Trial separation? Need advice...

[Manna]

I need a little advice.. hope this is an okay type post.

My husband (25) and I (26) have been married for 5 years, together for
7.

When we first met and started living together, we were both partied
alot, were generally pretty wild, etc. At 20 I got pregnant with our
first son and our ultra-religious families gave us the ultimatum "get
married or put the kid up for adoption" (I was homeless at the time).
So we got married.

I settled down, took a job and am still here today. We've also since
had a second child. My husband, on the other hand, remained wild -
drinking lots, doing drugs, staying out all hours of the night, not
calling, not keeping a steady job, just generally not respecting me at
all - up until we had a VERY brief separation around January of this
year. He stayed gone maybe 2 months, got "clean" in AA/NA and came
back home.

Things since then have been better, relatively speaking. He's been
clean and sober since I kicked him out, but his temper is ridiculous.
It all sort of hit home for me the other day when I was told by one of
my son's teachers that when she asked him what he was drawing a
picture of he told her, "my mommy crying because my daddy kicked her."
Of course, when I asked my son about it he said it was "just pretend"
but he had to get those ideas from somewhere (he's 4).

I don't know that he's ever seen his Dad push me before, but it's
happened. And I know we've fought more than we should have in front
of him. When I tell my husband about this, he says "if I had hit you
you would have known it!" and that he only pushed me lightly because I
shouldn't have been nagging him, etc.

I brought up the subject last night - wasn't he tired of being
miserable? Our marriage is failing, and it hasn't gotten any better
for five years. I told him I was tired of trying. Of course he says
"I want to be a better person, start going to church, etc"... but I'm
so tired. He says he wants to still try but I remind him I've been
going at this with effort for four years, while he's only been working
on it for 6 months. Maybe that's why.

Anyway, I was thinking a trial separation would be a good thing. We'd
get some time to focus on ourselves... we married so young and the
fact is we really weren't ready but more forced into it because of the
situation. I think if we truly love each other we'll end up drifting
back together.. . but if not, we can end this charade that we've been
calling a marriage.

Any advice, anybody? Thanks!

[Tsam Nami]

x-no-archive: yes

Ignoramus5278 wrote:
[post snipped, changing topic]

I just noticed that Igor's posts no longer are "no archive".
Is there any significance to this?
(I find it convenient that they are in Google,
when catching up on an old thread there.)
--
Tsam

[Stephanie S]

"Manna" <etrash4@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e98299f4.0306250759.2752ec0b@posting.google.c om...

I need a little advice.. hope this is an okay type post. My husband (25) and I (26) have been married for 5 years, together for 7. When we first met and started living together, we were both partied alot, were generally pretty wild, etc. At 20 I got pregnant with our first son and our ultra-religious families gave us the ultimatum "get married or put the kid up for adoption" (I was homeless at the time). So we got married. I settled down, took a job and am still here today. We've also since had a second child. My husband, on the other hand, remained wild - drinking lots, doing drugs, staying out all hours of the night, not calling, not keeping a steady job, just generally not respecting me at all - up until we had a VERY brief separation around January of this year. He stayed gone maybe 2 months, got "clean" in AA/NA and came back home. Things since then have been better, relatively speaking. He's been clean and sober since I kicked him out, but his temper is ridiculous. It all sort of hit home for me the other day when I was told by one of my son's teachers that when she asked him what he was drawing a picture of he told her, "my mommy crying because my daddy kicked her." Of course, when I asked my son about it he said it was "just pretend" but he had to get those ideas from somewhere (he's 4). I don't know that he's ever seen his Dad push me before, but it's happened. And I know we've fought more than we should have in front of him. When I tell my husband about this, he says "if I had hit you you would have known it!" and that he only pushed me lightly because I shouldn't have been nagging him, etc.

This *sounds like* classic early stages of physical abuse. A person who will
blame you for his or her physical reaction is out of control. *If* that is
what is going on here, this kind of thing tends to escalate rather than
lessening or staying the same level, if not dealt with. What do you mean by
"push?" It cannot be too great if it makes you cry.

I brought up the subject last night - wasn't he tired of being miserable? Our marriage is failing, and it hasn't gotten any better for five years. I told him I was tired of trying. Of course he says "I want to be a better person, start going to church, etc"... but I'm so tired. He says he wants to still try but I remind him I've been going at this with effort for four years, while he's only been working on it for 6 months. Maybe that's why. Anyway, I was thinking a trial separation would be a good thing. We'd get some time to focus on ourselves... we married so young and the fact is we really weren't ready but more forced into it because of the situation. I think if we truly love each other we'll end up drifting back together.. . but if not, we can end this charade that we've been calling a marriage. Any advice, anybody? Thanks!

