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Thread: Government Goons Murder Puppies

  1. #1
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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies

    Reason
    April 2006
    Government Goons Murder Puppies!
    The drug war goes to the dogs.
    by Radley Balko
    <selections>
    http://www.reason.com/0604/co.rb.rant.shtml

    In the course of researching paramilitary drug raids, I've found some
    pretty disturbing stuff. There was a case where a SWAT officer stepped
    on a baby's head while looking for drugs in a drop ceiling. There was
    one where an 11-year-old boy was shot at point-blank range [In the
    back--TQ]. Police have broken down doors, screamed obscenities, and held
    innocent people at gunpoint only to discover that what they thought were
    marijuana plants were really sunflowers, hibiscus, ragweed, tomatoes, or
    elderberry bushes. (It's happened with all five.)

    Yet among hundreds of botched raids, the ones that get me most worked up
    are the ones where the SWAT officers shoot and kill the family dog.
    ...
    One of the most appalling cases occurred in Maricopa County, Arizona,
    the home of Joe Arpaio, self-proclaimed "toughest sheriff in America."
    In 2004 one of Arpaio's SWAT teams conducted a bumbling raid in a
    Phoenix suburb. Among other weapons, it used tear gas and an armored
    personnel carrier that later rolled down the street and smashed into a
    car. The operation ended with the targeted home in flames and exactly
    one suspect in custody -- for outstanding traffic violations.

    But for all that, the image that sticks in your head, as described by
    John Dougherty in the alternative weekly Phoenix New Times, is that of a
    puppy trying to escape the fire and a SWAT officer chasing him back into
    the burning building with puffs from a fire extinguisher. The dog burned
    to death.

    In a massive 1998 raid at a San Francisco housing co-op, cops shot a
    family dog in front of its family, then dragged it outside and shot it
    again.

    When police in Fremont, California, raided the home of medical marijuana
    patient Robert Filgo, they shot his pet Akita nine times. Filgo himself
    was never charged.

    Last October police in Alabama raided a home on suspicion of marijuana
    possession, shot and killed both family dogs, then joked about the kill
    in front of the family. They seized eight grams of marijuana, equal in
    weight to a ketchup packet.

    In January a cop en route to a drug raid in Tampa, Florida, took a short
    cut across a neighboring lawn and shot the neighbor's two pooches on his
    way. And last May, an officer in Syracuse, New York, squeezed off
    several shots at a family dog during a drug raid, one of which
    ricocheted and struck a 13-year-old boy in the leg. The boy was
    handcuffed at gunpoint at the time.
    ...
    Radley Balko is a policy analyst with the Cato Institute.

    http://www.reason.com/0604/co.rb.rant.shtml
    --


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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies


    "Topquark" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:z8WdndWcouH25tzZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@rcn.net...
    In a massive 1998 raid at a San Francisco housing co-op, cops shot a family dog in front of its family, then dragged it outside and shot it again.
    I remember this incident, and the above depiction is ludicrous. A little
    googling for the details...

    This was at a federal housing project, not a co-op,in the Western Addition;
    the writer's confusion comes from the Martin Luther King Jr./Marcus Garvey
    Cooperative. That dog wasn't a family pet, any more than the apartment was a
    family's home, it was used by a gang known as the Knock Out Posse as a
    storefront. The dog was a pit bull, and the raid was on an apartment that
    was being used to sell large quantities of illegal drugs. The police had
    been running surveillance on the place, and already were wary of that dog.

    To give you an idea of the size of the operation, the raid netted a pound
    of pot and a quarter of a pound of crack. They arrested 11 people in that
    apartment when the bust went down, and between them they had seven pistols.

    Source:
    http://www.sfbg.com/News/33/07/Features/cops.html

    Rather a different light than the innocuous little sentence above, eh?

    Bonus points: while you're whining about some dead pet, I guess it doesn't
    bother you quite so much when actual human beings get killed, in these same
    raids. Your post cited a story of a baby getting it's head stepped on and
    crushed, and yet it's the story of the *dog* that sticks in your mind?

    Guess you've had a little more experience with puppies than babies, and
    don't have much imagination. How sad.

    The very same year of this incident you cite, here in the same city of San
    Francisco, a drug bust went bad in which the SFPD 17 year old Sheila Detoy.
    You want to lament a useless death by police making a drug bust, here you
    go:
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...3/NEWS1911.dtl

    Bit sadder than some drug dealer's pet getting shot during the bust, don't
    you think?


    Bo Raxo






  3. #3
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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies


    "Topquark" <nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:z8WdndWcouH25tzZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@rcn.net...
    In a massive 1998 raid at a San Francisco housing co-op, cops shot a family dog in front of its family, then dragged it outside and shot it again.
    I remember this incident, and the above depiction is ludicrous. A little
    googling for the details...

