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  • Mark Mc
    started a topic US Immigration out of control

    US Immigration out of control

    Below are the FACTS regarding U.S. immigration. If you take a few
    minutes to read this message you'll know more about immigration and
    what it's costing you than 99% of your fellow citizens. Please copy
    this information and email it to as many of your friends as possible.
    Nothing will happen without pressure being put on Congress and the
    President.

    Problems Of Massive Immigration And What You Can Do About It.

    How much immigration is there?

    The foreign-born population of the U.S. is currently 33 million or 12
    percent of the total U.S. population. Approximately 1.5 million
    immigrants (legal and illegal) settle in the U.S. each year.

    Population Growth

    Under current immigration policy, population growth adds the
    equivalent of a major city the size of Philadelphia every year. The
    annual arrival of 1.5 million legal and illegal immigrants, coupled
    with 750,000 annual births to immigrant women, account for the
    overwhelming majority of U.S. population growth. The U.S population
    will be 400 million by 2050 (80 million larger than without
    immigration).

    Net Cost to Taxpayers

    The National Research Council estimated immigration is costing U.S.
    taxpayers between $11 and $22 billion per year. Immigrants tend to be
    disproportionately low-skilled and thus earn low wages which results
    in low tax payments. At the same time, they consume government
    services in areas such as education, criminal justice, and emergency
    medical care at a high rate, both because of their relative poverty
    and their higher fertility. California alone estimated that the net
    cost to the state of providing government services to illegal
    immigrants was $3 billion per year.

    Quality of Life

    The question that massive immigration presents is less one of space
    and survival than of quality of life. We suffer from increases in
    traffic congestion, school overcrowding, loss of natural habitat,
    destruction of prime farm land, increasing urban sprawl, and the loss
    of scarce tax dollars being used to support immigrants.

    After the massive population growth of the last 50 years, the homes of
    most Americans now are in large urban areas. Each year, because of
    continued population growth, open spaces get farther and farther out
    of reach. Increasingly Americans find the "open spaces" so congested
    they fail to receive the psychological and spiritual refreshment they
    had sought.
    After enormous expenditures to restore and preserve the quality of our
    water, air, eco-systems, and bio-diversity for future generations,
    there have been great improvements. But largely because there are 80
    million more people today flushing toilets, etc, 40% of our lakes and
    streams still don't meet the fishable and swimmable goal

    Every day, urban sprawl gobbles up square miles of prime farmland,
    natural habitat and recreational spaces. Americans are finding all
    cities becoming more and more like New York City and Los Angeles.
    Mid-size cities without big-city traffic jams today cannot long escape
    them. And any smaller cities, towns, and rural areas within 50 miles
    of the present outskirts of a large city are destined to be swallowed
    inside the ever-marching sprawl of the big cities.

    Impact on Urban School Children

    Since 1976, virtually all the increase in urban student enrollments
    has been due to the rise in the number of children of immigrants -
    immigrants who on average don't begin to earn enough money to pay the
    taxes to cover the education costs of their children. Across America,
    school overcrowding threatens the education of millions of children.
    Massive building programs at immense taxpayer costs have not been able
    to keep up.

    Immigration, Poverty and Black Americans

    Poverty in the U.S. is increasingly being caused by immigration
    policy. Immigration increases the supply of labor, reduces wages and
    makes jobs more scarce for natives. Job competition between
    immigrants and natives is especially fierce at the bottom of the labor
    market, because so many immigrants are poorly educated, low-skilled /
    low-wage earners. Black Americans are particularly hard hit since a
    large portion of their population is in competition for these lower
    wage jobs.

    Immigrant Entrepreneurs

    Entrepreneurship of immigrant small businessmen supposedly recharges
    our nation's creative spirit. Unfortunately, research shows that while
    immigrants were once significantly more entrepreneurial than natives,
    that is no longer true.

    Illegal Immigration

    Estimates differ but the Census 2000 results indicated that 700,000 to
    800,000 illegal aliens settle in the U.S. each year, with an estimated
    8-11 million illegal aliens currently living in the United States.
    That total does not include the millions of illegal aliens who were
    awarded amnesty by the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 and
    several other laws.
    The INS estimates that 60 percent of illegal residents entered the
    United States by sneaking across the border, and the remaining 40
    percent entered legally but overstayed their visas. The typical
    Mexican worker earns one-tenth his American counterpart and numerous
    American businesses are willing to hire cheap, compliant labor from
    abroad; such businesses are seldom punished because our country lacks
    a viable system to verify new hires' work eligibility.

    English as our national language

    Heard this lately?. "Press "1" if you speak English." Ten years ago
    you never heard that phrase. In the not too distant future you or
    your children may be hearingÖ"Press "1" if you speak Spanish".