You need to decide if you want to work on it or not. A trial separation
sounds fine if ending the marriage is what you are after. If staying
together is what you are after, then counseling would be better.

S

[Glen G.]

Manna <etrash4@yahoo.com> wrote in article
<e98299f4.0306250759.2752ec0b@posting.google.com>. ..

I need a little advice.. hope this is an okay type post.

That's what we're here for :-)

My husband (25) and I (26) have been married for 5 years, together for 7. When we first met and started living together, we were both partied alot, were generally pretty wild, etc. At 20 I got pregnant with our first son and our ultra-religious families gave us the ultimatum "get married or put the kid up for adoption" (I was homeless at the time). So we got married. I settled down, took a job and am still here today. We've also since had a second child. My husband, on the other hand, remained wild - drinking lots, doing drugs, staying out all hours of the night, not calling, not keeping a steady job, just generally not respecting me at all - up until we had a VERY brief separation around January of this year. He stayed gone maybe 2 months, got "clean" in AA/NA and came back home.

"Getting clean" is a good sign. What about his employment -- is it steady
now?

Things since then have been better, relatively speaking. He's been clean and sober since I kicked him out, but his temper is ridiculous. It all sort of hit home for me the other day when I was told by one of my son's teachers that when she asked him what he was drawing a picture of he told her, "my mommy crying because my daddy kicked her." Of course, when I asked my son about it he said it was "just pretend" but he had to get those ideas from somewhere (he's 4). I don't know that he's ever seen his Dad push me before, but it's happened. And I know we've fought more than we should have in front of him. When I tell my husband about this, he says "if I had hit you you would have known it!" and that he only pushed me lightly because I shouldn't have been nagging him, etc.

IMHO he's using that excuse to justify his abusive actions towards you, but
it's not the real reason
he's acting that way.

I brought up the subject last night - wasn't he tired of being miserable? Our marriage is failing, and it hasn't gotten any better for five years. I told him I was tired of trying. Of course he says "I want to be a better person, start going to church, etc"... but I'm so tired. He says he wants to still try but I remind him I've been going at this with effort for four years, while he's only been working on it for 6 months. Maybe that's why. Anyway, I was thinking a trial separation would be a good thing. We'd get some time to focus on ourselves... we married so young and the fact is we really weren't ready but more forced into it because of the situation. I think if we truly love each other we'll end up drifting back together.. . but if not, we can end this charade that we've been calling a marriage. Any advice, anybody? Thanks!

Okay, here's my advice: don't separate unless he becomes more violent.
Locate a batterer's intervention program and insist that he attend and
complete the course. My personal experience suggests that he
is very much afraid of something, and until he finds out what it is and how
to deal with it, things won't get any better and they might get a lot
worse. If he is sincere about wanting to "be a better person," attending a
properly-run BIP could be life-changing for him. The reason I suggest
*not* separating is that he may need a lot of support from you while he's
attending the course.

Please keep us posted.

Glen
0/0

(Yeah, it's been a year, but I'm back ;>)


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[fairly_happy]

x-no-archive: yes

"Ignoramus5278" <ignoramus5278@NOSPAM.5278.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnbfjk1p.dio.ignoramus5278@manifold.algebra .com...

I am confused a little, maybe you can help me. You say that his temper is ridiculous. Then for some reason you bring up a fictitious drawing by your son that refers to "you crying after his dad hit you". But then you continue and say that he never hit you. Then what is the relevance of the drawing?

Maybe the son is simply afraid that dad will hit mom? If the arguing is
severe enough, kids can get worried about that even if it never happens.
For example, I found out long after my divorce that my kids had been worried
that their dad would hit me (although he wasn't a hitter) because he yelled
and ranted and raved harshly enough to scare them. I wonder if there could
be some element of that in the OP story...

The arguing in front of children, who starts it? You or him? When he pushed you, did he do it because you did not let him leave the room where you were arguing?

[kitty]

I agree with Doug. I am sorry you have to go through this, but thinking
with a clear head is much better.
good luck!


"Doug Anderson" <ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fckKa.17454$3d.11452@sccrnsc02...

etrash4@yahoo.com (Manna) writes:

Quite a story, and I have no relevant experience from which to draw,

myself.

