Anyone happy about divorce?

[Brian]

I know this is the "marriage" newsgroup and all. Hey, if there were
ever a more bitter and angry group of people worse then those found
here, it would be them who dwell on all.support.divorce so I don't
even bother going there. =) Really, I posed some questions there once
and nearly got my head handed to me. I know there must be some
divorcees on here and what I'm asking is this. So many people on this
group seem to try to steer you away from divorce and I suppose that is
justifiable. But for those of you who have gone the route of the big
"D" word, were there any regrets? I look at it like this. I work in
a place where people threaten to leave all the time. They complain
and complain and most of them never go. But those that do, and
resurface later, well, not one has ever regretted leaving. Any
thoughts?

--Brian

[Doug Anderson]

Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> writes:

I know this is the "marriage" newsgroup and all. Hey, if there were ever a more bitter and angry group of people worse then those found here, it would be them who dwell on all.support.divorce so I don't even bother going there. =) Really, I posed some questions there once and nearly got my head handed to me. I know there must be some divorcees on here and what I'm asking is this. So many people on this group seem to try to steer you away from divorce and I suppose that is justifiable. But for those of you who have gone the route of the big "D" word, were there any regrets? I look at it like this. I work in a place where people threaten to leave all the time. They complain and complain and most of them never go. But those that do, and resurface later, well, not one has ever regretted leaving. Any thoughts?

I've not divorced, but I've noticed that a rather high percentage of
the sensible regulars here have been divorced. JWB, jen (shinypenny),
Emma Anne and Sheila come to mind right off.

I think part of the tendency to steer people away from divorce comes
from the presumption that someone here is here to try to keep their
marriage working or make it work better. (Though there are obviously
some who find the company so good here that they can't leave.)

And also that getting divorced won't actually make you a happier
person unless you can figure out what you did to get yourself into
that situation in the first place, and how you are going to avoid
doing the same thing in the future!

[Bill in Co.]

Doug Anderson wrote:

Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> writes:

I've not divorced, but I've noticed that a rather high percentage of the sensible regulars here have been divorced. JWB, jen (shinypenny), Emma Anne and Sheila come to mind right off.

I don't think any of the above people had a family consisting of several
children and a baby, though, did they? So - what about the kids, who would
be effectively abandoned?

[Doug Anderson]

"Bill in Co." <ornery@earthlink.net> writes:

Doug Anderson wrote:

I don't think any of the above people had a family consisting of several children and a baby, though, did they? So - what about the kids, who would be effectively abandoned?

You know what Bill:

a) Brian doesn't have "several children and a baby." (He has _a_
child and a baby.)

b) Sheila got divorced with two young children. I don't know about
jen and E.A.

c) Stick your snotty attitude about Brian where it belongs, and stop
blaming him for the fact that your marriage is over.

[Tara D]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:55:46 GMT, Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com>
wrote:

But for those of you who have gone the route of the big"D" word, were there any regrets?

Sure, like why I didn't do it sooner. But in all seriousness, it was
still a pretty traumatic event. Not so much the divorce itself, but
the year in separation leading up to final event (denial, blame,
guilt, etc).

And it's not all roses and sunshine after the fact. Eight years
later, I'm still pretty much jaded towards marriage. Luckily I've
found a guy who understands that there is more to being committed than
a piece of paper.

But it's part of my past, and part of what makes me who I am today.
So no regrets.

Tara

[JWB]

"Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:08jlrvg0qrrogdfu2sd04gfq6la8se1el3@4ax.com...

I know this is the "marriage" newsgroup and all. Hey, if there were ever a more bitter and angry group of people worse then those found here, it would be them who dwell on all.support.divorce so I don't even bother going there. =) Really, I posed some questions there once and nearly got my head handed to me. I know there must be some divorcees on here and what I'm asking is this. So many people on this group seem to try to steer you away from divorce and I suppose that is justifiable. But for those of you who have gone the route of the big "D" word, were there any regrets? I look at it like this. I work in a place where people threaten to leave all the time. They complain and complain and most of them never go. But those that do, and resurface later, well, not one has ever regretted leaving. Any thoughts?

Brian,

I was very much like you, minus the children (she had a child - not the same
thing). Divorce was a great thing for me (and for her). I got my life back,
and was ready to date the next day

However, with your kids, it's bound to be a FAR different experience. I
walked away, and saw my ex exactly one time since I left the apartment. I
have no weekly payments. My wife doesn't have to deal with my ex in our
lives. I don't have to support two households.