    What has Congress done about this problem?

    Virtually every major poll that has been conducted in the past decade
    finds that a majority of Americans support lower immigration numbers.
    However, Congress seems to have little interest in reducing
    immigration. A recent national poll by the Chicago Council on Foreign
    Relations found a huge gap between the opinions of the American people
    on immigration and those of their leaders. The poll found that 60
    percent of the public regards the present level of immigration to be a
    "critical threat to the vital interests of the United States,"
    compared to only 14 percent of the nation's leadership.
    Since 1986, Congress has passed 7 amnesty laws for illegal aliens.
    [What is Amnesty? Amnesties are laws which forgive the breaking of
    immigration laws and make it possible for illegal aliens to live
    permanently in the United States. Amnesties represent a system of
    federal rewards and assistance for illegal migrants, and they entice
    an even greater number of illegal migrants.]
    Congress has declined to provide the Immigration and Naturalization
    Service (INS) with adequate resources to enforce current immigration
    laws. They have even discouraged enforcement of the laws by the INS.
    Still pending as the 108th Congress opens this month are the
    recommendations of the bi-partisan U.S. Commission on Immigration
    Reform to halt chain migration and the visa lottery and to seriously
    enforce laws against illegal aliens already in the U.S.. Congress
    voted in 1996 to consider those actions in a later session. We're
    still waiting.

    Want to know about the voting record of your Senator or Congressman on
    these issues? Go to this website: -
    http://grades.betterimmigration.com/index.php3

    What needs to be done?

    Change Immigration Laws: We need to change our immigration laws to
    permit only a fraction of the current level of legal immigration.
    Enforce Immigration Laws at Employment Sites: Without enforcement at
    employment sites in the U.S. there is no hope of controlling illegal
    immigration. Instead of spending more and more dollars to support
    immigrants we should be spending more money to enforce immigration
    laws.

    Enforce Immigration Laws at Our Borders: The standard response to
    illegal immigration has been increased border enforcement. And, in
    fact, such tightening of the border is long overdue.

    Please call your Senators' and Congressman and demand action (phone
    numbers in attached document). Please do it now! And forward this
    message to all of your friends. Thank you.

  • Oliver Costich
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:46:50 +0000, Trent
    <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2004 10:38:25 -0700, [email protected] (Jim shedden) wrote:
    schlimmdue <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote in messagenews:<34$261303>> Don't you know that America is the land of the golden> opportunities, and> the land of immigration!!!> A long time ago, your ancestors came to this counrty just like> people do> now, so basically your an immigrant too, if you are not a Native> American!> Think about that before you post these racist comments!Very good point. I think we should ask the native Americans how thelast massive immigration improved their culture and quality of life.We might as well learn from the past for a change.
    Exactly what do you expect to learn from a past long gone, a completely different world?
    Let's do some research, why speculate and argue?
    Yes, do some research on the present and recent past and see whether immigration policy in it's present form is an overall benefit to the US. Pay specail attention to the importation of hoards of cheap labor and its effects on social costs and the market price of unskilled labor.
    JR.
    Hi Oliver!Here's news flash for you, courtesy of FAUX NEWS. Thank youPresident Moron!
    Of course. His campaign contributors need another slug of cheap labor.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trent
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    On 27 Oct 2004 10:38:25 -0700, [email protected] (Jim shedden) wrote:
    schlimmdue <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote in messagenews:<34$261303>
    Don't you know that America is the land of the golden opportunities, and the land of immigration!!! A long time ago, your ancestors came to this counrty just like people do now, so basically your an immigrant too, if you are not a Native American! Think about that before you post these racist comments!
    Very good point. I think we should ask the native Americans how thelast massive immigration improved their culture and quality of life.We might as well learn from the past for a change.
    Exactly what do you expect to learn from a past long gone, a completely different world?
    Let's do some research, why speculate and argue?
    Yes, do some research on the present and recent past and see whether immigration policy in it's present form is an overall benefit to the US. Pay specail attention to the importation of hoards of cheap labor and its effects on social costs and the market price of unskilled labor.
    JR.
    Hi Oliver!

    Here's news flash for you, courtesy of FAUX NEWS. Thank you
    President Moron!