But, I think a trial separation is a good thing to do if your goal is to end up apart. If you want to stay _together_, then joint counseling is probably more productive.

[Shashay Doofray]

Let me make sure I have this straight.

Both you and your husband led a pretty wild and crazy life - totally
enjoying it - until you turned up preggers (oops!) at 20. Upon which time
you decided that the "right thing to do" was become the model of motherhood
and DAMN IT you expect your husband to thusly become the model of fatherhood
as well. To that end you constantly nag him at every turn that he has not
become the MAN that you damn well expect him to. Regardless of his feelings
on the matter.

First of all - maybe he didn't want you to get pregnant. Maybe he didn't
want to get married. Maybe he didn't want to change his lifestyle. Maybe,
just maybe he was perfectly happy the way that things were, before all hell
broke loose.

I can't see why you expect him to be something he obviously has no interest
in being. Oh yeah, the "I want to go to church" statement. Ever think that
he might be saying these things just to shut you up so you will quit nagging
him about it?

He isn't you - and he never will be. Either LOVE THE MAN YOU MARRIED,
without trying to change who he is - or resenting him because he still
enjoys the good life, or find a husband that wants the same things that you
do. Quit trying to change him. After all, wasn't he like this when you
fell in love and married him? Well then, live with it or get out.

SD

[Ignoramus5278]

An outstanding post.

i

In article <bddmf2$s2uns$1@ID-177524.news.dfncis.de>, Shashay Doofray wrote:

Let me make sure I have this straight. Both you and your husband led a pretty wild and crazy life - totally enjoying it - until you turned up preggers (oops!) at 20. Upon which time you decided that the "right thing to do" was become the model of motherhood and DAMN IT you expect your husband to thusly become the model of fatherhood as well. To that end you constantly nag him at every turn that he has not become the MAN that you damn well expect him to. Regardless of his feelings on the matter. First of all - maybe he didn't want you to get pregnant. Maybe he didn't want to get married. Maybe he didn't want to change his lifestyle. Maybe, just maybe he was perfectly happy the way that things were, before all hell broke loose. I can't see why you expect him to be something he obviously has no interest in being. Oh yeah, the "I want to go to church" statement. Ever think that he might be saying these things just to shut you up so you will quit nagging him about it? He isn't you - and he never will be. Either LOVE THE MAN YOU MARRIED, without trying to change who he is - or resenting him because he still enjoys the good life, or find a husband that wants the same things that you do. Quit trying to change him. After all, wasn't he like this when you fell in love and married him? Well then, live with it or get out. SD

[Manna]

> I am confused a little, maybe you can help me. You say that his temper

is ridiculous. Then for some reason you bring up a fictitious drawing by your son that refers to "you crying after his dad hit you". But then you continue and say that he never hit you. Then what is the relevance of the drawing?

Sorry if I wasn't very clear. I posted that very quickly (at work)
earlier today.. and I was pretty emotional at the time. LOL

Yeah.. he has an awful temper and has on occasion thrown things at me
(or just at the walls), punched holes in things, or pushed me.

The arguing in front of children, who starts it? You or him?

We're probably both guilty of this.

When he pushed you, did he do it because you did not let him leave the room where you were arguing?

No, he came over and pushed me down because I got the baby out of the
crib and he (the baby) pushed some buttons and changed the settings on
his guitar while he was playing it. (I was trying to eat dinner at
the time and figured he could watch the child for a few minutes).

Thanks!

[Nance]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:12:52 -0400, Herr Taurus
<gusaufdenkinder@hotmail.com> wrote:

That's the PAST! Don't make excuses for the present by bringing upthe PAST! That was then...this is now. And, besides...there's many amarriage that started out like yours...and has lasted 50 years andlonger.

Yeah, my paternal grandparents had one like that. He beat the crap out
of her and the male children and molested the female children. Gotta
love those enforced, stay together, forget past transgressions type of
marriages.

Generally, what starts out as ****, ends up as ****.

The fact of the matter is, she has grown up, he hasn't. If he's
unhappy, it's not her job to make him happy. If he is unhappy, that's
no crime. Get out. Move on. God bless.

Taking his unhappiness out on her, because he doesn't have the balls
to move on, could become a crime. That would be sad. And, if she
stayed around that long, she'd be a dumbass.