    This was at a federal housing project, not a co-op,in the Western Addition;
    the writer's confusion comes from the Martin Luther King Jr./Marcus Garvey
    Cooperative. That dog wasn't a family pet, any more than the apartment was a
    family's home, it was used by a gang known as the Knock Out Posse as a
    storefront. The dog was a pit bull, and the raid was on an apartment that
    was being used to sell large quantities of illegal drugs. The police had
    been running surveillance on the place, and already were wary of that dog.

    To give you an idea of the size of the operation, the raid netted a pound
    of pot and a quarter of a pound of crack. They arrested 11 people in that
    apartment when the bust went down, and between them they had seven pistols.

    Source:
    http://www.sfbg.com/News/33/07/Features/cops.html

    Rather a different light than the innocuous little sentence above, eh?

    Bonus points: while you're whining about some dead pet, I guess it doesn't
    bother you quite so much when actual human beings get killed, in these same
    raids. Your post cited a story of a baby getting it's head stepped on and
    crushed, and yet it's the story of the *dog* that sticks in your mind?

    Guess you've had a little more experience with puppies than babies, and
    don't have much imagination. How sad.

    The very same year of this incident you cite, here in the same city of San
    Francisco, a drug bust went bad in which the SFPD 17 year old Sheila Detoy.
    You want to lament a useless death by police making a drug bust, here you
    go:
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...3/NEWS1911.dtl

    Bit sadder than some drug dealer's pet getting shot during the bust, don't
    you think?


    Bo Raxo






  4. #4
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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies

    so, start killing cops, problem solved



  5. #5
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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies

    so, start killing cops, problem solved



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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies


    "SgtMinor" <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote in message
    news:t82dnb67_8FjA9zZRVn-vw@comcast.com...
    How can a person, on the same hand, consider the war on drugs a failure - a moral judgment based on result rather than intent; it's a war on people's liberty for pete's sake! - and still think the grams per cop idea is ludicrous?
    Because it's a stupid measure, apart from the intrinsic worth (or lack
    thereof) of the thing being measured.
    With "zero tolerance" an operational standard in many jurisdictions, any citizen could be busted, with cause. If he carried cash, American folding money, that is. http://www.snopes.com/business/money/cocaine.asp The whole thing is a scam, and whether the cops shoot pit bulls, snakes, kittens, or people, it is all pathetic. Brave, new, 1984 pathetic.
    Here's the distinction you're missing: mission and execution.

    They're two different things.

    The whole mission, trying to wipe out illegal drug use by wiping out the
    middlemen - is doomed to failure. That's a fact. Wish I could get rid of
    the whole thing, and guess what, many of those cops who are on those raids
    wish we could, too. It would stop funding the gangs that are the problems
    in housing projects like these.

    But those drug laws are a fact. And so if you're going to fight the gangs -
    and the SFPD is smart enough to know they should - then you have to fight
    the drug stashes, the dealing, the profit centers for the gangs. That's how
    it works.

    So you want to see the raids executed well, in a smart way. Was this one?
    Maybe not, but the Bay Guardian which I took that article from is a very
    liberal paper and tends to take a very critical view of police operations.
    I seem to recall from following the story at the time that it was a big
    raid, but then you want several cops per gun when you're taking down a big
    armed crew. Was it done right? I don't know. But do I blame the cops
    themselves for having to do it at all?

    No.

    So you see, two different issues. It's childish to conflate them, as you
    seem intent on doing.


    Bo Raxo



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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies


    "SgtMinor" <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote in message
    news:t82dnb67_8FjA9zZRVn-vw@comcast.com...
    How can a person, on the same hand, consider the war on drugs a failure - a moral judgment based on result rather than intent; it's a war on people's liberty for pete's sake! - and still think the grams per cop idea is ludicrous?
    Because it's a stupid measure, apart from the intrinsic worth (or lack
    thereof) of the thing being measured.
    With "zero tolerance" an operational standard in many jurisdictions, any citizen could be busted, with cause. If he carried cash, American folding money, that is. http://www.snopes.com/business/money/cocaine.asp The whole thing is a scam, and whether the cops shoot pit bulls, snakes, kittens, or people, it is all pathetic. Brave, new, 1984 pathetic.
    Here's the distinction you're missing: mission and execution.

    They're two different things.

    The whole mission, trying to wipe out illegal drug use by wiping out the
    middlemen - is doomed to failure. That's a fact. Wish I could get rid of
    the whole thing, and guess what, many of those cops who are on those raids
    wish we could, too. It would stop funding the gangs that are the problems
    in housing projects like these.

