Saving marriage

[Mike Kulyk]

Hello All

I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been
married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of
the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try
to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests,
counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it..

The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,
and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodka
in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't know
who..

She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she was
inpatient before that.

We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first divorce
court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the drinking,
the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds. All
over her arms and legs are scars.

And I think she still does it.

She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with our
8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room.

I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the same).
And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is
spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious.

Any one have any ideas..

THANKS

Mike

[Tsam Nami]

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood

swings,

and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put

vodka

in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't

know

who.. She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she was inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first divorce court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the

drinking,

the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds. All over her arms and legs are scars. And I think she still does it. She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with

our

8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room. I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the

same).

And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious. Any one have any ideas..

Your wife appears very hurt, and hurting herself further.
I hope that you and she can find some way
to cope with this and recover from it.

You and she are already getting help
where I would suggest that you look for it.

What has turned this chronic bad situation urgent?
(What triggered the divorce?
Why did you choose to post now?)
How well are you coping with this?
--
Tsam

[Tsam Nami]

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood

swings,

and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put

vodka

in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't

know

who.. She has been thru rehab for 8.5 weeks and this was inpatient. And she was inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first divorce court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the

drinking,

the in-patients, the cutting. She picks at her skin until she bleeds. All over her arms and legs are scars. And I think she still does it. She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with

our

8 year old daughter. When there is a king size bed in the next room. I know she is sick. And I attend counseling, and she does to (not the

same).

And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA. But this is spinning out of control.. I take the marriage vows serious. Any one have any ideas..

Your wife appears very hurt, and hurting herself further.
I hope that you and she can find some way
to cope with this and recover from it.

You and she are already getting help
where I would suggest that you look for it.

What has turned this chronic bad situation urgent?
(What triggered the divorce?
Why did you choose to post now?)
How well are you coping with this?
--
Tsam

[nobody]

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood

swings,

and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put

vodka

in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't

know

who..

<snip>

Your wife is, what many people in AA call, a "dry drunk".
Outwardly she has stopped drinking and is doing all the things expected of
her, but
she has not embraced recovery.

Continue to go to Al-anon.

I take the marriage vows serious.

That´s very sweet and self-destructive of you. Shame that she doesn´t.

Any one have any ideas.. THANKS Mike

[nobody]

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

Hello All I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage. I have been married for 16 years on June 4.. My wife has been drinking for 13 years of the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to try to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood

swings,

and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put

vodka

in her mouth.. There seems to be a history of abuse by someone. I don't

know

who..

<snip>

Your wife is, what many people in AA call, a "dry drunk".
Outwardly she has stopped drinking and is doing all the things expected of
her, but
she has not embraced recovery.

Continue to go to Al-anon.

I take the marriage vows serious.

That´s very sweet and self-destructive of you. Shame that she doesn´t.

Any one have any ideas.. THANKS Mike

[Mike Kulyk]

She filed for divorce on Sept 28th

I thought that some way I could talk her out of this.

On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed.

I really didn't know that this group was around.

I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know
if she will continue to do so.

As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO I
was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public
assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and
pay the bills. SO last night she came home.

This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer on Thurs of
her drinking problem, hospital stays, cutting, drinking and driving with the
child in the car. THE whole story. We went into the judge with HER lawyer
and stated I wanted to save the family, stay married and for her to see the
correct DR. for her problems. She only sees a therapist. And this therapist
states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. WELL I don't think
so. She was drinking way before me.

I am coping poorly with all of this. Sleep is a real problem. I really don't
know if I got a job can I deal with the stresses of that and this. WELL I am
sure I can't. I did get a job on Dec 1.. Network Admin for a small company.
Well the stresses of the job and the home life were off the charts.. I
thought I would have a break down.. NO sleep, sick all the time. And the job
was a real sweat shop.. You were not allowed lunch breaks, you had to be
productive every hour every minute.. Well I fell flat on my face and was
fired on Feb 1.. I didn't work FAST enough. And I was making mistakes.. WHEW
I was happy to be out of there. The wrong job at that time for me..