Nance

[Nance]

On 25 Jun 2003 20:38:20 -0700, etrash4@yahoo.com (Manna) wrote:

My husband won't go to counseling. I asked already. His opinion of counseling is this, "why should I pay someone else totell me how to fix something when I could do the same thing myself forfree if I wanted to badly enough?"

You have got to be kidding me.

The man has basically told you if you were important enough to him,
he'd make the requested changes on his own. No. Not basically. If the
above quote is true, he's out and out told you.

You don't matter to him from what you've posted above. Why are you
still there? Do you enjoy being abused?

Nance

[Doug Anderson]

"Shashay Doofray" <ShashayDoofray@yahoo.com> writes:

Let me make sure I have this straight. Both you and your husband led a pretty wild and crazy life - totally enjoying it - until you turned up preggers (oops!) at 20. Upon which time you decided that the "right thing to do" was become the model of motherhood and DAMN IT you expect your husband to thusly become the model of fatherhood as well. To that end you constantly nag him at every turn that he has not become the MAN that you damn well expect him to. Regardless of his feelings on the matter. First of all - maybe he didn't want you to get pregnant.

If he didn't want to father a child he should have practiced birth control.

Maybe he didn't want to get married.

If he didn't want to get married, he shouldn't have. It's not the OPs
fault that he did. That was a decision _he_ made.

Maybe he didn't want to change his lifestyle.

If that is the case he shouldn't have gotten someone pregnant and
married them, both choices that me made.

Maybe, just maybe he was perfectly happy the way that things were, before all hell broke loose.

Maybe he was, but he made choices that changed things.

I can't see why you expect him to be something he obviously has no interest in being. Oh yeah, the "I want to go to church" statement. Ever think that he might be saying these things just to shut you up so you will quit nagging him about it? He isn't you - and he never will be. Either LOVE THE MAN YOU MARRIED, without trying to change who he is - or resenting him because he still enjoys the good life, or find a husband that wants the same things that you do. Quit trying to change him. After all, wasn't he like this when you fell in love and married him? Well then, live with it or get out.

It is reasonable to want him not to be abusive, whether she leaves or
not. It is also reasonable to want him to support his child both
materially and emotionally.

[Doug Anderson]

Herr Taurus <gusaufdenkinder@hotmail.com> writes:

I, too, don't see the meaning behind your story. It sounds like your son is making up stories in his head. It doesn't sound like your husband is physically abusive.

It sounds to me like her husband is abusive, and it sounds like there
is a risk of him becoming seriously physically abusive.

[Manna]

> The fact of the matter is, she has grown up, he hasn't. If he's

unhappy, it's not her job to make him happy. If he is unhappy, that's no crime. Get out. Move on. God bless. Taking his unhappiness out on her, because he doesn't have the balls to move on, could become a crime. That would be sad. And, if she stayed around that long, she'd be a dumbass.

Thanks Nance.

You're very right. He's a grown man, he can make his own decisions.
I've only recently come to realize how much of an enabler I am... He
has admitted to me how miserable he is, but for some stupid reason I
always felt like it was my job to "save" him before. And I suppose
I've always minimized his mistreatment of me (probably because he says
"you deserved it, etc") - you know how when you stay in a bad
relationship for so long, you lose your sense of self, your
self-esteem.

Anyway, thanks for the advice everyone. Husband and I sat down and
talked about it last night and decided the best thing for the kids
would be for him to go. If once we're apart we decide to try to
"start over" from the beginning (dating again after a few months
hiatus) - fine. If not, then that's fine too. We can still be good
parents to our children individually without having to be involved in
a relationship with each other.

[Manna]

> >My husband won't go to counseling. I asked already.

His opinion of counseling is this, "why should I pay someone else totell me how to fix something when I could do the same thing myself forfree if I wanted to badly enough?" You have got to be kidding me. The man has basically told you if you were important enough to him, he'd make the requested changes on his own. No. Not basically. If the above quote is true, he's out and out told you. You don't matter to him from what you've posted above. Why are you still there? Do you enjoy being abused?

Yeah, it's ridiculous. He has a huge ego - "no one can tell me what
to do" is pretty much his life's motto. He doesn't understand the
meaning of "constructive criticism."

But soon it won't be my problem anymore...

Thanks!

[Doug Anderson]

Herr Taurus <gusaufdenkinder@hotmail.com> writes:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:43:02 -0500, "Shashay Doofray" <ShashayDoofray@yahoo.com> wrote:

You didn't wait for her ANSWER!