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137984,00.html

    --
    Posted via http://britishexpats.com

    Leave a comment:


  • Oliver Costich
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    On 27 Oct 2004 10:38:25 -0700, [email protected] (Jim
    shedden) wrote:
    schlimmdue <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote in message news:<34$261303>
    Don't you know that America is the land of the golden opportunities, and the land of immigration!!! A long time ago, your ancestors came to this counrty just like people do now, so basically your an immigrant too, if you are not a Native American! Think about that before you post these racist comments!
    Very good point. I think we should ask the native Americans how thelast massive immigration improved their culture and quality of life.We might as well learn from the past for a change.
    Exactly what do you expect to learn from a past long gone, a
    completely different world?
    Let's do some research, why speculate and argue?
    Yes, do some research on the present and recent past and see whether
    immigration policy in it's present form is an overall benefit to the
    US. Pay specail attention to the importation of hoards of cheap labor
    and its effects on social costs and the market price of unskilled
    labor.

    JR.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alun
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    [email protected] (sylviabrowne) wrote in
    news:[email protected] om:
    THE ILLEGAL ALIEN SWING VOTE By Michelle Malkin ∑ October 27, 2004 09:51 AM Column is up. Here's the intro: The right to vote is precious, the politicians preach. Our democracy hangs in the balance, the pundits screech. Yes, but if we all value the sanctity of the voting process so highly, why is it that I've never once been asked to produce identification of any kind in the 16 years I've been a voter, from Ohio to California to Washington state to Maryland? And why is it that we can't protect our elections from people who have no right to vote, no right to be here, and no right to undermine our safety or sovereignty? While unhinged Democrats spread fear about the alleged discriminatory disenfranchisement of American citizens, they have supported the indiscriminate enfranchisement of untold numbers of foreign outlaws -- including suspected al Qaeda operatives and terrorist sympathizers. Last week, the Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch reported that illegal alien Nuradin Abdi -- the suspected shopping mall bomb plotter from Somalia -- was registered to vote in the battleground state of Ohio by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), a left-wing activist group. Also on the Ohio voting rolls: convicted al Qaeda agent Iyman Faris, who planned to sabotage the Brooklyn Bridge and had entered the country fraudulently from Pakistan on a student visa... Rest is here. Oliver Costich <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    On 25 Oct 2004 20:37:22 GMT, Alun <[email protected]> wrote:
    Oliver Costich <[email protected]> wrote innews:lrknn01asidok[email protected]: > On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:14:51 -0700, "Eric and Catherine Back"> <[email protected]> wrote:>>>Decreases in European populations threaten Social Security programs>>there. The US program is similarly underfinanced. It would seem>>that our present investment in immigrantion will be a net gain for>>the future solvency of social security.>>>>Eric>>>>> Only under one assumption, which is false, at least for now. A> large proportion of immigrants are low income and pay little into> social security. Many illegals pay nothing by working off the> books.>> In addition, their demand on social services places additional> burden on the tax base. Since the government doesn't really> segregate social security funds from other tax revenues, the> situation gets even worse. Money that could have been used to> strengthen social security is drained off for other social sevices.> For example, 25% of Californians are on Medical (Medicaid),> exacerbating the problems with the Medicare/Medicaid system.>> Sheer population increase alone isn't going to fix anything. It> strains the systems that supply water and energy and creates> numerous environmemtal problems. Thirty years ago, we were told> that we needed to aim for zero population growth in order to> maintain our standard of living without damaging the environment.> WE were well on the way until the recent immigration wave. If sheer> numbers are the answer, Americans are capable of breeding. The> quality of any population increase has to also be considered, and> that's why immigration policy has to be used to assure that, rather> than to supply an endless source of cheap labor.>> The issue isn't immigration or not, but what kind of immigration.>>>My visa and later my immigration preference required a collegedegree, and yet jobs in my field are still being exported to India tobe done there.
    As are the ones my wife would do. Even many of them here are using H1-Bs, but that's a different immigration issue.
    How is that relevant to what we were discussing? It ought to be pretty easy
    to prevent illegals from registering to vote. That's just an enforcement
    issue. Although it's not well known, aliens can legally vote in a very few
    places in the US. For instance, one city in this state allows aliens to
    vote in city elections. I doubt whether the states have the authority to
    let aliens vote in a federal election, though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim shedden
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    schlimmdue <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote in message news:<34$261303>
    Don't you know that America is the land of the golden opportunities, and the land of immigration!!! A long time ago, your ancestors came to this counrty just like people do now, so basically your an immigrant too, if you are not a Native American! Think about that before you post these racist comments!
    Very good point. I think we should ask the native Americans how the
    last massive immigration improved their culture and quality of life.
    We might as well learn from the past for a change.

    Let's do some research, why speculate and argue?

    JR.

