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Thread: Unfair License Suspension. Please Help.

  1. #1
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    Default Unfair License Suspension. Please Help.

    Hi,

    I got a letter from the Mass RMV that I have had 5 surchargeable
    events while driving in the past 3 years. I had some question about
    the things they had listed:

    1. Two Offenses are on the same date, and one of them is listed as a
    surchargeable Accident and the other as a St. Hway Violation. I'm
    positive that I did not have two separate incidents on one day. So it
    essentially means that I'm getting two incidents for one. Obviously if
    I was at fault for an accident I must've done something wrong but I
    should not be doubly punished for it.

    2. One of the tickets was for an accident more than 3 years ago (Jan
    01 2001). But the conviction date for some reason was listed as more
    than a year later (Feb 2002). And Massachusetts happens to calculate 3
    year periods in regard to conviction dates. This seem rather strange
    to me and almost looks like a scam.

    3. Also, the incident i mentioned in my previous point was on an
    International License, when I had just come to this country. I had a
    Mass ID then (with the same number as my current license) but not a
    Mass License. So it shouldn't count towards incidents that could
    cancel my current license!

    Please advise me what to do, since my hearing date is fast
    approaching. I would appreciate any help on this.

    -Andy


  2. #2
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    Default Unfair License Suspension. Please Help.

    In article <41pmc098q8dvfpial5uru8lqr8sqo1m73q@4ax.com>, Arvinder Singh
    <andy_gunsich@hotmail.com> wrote:
    1. Two Offenses are on the same date, and one of them is listed as a surchargeable Accident and the other as a St. Hway Violation. I'm positive that I did not have two separate incidents on one day. So it essentially means that I'm getting two incidents for one. Obviously if I was at fault for an accident I must've done something wrong but I should not be doubly punished for it.
    You were not double punished. You were punished for two different
    items related to the same incident. You had a chargeable accident,
    and you were issued a traffic ticket in connection with the accident.
    It is very common for the person at fault in an accident to be
    issued one or more tickets. There is nothing unfair about it.
    2. One of the tickets was for an accident more than 3 years ago (Jan 01 2001). But the conviction date for some reason was listed as more than a year later (Feb 2002). And Massachusetts happens to calculate 3 year periods in regard to conviction dates. This seem rather strange to me and almost looks like a scam.
    This is also pretty common. When you are issued a ticket, there
    will be a court date. The first one is usually a hearing. The
    second will be a pre-trail conference. Then the trial will happen.
    After the trial, all the paperwork gets done and recorded. That
    usually takes 4 to 6 months, but if there are any delays or
    extensions, it can take over a year. If you simply sent your money
    in, then I wouldn't expect that it would take this long. It is
    possible that your case was set aside because the prosecutor or
    police officer was ill or otherwise unavilable for a few months.
    It does happen.
    3. Also, the incident i mentioned in my previous point was on an International License, when I had just come to this country. I had a Mass ID then (with the same number as my current license) but not a Mass License. So it shouldn't count towards incidents that could cancel my current license!
    When you have an accident or ticket, it goes on your driving record,
    not your driver license. You have one record no matter if you
    change licenses. The law on revoking a license says that if you
    have so many incidents or points in the past so many months. It
    doesn't matter what kind of license you had.
    Please advise me what to do, since my hearing date is fast approaching. I would appreciate any help on this.
    If your license is worth fighting for, then retain a good traffic
    attorney. You might also be able to negotiate to keep your license
    for work purposes (but not for personal travel), or keep your
    license if you agree to go to a traffic school.

    -john-

    --
    ================================================== ==================
    John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john@johnweeks.com
    Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
    ================================================== ==================


  3. #3
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    Default Unfair License Suspension. Please Help.

    andy_gunsich@hotmail.com (Arvinder Singh) wrote in message
    news:<41pmc098q8dvfpial5uru8lqr8sqo1m73q@4ax.com>. ..
    Hi, I got a letter from the Mass RMV that I have had 5 surchargeable events while driving in the past 3 years. I had some question about the things they had listed: 1. Two Offenses are on the same date, and one of them is listed as a surchargeable Accident and the other as a St. Hway Violation. I'm positive that I did not have two separate incidents on one day. So it essentially means that I'm getting two incidents for one. Obviously if I was at fault for an accident I must've done something wrong but I should not be doubly punished for it.
    I am not a MA lawyer, and the following responses are just based on a
    commonsense gut reaction, but:

    What _did_ you do that day? You don't come right out and say it, but
    it sounds like you had a crash. It's entirely possible for you to be
    charged with 2 or more violations resulting from a single crash. If
    you were, say, (1) speeding, and (2) passing over a double yellow
    line, and (3) driving at night with your lights out when you crashed,
    that could be 3 violations right there. There's no logical reason
    that 1 crash necessarily equals only one violation.
    2. One of the tickets was for an accident more than 3 years ago (Jan 01 2001). But the conviction date for some reason was listed as more than a year later (Feb 2002). And Massachusetts happens to calculate 3 year periods in regard to conviction dates. This seem rather strange to me and almost looks like a scam.
    The conviction date is the date you got convicted. The accident date
    is the date the crash happened. Of course they're different. You
    went to court on this one? Or did you just pay the fine? _When_ did
    you go to court/pay? Obviously, it was some time after the crash
    itself. Sounds like it was over a year later. Are you saying you
    don't recall when your case went to trial and/or resulted in a
    conviction?
    3. Also, the incident i mentioned in my previous point was on an International License, when I had just come to this country. I had a Mass ID then (with the same number as my current license) but not a Mass License. So it shouldn't count towards incidents that could cancel my current license!
    Doesn't matter at all. What they are concerned about is your past
    driving experience and past incidents, not what kind of license (if
    any) you held when those incidents happened. Same result if you had
    no license at all, or one from another USA state.
    Please advise me what to do, since my hearing date is fast approaching. I would appreciate any help on this.
    GET A LAWYER. You obviously need one as you appear to be suffering
    under several serious misconceptions about what is going on and are
    bound to mess things up even worse if you try to represent yourself.
    Good luck,


    --
    This posting is for discussion purposes, not professional advice.
    Anything you post on this Newsgroup is public information.
    I am not your lawyer, and you are not my client in any specific legal
    matter.
    For confidential professional advice, consult a lawyer in a private
    communication.

    Mike Jacobs
    LAW OFFICE OF W. MICHAEL JACOBS
    10440 Little Patuxent Pkwy #300
    Columbia, MD 21044
    (tel) 410-740-5685 (fax) 410-740-4300


  4. #4
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    Default Unfair License Suspension. Please Help.

    In article <41pmc098q8dvfpial5uru8lqr8sqo1m73q@4ax.com>,
    Arvinder Singh <andy_gunsich@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Hi,I got a letter from the Mass RMV that I have had 5 surchargeableevents while driving in the past 3 years. I had some question aboutthe things they had listed:1. Two Offenses are on the same date, and one of them is listed as asurchargeable Accident and the other as a St. Hway Violation. I'mpositive that I did not have two separate incidents on one day. So itessentially means that I'm getting two incidents for one. Obviously ifI was at fault for an accident I must've done something wrong but Ishould not be doubly punished for it.
    Sorry.

    If you make multiple errors, you _can_ be punished for *each* one.
    2. One of the tickets was for an accident more than 3 years ago (Jan01 2001). But the conviction date for some reason was listed as morethan a year later (Feb 2002). And Massachusetts happens to calculate 3year periods in regard to conviction dates. This seem rather strangeto me and almost looks like a scam.
    I'll suggest that maybe you were a 'no show' on the original court date.
    And that they waited for a period for you to straighten things out. Which
    you did _not_ do.

    It _is_ possible that it it a typo -- when _was_ the conviction, and when
    did you _pay_ the penalty. And do you have any proof of that payment?
    3. Also, the incident i mentioned in my previous point was on anInternational License, when I had just come to this country. I had aMass ID then (with the same number as my current license) but not aMass License. So it shouldn't count towards incidents that couldcancel my current license!
    Why not? You _did_ it. It is _your_ driving history that is in question,
    not that of the piece of paper.

    Please advise me what to do, since my hearing date is fastapproaching.

    Get a bicycle, maybe?




  5. #5
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    Default Unfair License Suspension. Please Help.

