A woman speaks on a life spent without children - interesting reading

[urf]

http://www.aarpmagazine.org/people/A...babyblues.html

[whisper]

Interesting article...

it does make a person think


Kass
mother of 3


"urf" <urf@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Vs9sb.13599$hB5.13509@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...

http://www.aarpmagazine.org/people/A...babyblues.html

[Dreamspinner3]

Interesting article...but I can't see myself regretting my decision
not to have any children when I turn 60. I knew at a very young age I
didn't want to be a mother and that feeling has remained throughout
the years. I just turned 37 and I still feel that way--no biological
clock ticking for me!

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:00:21 GMT, "urf" <urf@nospam.com> wrote:

http://www.aarpmagazine.org/people/A...babyblues.html

[JWB]

"Kim/Dreamspinner3" <dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:ikd3rvc41krla8dciku808vu4vjirm9q3n@4ax.com...

Interesting article...but I can't see myself regretting my decision not to have any children when I turn 60. I knew at a very young age I didn't want to be a mother and that feeling has remained throughout the years. I just turned 37 and I still feel that way--no biological clock ticking for me!

I feel the same way. I have plenty of nieces and nephews, and I have the
freedom that not having kids gives me.

I'm not knocking kids (never do). I'm sure kids are fine, especially once
they get older, but I dunno - I'm not so sure it's worth going through what
I see many parents go through.

Just my observation: for every happy family I know, I would guess I know
three not-so-happy ones. Where the parents just plod from day to day,
working jobs they'd rather not work but can't afford to quit, having no time
or energy for fun with each other, doing the "daycare shuffle", never doing
"adult" things, worrying about credit card bills and which parent has enough
sick days left to miss work in a snowstorm when schools are closed...Ugh.
Not the life for me.

[Amy Lou]

"whisper" <noway@notnow.com> wrote in message
news:CScsb.29107$E9.10971@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

Interesting article... it does make a person think

Yes. Did you notice how the woman stopped herself from wallowing in self
pity? She switched from focussing on what she didn't have to focussing on
what she did have. A wise move, in my book.

Amy

[Ignoramus32131]

It is much better to be old with a bunch of children and grandchildren
taking interest in you, than to be old alone.

Children are a pain, but they also are the most faithful friends for
life.

i

[Ignoramus32131]

In article <k4jsb.75800$ri.13394354@twister.nyc.rr.com>, JWB wrote:

"Kim/Dreamspinner3" <dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:ikd3rvc41krla8dciku808vu4vjirm9q3n@4ax.com...

I feel the same way. I have plenty of nieces and nephews, and I have the freedom that not having kids gives me. I'm not knocking kids (never do). I'm sure kids are fine, especially once they get older, but I dunno - I'm not so sure it's worth going through what I see many parents go through. Just my observation: for every happy family I know, I would guess I know three not-so-happy ones. Where the parents just plod from day to day, working jobs they'd rather not work but can't afford to quit, having no time or energy for fun with each other, doing the "daycare shuffle", never doing "adult" things, worrying about credit card bills and which parent has enough sick days left to miss work in a snowstorm when schools are closed...Ugh. Not the life for me.

On the other hand, I have a smart and faithful friend at home, who is
very happy to see me every day, and who agrees to play with me on any
day as well. I can talk to him and discuss various stuff etc.

Kids are a hassle sometimes, granted, but at other times they are
great companions. Young ones are not much worse than older kids,
actually.

I definitely do miss the free time. Just last weekend, I savored a free
day when the kid was at grandparents. I went to a gun range and had a
great day. But, on the other hand, I never feel lonely with a 2.5 year
old in the house.

i

[Dreamspinner3]

But there is no guarantee that the children a person has will be there for
them when they get old. My mother works in a nursing home and has for quite
sometime and she's seen so many people there spend day after day all alone,
their kids and/or grandkids never spending time with them. Plus I feel
having children just so that you have someone to take care of you in your
old age is not a good reason to have children.

"Ignoramus32131" <ignoramus32131@NOSPAM.32131.invalid> wrote in message
news:bote8o$q59$0@pita.alt.net...

It is much better to be old with a bunch of children and grandchildren taking interest in you, than to be old alone.

[urf]

I have a perspective on the subject that comes with age.