You'll notice some posters aren't big on waiting for answers! Answers
can interfere with their preconceived idea of how simple the world is.

[Herr Taurus]

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:09:14 GMT, Nance <nancyh@ptd.net> wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:12:52 -0400, Herr Taurus<gusaufdenkinder@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yeah, my paternal grandparents had one like that. He beat the crap outof her and the male children and molested the female children. Gottalove those enforced, stay together, forget past transgressions type ofmarriages.

What makes you think her marriage is like that, Nance?

Generally, what starts out as ****, ends up as ****.

Most people don't eat ****. Most eat food...and then it ends up as
****.

The same analogy can often be applied to a marriage.

The fact of the matter is, she has grown up, he hasn't. If he'sunhappy, it's not her job to make him happy.

Unless she applied for the job, of course. And maybe she feels she
HAS. Maybe she feels that's what the marriage vows hinted at.

If he is unhappy, that'sno crime. Get out. Move on. God bless.

You sure you didn't mean to post this to alt.divorce?! lol Without
checking, it almost sounds like yer postin' to both groups.

Taking his unhappiness out on her, because he doesn't have the ballsto move on, could become a crime. That would be sad. And, if shestayed around that long, she'd be a dumbass.Nance

Its obvious you have issues, Nance. You should try to be more
objective in your replies. Your issues aren't always the issues of
others.


Gus

If your parents never had any kids, chances are you won't either!

[Herr Taurus]

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:14:45 GMT, Nance <nancyh@ptd.net> wrote:

On 25 Jun 2003 20:38:20 -0700, etrash4@yahoo.com (Manna) wrote:

You have got to be kidding me.The man has basically told you if you were important enough to him,he'd make the requested changes on his own. No. Not basically. If theabove quote is true, he's out and out told you.You don't matter to him from what you've posted above. Why are youstill there? Do you enjoy being abused?Nance

What he really said was 'pay'.

And neither you nor I know what he really meant.

I've found most psychologists to be quacks...and I whole-heartedly
agree with his statement. Most bartenders are more qualified than
most psychologists.

Notice I said 'most'.


Gus

If your parents never had any kids, chances are you won't either!

[Herr Taurus]

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:04:54 GMT, Doug Anderson
<ethelthelog@yahoo.com> wrote:

Herr Taurus <gusaufdenkinder@hotmail.com> writes:

You'll notice some posters aren't big on waiting for answers! Answerscan interfere with their preconceived idea of how simple the world is.

Gus

If your parents never had any kids, chances are you won't either!

[Emma Anne]

Manna <etrash4@yahoo.com> wrote:

I brought up the subject last night - wasn't he tired of being miserable? Our marriage is failing, and it hasn't gotten any better for five years. I told him I was tired of trying. Of course he says "I want to be a better person, start going to church, etc"... but I'm so tired.

This marriage has some pretty severe problems, the bad temper being the
worst. If you don't really want to save it, it doesn't look good. I
don't know that I want to live with someone who had that kind of anger
problem. What's he doing about it?

[whisper]

THAT SCREAMS OF AN ABUSER!!!!

They start by yelling.. then throwing..and it can ( and usually does
escalate to physical violence)

You and your children will be much better off with out him!!!

Kass
"Manna" <etrash4@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e98299f4.0306251941.4936d3b4@posting.google.c om...

I am confused a little, maybe you can help me. You say that his temper is ridiculous. Then for some reason you bring up a fictitious drawing by your son that refers to "you crying after his dad hit you". But then you continue and say that he never hit you. Then what is the relevance of the drawing? Sorry if I wasn't very clear. I posted that very quickly (at work) earlier today.. and I was pretty emotional at the time. LOL Yeah.. he has an awful temper and has on occasion thrown things at me (or just at the walls), punched holes in things, or pushed me.

We're probably both guilty of this.

No, he came over and pushed me down because I got the baby out of the crib and he (the baby) pushed some buttons and changed the settings on his guitar while he was playing it. (I was trying to eat dinner at the time and figured he could watch the child for a few minutes). Thanks!

[Nance]

On 26 Jun 2003 07:43:01 -0700, etrash4@yahoo.com (Manna) wrote:

Anyway, thanks for the advice everyone. Husband and I sat down andtalked about it last night and decided the best thing for the kidswould be for him to go. If once we're apart we decide to try to"start over" from the beginning (dating again after a few monthshiatus) - fine. If not, then that's fine too. We can still be goodparents to our children individually without having to be involved ina relationship with each other.