Thanks

Mike
"Tsam Nami" <tsam-nami@tidal.wav> wrote in message
news:PQegc.14238$A_4.4332@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net...

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

of

the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to

try

to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,

vodka

know

was

inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first

divorce

court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the drinking,

All

over her arms and legs are scars. And I think she still does it. She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with our

same).

Your wife appears very hurt, and hurting herself further. I hope that you and she can find some way to cope with this and recover from it. You and she are already getting help where I would suggest that you look for it. What has turned this chronic bad situation urgent? (What triggered the divorce? Why did you choose to post now?) How well are you coping with this? -- Tsam

[Mike Kulyk]

She filed for divorce on Sept 28th

I thought that some way I could talk her out of this.

On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed.

I really didn't know that this group was around.

I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't know
if she will continue to do so.

As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO I
was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public
assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and
pay the bills. SO last night she came home.

This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer on Thurs of
her drinking problem, hospital stays, cutting, drinking and driving with the
child in the car. THE whole story. We went into the judge with HER lawyer
and stated I wanted to save the family, stay married and for her to see the
correct DR. for her problems. She only sees a therapist. And this therapist
states that this is my problem. I caused the drinking. WELL I don't think
so. She was drinking way before me.

I am coping poorly with all of this. Sleep is a real problem. I really don't
know if I got a job can I deal with the stresses of that and this. WELL I am
sure I can't. I did get a job on Dec 1.. Network Admin for a small company.
Well the stresses of the job and the home life were off the charts.. I
thought I would have a break down.. NO sleep, sick all the time. And the job
was a real sweat shop.. You were not allowed lunch breaks, you had to be
productive every hour every minute.. Well I fell flat on my face and was
fired on Feb 1.. I didn't work FAST enough. And I was making mistakes.. WHEW
I was happy to be out of there. The wrong job at that time for me..

Thanks

Mike
"Tsam Nami" <tsam-nami@tidal.wav> wrote in message
news:PQegc.14238$A_4.4332@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net...

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

of

the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to

try

to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,

vodka

know

was

inpatient before that. We live together but AS and have been roommates. We had our first

divorce

court date the other day. I stated to a substute lawyer about the drinking,

All

over her arms and legs are scars. And I think she still does it. She has not slept with me in over 2 years. SHE sleeps in a twin bed with our

same).

Your wife appears very hurt, and hurting herself further. I hope that you and she can find some way to cope with this and recover from it. You and she are already getting help where I would suggest that you look for it. What has turned this chronic bad situation urgent? (What triggered the divorce? Why did you choose to post now?) How well are you coping with this? -- Tsam

[Mike Kulyk]

YES I know about """DRY Drunks"""

She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case..

SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful..

I have NO job and I am stuck..

And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

Thanks

"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5s29a$kli$04$1@news.t-online.com...

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

of

the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to

try

to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,

vodka

know

<snip> Your wife is, what many people in AA call, a "dry drunk". Outwardly she has stopped drinking and is doing all the things expected of her, but she has not embraced recovery. Continue to go to Al-anon.

That´s very sweet and self-destructive of you. Shame that she doesn´t.

[Mike Kulyk]

YES I know about """DRY Drunks"""

She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case..

SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful..

I have NO job and I am stuck..

And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

Thanks

"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5s29a$kli$04$1@news.t-online.com...

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:8kegc.28299$_g4.2216780@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

of

the marriage. Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to

try

to save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests, counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it.. The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,

vodka

know

<snip> Your wife is, what many people in AA call, a "dry drunk". Outwardly she has stopped drinking and is doing all the things expected of her, but she has not embraced recovery. Continue to go to Al-anon.

That´s very sweet and self-destructive of you. Shame that she doesn´t.

