these boards are guys and girls who have relationships and are trying to learn the ramifications if they have sex. If the guy is 21 and she is 14, and in a relationship with mutual desires, there is already plenty going on. If the 14 year old’s parent has been allowing them to date, then they have really already given their permission for sex because that is what the dating game is all about. If the parent is oblivious, than shame on the parent. If their daughter has sex in the midst of their neglect, they should not have right to blame the boy for their failings.

    Actually I would call you insane to sit and watch such garbage on TV and to believe that reflects the real world. It is melodrama produced to make money by playing on your emotions - sex and irrational fear. That is all. My favorite is America’s Most Wanted and poor Mr. Walsh whose son was killed by a pedophile. So sad. Except fact of the matter is they never found his son’s killer, and they only found a few pieces of the boys body. So how does Mr. Walsh know that a pedophile killed him or that his son was even sexually assaulted? Hey, some people will buy anything!

    FACTS are that true perverts and predators ARE rare. Personally I think 50 year old men chasing young girls is just absolutely gross and repulsive. But that does not make them perverts. General Douglas MacArther fell in love with a 15 year old Okinawan girl during the war. Are you calling him a pervert? I mean we are mammals. Age matching is not requirement to mating.

    The Romans crucified, feed Christians to the lions, but they did have running water. Christians used to stone women to death for having sex. I really do not see what is going on of late with Megan’s Law an improvement, but rather moral deterioration. Again we are slamming our young men and fathers of families on the internet and punishing them such that they cannot get jobs so to feed, cloth or shelter themselves. Murders are not treated so deplorably. At least in jail they get the basics to sustain life. In humane.

    Sex drives are there to achieve the biological imperative – reproduction. You can play whatever head game you wish but you do not base any of your opinions on intellect and fact.

    I would wager money that you are in for a major surprise when the time comes for your daughters to have sex. I hate to shatter your delusions but pursuing their own sexuality is part of their transition into adulthood. I have never ever heard of anyone asking their parents permission to have sex. It really is not a threesome event for mother to be in the middle of. I think it very likely with your expectations, that you will be the last to know.

  15. #15

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    The following is an example of what age of consent laws are about and how they are being prosecuted of late with all the hysteria. The case being interracial got Dixon support from many groups. His conviction was overturned by the Georgia Supreme Court. However, there are many more like him who are serving time due to the rath of a parent - nothing more and nothing less. It is how the laws work.

    Court weighs teenager's sentence
    Georgia case raises questions about mandatory minimum sentences

    Wednesday, January 21, 2004 Posted: 11:05 PM EST (0405 GMT)

    Marcus Dixon was convicted of child molestation and statutory rape, ending a promising future. CNN's Brian Cabell reports (January 21)
    premium content

    ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Attorneys for a high school football player convicted of having consensual sex with a fellow student told the Georgia Supreme Court on Wednesday that the teen's automatic 10-year sentence amounted to cruel and unusual punishment.

    Prosecutors insisted the mandatory prison term was exactly what state law intended for Marcus Dixon, who was convicted of aggravated child molestation and statutory rape. Dixon was 18 at the time; the girl was 15.

    Defense attorney David Balser said Dixon's sentence "so deviates from society's view of sexual conduct that it shocks the conscience." Unless the court overturns the case, any teenager who has sex could potentially face prison time, he said.

    Prosecutor John McClellan defended Georgia law, which classifies Dixon's crime as one of the state's "seven deadly sins" that come with a minimum decade-long sentence.

    "It is the job of the Legislature and not the courts to define crimes and their penalties," McClellan said.

    The high court issued no immediate decision but was expected to rule in the next few months.

    At the time of his arrest, Dixon was a senior football player with a 3.96 grade-point average and a scholarship to attend Vanderbilt University. Dixon's scholarship was later rescinded.

    Dixon was enrolled in a home-economics class with the 15-year-old girl. He said he arranged to visit her in a trailer containing classrooms, where she was working as a student custodian. She told school counselors about the incident, and they contacted police.

    Dozens of people packed the courtroom to hear Dixon's case, which has become controversial because he is black and the girl is white. Protesters have said Dixon would not have received such a long sentence if not for his race.

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    Sue100,

    I could not help but laugh at your ridiculous abuse of logic and science.

    You actually just posted that rape is ok, as it is just the scientific pursuit of life.