Good for you!

nance

[Stephanie S]

"Herr Taurus" <gusaufdenkinder@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:k33mfvkj2enq1aq4s2n8pnkpvpmkm02fqo@4ax.com...

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:58:53 GMT, Nance <nancyh@ptd.net> wrote:

Exactly my point. He's seeing it from a child's eyes...and has already turned the '****' into 'hitting' in his mind. He has no concept of the therapeutic value of arguing. And, of course, there was no hitting.

Well, the pushing that she describes in another posts sounds like real ****
to me. Hit, mash into the floor, it's all semantics. You can be your sweet
bippy if someone did physically manipulative things to me - whether or not
they left marks - his *** would be out the door.

Personally, I think parents who subject their children to this kind ofcrap deserve a very special place in hell. I'm not sure what you mean. They live in a family unit...a house. And most arguments are spontaneous. It'd be difficult to separate the kid from that kind of spontaneous happening.

Children should not be subjected to parents physically hurting each other.

I get the impression this has hit on a sore spot for you. I don't condone physical abuse...but I don't think that is the case here.

Why not? Where is your line?

Gus If your parents never had any kids, chances are you won't either!

[Tsam Nami]

Shashay Doofray wrote:

He isn't you - and he never will be. Either LOVE THE MAN YOU MARRIED, without trying to change who he is - or resenting him because he still enjoys the good life, or find a husband that wants the same things that you do. Quit trying to change him. After all, wasn't he like this when you fell in love and married him? Well then, live with it or get out.

But you ignored the stated fact he was not abusive before marriage.

You have only excluded trying to make the marriage safe again? Is this
not possible IYO, or do you believe that is it wrong to challenge a man's
right to physically intimidate his wife during arguments?
--
Tsam

[Bill]

Tsam Nami wrote:

Shashay Doofray wrote:

I would really like to know how many wives *truly* subscribe to this
philosophy. Honestly and truly - and walk the talk. (I'm sorry, but I'll
believe it when I see it).

[Bill]

Bill wrote:

Tsam Nami wrote:

I would really like to know how many wives *truly* subscribe to this philosophy. Honestly and truly - and walk the talk. (I'm sorry, but I'll believe it when I see it).

Nobody has come forth? Aha! :-)

[Bill]

Bill wrote:

Bill wrote:

you

> do. Quit trying to change him. After all, wasn't he like this when you> fell in love and married him? Well then, live with it or get out. I would really like to know how many wives *truly* subscribe to this philosophy. Honestly and truly - and walk the talk. (I'm sorry, but

I'll

believe it when I see it). Nobody has come forth? Aha! :-)

Well y'all, I have to say I'm slightly surprised by the response, or lack
thereof. I thought at least ONE person in here would take me to task and
disagree with this observation.

[Doug Anderson]

"Bill" <none@earthlink.net> writes:

Well y'all, I have to say I'm slightly surprised by the response, or lack thereof. I thought at least ONE person in here would take me to task and disagree with this observation.

It's been a slow day on ASM, so I don't know if the fact that no one
has responded is very significant.

[Stephanie S]

"Bill" <none@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Ka4Ma.19606$C83.1862326@newsread1.prod.itd.ea rthlink.net...

Tsam Nami wrote:

you

do. Quit trying to change him. After all, wasn't he like this when

you

fell in love and married him? Well then, live with it or get out. I would really like to know how many wives *truly* subscribe to this philosophy. Honestly and truly - and walk the talk. (I'm sorry, but

I'll

believe it when I see it).

Or how many husbands. People change. You have to be willing and committed to
changing together, not staying still. The former is workable, the latter
impossible.

S

[Stephanie S]

"Bill" <none@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:SFpMa.21059$C83.1996079@newsread1.prod.itd.ea rthlink.net...

Bill wrote:

MARRIED,

>> without trying to change who he is - or resenting him because he

still

>> enjoys the good life, or find a husband that wants the same things

that

you

you

>> fell in love and married him? Well then, live with it or get out. I would really like to know how many wives *truly* subscribe to this philosophy. Honestly and truly - and walk the talk. (I'm sorry,

but

I'll

Well y'all, I have to say I'm slightly surprised by the response, or lack thereof. I thought at least ONE person in here would take me to task and disagree with this observation.

You just wait a minute... and you will see my post.

S