I barely remember life before children, but I did have one.
Then I had a life with babies, toddlers, children, adolescents, teens
and college age live aways. Now I have grandchildren and adult
offspring. Now is the best of times. I wouldn't have these times,
at least in this way, if I had not gone through the other times, not
that they were bad at all.

Looking back, I would not change a thing.


"JWB" <jwbSPAMBEGONE3333@excite.com> wrote in message
news:k4jsb.75800$ri.13394354@twister.nyc.rr.com...

"Kim/Dreamspinner3" <dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:ikd3rvc41krla8dciku808vu4vjirm9q3n@4ax.com...

I feel the same way. I have plenty of nieces and nephews, and I have the freedom that not having kids gives me. I'm not knocking kids (never do). I'm sure kids are fine, especially once they get older, but I dunno - I'm not so sure it's worth going through

what

I see many parents go through. Just my observation: for every happy family I know, I would guess I know three not-so-happy ones. Where the parents just plod from day to day, working jobs they'd rather not work but can't afford to quit, having no

time

or energy for fun with each other, doing the "daycare shuffle", never

doing

"adult" things, worrying about credit card bills and which parent has

enough

sick days left to miss work in a snowstorm when schools are closed...Ugh. Not the life for me.

[Ignoramus32131]

In article <botf0h$1iqlrv$1@ID-75132.news.uni-berlin.de>, Dreamspinner3 wrote:

But there is no guarantee that the children a person has will be there for them when they get old.

Agreed.

But if you do not have children and grandchildren, there is a
guarantee that they won;t be there when you get old.

My mother works in a nursing home and has for quite sometime and she's seen so many people there spend day after day all alone, their kids and/or grandkids never spending time with them. Plus I feel having children just so that you have someone to take care of you in your old age is not a good reason to have children.

Again, I agree with you here.

i

"Ignoramus32131" <ignoramus32131@NOSPAM.32131.invalid> wrote in message news:bote8o$q59$0@pita.alt.net...

[Tony Miller]

On 12 Nov 2003 13:57:44 GMT,
Ignoramus32131 <ignoramus32131@NOSPAM.32131.invalid> wrote:

It is much better to be old with a bunch of children and grandchildren taking interest in you, than to be old alone. Children are a pain, but they also are the most faithful friends for life.

Tell that to Mr. and Mrs. Menendez

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

[22Ted]

"Dreamspinner3" <dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:botf0h$1iqlrv$1@ID-75132.news.uni-berlin.de...
| But there is no guarantee that the children a person has will be there for
| them when they get old. My mother works in a nursing home and has for
quite
| sometime and she's seen so many people there spend day after day all
alone,
| their kids and/or grandkids never spending time with them.

You reep what you sow I think, and from my experience those who have been
terribly loney during old age have been loney people all thier lives; kids
or no kids.



Plus I feel
| having children just so that you have someone to take care of you in your
| old age is not a good reason to have children.

I agree, but I don't think many of us have children for that reason. Last
week an elderly friend of the family passed away from cancer in her home and
I was so in awe at how all the children, grand children, great grand
children and long time friends had gathered day after day to be with her
until she passed; people were flying in from overseas to say goodbye to this
beautiful woman. And I found myself thinking how wonderful for her to have
this huge family who wanted to sit with her day after day, reading to her,
talking and so on, and then I thought of my own grandmother who has maybe
one grandkid visit her a year and I don't ever call her or see her even
though she's just down the road. I wonder if she ever ponders why no one
wants to visit her. She's reeping nothing as far as I can tell...

Having a great family to cares for you when you are old is a bonus and not
something expected. It's those who do have children for that reason who get
sorely disapointed in the end if you know what I mean?







|
| "Ignoramus32131" <ignoramus32131@NOSPAM.32131.invalid> wrote in message
| news:bote8o$q59$0@pita.alt.net...
|
| > It is much better to be old with a bunch of children and grandchildren
| > taking interest in you, than to be old alone.
|
|

[Kendricks]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:12:22 GMT, "urf" <urf@nospam.com> wrote:

I have a perspective on the subject that comes with age.I barely remember life before children, but I did have one.Then I had a life with babies, toddlers, children, adolescents, teensand college age live aways. Now I have grandchildren and adultoffspring. Now is the best of times. I wouldn't have these times,at least in this way, if I had not gone through the other times, notthat they were bad at all.Looking back, I would not change a thing.

Just keep telling yourself that, funboy!