    You are a moron beyond belief. I hope YOU never procreate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sue100 View Post
    Moburks,

    I would be skeptical of 6 years of age, although I have heard of 8. Just because she has become reproductive, that does not mean she is ready to have sex and will experience strong hormonal drives to do so. Many young people are not even at 18 or more.

    I actually had a co-worker express upset last week as he learned his 10 year old daughter had just done it. The boy was close in age to her so no room for charges. I asked him how old he was when he first admitted to 12. He admitted to 12.

    I would say that as her parent, you best keep a watch on her and maintain a good family doctor that can help advise you a long the way. I would say at 6 even more so than 16, you do not want her pregnant.
    You can be skeptical all you'd like. My daughter WILL BE fully ready to have children by the age of 6. Its documented in all of the medical journals. So, explain, again your point about mother nature and its intention of reproductions...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sue100 View Post
    The following is an example of what age of consent laws are about and how they are being prosecuted of late with all the hysteria. The case being interracial got Dixon support from many groups. His conviction was overturned by the Georgia Supreme Court. However, there are many more like him who are serving time due to the rath of a parent - nothing more and nothing less. It is how the laws work.

    Court weighs teenager's sentence
    Georgia case raises questions about mandatory minimum sentences

    Wednesday, January 21, 2004 Posted: 11:05 PM EST (0405 GMT)

    Marcus Dixon was convicted of child molestation and statutory rape, ending a promising future. CNN's Brian Cabell reports (January 21)
    premium content

    ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Attorneys for a high school football player convicted of having consensual sex with a fellow student told the Georgia Supreme Court on Wednesday that the teen's automatic 10-year sentence amounted to cruel and unusual punishment.

    Prosecutors insisted the mandatory prison term was exactly what state law intended for Marcus Dixon, who was convicted of aggravated child molestation and statutory rape. Dixon was 18 at the time; the girl was 15.

    Defense attorney David Balser said Dixon's sentence "so deviates from society's view of sexual conduct that it shocks the conscience." Unless the court overturns the case, any teenager who has sex could potentially face prison time, he said.

    Prosecutor John McClellan defended Georgia law, which classifies Dixon's crime as one of the state's "seven deadly sins" that come with a minimum decade-long sentence.

    "It is the job of the Legislature and not the courts to define crimes and their penalties," McClellan said.

    The high court issued no immediate decision but was expected to rule in the next few months.

    At the time of his arrest, Dixon was a senior football player with a 3.96 grade-point average and a scholarship to attend Vanderbilt University. Dixon's scholarship was later rescinded.

    Dixon was enrolled in a home-economics class with the 15-year-old girl. He said he arranged to visit her in a trailer containing classrooms, where she was working as a student custodian. She told school counselors about the incident, and they contacted police.

    Dozens of people packed the courtroom to hear Dixon's case, which has become controversial because he is black and the girl is white. Protesters have said Dixon would not have received such a long sentence if not for his race.
    If you had bother to read more than the first article that Google gave you, you would have seen that his conviction was overturned.

    Not because it wasn't a good sentence, but because he was within the age cushion that is an affirmative defense.

    C'mon... challenge me.

    Oh, and before you lecture me about the parent's role in a child's sex life, maybe we should go back to your other thread where a man tried to rape your 12 year old daughter and you blamed her and felt sorry for him.
    Not everything that makes you mad, sad or uncomfortable is legally actionable.

    I am not now nor ever was an attorney.

    Any statements I make are based purely upon my personal experiences and research which may or may not be accurate in a court of law.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyjeff View Post
    If you had bother to read more than the first article that Google gave you, you would have seen that his conviction was overturned.

    Not because it wasn't a good sentence, but because he was within the age cushion that is an affirmative defense.

    C'mon... challenge me.

    Oh, and before you lecture me about the parent's role in a child's sex life, maybe we should go back to your other thread where a man tried to rape your 12 year old daughter and you blamed her and felt sorry for him.
    You guys are incredible how you repaint realities, change facts, and redefine people to suit yourselves. Whatever.

    I mentioned at another point Dixon's conviction was overturned. I would like to see your substantiation because what I understand, it was an issue of constitutionality and the law was subsequently changed in the state of Georgia.

    His case supports my point that the system is only destroying lives and forcing decent people into criminality. At the time of this charges, Dixon was a senior in high school - 18. Now you guys love to argue that a teenager cannot comprehend the ramifications of having sex so how do you argue justification to prosecuting Dixon?