    But those drug laws are a fact. And so if you're going to fight the gangs -
    and the SFPD is smart enough to know they should - then you have to fight
    the drug stashes, the dealing, the profit centers for the gangs. That's how
    it works.

    So you want to see the raids executed well, in a smart way. Was this one?
    Maybe not, but the Bay Guardian which I took that article from is a very
    liberal paper and tends to take a very critical view of police operations.
    I seem to recall from following the story at the time that it was a big
    raid, but then you want several cops per gun when you're taking down a big
    armed crew. Was it done right? I don't know. But do I blame the cops
    themselves for having to do it at all?

    No.

    So you see, two different issues. It's childish to conflate them, as you
    seem intent on doing.


    Bo Raxo



  8. #8
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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies

    In article <eJOdnXfG7PznENzZRVn-qg@comcast.com>,
    SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote:
    To give you an idea of the size of the operation, the raid netted a pound
    of pot and a quarter of a pound of crack. They arrested 11 people in that apartment when the bust went down, and between them they had seven pistols.
    Wow, a whole pound of marijuana, and 4 ounces of crack. Yes sir, that certainly justified ninety cops busting in the doors of mostly innocent people asleep in their beds. That's a net win of five grams of weed and one-and-a-half grams of crack per cop. A great return on investment.
    Four ounces of crack equals 110-115 grams. Which equals around
    110-115 hits, depending on the price, let's say twenty dollars per gram
    probably more, that is around twenty two hundred to twenty three hundred
    dollars. Along with seven guns and a a pound of pot is worth at least
    two thousand, that shows that whoever apartment was raided, they weren't
    keeping this for home use.

    I don't believe in reign of terrors, whether it is SWAT teams or
    drug gangs, but at least the SWAT teams are much more accountable than
    Drug Gangs.

    -c

  9. #9
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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies

    In article <eJOdnXfG7PznENzZRVn-qg@comcast.com>,
    SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote:
    To give you an idea of the size of the operation, the raid netted a pound
    of pot and a quarter of a pound of crack. They arrested 11 people in that apartment when the bust went down, and between them they had seven pistols.
    Wow, a whole pound of marijuana, and 4 ounces of crack. Yes sir, that certainly justified ninety cops busting in the doors of mostly innocent people asleep in their beds. That's a net win of five grams of weed and one-and-a-half grams of crack per cop. A great return on investment.
    Four ounces of crack equals 110-115 grams. Which equals around
    110-115 hits, depending on the price, let's say twenty dollars per gram
    probably more, that is around twenty two hundred to twenty three hundred
    dollars. Along with seven guns and a a pound of pot is worth at least
    two thousand, that shows that whoever apartment was raided, they weren't
    keeping this for home use.

    I don't believe in reign of terrors, whether it is SWAT teams or
    drug gangs, but at least the SWAT teams are much more accountable than
    Drug Gangs.

    -c

  10. #10
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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies

    comadreja wrote:
    In article <eJOdnXfG7PznENzZRVn-qg@comcast.com>, SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote:
    To give you an idea of the size of the operation, the raid netted a pound
    of pot and a quarter of a pound of crack. They arrested 11 people in thatapartment when the bust went down, and between them they had seven pistols.
    Wow, a whole pound of marijuana, and 4 ounces of crack. Yes sir,that certainly justified ninety cops busting in the doors ofmostly innocent people asleep in their beds.That's a net win of five grams of weed and one-and-a-half grams ofcrack per cop. A great return on investment.
    Four ounces of crack equals 110-115 grams. Which equals around 110-115 hits, depending on the price, let's say twenty dollars per gram probably more, that is around twenty two hundred to twenty three hundred dollars. Along with seven guns and a a pound of pot is worth at least two thousand, that shows that whoever apartment was raided, they weren't keeping this for home use.
    What would be the "worth" of this stuff if there were no laws to
    prohibit it? Are you aware of any underground trafficking in
    dried celery, nutmeg or pepper?

    It is to the advantage of the ruling classes to outlaw as many
    normal human behaviors as they can get away with. And with zero
    tolerance, beware. As I suggested elsewhere in this post, if you
    carry US currency, you carry cocaine.

    As far as the math goes, let's say there was 5400 dollars worth of
    stuff, it would still be only 60 bucks per cop. And it would
    accomplish nothing except getting a whole bunch of innocent people
    mad as hell.