[nobody]

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:V_ggc.32459$_g4.2724017@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

YES I know about """DRY Drunks""" She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case.. SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

I´m not sure what a waste case is, but for some reason, recovery is not
dependent on
external circumstances, but sorely from the individual.

When I recovered, I had neither AA, a councelor or a program, but a great
deal of will.
I did visit AA later to settle some issues, and I´m glad I did. And of
course, nobody deals
better with co-dependency issues than Al-Anon.

But at the end of the day, stopping the carussel is a personal decision, and
it appears
that your wife still hasn´t reached the rock bottom needed to have this mind
altering experience.
(Many people never do. They die, as pitiful and as miserable as they lived.)

I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful..

Self-destructive, soul-destructive, whatever.

I have NO job and I am stuck..

If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her?

And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

I wish I knew. It´s a very individual thing.
Ask for wisdom to accept the things you cannot change and the courage to
change the things
you can?

[nobody]

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:V_ggc.32459$_g4.2724017@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

YES I know about """DRY Drunks""" She is in program and has a counselor that is a waste case.. SO she can be a dry drunk with all of that going for her??

I´m not sure what a waste case is, but for some reason, recovery is not
dependent on
external circumstances, but sorely from the individual.

When I recovered, I had neither AA, a councelor or a program, but a great
deal of will.
I did visit AA later to settle some issues, and I´m glad I did. And of
course, nobody deals
better with co-dependency issues than Al-Anon.

But at the end of the day, stopping the carussel is a personal decision, and
it appears
that your wife still hasn´t reached the rock bottom needed to have this mind
altering experience.
(Many people never do. They die, as pitiful and as miserable as they lived.)

I don't really think its self destructive.. ITS painful..

Self-destructive, soul-destructive, whatever.

I have NO job and I am stuck..

If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her?

And I love my wife and I love my daughter.. What else can I do??

I wish I knew. It´s a very individual thing.
Ask for wisdom to accept the things you cannot change and the courage to
change the things
you can?

[Frank]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:

I may be completely incapable of sustaining a relationship, however I
am well aware of issues pertaining to alcoholism.

I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage.

Good to see you recognise it as an alcoholic marriage.

Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to tryto save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests,counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it..

If she doesn't want to save it, I don't see how much choice you have.

The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodkain her mouth.

She's been sober, and matters got worse? Sounds alcoholic to me. Is
she still sober, drinking on the sly, or drinking occasionally?

Alcohol seems to solve these problems. Remove the alcohol, replace it
with little else, and there's little solution.

And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA.

There's more to AA (and alanon) than attending meetings. She could be
attending just to shut you up. The success rate for people doing this
is not good. If she's to get well, she needs to recover for her own
benefit.

I take the marriage vows serious.

And you want her to do likewise?

If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her
biggest problem.

[Frank]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:

I may be completely incapable of sustaining a relationship, however I
am well aware of issues pertaining to alcoholism.

I am looking for a method of saving a alcoholic marriage.

Good to see you recognise it as an alcoholic marriage.

Well she has been drinking for 24 years. I would like to tryto save the marriage but everything I have tried has failed. Priests,counselors, family, friends anyone. She doesn't want to save it..

If she doesn't want to save it, I don't see how much choice you have.

The last two years of her being sober have been PURE hell. The mood swings,and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put vodkain her mouth.

She's been sober, and matters got worse? Sounds alcoholic to me. Is
she still sober, drinking on the sly, or drinking occasionally?

Alcohol seems to solve these problems. Remove the alcohol, replace it
with little else, and there's little solution.

And I have started al-alon, and she has been attending AA.

There's more to AA (and alanon) than attending meetings. She could be
attending just to shut you up. The success rate for people doing this
is not good. If she's to get well, she needs to recover for her own
benefit.

I take the marriage vows serious.

And you want her to do likewise?

If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her
biggest problem.

[Frank]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:

She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.

What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this
what she tells you the therapist said?