    Now the guy had a 3.96 grade average, all kinds of honors, and a scholarship waiting for him to attend Vanderbilt. His was a situation of consensual sex. 50%+ of the girls in this one's age group are having sex by her age - means NORMAL behavior between the two. So he got 10 years in prison, lost scholarship, etc. Would be a registered sex offender when he came out leaving him little opportunity to support himself, and a prime candidate to have to resort to crime to survive.

    What benefit was gained to society? They created a criminal, destroyed this boys ability to be quite productive, and instead made him dependent on the state. That is to say, the state assumed his support - average cost of incarceration is $75,000 a year. At 10 years, that means the state obligated about $750,000 of the tax payers money to accomplish what? Stop young people from having sex which is absolutely insane and bizarre to think it is even possible. Again, we are talking about criminalizing the most normal human behavior conceivable.

    What next? Incarcerate fat people?

  20. #20
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    Just waiting on the response to the information that I provided about my daughter.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sue100 View Post
    What next? Incarcerate fat people?
    Are you fat?

  22. #22

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    As the father of a teenage daughter, I always find these threads interesting and informative. Although I have no intent to get into the debate about age of consent or when a person is physically or psychologically ready to have sex, I do find the need to respond to one thing that Sue100 has said.

    Sue, you stated that you felt that true perverts and predators were rare. This could not be further from the truth. Please visit the following web site and type in your address. What you will find is a map of men and women who live near you and are convicted pedophiles and sex offenders. These are not teenage boys who got caught up in the legal system; these are people who have preyed on children to satisfy their own needs. These men and women target children and young teenagers because they know they are not capable of making grown up decisions. They know they are easily manipulated and that they can persuade them to have sex by making them feel special and older. These are the people who rationalize sexual contact with minors by arguing that age has nothing to do with when a person is “ready” to have sex.

    http://www.familywatchdog.us

    As you look at their faces and read about their convictions, tell me that these people are misunderstood or victims of misguided prosecution. And as you look at the number of names that appear near where you live, tell me then how rare the true pervert or predator is.

  23. #23

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    Sukkotto,

    Your site tells me nothing. It is a scam and waste of time. In my state, there are two charges a person can get for ALL the various sex crimes. When you have specifics, you have a wee bit better idea if a person living close "might" be potentially dangerous. Then what you see in reality are all these males and the majority of their crimes were committed years ago, most were consensual sex situations among teenagers (their girlfriends at the time). They served their time and are still compling by registering. Is this the guy that is going to continue sex crimes? Heck no. I and the parents I know could care less about the 46 year old man who 30 years ago, had a hot girlfriend who was 12 (he being 16 at the time). Nor do I care about the males who went through a bitter divorce and their wife falsely accused him. Or the guy who got drunk one night and lost it with his girl friend. You cannot tell the difference from these sites. I am sorry but this is political snow balling by those crooked bunch of jokers in Washington!!

    It is the violent rapist and the sociopath that concerns us and those sites tell you nothing about them. And if there is one of those, it is highly UNLIKELY he is registered anyway. Cooley was not, nor that abomination in Idaho. If the police know him which they would from his conviction and registration, than why is he on the street in the first place if he potentially dangerous? What is the legal systems job really? Isn't it about protecting us from the most violent? Guys who intend on committing that type of crime, record or not, are not going to register. Get serious and get real. Use your brain.

    What really concerns us the most is the serial killer that has hit in our community periodically for over 20 years now. The police don't have a clue!! I live in a suburb community of a major metropolitan city. According to a famous serial killer authority who teaches at one of the universities, there are 18 serial killers currently active in the major city I am close to. I recently listened to a cop who spends his days in plain clothes, walking around hitting on the "Bros" for where he can buy some pot. If someone kindly tells him, that person gets busted for selling. 50% of the arrests in this country being made in this country are marijuana. You know - what if they put all that energy on those serial killers? Call a cop where you are robbed and then say thank you so much for the insurance report. Do you know what happened to all those juvenile pot heads in my state who got sent to the juvenile Department of Corrections over the last 10 years? They were routinely sexually assaulted by the staff from the head director on down the line!!