    Is this really a legal matter? Did we learn anything from
    Prohibition? By outlawing, and policing this market we increase
    transaction costs, thereby raising prices. This invites criminal
    activity, some of which takes place within, and corrupts, the system.
    I don't believe in reign of terrors, whether it is SWAT teams or drug gangs, but at least the SWAT teams are much more accountable than Drug Gangs. -c

  11. #11
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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies

    comadreja wrote:
    In article <eJOdnXfG7PznENzZRVn-qg@comcast.com>, SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote:
    To give you an idea of the size of the operation, the raid netted a pound
    of pot and a quarter of a pound of crack. They arrested 11 people in thatapartment when the bust went down, and between them they had seven pistols.
    Wow, a whole pound of marijuana, and 4 ounces of crack. Yes sir,that certainly justified ninety cops busting in the doors ofmostly innocent people asleep in their beds.That's a net win of five grams of weed and one-and-a-half grams ofcrack per cop. A great return on investment.
    Four ounces of crack equals 110-115 grams. Which equals around 110-115 hits, depending on the price, let's say twenty dollars per gram probably more, that is around twenty two hundred to twenty three hundred dollars. Along with seven guns and a a pound of pot is worth at least two thousand, that shows that whoever apartment was raided, they weren't keeping this for home use.
    What would be the "worth" of this stuff if there were no laws to
    prohibit it? Are you aware of any underground trafficking in
    dried celery, nutmeg or pepper?

    It is to the advantage of the ruling classes to outlaw as many
    normal human behaviors as they can get away with. And with zero
    tolerance, beware. As I suggested elsewhere in this post, if you
    carry US currency, you carry cocaine.

    As far as the math goes, let's say there was 5400 dollars worth of
    stuff, it would still be only 60 bucks per cop. And it would
    accomplish nothing except getting a whole bunch of innocent people
    mad as hell.

    Is this really a legal matter? Did we learn anything from
    Prohibition? By outlawing, and policing this market we increase
    transaction costs, thereby raising prices. This invites criminal
    activity, some of which takes place within, and corrupts, the system.
    I don't believe in reign of terrors, whether it is SWAT teams or drug gangs, but at least the SWAT teams are much more accountable than Drug Gangs. -c

  12. #12
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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies

    In article <r7KdnW_txronJdzZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
    SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote:
    comadreja wrote:
    In article <eJOdnXfG7PznENzZRVn-qg@comcast.com>, SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote:
    To give you an idea of the size of the operation, the raid netted a pound>of pot and a quarter of a pound of crack. They arrested 11 people in that>apartment when the bust went down, and between them they had seven pistols.>Wow, a whole pound of marijuana, and 4 ounces of crack. Yes sir,that certainly justified ninety cops busting in the doors ofmostly innocent people asleep in their beds.That's a net win of five grams of weed and one-and-a-half grams ofcrack per cop. A great return on investment.
    Four ounces of crack equals 110-115 grams. Which equals around 110-115 hits, depending on the price, let's say twenty dollars per gram probably more, that is around twenty two hundred to twenty three hundred dollars. Along with seven guns and a a pound of pot is worth at least two thousand, that shows that whoever apartment was raided, they weren't keeping this for home use.
    What would be the "worth" of this stuff if there were no laws to prohibit it? Are you aware of any underground trafficking in dried celery, nutmeg or pepper?
    Once upon a time, countries would enslave races, slaughter innocent
    people, built empires on slaves and indentured servants, fought
    countless war to get to coveted spices like nutmeg, cinnamon, cloves.
    The word "Salary" is derived from the "Salt", which showed that before
    refrigeration, what was essential in any household. So yes, if they are
    rare, people will coveted and pay a high price to put nutmeg on their
    pumpkin pie.

    It is to the advantage of the ruling classes to outlaw as many normal human behaviors as they can get away with. And with zero tolerance, beware. As I suggested elsewhere in this post, if you carry US currency, you carry cocaine.
    There is also a river in Northern Italy that has high amount cocaine in
    the water, but because demand makes it high, doesn't make it right, or
    less evil drug, or the evilness that comes in its production. Columbia
    doesn't have the highest murder rate in the world out of the blue.
    As far as the math goes, let's say there was 5400 dollars worth of stuff, it would still be only 60 bucks per cop. And it would accomplish nothing except getting a whole bunch of innocent people mad as hell.
    Eleven arrest, and seven guns, four ounces of crack, a pound of pot,
    which isn't exactly a small amount. Perhaps, some people were in the
    wrong place at the wrong time, but it seems they caught someone up to no
    good. Anyway, Drug dealers aren't known for their Gandhi like ways.
    SWAT teams have to use overwhelming force in raids like this, in close
    quarters, the last thing anyone wants is an uncontrolled gun battle in
    close quarters with alot of other people in the area. Personally I
    think SWAT teams should have more firepower, and there should be
    restrictive laws on hollow point bullets and teflon coated bullets to
    the general public.
    Is this really a legal matter? Did we learn anything from Prohibition? By outlawing, and policing this market we increase transaction costs, thereby raising prices. This invites criminal activity, some of which takes place within, and corrupts, the system.
    I think some drug laws need to be reformed, especially ones
    concerning cannabis. I am even for some strict regulation of heroin,
    rather than its outright ban in the US, because heroin metabolizes into
    morphine in the body, and there are some many opium derivatives strictly
    controlled but legal. Fentanyl is a schedule II substance, which is more
    powerful than heroin for example. However, I draw the line with
    cocaine. The cartels that control it are evil organizations, and there
    should nothing to legitimize them.