Plus, I don't have any kids to miss.

Can you be happier with all of the above than you are right now?

[Larry Kessler]

Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote:

I know this is the "marriage" newsgroup and all. Hey, if there wereever a more bitter and angry group of people worse then those foundhere, it would be them who dwell on all.support.divorce so I don'teven bother going there. =) Really, I posed some questions there onceand nearly got my head handed to me. I know there must be somedivorcees on here and what I'm asking is this. So many people on thisgroup seem to try to steer you away from divorce and I suppose that isjustifiable. But for those of you who have gone the route of the big"D" word, were there any regrets? I look at it like this. I work ina place where people threaten to leave all the time. They complainand complain and most of them never go. But those that do, andresurface later, well, not one has ever regretted leaving. Anythoughts?

I'm extremely happy that my wife divorced her first husband.

[Amy Lou]

Im very happy I divorced my first husband. My child (aged 2 at the time) is
now 16, and extremely well adjusted. I remarried and had 2 more children and
my husband has 2 children from his first marriage too. It hasn't been a bed
of roses but its all been extremely worth it.

Amy

[Bill in Co.]

Doug Anderson wrote:

"Bill in Co." <ornery@earthlink.net> writes:

You know what Bill: a) Brian doesn't have "several children and a baby." (He has _a_ child and a baby.)

Oh gee, I guess that justifies it, then. We're "only" talking about a child
and a baby. I'm sorry I missed that, and I stand corrected.

b) Sheila got divorced with two young children. I don't know about jen and E.A. c) Stick your snotty attitude about Brian where it belongs, and stop blaming him for the fact that your marriage is over.

I'm not. And I don't see how your projection enters into this, either.

[Doug Anderson]

"Bill in Co." <ornery@earthlink.net> writes:

I'm not. And I don't see how your projection enters into this, either.

Ah. We learned a new word today. You might try to find out what it means.

[Bill in Co.]

Doug Anderson wrote:

"Bill in Co." <ornery@earthlink.net> writes:

Ah. We learned a new word today. You might try to find out what it means.

I'm not projecting here, Doug. YOU were the one that said it, and Ellie just
picked up on it - and it seemed perfectly logical, based on what she said about
what you had said.

[Doug Anderson]

"Bill in Co." <ornery@earthlink.net> writes:

Doug Anderson wrote:

I'm not projecting here, Doug. YOU were the one that said it, and Ellie just picked up on it - and it seemed perfectly logical, based on what she said about what you had said.

You're in the wrong thread.

If you were in the correct thread, find "it" and where I said "it."
Oh, I forgot. You don't "do" google.

[Shashay Doofray]

"Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:08jlrvg0qrrogdfu2sd04gfq6la8se1el3@4ax.com...

I know this is the "marriage" newsgroup and all. Hey, if there were ever a more bitter and angry group of people worse then those found here, it would be them who dwell on all.support.divorce so I don't even bother going there. =) Really, I posed some questions there once and nearly got my head handed to me. I know there must be some divorcees on here and what I'm asking is this. So many people on this group seem to try to steer you away from divorce and I suppose that is justifiable. But for those of you who have gone the route of the big "D" word, were there any regrets? I look at it like this. I work in a place where people threaten to leave all the time. They complain and complain and most of them never go. But those that do, and resurface later, well, not one has ever regretted leaving. Any thoughts? --Brian

Having been divorced twice I can say that neither time was I "happy" about
it, nor did I regret my decision. In both cases we simply came to the
mutual decision that we would both be happier if we went our separate ways.
The way I look at it is that in both cases, the experiences I learned while
married were invaluable to me in my current situation - they prepared me to
be the person and the wife I am today.

No regrets here.

SD

[Ignoramus18270]

In article <08jlrvg0qrrogdfu2sd04gfq6la8se1el3@4ax.com>, Brian wrote:

I know this is the "marriage" newsgroup and all. Hey, if there were ever a more bitter and angry group of people worse then those found here, it would be them who dwell on all.support.divorce so I don't even bother going there. =)

actually, alt.support.divorce is not a bad newsgroup at all.

I started reading it 2 years before I got married and it is definitely
a source of wisdom.