    I just lost two retrievers in that pet food scandal. You know the FDA NEVER inspects pet food plants. How many contaminated food products have made it to consumers of late?!! That poison is in our pork!! How many months did it take them to figure that out? Do they even inspect our food EVER? Do you have a clue how many drugs have been recalled the past 10 years because they are learned to be dangerous? We have major foreign policy problems. We have major economic debt. We have energy problems. We have so many REAL problems and those jokers throw all the attention on SEX predators, illegal aliens (like invaders from space), and "terrorists" while they stuff their pockets, send our jobs oversea, chase the teenyboppers around in Washington, and go visit the "Madam" when that teenybopper didn't give them any. Wake up!! You've been had.

    Our politicians do not care about FACTS. They do not listen to academicians, scientists, doctors, experts in various fields who study these issues. Pedophiles are rare, they are not violent but rather the opposite. They are easily cured. Do you know what the FBI counts as child solicitation? Two high school girls talking about their boyfriends and what they did. Any sentence that has sexual content goes into their numbers as child soliciation. It is all dramatized propaganda playing on everyone's fear so our heads are focused on other issues besides what those scoundrels are stuffing in their pockets.

    FACT: 95% of abducted children are runaways (most are running from abusive parents) or throwaways (parents kicked them out)

    FACT: From FBI statistics, 1 in 1 million children will be abducted and murdered, which computes to about 150 kids annually.

    FACT: The leading cause of death for children is car wrecks. In 2003, 2,136 children age 2-14 were killed by auto. 220,000 were injured.

    We have energy problems, we have traffic problems in our major cities, we have pollution problems, our infrastructure is old and falling to pieces. You know what other countries are doing around the world? Mass transit, super trains. What are we doing? Worrying about everyone's freaking sex life.

    You know what the FBI did back in the 1900's? They did not worry about the mafia or the international illegal drug smugglers. They tapped all our phones instead so they could see who was a Republican and who a democrat. They followed the politicians and gathered all the evidence on who they were having affairs with so Hoover then could blackmail them.

    What does the FBI do now? They are our National Sex Police, can't find Bin Laden because they are too busy snooping in our bedrooms getting their own rocks off. We have become a joke.

  24. #24
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    This is a clip from a site that studies child marriage in other countries:

    A Major Health Concern

    More girls in developing countries die from hemorrhage, obstructed labor, obstetric fistula,* and other pregnancy- and childbirth-related problems than from any other single cause of death.

    Girls 10-14 are five times more likely to die of these causes than women 20 to 24.

    Girls 15 to 19 are twice as likely to die. (United Nations, 1991)

    There are more horrible details about their percentage of domestic violence as well.

    http://www.icrw.org/photoessay/html/facts.htm

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyjeff View Post
    There is an undercurrent of illogic in this thread that I wish to address.
    ________________________________________
    There is an undercurrent of illogic in this thread that I wish to address.

    The illogic is yours. Let me help you out.

    First problem with yours is in defining child. You are using biology in regards to age, and you are using psychology in regards to emotional development. From both fields, if a female is of child bearing capability, the proper word is either adolescent or adult, not child. It is quite difficult to take a piece from one field, and a piece from another, ignore all the rest of the fields, interject a bunch of personal opinion, and then end with a logical argument that is near truth.

    As I previously stated, age of consent laws for hundreds of years, put the age at 12, the common average for transition from CHILD to adolescent. As the age was raised, the word CHILD was never removed from the law.

    Now a question? Do you believe a 12 year old is not capable of taking care of a younger sibling? Do you believe a 12 year old is not “emotional ready” to babysit? I certainly did when I was 12 – made lots of money doing it. I most certainly could change diapers, get that baby fed and to bed as it needed. I most certainly could bath it, dress it, ensure it stayed safe. I played with them, read to them. I actually was driving a car at 12 because my father knew I was responsible enough to that. (Note the word responsible). If a 12 year old cannot do those things, there is something wrong with the parents failing to teach her life skills.

    Now what do you mean by being emotionally ready to have a child? Do you mean her abilities to nurture and tend to the needs of the child, feed it? I mean are you saying a 12 year old does not comprehend danger? Do they not comprehend self preservation and the need for food, clothing, and shelter? Does that mean she has yet to develop capability for maternal instincts and protect the child as a mother would? I mean what would a 12 year not be capable of emotionally? Love? If you mean her ability to financially support the child is not there, that would not be “emotional”. If you mean her ability to comprehend future ramifications of actions due to inexperience, you again are not talking emotion but rather intelligence. What about those with high IQs?

    Now I do not advocate 12 year olds having children but fact is, they do. Always have and always will. I do not advocate 12 year olds having sex even. But there is a percentage who always have and always will. To say they are not capable is simply not true.

