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  • Steve Dufour
    started a topic Americans oppose increase in immigration

    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    Americans oppose increase in immigration


    By Stephen Dinan
    THE WASHINGTON TIMES



    Most Americans adamantly oppose both increasing the amount of
    legal immigration to the United States and legalizing those immigrants
    now here illegally, the two key elements in President Bush's
    immigration overhaul proposal.
    On no other foreign policy issue do average Americans disagree
    more with government and business leaders and other "elites" than on
    immigration.
    "The number of people who want immigration increased is very
    small," said Steven A. Camarota, research director for the Center for
    Immigration Studies. "If 55 or 60 percent of the public wants less
    immigration, a third wants it the same and 7 percent wants it more —
    [Mr. Bush] is going for that 7 percent."
    The issue cuts across party lines, but already yesterday opponents
    in Congress were lining up.
    Mr. Bush proposed allowing illegal aliens already in the United
    States and foreign residents to apply for legal work status here, as
    long as an employer has certified he would employ the person and no
    U.S. worker is readily available.
    The president also proposed increasing the level of overall legal
    immigration, and though he didn't specifically guarantee that the
    guest workers would get legal permanent residence, members of Congress
    said they expect the two will have to be tied together somehow.
    But a Gallup poll from June found only 13 percent of Americans
    thought immigration should be increased, while 47 percent said it
    should be reduced and 37 percent said it should be kept at its present
    level.
    Opposition has remained high for several years. A Zogby poll from
    2002 found that 58 percent of Americans wanted to reduce immigration,
    65 percent disagreed with amnesty and 68 percent felt the United
    States should deploy military troops to the border to curb illegal
    immigration.
    Meanwhile, 60 percent of Americans believe present immigration
    levels are a "critical threat to the vital interests of the United
    States." But when the poll asked the same question of government
    officials, business leaders and journalists, only 14 percent thought
    so.
    When asked whether immigration levels should be kept the same,
    increased or reduced, 55 percent of Americans opted for a reduction,
    while 18 percent of the poll's sample of "elites" thought so,
    according to an analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies.
    Also, proposals that are seen as soft on illegal immigrants have
    come back to bite politicians before.
    Just last year, California Gov. Gray Davis was hurt in his bid to
    stave off a recall when he signed a bill to let illegal immigrants
    obtain state driver's licenses. The new governor, Arnold
    Schwarzenegger, pushed a repeal of that provision through the
    legislature.
    An exit poll commissioned by the Federation for American
    Immigration Reform showed that 30 percent of California voters said
    they were somewhat or much more likely to vote against Mr. Davis
    because he signed the law. Only 8 percent of voters were somewhat or
    much more likely to support him because of it.
    "How did Davis get it so wrong?" Mr. Camarota said. "The reason
    is, he and people like George Bush live in an echo chamber of elites,
    where the received wisdom on immigration is all the same."
    "But once you get out of the Beltway, or leave the offices of the
    Chamber of Commerce, the number of people in the U.S. who think it's a
    good idea to give legal status to illegal aliens, or more generally to
    increase immigration, is very small," Mr. Camarota said.
    Still, guest-worker proponents say that if they get a chance to
    explain their plans, they can win over the public.
    "The difference here is some people see this being portrayed by
    the Pat Buchanans of the world as launching a new wave of immigration,
    whereas we see it more as acknowledging the wave that has already
    happened," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who is sponsoring
    one of the leading guest-worker proposals pending in Congress.
    His proposal, which he is sponsoring along with two fellow Arizona
    Republicans — Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jim Kolbe — would allow an
    illegal alien to pay a fine and apply for legal work status and after
    completing two terms, they could apply for permanent legal residence.
    Mr. Flake pointed to a poll of Arizona voters that found after Mr.
    Flake's proposal was explained, it garnered 59 percent support. The
    poll was conducted by KAET-TV and the Walter Cronkite School of
    Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University.
    And Don Stewart, spokesman for Sen. John Cornyn, the Texas
    Republican who has his own guest-worker program pending in the Senate,
    said he expects the public perception to change now that the president
    has put something specific on the table.
    "People have been polling in the abstract, now they're polling on
    something specific, and the numbers will change accordingly," Mr.
    Stewart said. Mr. Bush's guest-worker proposal closely tracks the bill
    Mr. Cornyn is sponsoring in the Senate.
    Even proponents like Mr. Kolbe said they don't expect to pass
    their bill this year.
    "It's probably likely we will not see legislative action before
    2005," he said.
    Rep. Steve King, Iowa Republican and an opponent of the proposals,
    said sufficient opposition exists among rank-and-file Republicans on
    key committees that Mr. Bush would have to make a serious effort to
    convince Congress to act.
    "I think it'll take a push from leadership, and it just depends on
    whether the president can put enough leverage on the speaker and on
    [House Majority Leader] Tom DeLay," Mr. King said.
    Mr. King said whatever happens, he and other Republicans will
    fight it.
    "I can tell you it will be a gloves-off fight all the way
    through," he said.
    Mr. DeLay last night said he supports a guest-worker program to
    grow the economy and enhance security, but said he remains "skeptical
    that [Mr. Bush´s plan] constitutes sound public policy."
    "I applaud President Bush for his leadership and courage in
    addressing this complex and difficult issue, but I have heartfelt
    concerns about allowing illegal immigrants into a U.S. guest-worker
    program because it seems to reward illegal behavior," he said.