    >Hi,
    I got a letter from the Mass RMV that I have had 5 surchargeableevents while driving in the past 3 years. I had some question aboutthe things they had listed:
    Were these charges on a CDL? I don't know about Massachusetts, but in my
    state, on a regular D/L you would have gotten a warning letter but not a
    suspension.....unless it was on a CDL......
    1. Two Offenses are on the same date, and one of them is listed as asurchargeable Accident and the other as a St. Hway Violation. I'mpositive that I did not have two separate incidents on one day. So itessentially means that I'm getting two incidents for one. Obviously ifI was at fault for an accident I must've done something wrong but Ishould not be doubly punished for it.
    It is routine to write more than one citation on a crash if more than one
    violation contributed to the crash; speeding and unsafe lane change, for
    example
    2. One of the tickets was for an accident more than 3 years ago (Jan01 2001). But the conviction date for some reason was listed as morethan a year later (Feb 2002). And Massachusetts happens to calculate 3year periods in regard to conviction dates. This seem rather strangeto me and almost looks like a scam.
    There is a time lag from when the crash occurs until you are convicted for
    any violations. The State DMV has to use the date of conviction to
    calculate points......
    3. Also, the incident i mentioned in my previous point was on anInternational License, when I had just come to this country. I had aMass ID then (with the same number as my current license) but not aMass License. So it shouldn't count towards incidents that couldcancel my current license!
    It doesn't matter which license you have violations against, they carry over
    to any new licenses you may get....it isn't the license that's causing the
    problem, it's the person.....
    Please advise me what to do, since my hearing date is fastapproaching. I would appreciate any help on this.
    -Andy
    1st....get a lawyer.....NO ONE here on this NG can give you any VALID advice
    because we don't know the circumstances
    2nd....you are a hazard on our highways....quit driving until you know our
    laws.....how many crashes and violations do you think Massachusetts should
    allow you to have????


  6. #6
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    Default Unfair License Suspension. Please Help.

    andy_gunsich@hotmail.com (Arvinder Singh) wrote in message
    news:<41pmc098q8dvfpial5uru8lqr8sqo1m73q@4ax.com>. ..
    2. One of the tickets was for an accident more than 3 years ago (Jan 01 2001). But the conviction date for some reason was listed as more than a year later (Feb 2002). And Massachusetts happens to calculate 3 year periods in regard to conviction dates. This seem rather strange to me and almost looks like a scam.
    Many, most, perhaps all, states do that. I have an unpaid ticket from
    NYC dating from 1970. If I were to pay it today it would count as
    points against me in NY. However, I haven't lived in NY since 1972 or
    in the US since 1973, so it's a moot point.
    3. Also, the incident i mentioned in my previous point was on an International License ... So it shouldn't count towards incidents that could cancel my current license!
    Even if you had no license at all, the offense would count against
    your MA record. International licenses are not licenses per se, but
    translations of a valid foreign license.
    http://www.oregondmv.com/DriverLicen...pv_internl.htm


  7. #7
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    Default Unfair License Suspension. Please Help.

    Arvinder Singh wrote:
    Hi, I got a letter from the Mass RMV that I have had 5 surchargeable events while driving in the past 3 years. I had some question about the things they had listed: 1. Two Offenses are on the same date, and one of them is listed as a surchargeable Accident and the other as a St. Hway Violation. I'm positive that I did not have two separate incidents on one day. So it essentially means that I'm getting two incidents for one. Obviously if I was at fault for an accident I must've done something wrong but I should not be doubly punished for it.
    What you think doesn't matter. If under the rules an accident is one and
    the violation is two, then it's two.
    2. One of the tickets was for an accident more than 3 years ago (Jan 01 2001). But the conviction date for some reason was listed as more than a year later (Feb 2002). And Massachusetts happens to calculate 3 year periods in regard to conviction dates. This seem rather strange to me and almost looks like a scam.
    If you just pled and paid, conviction likely is the date that the
    judgment was signed by the judge. I would have expected it to be based
    on the date of offense, but if you say that's how they do it... If you
    pled and paid promptly after the violation, you might argue that the
    conviction was unreasonably delayed. But I'd sure have paperwork from
    the court to prove it.
    3. Also, the incident i mentioned in my previous point was on an International License, when I had just come to this country. I had a Mass ID then (with the same number as my current license) but not a Mass License. So it shouldn't count towards incidents that could cancel my current license!
    There's no "international drivers license". There *are* various
    documents issued by various organization or greater or much lesser
    credibility that purport to show that you have a license in another
    country. (And a conciderable business of scamming ******s who think
    their "international license" is a drivers license.) Whether or not
    violations prior to obtaining a Mass license are counted is up to Mass.

    --
    Gerald Clough
    "Nothing has any value, unless you know you can give it up."


  8. #8
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    Default Unfair License Suspension. Please Help.