Really, I posed some questions there once and nearly got my head handed to me. I know there must be some divorcees on here and what I'm asking is this. So many people on this group seem to try to steer you away from divorce and I suppose that is justifiable. But for those of you who have gone the route of the big "D" word, were there any regrets? I look at it like this. I work in a place where people threaten to leave all the time. They complain and complain and most of them never go. But those that do, and resurface later, well, not one has ever regretted leaving. Any thoughts?

Sometimes divorce is justifiable, sometimes it is not. The question
is, is it warranted in your situation. When you have 2 kids, their
interests should play a huge role.

i

[WhansaMi]

>> >> I know this is the "marriage" newsgroup and all. Hey, if there were

> ever a more bitter and angry group of people worse then those found> here, it would be them who dwell on all.support.divorce so I don't> even bother going there. =) Really, I posed some questions there once> and nearly got my head handed to me. I know there must be some> divorcees on here and what I'm asking is this. So many people on this> group seem to try to steer you away from divorce and I suppose that is> justifiable. But for those of you who have gone the route of the big> "D" word, were there any regrets? I look at it like this. I work in> a place where people threaten to leave all the time. They complain> and complain and most of them never go. But those that do, and> resurface later, well, not one has ever regretted leaving. Any> thoughts? I've not divorced, but I've noticed that a rather high percentage of the sensible regulars here have been divorced. JWB, jen (shinypenny), Emma Anne and Sheila come to mind right off. I don't think any of the above people had a family consisting of several children and a baby, though, did they? So - what about the kids, whowould

You know what Bill:a) Brian doesn't have "several children and a baby." (He has _a_ child and a baby.)b) Sheila got divorced with two young children. I don't know about jen and E.A.

Did someone call me? :-)

Brian, I don't have enough time this morning to write everything I'm thinking,
but wanted to at least touch bases here:

I have to look at my divorce from two different perspectives: mine,
personally, and the effect it had on my children. From a totally personal
perspective, my divorce was one of the top ten best things I could do for
myself. Seriously. I've not given all the details of my marriage (and if
you'd like to know more, I'd prefer that you e-mail me, rather than discussing
it on here) but suffice it to say that I might not be alive today if I'd
remained married to my ex. So, yes, from a personal perspective, the divorce
was definitely positive.

OTOH, my kids were school-age when I divorced. That wasn't by accident. I
strongly felt that those first five or six years are very important to their
character and personality development. I felt it was *so* important for them
to have two parents, who were both there, instead of each one trying to deal
with being a single parent (and the concomitant stretching of all resources --
money, time, energy, emotional reserves). I did everything I could to stay
during this very vulnerable time, because, (1) I can tell you as a woman who
stayed at home for the first 6 years, and then went to work, I was a *better*
parent then, than I was as a single parent. I had more patience, I laughed
more, more of my time with my kids was spent in "quality" activities, rather
than "drive here, go there, get this done" stuff. And (2) the kids really,
really benefitted from having both parents readily available to them during
this time.

This doesn't even address the logistical issues of spending so much of the time
going back and forth between houses and of not having *a* space where all of
their stuff is.

More subtly, but probably most importantly, there is the emotional impact of
losing their intact home. A couple of years ago, my son seemed to be brooding
about something. I asked what was going on. He sort of sighed and said, "I
dunno. It's just kind of weird to realize that your parents... well, they
don't really like each other." He's not particularly verbal about his
feelings, but I could tell this really bothered him. My ex and I have worked
through most of our issues, and 95% of the time our interactions are quite
friendly --laughing, and joking around and whatnot. But... I'm sure he wishes
we'd never divorced.

So, as a mother (and to the degree that my own self-concept comes from my
adequacy as a mother....) I have great regrets about getting divorced. I hurt
my kids. I don't feel that I should hide from that. I don't buy that whole
thing that "well, it is better than they see the affectionate, more positive
relationship you have with your DH than the relationship you had with your
ex". No, I don't believe that-- *they* would have been better off if we had
been able to carry on the outwardly cordial relationship that my ex and I had.
They were not privvy to the problems in my marriage; from *their* perspective,
they had a really great home. I failed them.

I've got to go to work.