    Leave a comment:


  • sylviabrowne
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    THE ILLEGAL ALIEN SWING VOTE
    By Michelle Malkin ∑ October 27, 2004 09:51 AM
    Column is up. Here's the intro:

    The right to vote is precious, the politicians preach. Our democracy
    hangs in the balance, the pundits screech.
    Yes, but if we all value the sanctity of the voting process so highly,
    why is it that I've never once been asked to produce identification of
    any kind in the 16 years I've been a voter, from Ohio to California to
    Washington state to Maryland?

    And why is it that we can't protect our elections from people who have
    no right to vote, no right to be here, and no right to undermine our
    safety or sovereignty?

    While unhinged Democrats spread fear about the alleged discriminatory
    disenfranchisement of American citizens, they have supported the
    indiscriminate enfranchisement of untold numbers of foreign outlaws --
    including suspected al Qaeda operatives and terrorist sympathizers.

    Last week, the Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch reported that illegal alien
    Nuradin Abdi -- the suspected shopping mall bomb plotter from Somalia
    -- was registered to vote in the battleground state of Ohio by the
    Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), a
    left-wing activist group. Also on the Ohio voting rolls: convicted al
    Qaeda agent Iyman Faris, who planned to sabotage the Brooklyn Bridge
    and had entered the country fraudulently from Pakistan on a student
    visa...


    Rest is here.





    Oliver Costich <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    On 25 Oct 2004 20:37:22 GMT, Alun <[email protected]> wrote:
    Oliver Costich <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected]:
    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:14:51 -0700, "Eric and Catherine Back" <[email protected]> wrote:>Decreases in European populations threaten Social Security programs>there. The US program is similarly underfinanced. It would seem that>our present investment in immigrantion will be a net gain for the>future solvency of social security.>>Eric> Only under one assumption, which is false, at least for now. A large proportion of immigrants are low income and pay little into social security. Many illegals pay nothing by working off the books. In addition, their demand on social services places additional burden on the tax base. Since the government doesn't really segregate social security funds from other tax revenues, the situation gets even worse. Money that could have been used to strengthen social security is drained off for other social sevices. For example, 25% of Californians are on Medical (Medicaid), exacerbating the problems with the Medicare/Medicaid system. Sheer population increase alone isn't going to fix anything. It strains the systems that supply water and energy and creates numerous environmemtal problems. Thirty years ago, we were told that we needed to aim for zero population growth in order to maintain our standard of living without damaging the environment. WE were well on the way until the recent immigration wave. If sheer numbers are the answer, Americans are capable of breeding. The quality of any population increase has to also be considered, and that's why immigration policy has to be used to assure that, rather than to supply an endless source of cheap labor. The issue isn't immigration or not, but what kind of immigration.
    My visa and later my immigration preference required a college degree, andyet jobs in my field are still being exported to India to be done there.
    As are the ones my wife would do. Even many of them here are using H1-Bs, but that's a different immigration issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • sylviabrowne
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    WWW.STOPTHEINVATION.COM







    Oliver Costich <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    On 25 Oct 2004 20:37:22 GMT, Alun <[email protected]> wrote:
    Oliver Costich <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected]:
    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:14:51 -0700, "Eric and Catherine Back" <[email protected]> wrote:>Decreases in European populations threaten Social Security programs>there. The US program is similarly underfinanced. It would seem that>our present investment in immigrantion will be a net gain for the>future solvency of social security.>>Eric> Only under one assumption, which is false, at least for now. A large proportion of immigrants are low income and pay little into social security. Many illegals pay nothing by working off the books. In addition, their demand on social services places additional burden on the tax base. Since the government doesn't really segregate social security funds from other tax revenues, the situation gets even worse. Money that could have been used to strengthen social security is drained off for other social sevices. For example, 25% of Californians are on Medical (Medicaid), exacerbating the problems with the Medicare/Medicaid system. Sheer population increase alone isn't going to fix anything. It strains the systems that supply water and energy and creates numerous environmemtal problems. Thirty years ago, we were told that we needed to aim for zero population growth in order to maintain our standard of living without damaging the environment. WE were well on the way until the recent immigration wave. If sheer numbers are the answer, Americans are capable of breeding. The quality of any population increase has to also be considered, and that's why immigration policy has to be used to assure that, rather than to supply an endless source of cheap labor. The issue isn't immigration or not, but what kind of immigration.
    My visa and later my immigration preference required a college degree, andyet jobs in my field are still being exported to India to be done there.
    As are the ones my wife would do. Even many of them here are using H1-Bs, but that's a different immigration issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • Need$$$
    replied
    Will election period speed up process?

    Will Election period will speed up the process??