Sometimes therapists "appear" to agree with the opinions offered by
the patient, just to be seen to get them "on side". However, for an
unrecovered alcoholic talking about drinking problems that's perhaps
not a good tactic to use because it enables the denial.

She could be telling the therapist you're the problem (honestly
believing this to be true), seeing the therapist nod just once (to
imply they're still listening) and interpret that as a sign of
complete agreement.

Without recovery, many alcoholics have a need to believe almost
anything. This self-delusion is part of the illness.

However, if the therapist really is openly blaming you for her
drinking, I suspect the people in AA would suggest to your wife a
different therapist because such nonsense could affect her chances at
recovery from alcoholism, whether your relationship manages to stay or
go.

WELL I don't think so. She was drinking way before me.

Definitely. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an
abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution
to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a
solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be
whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety
for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.

[Frank]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:

She only sees a therapist. And this therapiststates that this is my problem. I caused the drinking.

What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this
what she tells you the therapist said?

Sometimes therapists "appear" to agree with the opinions offered by
the patient, just to be seen to get them "on side". However, for an
unrecovered alcoholic talking about drinking problems that's perhaps
not a good tactic to use because it enables the denial.

She could be telling the therapist you're the problem (honestly
believing this to be true), seeing the therapist nod just once (to
imply they're still listening) and interpret that as a sign of
complete agreement.

Without recovery, many alcoholics have a need to believe almost
anything. This self-delusion is part of the illness.

However, if the therapist really is openly blaming you for her
drinking, I suspect the people in AA would suggest to your wife a
different therapist because such nonsense could affect her chances at
recovery from alcoholism, whether your relationship manages to stay or
go.

WELL I don't think so. She was drinking way before me.

Definitely. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an
abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution
to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a
solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be
whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety
for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.

[Doug Anderson]

Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:

What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

Yeah, I have the same reaction. It is hard to imagine a competent
therapist saying this. Although I can imagine lots of things the
therapist might have said that your wife might have interpreted this
way.

[Doug Anderson]

Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes:

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:

What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

Yeah, I have the same reaction. It is hard to imagine a competent
therapist saying this. Although I can imagine lots of things the
therapist might have said that your wife might have interpreted this
way.

[Mike Kulyk]

I am glad you found recovery.

Well I guess she didn't hit rock bottom. I was always there with a big
pillow.

Thanks.
"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5s9bh$md0$02$1@news.t-online.com...

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:V_ggc.32459$_g4.2724017@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

I´m not sure what a waste case is, but for some reason, recovery is not dependent on external circumstances, but sorely from the individual. When I recovered, I had neither AA, a councelor or a program, but a great deal of will. I did visit AA later to settle some issues, and I´m glad I did. And of course, nobody deals better with co-dependency issues than Al-Anon. But at the end of the day, stopping the carussel is a personal decision,

and

it appears that your wife still hasn´t reached the rock bottom needed to have this

mind

altering experience. (Many people never do. They die, as pitiful and as miserable as they

lived.)

Self-destructive, soul-destructive, whatever.

If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her?

YES.. For better for worst, for richer for poorer and in sickness and in
health.. Till death

This is who I am. And I hope she would do the same for me..

I wish I knew. It´s a very individual thing. Ask for wisdom to accept the things you cannot change and the courage to change the things you can?

[Mike Kulyk]

I am glad you found recovery.

Well I guess she didn't hit rock bottom. I was always there with a big
pillow.

Thanks.
"nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:c5s9bh$md0$02$1@news.t-online.com...

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message news:V_ggc.32459$_g4.2724017@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

I´m not sure what a waste case is, but for some reason, recovery is not dependent on external circumstances, but sorely from the individual. When I recovered, I had neither AA, a councelor or a program, but a great deal of will. I did visit AA later to settle some issues, and I´m glad I did. And of course, nobody deals better with co-dependency issues than Al-Anon. But at the end of the day, stopping the carussel is a personal decision,

and

it appears that your wife still hasn´t reached the rock bottom needed to have this

mind

altering experience. (Many people never do. They die, as pitiful and as miserable as they

lived.)