Sheila

[Michael A. Ball]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:55:46 GMT, Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote:

I know this is the "marriage" newsgroup and all. Hey, if there wereever a more bitter and angry group of people worse then those foundhere, it would be them who dwell on all.support.divorce so I don'teven bother going there.[...] So many people on thisgroup seem to try to steer you away from divorce and I suppose that isjustifiable. But for those of you who have gone the route of the big"D" word, were there any regrets? [...]

LOL! You almost had your head handed to you here--and it could happen in any
news group. Because this is alt.support.marriage, it's not surprising to find
people trying to help others mend and/or maintain their marriage. It's also a
pretty good place for help in determining the condition of a marriage and
options available.

I certainly don't see the people here as particularly "bitter and angry," but
that is a logical expectation in alt.support.divorce. You should have
anticipated the misplaced aggression. You'll save your self a lot of grief by
learning to consider the source.

As a romantic, as an old-fashioned person, I am never 100.00% happy with any
divorce. I am very happy/relieved to see many of them, but I'd rather see them
have storybook endings.

Michael
A day without recoil is like a day without sunshine!

[Tony Miller]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 05:24:09 GMT, Bill in Co. <ornery@earthlink.net> wrote:

Doug Anderson wrote:

Oh gee, I guess that justifies it, then. We're "only" talking about a child and a baby. I'm sorry I missed that, and I stand corrected.

I'm not. And I don't see how your projection enters into this, either.

Bill, get some help with your Brian obsession, please.

-Tony

[Chrys]

"Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:08jlrvg0qrrogdfu2sd04gfq6la8se1el3@4ax.com...

I know this is the "marriage" newsgroup and all. Hey, if there were ever a more bitter and angry group of people worse then those found here, it would be them who dwell on all.support.divorce so I don't even bother going there. =) Really, I posed some questions there once and nearly got my head handed to me. I know there must be some divorcees on here and what I'm asking is this. So many people on this group seem to try to steer you away from divorce and I suppose that is justifiable. But for those of you who have gone the route of the big "D" word, were there any regrets? I look at it like this. I work in a place where people threaten to leave all the time. They complain and complain and most of them never go. But those that do, and resurface later, well, not one has ever regretted leaving. Any thoughts?

I was happy that I got divorced, but it was a much different situation
that you're in. My husband had become a total beast with no redeeming
qualities and we had no children, no debts, and no shared assets. It was
easy to walk away and never have to see him again. This is not your
situation at all. Once you had children together, you and your wife are
committed to having to often deal with each other, like it or not, for the
next 18 years. You can certainly get away from living under the same
roof, but there are going to be a lot of costs involved and that's much
different than the situation of people leaving a job.

I know you don't like alt.support.divorce, but consider that the people
there were much like you are now before they got their divorces. There's
a reason they are so bitter now. Read what the men go through after a
divorce with small children, how much they miss their kids. You will have
a steep price to pay if you divorce your wife. You've talked about
enjoying the time you spend with your kids. Are you ready to give that
up? You won't be seeing them nearly so often, but you will be giving your
wife most likely at least 1/3 of your income to support your children and
still have to pay for your own new household. You may also end up paying
some additional money to support your wife for some period of time.

What you should really be asking in this group is if there are any here
who came close to divorce, worked things out, and now are extremely
relieved that they are still together. Those that are glad they divorced
are usually coming from situations that were much worse than yours.

[Ignoramus18270]

In article <bpg3rh$1ma2aa$1@ID-198599.news.uni-berlin.de>, Chrys wrote:

I was happy that I got divorced, but it was a much different situation that you're in. My husband had become a total beast with no redeeming qualities and we had no children, no debts, and no shared assets. It was

Scary stuff. What was so bestial about him?

i

[Whisper]

Happy about it?.. no Regretful.. hmmm not really.. but there will always be
a part of me that wonders WHY it didn't work..and there will be sad...I had
thought I married my life partner...


Even though I am remarried to a wonderful man.. its different...

Kass



"Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:08jlrvg0qrrogdfu2sd04gfq6la8se1el3@4ax.com...