    Oliver Costich <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:42:45 +0000, schlimmdue <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote:
    Below are the FACTS regarding U.S. immigration. If you take a few minutes to read this message you'll know more about immigration and what it's costing you than 99% of your fellow citizens. Please copy this information and email it to as many of your friends as possible. Nothing will happen without pressure being put on Congress and the President. Problems Of Massive Immigration And What You Can Do About It. How much immigration is there? The foreign-born population of the U.S. is currently 33 million or 12 percent of the total U.S. population. Approximately 1.5 million immigrants (legal and illegal) settle in the U.S. each year. Population Growth Under current immigration policy, population growth adds the equivalent of a major city the size of Philadelphia every year. The annual arrival of 1.5 million legal and illegal immigrants, coupled with 750,000 annual births to immigrant women, account for the overwhelming majority of U.S. population growth. The U.S population will be 400 million by 2050 (80 million larger than without immigration). Net Cost to Taxpayers The National Research Council estimated immigration is costing U.S. taxpayers between $11 and $22 billion per year. Immigrants tend to be disproportionately low-skilled and thus earn low wages which results in low tax payments. At the same time, they consume government services in areas such as education, criminal justice, and emergency medical care at a high rate, both because of their relative poverty and their higher fertility. California alone estimated that the net cost to the state of providing government services to illegal immigrants was $3 billion per year. Quality of Life The question that massive immigration presents is less one of space and survival than of quality of life. We suffer from increases in traffic congestion, school overcrowding, loss of natural habitat, destruction of prime farm land, increasing urban sprawl, and the loss of scarce tax dollars being used to support immigrants. After the massive population growth of the last 50 years, the homes of most Americans now are in large urban areas. Each year, because of continued population growth, open spaces get farther and farther out of reach. Increasingly Americans find the "open spaces" so congested they fail to receive the psychological and spiritual refreshment they had sought. After enormous expenditures to restore and preserve the quality of our water, air, eco-systems, and bio-diversity for future generations, there have been great improvements. But largely because there are 80 million more people today flushing toilets, etc, 40% of our lakes and streams still don't meet the fishable and swimmable goal Every day, urban sprawl gobbles up square miles of prime farmland, natural habitat and recreational spaces. Americans are finding all cities becoming more and more like New York City and Los Angeles. Mid-size cities without big-city traffic jams today cannot long escape them. And any smaller cities, towns, and rural areas within 50 miles of the present outskirts of a large city are destined to be swallowed inside the ever-marching sprawl of the big cities. Impact on Urban School Children Since 1976, virtually all the increase in urban student enrollments has been due to the rise in the number of children of immigrants - immigrants who on average don't begin to earn enough money to pay the taxes to cover the education costs of their children. Across America, school overcrowding threatens the education of millions of children. Massive building programs at immense taxpayer costs have not been able to keep up. Immigration, Poverty and Black Americans Poverty in the U.S. is increasingly being caused by immigration policy. Immigration increases the supply of labor, reduces wages and makes jobs more scarce for natives. Job competition between immigrants and natives is especially fierce at the bottom of the labor market, because so many immigrants are poorly educated, low-skilled / low-wage earners. Black Americans are particularly hard hit since a large portion of their population is in competition for these lower wage jobs. Immigrant Entrepreneurs Entrepreneurship of immigrant small businessmen supposedly recharges our nation's creative spirit. Unfortunately, research shows that while immigrants were once significantly more entrepreneurial than natives, that is no longer true. Illegal Immigration Estimates differ but the Census 2000 results indicated that 700,000 to 800,000 illegal aliens settle in the U.S. each year, with an estimated 8-11 million illegal aliens currently living in the United States. That total does not include the millions of illegal aliens who were awarded amnesty by the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 and several other laws. The INS estimates that 60 percent of illegal residents entered the United States by sneaking across the border, and the remaining 40 percent entered legally but overstayed their visas. The typical Mexican worker earns one-tenth his American counterpart and numerous American businesses are willing to hire cheap, compliant labor from abroad; such businesses are seldom punished because our country lacks a viable system to verify new hires' work eligibility. English as our national language