"JWB" <jwbSPAMBEGONE3333@excite.com> wrote in messagenews:k4jsb.75800$ri.13394354@twister.nyc.rr .com...

what

time

doing

enough

[Kendricks]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:26:03 GMT, Kim/Dreamspinner3
<dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> wrote:

Interesting article...but I can't see myself regretting my decisionnot to have any children when I turn 60. I knew at a very young age Ididn't want to be a mother and that feeling has remained throughoutthe years. I just turned 37 and I still feel that way--no biologicalclock ticking for me!

I know EXACTLY how you feel!

--

Whenever you face a difficult decision and are unsure how to proceed,
stop and ask yourself - What Would Kendricks Do?

[Doug Anderson]

"Dreamspinner3" <dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> writes:

But there is no guarantee that the children a person has will be there for them when they get old. My mother works in a nursing home and has for quite sometime and she's seen so many people there spend day after day all alone, their kids and/or grandkids never spending time with them.

Life has no guarantees.

Plus I feel having children just so that you have someone to take care of you in your old age is not a good reason to have children.

That's true. It is a bad reason. A good reason is that it is a joy
to share their lives when they are young, and there is _some_ chance
that the joy gets to continue as everyone gets older.

[Bill in Co.]

Doug Anderson wrote:

"Dreamspinner3" <dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> writes:

That's why it sucks that there are no over-the-counter meds you can get, so
when you reach that point, and assuming you want to, you can comfortably 'check
out'. The thought of having to end up in a nursing home, and spending your
remaining time there, is about as depressing as you can get, at least to me.

[Tony Miller]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:31:24 GMT,
WWKD <jdk00@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:26:03 GMT, Kim/Dreamspinner3<dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> wrote:

I know EXACTLY how you feel!

That's good. Some of us should not reproduce.

-Tony

--
"If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it's time
to fertilize your lawn!"
Want to jump start your marriage? Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend.
Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

[Ignoramus32131]

In article <J3tsb.8415$nz.7441@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.n et>, Bill in Co. wrote:

That's why it sucks that there are no over-the-counter meds you can get, so when you reach that point, and assuming you want to, you can comfortably 'check out'. The thought of having to end up in a nursing home, and spending your remaining time there, is about as depressing as you can get, at least to me.

shotgun shells are sold over the counter.

i

[Chrys]

"Amy Lou" <amylouisa@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:d3ksb.7645$aT.1808@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

"whisper" <noway@notnow.com> wrote in message news:CScsb.29107$E9.10971@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

Yes. Did you notice how the woman stopped herself from wallowing in self pity? She switched from focussing on what she didn't have to focussing

on

what she did have. A wise move, in my book. Amy

That's applicable to everything in life though. There's always so many
roads that were left untaken. I regret my entire first marriage. I
regret not going to college sooner. So many things, and wallowing in self
pity doesn't change the past. All a person can ever do at any given time
is make what choice seems most logical and move on from there. Maybe when
I'm old I will regret not having children, but then again to have them,
I'd have to divorce my husband, find a new man who wanted children, be
likely to have to go through fertility treatments, take a 50/50 chance
that the marriage would not work and I'd be left a single mother, and
perhaps if things worked out in such a way that my children became
productive citizens who made lots of money and lovingly took care of me in
my old age (although a look in any nurse home shows this is seldom the
case) maybe it would be worth the sacrifice. But I'd still be left
sitting there regretting the costs of what I'd given up. That doesn't
seem like a good plan to me and certainly it seems far better to stay in a
happy marriage and not have children that I don't even want to start with.

[Stephanie and Tim]

"JWB" <jwbSPAMBEGONE3333@excite.com> wrote in message
news:k4jsb.75800$ri.13394354@twister.nyc.rr.com...

"Kim/Dreamspinner3" <dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:ikd3rvc41krla8dciku808vu4vjirm9q3n@4ax.com...

I feel the same way. I have plenty of nieces and nephews, and I have the freedom that not having kids gives me. I'm not knocking kids (never do). I'm sure kids are fine, especially once they get older, but I dunno - I'm not so sure it's worth going through

what

I see many parents go through.

Everyone has a different perspective. I am the mother of a 3yo and a 7 week
old. It does not feel like "going through" to me. This is my life and I love
it. So far, each stage of my son's (the elder) has been better, more
rewarding and more fun than the last. So I am thinking that I will still
love it when they are older. But they sure are sweet when they are little
too.