Self-destructive, soul-destructive, whatever.

If you had 1.000.000$ would you still stay with her?

YES.. For better for worst, for richer for poorer and in sickness and in
health.. Till death

This is who I am. And I hope she would do the same for me..

I wish I knew. It´s a very individual thing. Ask for wisdom to accept the things you cannot change and the courage to change the things you can?

[Mike Kulyk]

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news.teranew s.com...

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:

YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with the
child in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I was
not able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go..

What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem

Sometimes therapists "appear" to agree with the opinions offered by the patient, just to be seen to get them "on side". However, for an unrecovered alcoholic talking about drinking problems that's perhaps not a good tactic to use because it enables the denial. She could be telling the therapist you're the problem (honestly believing this to be true), seeing the therapist nod just once (to imply they're still listening) and interpret that as a sign of complete agreement.

IT was verbal

Without recovery, many alcoholics have a need to believe almost anything. This self-delusion is part of the illness. However, if the therapist really is openly blaming you for her drinking, I suspect the people in AA would suggest to your wife a different therapist because such nonsense could affect her chances at recovery from alcoholism, whether your relationship manages to stay or go.

Definitely. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.

I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at

[Mike Kulyk]

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news.teranew s.com...

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:58:36 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:

YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with the
child in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I was
not able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go..

What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?

I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem

Sometimes therapists "appear" to agree with the opinions offered by the patient, just to be seen to get them "on side". However, for an unrecovered alcoholic talking about drinking problems that's perhaps not a good tactic to use because it enables the denial. She could be telling the therapist you're the problem (honestly believing this to be true), seeing the therapist nod just once (to imply they're still listening) and interpret that as a sign of complete agreement.

IT was verbal

Without recovery, many alcoholics have a need to believe almost anything. This self-delusion is part of the illness. However, if the therapist really is openly blaming you for her drinking, I suspect the people in AA would suggest to your wife a different therapist because such nonsense could affect her chances at recovery from alcoholism, whether your relationship manages to stay or go.

Definitely. If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.

I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at

[Mike Kulyk]

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelogremovethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uligc.160801$oR5.9228@pd7tw3no...

Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes:

I am the CO-alcoholic.. SO I am the problem.. My stresses over all of the..
The HELL I have been thru.. Raising a daugher while MOM sat in rehab
thinking of resentments of me.. I watched our 6 yr old cry herself to sleep
when MOM was away. And to this day she is sticks to MOM like GLUE.. So
insacure about MOM going away.

Her MO was drinking and driving with the child in the car.. I heard this
from our daugher at 4 yrs old.. MOM drives with the spicey drink and throws
the bottle out the window.. Coming home blind.. YES I took the car away..
They are alive because I did..

Yeah, I have the same reaction. It is hard to imagine a competent therapist saying this. Although I can imagine lots of things the therapist might have said that your wife might have interpreted this way.

I was thrown out of her office because I would NOT buy the load she was
selling me.. ITS me..

NO.. I didn't cause this, I can't cure it, and can't control it..

[Mike Kulyk]

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelogremovethis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uligc.160801$oR5.9228@pd7tw3no...

Frank <no-email@mungledmail.corn> writes:

I am the CO-alcoholic.. SO I am the problem.. My stresses over all of the..
The HELL I have been thru.. Raising a daugher while MOM sat in rehab
thinking of resentments of me.. I watched our 6 yr old cry herself to sleep
when MOM was away. And to this day she is sticks to MOM like GLUE.. So
insacure about MOM going away.

Her MO was drinking and driving with the child in the car.. I heard this
from our daugher at 4 yrs old.. MOM drives with the spicey drink and throws
the bottle out the window.. Coming home blind.. YES I took the car away..
They are alive because I did..

Yeah, I have the same reaction. It is hard to imagine a competent therapist saying this. Although I can imagine lots of things the therapist might have said that your wife might have interpreted this way.