Heard this lately?. "Press "1" if you speak English." Ten years ago you never heard that phrase. In the not too distant future you or your children may be hearing?"Press "1" if you speak Spanish". What has Congress done about this problem? Virtually every major poll that has been conducted in the past decade finds that a majority of Americans support lower immigration numbers. However, Congress seems to have little interest in reducing immigration. A recent national poll by the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations found a huge gap between the opinions of the American people on immigration and those of their leaders. The poll found that 60 percent of the public regards the present level of immigration to be a "critical threat to the vital interests of the United States," compared to only 14 percent of the nation's leadership. Since 1986, Congress has passed 7 amnesty laws for illegal aliens. [What is Amnesty? Amnesties are laws which forgive the breaking of immigration laws and make it possible for illegal aliens to live permanently in the United States. Amnesties represent a system of federal rewards and assistance for illegal migrants, and they entice an even greater number of illegal migrants.] Congress has declined to provide the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) with adequate resources to enforce current immigration laws. They have even discouraged enforcement of the laws by the INS. Still pending as the 108th Congress opens this month are the recommendations of the bi-partisan U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform to halt chain migration and the visa lottery and to seriously enforce laws against illegal aliens already in the U.S.. Congress voted in 1996 to consider those actions in a later session. We're still waiting. Want to know about the voting record of your Senator or Congressman on these issues? Go to this website: - http://grades.betterimmigration.com/index.php3 What needs to be done? Change Immigration Laws: We need to change our immigration laws to permit only a fraction of the current level of legal immigration. Enforce Immigration Laws at Employment Sites: Without enforcement at employment sites in the U.S. there is no hope of controlling illegal immigration. Instead of spending more and more dollars to support immigrants we should be spending more money to enforce immigration laws. Enforce Immigration Laws at Our Borders: The standard response to illegal immigration has been increased border enforcement. And, in fact, such tightening of the border is long overdue. Please call your Senators' and Congressman and demand action (phone numbers in attached document). Please do it now! And forward this message to all of your friends. Thank you.
    Don't you know that America is the land of the golden opportunities, andthe land of immigration!!!A long time ago, your ancestors came to this counrty just like people donow, so basically your an immigrant too, if you are not a NativeAmerican!
    A few things have changed since then don't you think? I'm weary of this specious argument.
    Think about that before you post these racist comments!
    Race card alert.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oliver Costich
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    On 25 Oct 2004 20:37:22 GMT, Alun <[email protected]> wrote:
    Oliver Costich <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected]:
    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:14:51 -0700, "Eric and Catherine Back" <[email protected]> wrote:
    Decreases in European populations threaten Social Security programsthere. The US program is similarly underfinanced. It would seem thatour present investment in immigrantion will be a net gain for thefuture solvency of social security.Eric
    Only under one assumption, which is false, at least for now. A large proportion of immigrants are low income and pay little into social security. Many illegals pay nothing by working off the books. In addition, their demand on social services places additional burden on the tax base. Since the government doesn't really segregate social security funds from other tax revenues, the situation gets even worse. Money that could have been used to strengthen social security is drained off for other social sevices. For example, 25% of Californians are on Medical (Medicaid), exacerbating the problems with the Medicare/Medicaid system. Sheer population increase alone isn't going to fix anything. It strains the systems that supply water and energy and creates numerous environmemtal problems. Thirty years ago, we were told that we needed to aim for zero population growth in order to maintain our standard of living without damaging the environment. WE were well on the way until the recent immigration wave. If sheer numbers are the answer, Americans are capable of breeding. The quality of any population increase has to also be considered, and that's why immigration policy has to be used to assure that, rather than to supply an endless source of cheap labor. The issue isn't immigration or not, but what kind of immigration.
    My visa and later my immigration preference required a college degree, andyet jobs in my field are still being exported to India to be done there.
    As are the ones my wife would do. Even many of them here are using
    H1-Bs, but that's a different immigration issue.