    In article <nkvtc0h1q561627ba8l5qunrn5tv1qkv4v@4ax.com>,
    John A. Weeks III <john@johnweeks.com> wrote:
    In article <41pmc098q8dvfpial5uru8lqr8sqo1m73q@4ax.com>, Arvinder Singh<andy_gunsich@hotmail.com> wrote:
    1. Two Offenses are on the same date, and one of them is listed as a surchargeable Accident and the other as a St. Hway Violation. I'm positive that I did not have two separate incidents on one day. So it essentially means that I'm getting two incidents for one. Obviously if I was at fault for an accident I must've done something wrong but I should not be doubly punished for it.
    You were not double punished. You were punished for two differentitems related to the same incident. You had a chargeable accident,and you were issued a traffic ticket in connection with the accident.It is very common for the person at fault in an accident to beissued one or more tickets. There is nothing unfair about it.
    But in most jurisdictions when multiple violations arise out of
    the same incident only the most serious is counted. Massachusetts
    does follow this rule for insurance surcharges -- the state highway
    (regulation) violation should not have affected the original poster's
    insurance rates if it arose from the same incident as the accident,
    because an at-fault accident is 3 or 4 points and a ticket is only 2.
    License suspensions are based on a count of "surchargeable incidents",
    i.e. incidents for which regulations require an insurance surcharge.

    The question is: do two incidents which are merged when calculating
    the insurance surcharge nevertheless count separately for the closely
    related license suspension process? I don't know. This is an issue
    that can properly be raised at the hearing.

    3. Also, the incident i mentioned in my previous point was on an International License, when I had just come to this country. I had a Mass ID then (with the same number as my current license) but not a Mass License. So it shouldn't count towards incidents that could cancel my current license!When you have an accident or ticket, it goes on your driving record,not your driver license. You have one record no matter if youchange licenses. The law on revoking a license says that if youhave so many incidents or points in the past so many months. Itdoesn't matter what kind of license you had.
    Massachusetts law is not nearly that simple because incidents
    (for purposes of the law in question) are defined by insurance
    regulations. For example, if you have an at-fault accident it
    can be advantageous to pay for repairs privately because the
    accident doesn't go on your record that way.

    Please advise me what to do, since my hearing date is fast approaching. I would appreciate any help on this.If your license is worth fighting for, then retain a good trafficattorney. You might also be able to negotiate to keep your licensefor work purposes (but not for personal travel), or keep yourlicense if you agree to go to a traffic school.
    State law requires traffic school at five incidents and license
    suspension at seven. The RMV rarely suspends a license unless
    suspension is required by law or requested by a police officer.


    --
    John Carr (jfc@mit.edu)


  9. #9
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    Join Date
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    Default Unfair License Suspension. Please Help.

    >
    Please advise me what to do, since my hearing date is fast approaching. I would appreciate any help on this. -Andy
    Since I live in MA, and my wife and I have to drive here, we know how
    difficult it is to get your license revoked. You must have done some
    awful stuff, because there are terrible drivers around here who still
    have licenses.

    I'd prefer and recommend that you

    1) Take a cab
    2) Ride a bike
    3) Get a ride
    4) Walk
    5) Take the T
    6) Move to Texas or some other place where you can decimate
    Republicans instead of the good people of Massachusetts.

    Vin


  10. #10
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    Join Date
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    Default Unfair License Suspension. Please Help.

    On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:55:10 -0400, mjacobslaw@comcast.net (Michael Jacobs)
    wrote:
    1. Two Offenses are on the same date, and one of them is listed as a surchargeable Accident and the other as a St. Hway Violation. I'm positive that I did not have two separate incidents on one day. So it essentially means that I'm getting two incidents for one. Obviously if I was at fault for an accident I must've done something wrong but I should not be doubly punished for it.
    I am not a MA lawyer, and the following responses are just based on acommonsense gut reaction, but:
    What _did_ you do that day? You don't come right out and say it, butit sounds like you had a crash. It's entirely possible for you to becharged with 2 or more violations resulting from a single crash. Ifyou were, say, (1) speeding, and (2) passing over a double yellowline, and (3) driving at night with your lights out when you crashed,that could be 3 violations right there. There's no logical reasonthat 1 crash necessarily equals only one violation.
    Think Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar.

    Cop: "You know why I pulled you over?"
    Fletcher: "Depends on how long you were following me."
    Cop: "Why don't we just take it from the top?"
    Fletcher: "Here goes...I sped, I followed too closely, I ran a stop sign, I
    almost hit a Chevy, I sped some more, I failed to yield at a cross-walk, I
    changed lanes in the intersection, I changed lanes without signalling while
    running a red light and speeding."
    Cop: "Is that all?"
    Fletcher: "No. I have unpaid parking tickets. Aargh. Be gentle!"


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