I was thrown out of her office because I would NOT buy the load she was
selling me.. ITS me..

NO.. I didn't cause this, I can't cure it, and can't control it..

[Frank]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:00:53 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in messagenews:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news. teranews.com...

YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with thechild in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I wasnot able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go..

Ah, you "enabled" the drinking. That's very different from saying you
"caused" it.

What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem

Anyone who gets close to an alcoholic can become a part of the
alcoholic's problem, simply because alcoholics tend to have difficulty
relating to other people.

A proportion of people can "enable" the alcoholic, by doing or not
doing stuff "right". For example, if an alcoholic comes home in
blackout and throws up all over the bathroom floor, it's not always
helpful for them to wake up in a fluffy bed the next morning and walk
into a freshly-cleaned bathroom. The nasty looks the spouse then
gives become a question "what's your problem?"

That "enabling" is effectively enabling the alcoholic not to reach a
point of "no return". It's different to being the cause of the
problem.

If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at

Whether you drink or not doesn't really matter to her alcoholism. I'm
saying you may have perceived her drinking as a solution for her
problems.

See how your own thinking could be skewed by all this? That's where
al-anon comes in for you, whether she quits or not, or whether she
stays or not.

[Frank]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:00:53 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net>
wrote:

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in messagenews:c68e5e4ae51607ef3a630fbbff96d980@news. teranews.com...

YES.. SHE told me to my face.. I am the cause.. I didn't leave with thechild in the height of the out of control drinking. SO I enabled.. BUT I wasnot able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go..

Ah, you "enabled" the drinking. That's very different from saying you
"caused" it.

What the??? Are you sure the therapist actually says this, or is this what she tells you the therapist said?I am the CO-alcoholic.. I am the problem

Anyone who gets close to an alcoholic can become a part of the
alcoholic's problem, simply because alcoholics tend to have difficulty
relating to other people.

A proportion of people can "enable" the alcoholic, by doing or not
doing stuff "right". For example, if an alcoholic comes home in
blackout and throws up all over the bathroom floor, it's not always
helpful for them to wake up in a fluffy bed the next morning and walk
into a freshly-cleaned bathroom. The nasty looks the spouse then
gives become a question "what's your problem?"

That "enabling" is effectively enabling the alcoholic not to reach a
point of "no return". It's different to being the cause of the
problem.

If she's genuinely alcoholic, rather than simply an abuser, the drinking is nobody's problem - it's a perceived solution to a problem few seem to understand. You may have perceived it as a solution too, considering how much more relaxed she can appear to be whilst drinking... "have a drink, m'love". Without recovery, sobriety for an alcoholic can be sheer hell.I don't drink.. SO I see.. This is where she is at

Whether you drink or not doesn't really matter to her alcoholism. I'm
saying you may have perceived her drinking as a solution for her
problems.

See how your own thinking could be skewed by all this? That's where
al-anon comes in for you, whether she quits or not, or whether she
stays or not.

[Mike Kulyk]

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:16c0322391e65cec5c4803cd3430f08c@news.teranew s.com...

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: I may be completely incapable of sustaining a relationship, however I am well aware of issues pertaining to alcoholism.

Good to see you recognise it as an alcoholic marriage.

If she doesn't want to save it, I don't see how much choice you have.

Well there has to be a way.. I can't just give up on the family and loose my
daugher.. I don't want to be a P/T father.. Every weekend between Girl
Scouts and other social things she does.. I don't deserve that..

swings,

and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put

vodka

in her mouth. She's been sober, and matters got worse? Sounds alcoholic to me. Is she still sober, drinking on the sly, or drinking occasionally?

YES she could.. And maybe she is

Alcohol seems to solve these problems. Remove the alcohol, replace it with little else, and there's little solution.

There's more to AA (and alanon) than attending meetings. She could be attending just to shut you up. The success rate for people doing this is not good. If she's to get well, she needs to recover for her own benefit.