    Leave a comment:


  • Oliver Costich
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    On 25 Oct 2004 20:28:59 GMT, Alun <[email protected]> wrote:
    Oliver Costich <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected]:
    On 23 Oct 2004 13:21:57 GMT, Alun <[email protected]> wrote:
    "Investigator" <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected] .com:>> "Bob" <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote in message> news:[email protected] m...>>>>> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:46:53 +0000, Lottie>>> <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote:>>>>>> >> Not to mention how much money they make on the whole visa>>> >> dolling out issues....bloomin' highway robbery ain't it *l*>>> >And not forgetting the 1,000's of $ in attourney fee's you end up>>> >paying, cos the whole VISA/Green Card system is so ****ed complex!>>>>>>>>> You know a country anyone wnats to go to where it's easy?>>>> Lot easier to go to Canada, NZ, OZ, SA...>> all have skills type visa's that are easier to get.>>>> -->> Posted via http://britishexpats.com>> If that is true, don't you think it's more advisable to go there> instead?>>>Given what your president has done to the economy, I wish I had done,LOL!
    It's not too late.
    To elect Kerry? I suggest you do that.

    To do what you wish you had done.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oliver Costich
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:15:06 +0000, thelimey2000
    <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote:
    Oliver Costich wrote on 10/24/2004 9:08:
    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:32:31 -0700, Joachim Feise <[email protected]> wrote:>Oliver Costich wrote on 10/23/2004 12:33:>>On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:54:48 -0700, Joachim Feise <[email protected]>>>wrote:>>>Oliver Costich wrote on 10/21/2004 0:58:>>>>On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:50:55 -0700, Joachim Feise>>>><[email protected]>>>>>wrote:>>>>>Mark Mc wrote on 10/20/2004 12:47:>>>>>>Below are the FACTS regarding U.S. immigration.>>>>>Repeatedly posting anti-immigrant propaganda doesn't make it>>>>>facts.>>>>>Get lost.>>>>Everything in the post can be found in legitimate studies.>>>Links, please...>>>Until then, this is all anti-immigrant propaganda.>>>-Joe>>Look at the work by Borjas and the GAO. You can find the links with>>Google.>I have looked at Borjas' work. And the things posted in this anti->immigrant>diatribe can not be found there... First it was racist, now it's only anti-immigration.
    Huh? I said this piece was anti-immigrant propaganda. And since you can't find anything to refute that, you are all of a sudden trying to play the race card... Nice try, but won't work with me... -Joe
    Can you just clarify your position a little for me?You are o.k with immigration of high skilled persons holding advanceddegrees etc (such as your wife). I assume as they add valuable resourceand tax dollars.
    Yes, if they are in needed professions. It isn't appropraite to dring
    in MDs, say, simply because they would work cheaper.
    You have issue with illegal immigration and the amount of 'low skill'legal immigrants. They represent a drain on jobs and SS hand outs.
    The big drain is on the taxpayers in the form of social costs like
    health care, education, prisons, etc. The benefit of cheap labor
    accrues to the employer primarily, but the costs fall heavily on the
    taxpayers.
    I tend to agree in principle, but it seems far more complex than youmake out. My questions are,1. If you want high skilled people, what's your position on allowing their families to immigrate with them? There are potentially several direct family members per 'desired' immigrant?
    It's more complex than that. Will the person be able to support the
    entire family and pay significant taxes toward their social costs?
    What's a family? Parents and children? Or are you talking about larger
    numbers via "chain immigration" or otherwise? (For each person granted
    amnesty in 1987 there was an immigration, on average of ten to
    fourteen family members.)
    2. Whets your view on the argument that immigrants end up doing the jobs that 'Americans' don't want? Donít you think immigrants work for less? Making things cheaper for consumer/customer?
    Immigrants work for less dollars per hour from the employer, but the
    overall cost to the US as a whole may be be less. The employer does
    not have to compete is a "fair" market for labor. If they had to
    compete for citizen labor, wages would rise and those people would
    come off welfare rolles and become (maybe) taxpayers. Does it really
    make things cheaper for the consumer? For agricultural products most
    of the cost is in production costs other than labor, distribution
    costs and retailer mak up. A study by economists Wallace Huffman and
    Alan McCunn of Iowa State University, for an example, showed that not
    using illegal labor wourd raise the cost of tomatoes to the consumer
    by about 3 cents a pound.

    As Harvard Kennedy Center Professor George Borjas pointed out last
    Sunday on CNN, there are NO jobs that Americans won't do, there are
    jsut jobs Americans won't do for the wages offered (which as depressed
    by the availability of imported cheap labor). He aslo has a note on
    the effects of immigration on native born workers
    http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back504.html The Conclusion:
    The concern over the adverse labor market effects of immigration has
    always played a central role in the immigration debate. This
    Backgrounder introduces a new approach for estimating the wage effects
    of immigration. The approach stresses that the labor market impact of
    immigration needs to be measured at the national level and exploits
    the fact that ó even within a particular schooling group ó young
    immigrants are more likely to compete with young native workers than
    they are to compete with older native workers.

    The study of the trends in the earnings of native workers over the
    1960-2000 period indicates that immigration has indeed harmed their
    economic opportunities. The effect on wages, however, differs across
    education groups and race groups. For example, the immigrant influx
    that entered the country between 1980 and 2000 lowered the wage by 7.4
    percent for high school dropouts, by 3.6 percent for college
    graduates, and by around 2 percent for both high school graduates and
    workers with some college. Of course, the impact is much larger for
    some specific experience groups within each educational category.
    Similarly, although this immigrant influx lowered the wages of white
    native workers by 3.5 percent, it lowered the wage of native-born
    blacks by 4.5 percent, and of native-born Hispanics by 5 percent.

    It seems that Paul Samuelson was right after all: Wages fall when
    immigrants increase the size of the workforce.