Just my observation: for every happy family I know, I would guess I know three not-so-happy ones. Where the parents just plod from day to day, working jobs they'd rather not work but can't afford to quit, having no

time

or energy for fun with each other, doing the "daycare shuffle", never

doing

"adult" things, worrying about credit card bills and which parent has

enough

sick days left to miss work in a snowstorm when schools are closed...Ugh. Not the life for me.

I do not think that is strictly the life of a parent. Many people are
miserable because they cannot figure out that they are responsible for their
own happiness, whether by chosing to do something else with their life, or
just chosing to be happy. I certainly agree with you that a person who
cannot be happy having kids should not have them. I hope that the days are
gone when a person was considered weird or abnormal if they did not have
kids. But plodding day to day is NOT the lot of a parent, specifically.
Anyone too clueless to be otherwise can blame themselves.



S

P.S. I am back as much as my 7 week old will let me. Hi.

[Stephanie and Tim]

"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:HZssb.182256$Fm2.165171@attbi_s04...

"Dreamspinner3" <dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> writes:

for

them when they get old. My mother works in a nursing home and has for

quite

sometime and she's seen so many people there spend day after day all

alone,

their kids and/or grandkids never spending time with them. Life has no guarantees.

your

old age is not a good reason to have children. That's true. It is a bad reason. A good reason is that it is a joy to share their lives when they are young, and there is _some_ chance that the joy gets to continue as everyone gets older.

I believe that if you savor this joy, you will pass it to your children. And
you increase your likelihood, without even trying, of your children being
there for you.

S

[Ignoramus32131]

In article <botpg4$1ia7ra$1@ID-198599.news.uni-berlin.de>, Chrys wrote:

case) maybe it would be worth the sacrifice. But I'd still be left sitting there regretting the costs of what I'd given up. That doesn't seem like a good plan to me and certainly it seems far better to stay in a happy marriage and not have children that I don't even want to start with.

you can always have enough money to take care of yourself. You do not
need your children to be rich. But having company of younger people is
wonderful.

i

[JWB]

"Stephanie and Tim" <stowevtcannedmeatproduct@sover.net> wrote in message
news:w%tsb.694$Re.628273@newshog.newsread.com...

"JWB" <jwbSPAMBEGONE3333@excite.com> wrote in message news:k4jsb.75800$ri.13394354@twister.nyc.rr.com...

once

they get older, but I dunno - I'm not so sure it's worth going through what

Everyone has a different perspective. I am the mother of a 3yo and a 7

week

old. It does not feel like "going through" to me. This is my life and I

love

it. So far, each stage of my son's (the elder) has been better, more rewarding and more fun than the last. So I am thinking that I will still love it when they are older. But they sure are sweet when they are little too.

time

doing

enough

closed...Ugh.

Not the life for me. I do not think that is strictly the life of a parent. Many people are miserable because they cannot figure out that they are responsible for

their

own happiness, whether by chosing to do something else with their life, or just chosing to be happy. I certainly agree with you that a person who cannot be happy having kids should not have them. I hope that the days are gone when a person was considered weird or abnormal if they did not have kids. But plodding day to day is NOT the lot of a parent, specifically. Anyone too clueless to be otherwise can blame themselves.

I agree. I know I am responsible for my lot in life, and I alone have the
power to change it. I control my own happiness. I would think that if I
*did* have a kid, I would not end up like those parents I mention (that plod
along). But I see so many of my friends just having a not-so-fun life like I
mention, and they *all* have kids. In fact, the kids are prettymuch the
reason why they *can't* make big changes (like career / where they live /
etc). At least on the surface, I seem to have a better life than they do. I
could not imagine not having the freedom I have.

Will I feel differently later? I won't know until then. I do have to say I
enjoy my nieces and nephews very much (ages 2-8). But I enjoy going home
with just my wife too

[Ignoramus32131]

In article <igusb.81346$ri.13631104@twister.nyc.rr.com>, JWB wrote:

I agree. I know I am responsible for my lot in life, and I alone have the power to change it. I control my own happiness. I would think that if I *did* have a kid, I would not end up like those parents I mention (that plod along). But I see so many of my friends just having a not-so-fun life like I mention, and they *all* have kids. In fact, the kids are prettymuch the reason why they *can't* make big changes (like career / where they live / etc). At least on the surface, I seem to have a better life than they do. I could not imagine not having the freedom I have.