I know this is the "marriage" newsgroup and all. Hey, if there were ever a more bitter and angry group of people worse then those found here, it would be them who dwell on all.support.divorce so I don't even bother going there. =) Really, I posed some questions there once and nearly got my head handed to me. I know there must be some divorcees on here and what I'm asking is this. So many people on this group seem to try to steer you away from divorce and I suppose that is justifiable. But for those of you who have gone the route of the big "D" word, were there any regrets? I look at it like this. I work in a place where people threaten to leave all the time. They complain and complain and most of them never go. But those that do, and resurface later, well, not one has ever regretted leaving. Any thoughts? --Brian

[shinypenny]

whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message news:<20031119065946.28548.00000491@mb-m11.aol.com>...>

So, yes, from a personal perspective, the divorce

was definitely positive.

Wow, Shiela, you wrote exactly what I was going to say!

OTOH, my kids were school-age when I divorced. That wasn't by accident. I strongly felt that those first five or six years are very important to their character and personality development.

When we divorced, my oldest was going into K, the youngest was in
preschool. I agree with Shiela that the first four-six years are very
important. I feel very strongly that, if at all possible, one parent
should stay home with their child the first four years.

Also bear in mind that experts say it takes a child, no matter what
age, an average of about four years just to process it and adapt.
That's about what I saw with my own kids.

jen

[shinypenny]

Doug Anderson <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<sdAub.242347$Tr4.716911@attbi_s03>...

And also that getting divorced won't actually make you a happier person unless you can figure out what you did to get yourself into that situation in the first place, and how you are going to avoid doing the same thing in the future!

Yep!

The question I asked myself was "if I knew that there was a good
possiblity that I'd never find another significant love relationship,
and spend the rest of my days without one, would I still want to get
divorced?" It's always easy to assume that if you trade in one model,
you can just go out and find a better one eventually.

jen

[Kendricks]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:20:05 GMT, Doug Anderson
<ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote:

I've not divorced, but I've noticed that a rather high percentage of the sensible regulars here have been divorced. JWB, jen (shinypenny), Emma Anne and Sheila come to mind right off. I don't think any of the above people had a family consisting of several children and a baby, though, did they? So - what about the kids, who would be effectively abandoned?You know what Bill:a) Brian doesn't have "several children and a baby." (He has _a_ child and a baby.)b) Sheila got divorced with two young children. I don't know about jen and E.A.c) Stick your snotty attitude about Brian where it belongs, and stop blaming him for the fact that your marriage is over.

Wow, I finally agree with a Doug anderson post. Amazing.

[Brian]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:15:10 GMT, "Bill in Co." <ornery@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Doug Anderson wrote:

I don't think any of the above people had a family consisting of severalchildren and a baby, though, did they? So - what about the kids, who wouldbe effectively abandoned?

And what makes you think that kids would be abandoned in a divorce?
That simply makes so sense.

--Brian

[Brian]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 05:24:09 GMT, "Bill in Co." <ornery@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Doug Anderson wrote:

Oh gee, I guess that justifies it, then. We're "only" talking about a childand a baby. I'm sorry I missed that, and I stand corrected.

I'm not. And I don't see how your projection enters into this, either.

No, Bill. Doug has a point. I ask a simple question and right away
you throw comments at me about abandoning my children. How the hell
do you know I wouldn't end up with them? I'm here... I've been through
therapy, I've apparently not thrown in the towel so quickly. Do I
sound like the kind of man who would throw some clothes in a bag, walk
out, and never see my kids until their high school graduation? No,
Bill. That's not me. I'm here because I'm trying to do what's best
for my children. If that means staying together because my wife and I
are able to bring them up in a healthy environment, then fine. If we
can't, we need to seek other options. No one is getting abandoned.

--Brian

[Brian]

On 19 Nov 2003 11:59:46 GMT, whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote:

>> I know this is the "marriage" newsgroup and all. Hey, if there were >> ever a more bitter and angry group of people worse then those found >> here, it would be them who dwell on all.support.divorce so I don't >> even bother going there. =) Really, I posed some questions there once >> and nearly got my head handed to me. I know there must be some >> divorcees on here and what I'm asking is this. So many people on this >> group seem to try to steer you away from divorce and I suppose that is >> justifiable. But for those of you who have gone the route of the big >> "D" word, were there any regrets? I look at it like this. I work in >> a place where people threaten to leave all the time. They complain >> and complain and most of them never go. But those that do, and >> resurface later, well, not one has ever regretted leaving. Any >> thoughts? > > I've not divorced, but I've noticed that a rather high percentage of > the sensible regulars here have been divorced. JWB, jen (shinypenny), > Emma Anne and Sheila come to mind right off. I don't think any of the above people had a family consisting of several children and a baby, though, did they? So - what about the kids, whowould