    3. If you tighten up more on who can immigrate legally won't you in fact run the risk of ending up with even more illegal and even less tax dollars?
    You count not only taxes you take in but taxes going out for social
    costs. The key to stopping illegal immigration is to enforce the laws
    against hiring them. Make it unprofitable to hire them. Even if you
    allow ""guest worker" programs but require the employer to pay ALL
    social costs, including education and health care, you'd find
    employers crambling to hire Americans.
    You seem to respond to questions and itís not a total insult tirade solook forward to your reply. I have a lot of other questions too, justwant to clarify, are you proposing a solution? Or merely pointing out aproblem. Dealing with large populations of 'immigrants' is a veryintricate problem (just look at few former leaders of nations.......),maybe thatís why the U.S government is treading carefully?
    The US isn't treading carefully. The Republicans want cheap labor for
    their corporate pals. The Democrats want give them all amnesty to get
    the votes.

    As you note, the issue is complex. The costs of the importation of
    cheap labor are astounding when all is considered.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oliver Costich
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:01:34 -0700, Joachim Feise <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    Oliver Costich wrote on 10/24/2004 9:08:
    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:32:31 -0700, Joachim Feise <[email protected]> wrote:
    Oliver Costich wrote on 10/23/2004 12:33:>On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:54:48 -0700, Joachim Feise <[email protected]>>wrote:>>>>>Oliver Costich wrote on 10/21/2004 0:58:>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:50:55 -0700, Joachim Feise <[email protected]>>>>wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mark Mc wrote on 10/20/2004 12:47:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Below are the FACTS regarding U.S. immigration.>>>>>>>>Repeatedly posting anti-immigrant propaganda doesn't make it facts.>>>>Get lost.>>>>>>>>>>>>Everything in the post can be found in legitimate studies.>>>>Links, please...>>Until then, this is all anti-immigrant propaganda.>>>>-Joe>>>>Look at the work by Borjas and the GAO. You can find the links with>Google.I have looked at Borjas' work. And the things posted in this anti-immigrantdiatribe can not be found there...
    First it was racist, now it's only anti-immigration.
    Huh? I said this piece was anti-immigrant propaganda.
    Sooy, my mistake.
    And since you can't find anything to refute that, you are all of a suddentrying to play the race card...
    What's to refute? Importing hoards of cheap labor isn't good for the
    taxpaters or the environment. Immigrants with needed skills and
    education are an asset.
    Nice try, but won't work with me...
    I'm heartbroken.
    -Joe

    Leave a comment:


  • Alun
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    Oliver Costich <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:
    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:14:51 -0700, "Eric and Catherine Back" <[email protected]> wrote:
    Decreases in European populations threaten Social Security programsthere. The US program is similarly underfinanced. It would seem thatour present investment in immigrantion will be a net gain for thefuture solvency of social security.Eric
    Only under one assumption, which is false, at least for now. A large proportion of immigrants are low income and pay little into social security. Many illegals pay nothing by working off the books. In addition, their demand on social services places additional burden on the tax base. Since the government doesn't really segregate social security funds from other tax revenues, the situation gets even worse. Money that could have been used to strengthen social security is drained off for other social sevices. For example, 25% of Californians are on Medical (Medicaid), exacerbating the problems with the Medicare/Medicaid system. Sheer population increase alone isn't going to fix anything. It strains the systems that supply water and energy and creates numerous environmemtal problems. Thirty years ago, we were told that we needed to aim for zero population growth in order to maintain our standard of living without damaging the environment. WE were well on the way until the recent immigration wave. If sheer numbers are the answer, Americans are capable of breeding. The quality of any population increase has to also be considered, and that's why immigration policy has to be used to assure that, rather than to supply an endless source of cheap labor. The issue isn't immigration or not, but what kind of immigration.
    My visa and later my immigration preference required a college degree, and
    yet jobs in my field are still being exported to India to be done there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alun
    replied
    US Immigration out of control

    Oliver Costich <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:
    On 23 Oct 2004 13:21:57 GMT, Alun <[email protected]> wrote:
    "Investigator" <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected] .com:
    "Bob" <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote in message news:[email protected] m...>>> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:46:53 +0000, Lottie>> <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote:>>>> >> Not to mention how much money they make on the whole visa>> >> dolling out issues....bloomin' highway robbery ain't it *l*>> >And not forgetting the 1,000's of $ in attourney fee's you end up>> >paying, cos the whole VISA/Green Card system is so ****ed complex!>>>>>> You know a country anyone wnats to go to where it's easy?>> Lot easier to go to Canada, NZ, OZ, SA...> all have skills type visa's that are easier to get.>> --> Posted via http://britishexpats.com If that is true, don't you think it's more advisable to go there instead?
    Given what your president has done to the economy, I wish I had done,LOL!
    It's not too late.
    To elect Kerry? I suggest you do that.

    Leave a comment:

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