    Even if heroin and cocaine were made legal, the cartels that control
    them will still be as territorial, violent and a law on themselves. The
    end of prohibition didn't get rid of the mafia, they just went into
    other markets like heroin and prostitution.

  13. #13
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    Default Government Goons Murder Puppies

    In article <r7KdnW_txronJdzZnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
    SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote:
    comadreja wrote:
    In article <eJOdnXfG7PznENzZRVn-qg@comcast.com>, SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote:
    To give you an idea of the size of the operation, the raid netted a pound>of pot and a quarter of a pound of crack. They arrested 11 people in that>apartment when the bust went down, and between them they had seven pistols.>Wow, a whole pound of marijuana, and 4 ounces of crack. Yes sir,that certainly justified ninety cops busting in the doors ofmostly innocent people asleep in their beds.That's a net win of five grams of weed and one-and-a-half grams ofcrack per cop. A great return on investment.
    Four ounces of crack equals 110-115 grams. Which equals around 110-115 hits, depending on the price, let's say twenty dollars per gram probably more, that is around twenty two hundred to twenty three hundred dollars. Along with seven guns and a a pound of pot is worth at least two thousand, that shows that whoever apartment was raided, they weren't keeping this for home use.
    What would be the "worth" of this stuff if there were no laws to prohibit it? Are you aware of any underground trafficking in dried celery, nutmeg or pepper?
    Once upon a time, countries would enslave races, slaughter innocent
    people, built empires on slaves and indentured servants, fought
    countless war to get to coveted spices like nutmeg, cinnamon, cloves.
    The word "Salary" is derived from the "Salt", which showed that before
    refrigeration, what was essential in any household. So yes, if they are
    rare, people will coveted and pay a high price to put nutmeg on their
    pumpkin pie.

    It is to the advantage of the ruling classes to outlaw as many normal human behaviors as they can get away with. And with zero tolerance, beware. As I suggested elsewhere in this post, if you carry US currency, you carry cocaine.
    There is also a river in Northern Italy that has high amount cocaine in
    the water, but because demand makes it high, doesn't make it right, or
    less evil drug, or the evilness that comes in its production. Columbia
    doesn't have the highest murder rate in the world out of the blue.
    As far as the math goes, let's say there was 5400 dollars worth of stuff, it would still be only 60 bucks per cop. And it would accomplish nothing except getting a whole bunch of innocent people mad as hell.
    Eleven arrest, and seven guns, four ounces of crack, a pound of pot,
    which isn't exactly a small amount. Perhaps, some people were in the
    wrong place at the wrong time, but it seems they caught someone up to no
    good. Anyway, Drug dealers aren't known for their Gandhi like ways.
    SWAT teams have to use overwhelming force in raids like this, in close
    quarters, the last thing anyone wants is an uncontrolled gun battle in
    close quarters with alot of other people in the area. Personally I
    think SWAT teams should have more firepower, and there should be
    restrictive laws on hollow point bullets and teflon coated bullets to
    the general public.
    Is this really a legal matter? Did we learn anything from Prohibition? By outlawing, and policing this market we increase transaction costs, thereby raising prices. This invites criminal activity, some of which takes place within, and corrupts, the system.
    I think some drug laws need to be reformed, especially ones
    concerning cannabis. I am even for some strict regulation of heroin,
    rather than its outright ban in the US, because heroin metabolizes into
    morphine in the body, and there are some many opium derivatives strictly
    controlled but legal. Fentanyl is a schedule II substance, which is more
    powerful than heroin for example. However, I draw the line with
    cocaine. The cartels that control it are evil organizations, and there
    should nothing to legitimize them.

    Even if heroin and cocaine were made legal, the cartels that control
    them will still be as territorial, violent and a law on themselves. The
    end of prohibition didn't get rid of the mafia, they just went into
    other markets like heroin and prostitution.

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