She has been attending for 8 years.. And YES you are right

And you want her to do likewise?

YES.. it would be nice

If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her biggest problem.

WHAT is??

[Mike Kulyk]

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:16c0322391e65cec5c4803cd3430f08c@news.teranew s.com...

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:03:48 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote: I may be completely incapable of sustaining a relationship, however I am well aware of issues pertaining to alcoholism.

Good to see you recognise it as an alcoholic marriage.

If she doesn't want to save it, I don't see how much choice you have.

Well there has to be a way.. I can't just give up on the family and loose my
daugher.. I don't want to be a P/T father.. Every weekend between Girl
Scouts and other social things she does.. I don't deserve that..

swings,

and the name calling, this is one unhappy women. Because she can't put

vodka

in her mouth. She's been sober, and matters got worse? Sounds alcoholic to me. Is she still sober, drinking on the sly, or drinking occasionally?

YES she could.. And maybe she is

Alcohol seems to solve these problems. Remove the alcohol, replace it with little else, and there's little solution.

There's more to AA (and alanon) than attending meetings. She could be attending just to shut you up. The success rate for people doing this is not good. If she's to get well, she needs to recover for her own benefit.

She has been attending for 8 years.. And YES you are right

And you want her to do likewise?

YES.. it would be nice

If she's alcoholic, saving a job or a marriage may not really be her biggest problem.

WHAT is??

[Joy]

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live, but I
think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses
insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final. You
might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a minimum,
they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been
offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the insurance.
Do you have any documentation?

I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't

know

if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO

I

was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer

What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does the sub
stand for?

[Joy]

"Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:M%fgc.31173$_g4.2522481@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...

On Sept 28 was the day I was laid off of my job to. I am unemployed. I really didn't know that this group was around. I have NO medical insurance either. She took me off the family plan.

She may not have the right to do this. I don't know where you live, but I
think in a lot of places one spouse cannot just drop the other spouses
insurance until the divorce is final. Not just filed - but final. You
might want to check with the benefits administrator yourself. At a minimum,
they are required to offer you COBRA coverage, so if you haven't been
offered this, then maybe you haven't really been taken off the insurance.
Do you have any documentation?

I see a counselor. BUT my wife has been paying for it in cash. I don't

know

if she will continue to do so. As of yesterday she was going to leave the house and NOT pay the bills. SO

I

was going to be come homeless. WELL so to speak. I am applying for public assistance. JUST in case. I think the lawyers told her she has to stay and pay the bills. SO last night she came home. This BILL paying problem happened because I told the SUB lawyer

What is a sub lawyer? Well, I know what a lawyer is, but what does the sub
stand for?

[Mike Kulyk]

"Frank" <no-email@mungledmail.corn> wrote in message
news:27f0f089bba368eb124ab4fb0c95460c@news.teranew s.com...

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:00:53 GMT, "Mike Kulyk" <mkulyk@optonline.net> wrote:

was

not able to leave.. Again NO money and NO place to go.. Ah, you "enabled" the drinking. That's very different from saying you "caused" it.

Anyone who gets close to an alcoholic can become a part of the alcoholic's problem, simply because alcoholics tend to have difficulty relating to other people. A proportion of people can "enable" the alcoholic, by doing or not doing stuff "right". For example, if an alcoholic comes home in blackout and throws up all over the bathroom floor, it's not always helpful for them to wake up in a fluffy bed the next morning and walk into a freshly-cleaned bathroom. The nasty looks the spouse then gives become a question "what's your problem?" That "enabling" is effectively enabling the alcoholic not to reach a point of "no return". It's different to being the cause of the problem.

Whether you drink or not doesn't really matter to her alcoholism. I'm saying you may have perceived her drinking as a solution for her problems.

NO I don't think that her drinking as a solution for her problems.

BUT maybe I truly don't understand..

Explain

See how your own thinking could be skewed by all this? That's where al-anon comes in for you, whether she quits or not, or whether she stays or not.