    I will also add that “emotionally ready” is a contemporary psychological concept used in our culture – more like urban legend stuff. It does not come from scientists, nor biologists. Psychology is not a science, it is observation, then conjecture and opinion. All you express is opinion not based on anything. This is why psychology departments are in the schools of art in our universities, and not in the schools of science. This is why insurance companies do not like paying for their services. You likely are ignorant to the fact that over the last three decades, the biologists have disproven most of the psychological theories. About all that is surviving are the cognitive psychologists and they are being integrated in with the biologists. To get degrees in psychology now, the universities are beginning to require students to take courses in biology and neurobiology. It is a matter of time and psychology as a field will no longer exist. There are now specialty fields of study in the schools of science for neurobiology – human behavior, how the mind really works and controls our actions. Some biologists are specializing in how hormones drive our behavior - which includes sexual behavior. E. O. Wilson who is considered one the most brilliant and top scientists in the world, many decades ago founded sociobiology – group behavior. Do you have a clue to the 21st century?

    Actually no one has stated that 12 year olds are ready emotionally to have children. Evolutionary biology has not been brought up and is not really applicable to any of this conversation. I doubt you know what that field is other than your uneducated preacher telling you it is anti-God and evil. Now anthropologists would be good to interject as they study human behavior in various cultures. That would expand awareness as to what humans are really capable of and not.

    What does proper judgment mean? Again, this is highly subjective. It is also a very broad generalization. Are you really stating that it is impossible for a 12 year old to make better decisions than anyone older than she? Even older by 5 or 10 or 20 years? I mean I know old people who cannot make good decisions. I also cannot help but question that a 12 year old is making life decisions every moment of the day whether you like it or not. She certainly is if she decides not to have sex and get pregnant don’t you think? Do you think she even capable of that?

    Biological ability to have sex is statement of physical condition that is not arguable. Age of consent has to do with personal opinions about laws based on no facts. You are right in that they are different. However, you are wrong that there is no link. My point has been that age of consent laws outlaw normal behavior.

    The problem with a state government putting a rubber stamp as to when a person is capable of making sexual decisions is that all young people mature at different rates and in different ways. Some 12 year olds are most certainly more mature than some 20 year olds regarding sex and child birth. There are women out there of all kinds of ages who have no business having children ever. The government just cannot rubber stamp such a thing. Nor can the government pick friends or lovers. A 21 year old boyfriend may be the best influence on that 16 year old possible. It should be the parents decision, not the governments if that child is a minor.

    Now to the biggest point of your illogical thinking. You argue and argue that teenagers should not be having sex, especially the younger they are as justification to these laws. But age of consent laws do NOT forbid teenagers from having sex. They forbid adults from sex with teenagers. The teenager can legally do it all they want with who ever they want to.

    If you think the government is the one who should be controlling your children’s sexual activities and preventing them from having sex, as opposed to you their parent, then why are you not screaming that the government make it illegal for teenagers to have sex? Why would you not scream that it is a parents responsibility to see to it that their teenager does have sex? Are they not responsible for all the rest their kids do? Truth be told, you do not want that responsibility, you want to project it onto the teenage boys.

    An 8 year old who was driving a car would be stopped by the police and his parents called and told to ensure they not do it again. If that child had an accident, the parent would be held responsible. A parent who put a gun in the hand of a child, would be arrested for child endangerment and held responsible for manslaughter if that child killed himself or someone. A parent is actually responsible legally for the actions of their offspring and what that child does – except in age of consent situations where angry daddies get to blame and punish his daughter’s partner. It is archaic thinking.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by moburkes View Post
    You can be skeptical all you'd like. My daughter WILL BE fully ready to have children by the age of 6. Its documented in all of the medical journals. So, explain, again your point about mother nature and its intention of reproductions...
    I don't think you finished your sentence. My skeptism resulted because I thought you were challenging me back. That is interesting about your daughter. I do not mean to intrude but I am curious of the doctor's opinions. Was there something else medically wrong that triggered this or do they say this is not that unusual, has happened before?

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by demartian View Post
    This is a clip from a site that studies child marriage in other countries: Research shows marriage is…Commonhttp://www.icrw.org/photoessay/html/facts.htm
    Thanks for the link - proves my point actually as to what is normal human
    behavior. Childbirth mortality is fairly high in the US as well, teenage births carry much greater risk here too. I certainly do not advocate teen pregnancy. I simply state that sex is normal for teenagers among humans and pregnancy goes with it if birth control is not used. This is true around the world in varying degrees.