You know what Bill:a) Brian doesn't have "several children and a baby." (He has _a_ child and a baby.)b) Sheila got divorced with two young children. I don't know about jen and E.A.Did someone call me? :-)Brian, I don't have enough time this morning to write everything I'm thinking,but wanted to at least touch bases here:I have to look at my divorce from two different perspectives: mine,personally, and the effect it had on my children. From a totally personalperspective, my divorce was one of the top ten best things I could do formyself. Seriously. I've not given all the details of my marriage (and ifyou'd like to know more, I'd prefer that you e-mail me, rather than discussingit on here) but suffice it to say that I might not be alive today if I'dremained married to my ex. So, yes, from a personal perspective, the divorcewas definitely positive.OTOH, my kids were school-age when I divorced. That wasn't by accident. Istrongly felt that those first five or six years are very important to theircharacter and personality development. I felt it was *so* important for themto have two parents, who were both there, instead of each one trying to dealwith being a single parent (and the concomitant stretching of all resources --money, time, energy, emotional reserves). I did everything I could to stayduring this very vulnerable time, because, (1) I can tell you as a woman whostayed at home for the first 6 years, and then went to work, I was a *better*parent then, than I was as a single parent. I had more patience, I laughedmore, more of my time with my kids was spent in "quality" activities, ratherthan "drive here, go there, get this done" stuff. And (2) the kids really,really benefitted from having both parents readily available to them duringthis time.This doesn't even address the logistical issues of spending so much of the timegoing back and forth between houses and of not having *a* space where all oftheir stuff is.More subtly, but probably most importantly, there is the emotional impact oflosing their intact home. A couple of years ago, my son seemed to be broodingabout something. I asked what was going on. He sort of sighed and said, "Idunno. It's just kind of weird to realize that your parents... well, theydon't really like each other." He's not particularly verbal about hisfeelings, but I could tell this really bothered him. My ex and I have workedthrough most of our issues, and 95% of the time our interactions are quitefriendly --laughing, and joking around and whatnot. But... I'm sure he wisheswe'd never divorced.So, as a mother (and to the degree that my own self-concept comes from myadequacy as a mother....) I have great regrets about getting divorced. I hurtmy kids. I don't feel that I should hide from that. I don't buy that wholething that "well, it is better than they see the affectionate, more positiverelationship you have with your DH than the relationship you had with yourex". No, I don't believe that-- *they* would have been better off if we hadbeen able to carry on the outwardly cordial relationship that my ex and I had.They were not privvy to the problems in my marriage; from *their* perspective,they had a really great home. I failed them.I've got to go to work.Sheila

Thanks for the insight Sheila. It sounds like our marriages are...or
were somewhat different but the feedback helps. Most of all, I'm
concerned about what a separation/divorce would do to our children.
Most parents would die for their children without giving it as much as
a thought so why not commit, like you did, for a few years to give
them time to grow and develop with both parents in the home? This is
what I am struggling with. I know there will come a time when my
marriage will end. Our therapist already said if nothing changes, he
imagines it would be when our children are out of the house. Right
now, he said it's obvious that they are the glue that is holding us
together. I know they are oblivious to that now, but as they get
older, I think it would be a hard fact to hide.

--Brian

[Brian]

On 19 Nov 2003 12:53:35 -0800, shinypenny0001@yahoo.com (shinypenny)
wrote:

whansami@aol.com (WhansaMi) wrote in message news:<20031119065946.28548.00000491@mb-m11.aol.com>...> So, yes, from a personal perspective, the divorce

Wow, Shiela, you wrote exactly what I was going to say!

When we divorced, my oldest was going into K, the youngest was inpreschool. I agree with Shiela that the first four-six years are veryimportant. I feel very strongly that, if at all possible, one parentshould stay home with their child the first four years.Also bear in mind that experts say it takes a child, no matter whatage, an average of about four years just to process it and adapt.That's about what I saw with my own kids.jen

Well we at least got that covered! =) My wife is starting up her own
day-care center from the home in a few weeks. She's not planning on
going back to work after her maternity leave.