To me, I think, the key is not to have too many kids.

If I had more than one kid, I would likely be miserable. I just cannot
imagine the logistics of caring for more than one child. What if one
starts walking in one direction and another, in another direction? How
do you catch them? Or what if one needs to sleep but another
interferes. etc etc.

For some people one is too many, for me, I think, two is too many. I
would not want to be burdened by too many children for the sake of
reproduction,

We are not as dis-similar as you might think.

i

[JWB]

"Ignoramus32131" <ignoramus32131@NOSPAM.32131.invalid> wrote in message
news:botrqo$nu5$1@pita.alt.net...

We are not as dis-similar as you might think.

actually, I find I usually agree with you more than anyone in this group.
I'd even be happy to have you as a neighbor You are logical and
calculating. Much like me.

[Ignoramus32131]

In article <Mvusb.81418$ri.13634500@twister.nyc.rr.com>, JWB wrote:

"Ignoramus32131" <ignoramus32131@NOSPAM.32131.invalid> wrote in message

actually, I find I usually agree with you more than anyone in this group. I'd even be happy to have you as a neighbor You are logical and calculating. Much like me.

We both are beautiful people! just kidding

If you were my neighbor, I would give you some fresh chicken eggs from
my hens.

i

[urf]

Maybe you will find a nice Jamaican nurse to take care
of you during your nursing home stay.

"Chrys" <me13@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:botpg4$1ia7ra$1@ID-198599.news.uni-berlin.de...

"Amy Lou" <amylouisa@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:d3ksb.7645$aT.1808@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

on

That's applicable to everything in life though. There's always so many roads that were left untaken. I regret my entire first marriage. I regret not going to college sooner. So many things, and wallowing in self pity doesn't change the past. All a person can ever do at any given time is make what choice seems most logical and move on from there. Maybe when I'm old I will regret not having children, but then again to have them, I'd have to divorce my husband, find a new man who wanted children, be likely to have to go through fertility treatments, take a 50/50 chance that the marriage would not work and I'd be left a single mother, and perhaps if things worked out in such a way that my children became productive citizens who made lots of money and lovingly took care of me in my old age (although a look in any nurse home shows this is seldom the case) maybe it would be worth the sacrifice. But I'd still be left sitting there regretting the costs of what I'd given up. That doesn't seem like a good plan to me and certainly it seems far better to stay in a happy marriage and not have children that I don't even want to start with.

[Bill in Co.]

Ignoramus32131 wrote:

In article <J3tsb.8415$nz.7441@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.n et>, Bill in Co. wrote:

shotgun shells are sold over the counter.

Are shotgun shells a comfortable way to check out, Igor?

i

[Ignoramus32131]

In article <XDvsb.10553$6c3.2707@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink .net>, Bill in Co. wrote:

Ignoramus32131 wrote:

Are shotgun shells a comfortable way to check out, Igor?

They are the most comfortable way to check out, yes. You feel no pain
at all. Poof, and you are gone.

i

[shinypenny]

"JWB" <jwbSPAMBEGONE3333@excite.com> wrote in message news:<k4jsb.75800$ri.13394354@twister.nyc.rr.com>. ..

Just my observation: for every happy family I know, I would guess I know three not-so-happy ones. Where the parents just plod from day to day, working jobs they'd rather not work but can't afford to quit, having no time or energy for fun with each other, doing the "daycare shuffle", never doing "adult" things, worrying about credit card bills and which parent has enough sick days left to miss work in a snowstorm when schools are closed...Ugh. Not the life for me.

Well, you could be over-interpreting how they really feel. I'd bet if
you asked those not-so-happy types whether they'd give up their
children, very few would.

I have a friend who was determined never to have children. The only
children she liked were my kids -- she felt they were polite and
obedient and not unruly like other children.

Then lo and behold, she got accidentally pregnant at 36, and after
much thinking, decided to have the child. Just saw her recently and
her toddler is just the cutest, sweetest thing! And she just loves
being a mom -- everything about it! She gushes on and on: "why didn't
you tell me it would be so great??" Now she's thinking about having
another one.

You know, I always suspected she'd be great with older children, since
she is good at not talking down to kids and very patient. But I wasn't
so sure how she'd handle the whole baby thing. Turns out she is a
natural mother. I'm very impressed. I have never seen her happier and
I've known her forever!

jen