    The US actually has the highest rates of teen pregnancy of the modernized countries, although we have lower rates of teen promiscuity. Only 8% of teen pregnancies involve age of consent situations. Studies blame US parents who do not deal with the fact that sex is a normal part of teenage, do not provide inadequate sex education, tend not to even talk about such things with teenagers, and do not provide access to birth control. European countries tend to be the opposite and thus have much less teen pregnancy. Europeans tend to find american attitudes about sex a bit bizarre. I do not think we can help save the rest of the world until we face and do something about these problems at home.

    There is a study available on the web by the Guttmacher Institute on our teen pregnancy problem. I am having trouble with my browser and cannot get a link right now. On page 10 of that report, it discusses a tendency of late among American parents to treat their teenagers as children, not as preadults, different attitude than parents decades ago. The report suggests this is a contributing factor to teen pregnancy. Interesting point especially from hearing so many on this board profess their teenagers are children and incapable of anything - especially personal responsibility.

    Regarding domestic violence, if you dig into the problem, contrary to the distortions of facts and mythical contemporary beliefs, women are more violent and physically abusive than men. Men do not report it to the police thus skewing data. Women libers trying to play "victim" do not acknowledge all the physical child abuse being committed by mothers in this country. Like males, it has a lot to do with stress.

    If you study the aoc situations more closely, the young girls who are getting into relationships with these older men are consistently coming from problematic homes - most report drug/alcohol problems by the parent. The politicians push the propaganda that the "sex predators" seek these out particularly but truth is, the girls seek them out. I can show you on myspace it happening all over the place. Older men offer hope of escape from their bad situations, they more likely have money, can buy them gifts - maybe even clothes, they offer adult affection when these girls are getting none at home, they offer protection from an abuser in the home, etc. 50% of children are growing up in single family homes. Single mothers are number one to be on poverty roles. Social services are deplorable and offer these kids worse than what they already have at home. Throwing all our young men in jail is not going to solve any of the problems - only create more. The parent blames the boy, is more likely to press charges, they have a scapegoat and excuse for their parental neglect. The girl in turn just seeks another guy - trying to fulfill her needs and survive.

    Somebody really care and really want to do something to help these girls?

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    From link:

    More than 51 million girls younger than 18 are already married. (ICRW, 2003) It’s estimated that in the next decade, 100 million more girls—or roughly 25,000 girls a day—will marry before they turn 18. (Population Council, 2003)
    Widespread

    Child marriage exists everywhere. But in some countries, the majority of girls marry before 18. These include: 82% in Niger | 75% in Bangladesh | 63% in Mali | 63% in Nepal | 57% in Ethiopia | 57% in India | 50% in Uganda. (DHS, 1996-2001)

    In Nepal, 7% of females are married before the age of 10 and 40% by age 15. (UNICEF, 2001)

    In Amhara, Ethiopia, 50% of girls are married before age 15. (Judith Bruce, 2003)

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by MomofBoys View Post
    Sue100,

    I could not help but laugh at your ridiculous abuse of logic and science.

    You actually just posted that rape is ok, as it is just the scientific pursuit of life.

    You are a moron beyond belief. I hope YOU never procreate.
    MomofBoys,

    Get a dictionary and learn proper use of words. Just because stupid uneducated politicians write laws and CHANGE definitions of words does not make it proper use of the word.

    Rape is forced sex, usually with violence, and is not equivalent to consensual sex which is the opposite.

    One does not have to have a high school diploma to comprehend this, nor be 18 years of age before they can think with minimal intelligence. Maybe you are in fact, the moron.

  29. #29
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    Suzy baby.....

    It is pretty clear that you are a pedophile.

    Are you a woman engaging in sexual acts with a 14 year old boy? Perhaps a man who gets his jollys at the playground?

    The only reason to justify such behavior and attempt to discredit those of us who actually ubderstand the law is if you are breaking it.

    I would implore those who do so to track Suzy cakes down (we all know it can be done). S/he is obviously a danger to society.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sue100 View Post
    Maybe you are in fact, the moron.
    Oh yes... this.

    It's pretty ballsy to comment on someone's use of the English language, and in the same post write something so gramatically incorrect. What's with the comma?

    You aren't just a pedophile, you're an idiot.

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