--Brian

[Brian]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 03:56:36 GMT, "JWB" <jwbSPAMBEGONE3333@excite.com>
wrote:

"Brian" <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:08jlrvg0qrrogdfu2sd04gfq6la8se1el3@4ax .com...

Brian,I was very much like you, minus the children (she had a child - not the samething). Divorce was a great thing for me (and for her). I got my life back,and was ready to date the next day However, with your kids, it's bound to be a FAR different experience. Iwalked away, and saw my ex exactly one time since I left the apartment. Ihave no weekly payments. My wife doesn't have to deal with my ex in ourlives. I don't have to support two households.Plus, I don't have any kids to miss.Can you be happier with all of the above than you are right now?

I think the worse part for me would be to drop the kids off. No, what
would even be worse is for someone else to take a "fatherly" roll in
their lives. I don't know how I would handle my son calling someone
else dad, or whatever. I've had a step-father before and he and I
were always close... my dad seemed to appreciate the fact that I had
someone else in my life to care about me, but I'm not sure if I'm that
person. I would hate the fact, at least thinking about it now, that
my children would have a step parent. I know my wife would feel the
same way. I do love my wife but instead of having a nurturing
relationship, I find it often draining. I do think I could be happier
but so many things would have to go just right in order for that to
happen. We'd have to share custody of our kids, my wife would have to
keep the house (which I would help pay for of course) and our families
would have to be supportive. It's easy to say all that would happen
up front but once lines are drawn and attorneys get involved, things
would be bound to change.

--Brian

[Amy Lou]

"WhansaMi" <whansami@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031119065946.28548.00000491@mb-m11.aol.com...

OTOH, my kids were school-age when I divorced. That wasn't by accident.

I

strongly felt that those first five or six years are very important to

their

character and personality development. I felt it was *so* important for

them

to have two parents, who were both there, instead of each one trying to

deal

with being a single parent (and the concomitant stretching of all

resources --

money, time, energy, emotional reserves). I did everything I could to

stay

during this very vulnerable time, because, (1) I can tell you as a woman

who

stayed at home for the first 6 years, and then went to work, I was a

*better*

parent then, than I was as a single parent. I had more patience, I

laughed

more, more of my time with my kids was spent in "quality" activities,

rather

than "drive here, go there, get this done" stuff. And (2) the kids

really,

really benefitted from having both parents readily available to them

during

this time.

I agree it is important for kids to have two parents. In my experience
dealing with being a single parent was an important period of growth for me
and for my ex and for our child as well. Had I not divorced I might not have
gone back to study which I thoroughly enjoyed. My child might not have
benefitted from the company of other adults and children in a child care
environment. My ex had been a complete non-parent whilst we were married but
when confronted with *having* to parent (in his case one day per week) he
became quite good at it. Oh no, our son was much better off with his parents
apart.

Amy

[shinypenny]

Brian <jbrianchamberlin@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<uc3prv4mp6qjcsloc7aa2c45fmik17bvgm@4ax.com>. ..

Thanks for the insight Sheila. It sounds like our marriages are...or were somewhat different but the feedback helps. Most of all, I'm concerned about what a separation/divorce would do to our children. Most parents would die for their children without giving it as much as a thought so why not commit, like you did, for a few years to give them time to grow and develop with both parents in the home? This is what I am struggling with. I know there will come a time when my marriage will end. Our therapist already said if nothing changes, he imagines it would be when our children are out of the house. Right now, he said it's obvious that they are the glue that is holding us together. I know they are oblivious to that now, but as they get older, I think it would be a hard fact to hide.

Brian, if you really feel that divorce is inevitable, then I would say
that sooner may be better than later. If you divorced now, your kids
are young enough that they will probably never know anything else. My
girls do still have memories of when we lived together. These memories
are fading, particularly with my youngest, but will never be gone
completely. Teen years are very hard, and adding a divorce into the
mix seems guaranteed for some tough painful times. As for waiting
until they're out of the house, well, I've heard lots of adult
children of divorce complain that it was still very painful because it
made them think their whole childhood was one big sham.

There's never any good time, but I'm thinking when the children are
too young to remember any other arrangement might be the least
painful. Of course, even if kids were babies when it happens, kids
seem to have a way of envying intact families of their peers!

With all that said, it really bugs me that your therapist would say
such a thing. He should remain neutral and not tell you something like
this. Make sure his opinion is not coloring your decision, okay?

jen