  • Arnold Wolfcaste
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    supernav <[email protected]_expats.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    Trust me. American restaurants and grocery stores and department stores can't wait for Bush's announcements. All the $9-$15/hr waitresses, chefs and clerks will all be layed off overnight and replaced with legal $5.50/hr mexicans. There won't be a SINGLE american-born worker in any of those service stores in any of the 50 states. Good god it's gonna get ugly. (think about it. Why would you have 80 employees in walmart making $12/hr, when there's 3,000 mexicans outside your door now with valid gc's willing to work for min. wage?). -= nav =-

    Blacks are gonna get screwed again on this one. Sadly, they still
    vote for Democrats who are worse than Republicans.

    At least 60 Repubs & 1 Democrat in the House will try to stop this led
    by Representative Tom Tancredo of Colorado.

    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...2/223733.shtml

    When people were asked whether the United States should make it easier
    for illegal immigrants to become citizens, 74 percent said no - up
    from 67 percent in August 2001.

    The poll of 1,003 adults was taken Jan. 9-11 and had a margin of
    sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

    Leave a comment:


  • Roger
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    "Oliver Costich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:08:42 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]> wrote:
    "Oliver Costich" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] .com...
    On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 08:25:10 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]> wrote: >"Oliver Costich" <[email protected]> wrote in message >news:[email protected] . >> On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 07:05:28 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    >> >> >Washington Times = Moonie Bull**** >> >> So you contend that they fabricated all the polls referenced? > >I contend that the Washington Times is owned by the Rev. Moon and is >bull****. > I'm sure he has a hand in day to day operations. If you ever read it, you'd see there is no Moonie propaganda in it. If you didn't know his Church owned it, you wouldn't be able to tell they did by reading it.From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_MoonAfter the end of the Japanese occupation of Korea, Moon learned
    first-hand
    to despise the brutal excesses of North Korean communism. His experiencesinspired a lasting hatred of Communism that helped him forge a powerfulpolitical alliance with the Reagan administration. Moon has spent a
    billion
    dollars to run the conservative, influential Washington Times, which in
    2002
    he called "the instrument in spreading the truth about God to the world."And decades after Congressional scrutiny and a prison term for tax fraud,his generosity to the New Right (including opening an account for the"Contra" part of the Iran-Contra equation) has earned him a world ofdeference from his former enemies. So what? The news content of the paper is as good as most others.
    Then why don't any other news outlets pick up their stories, except for
    Moons other outlets and right-wing wacko outlets like WorldNetDaily?
    I repeat, do you contend that the data and poll results in the article are fabricated?I said nothing about the article. I said something about the publication.
    In a thread thay was about the contents of the article. You were attempting to discredit the article and, now caught, are tap dancing.
    Go back and read my responses over months to these challenges. I've said the
    same thing.
    What if it were the Christian Science Monitor that reported this?
    See above. Above where?
    Above where I said "above."
    >> >> > >> > >> >"Steve Dufour" <[email protected]> wrote in message >> >news:[email protected] com... >> >> Americans oppose increase in immigration >> >> >> >> >> >> By Stephen Dinan >> >> THE WASHINGTON TIMES >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Most Americans adamantly oppose both increasing the amount of >> >> legal immigration to the United States and legalizing those
    immigrants
    >> >> now here illegally, the two key elements in President Bush's >> >> immigration overhaul proposal. >> >> On no other foreign policy issue do average Americans
    disagree
    >> >> more with government and business leaders and other "elites" than
    on
    >> >> immigration. >> >> "The number of people who want immigration increased is very >> >> small," said Steven A. Camarota, research director for the Centerfor
    >> >> Immigration Studies. "If 55 or 60 percent of the public wants
    less
    >> >> immigration, a third wants it the same and 7 percent wants it
    more -
    >> >> [Mr. Bush] is going for that 7 percent." >> >> The issue cuts across party lines, but already yesterdayopponents
    >> >> in Congress were lining up. >> >> Mr. Bush proposed allowing illegal aliens already in the
    United
    >> >> States and foreign residents to apply for legal work status here,
    as
    >> >> long as an employer has certified he would employ the person and
    no
    >> >> U.S. worker is readily available. >> >> The president also proposed increasing the level of overalllegal
    >> >> immigration, and though he didn't specifically guarantee that the >> >> guest workers would get legal permanent residence, members of
    Congress
    >> >> said they expect the two will have to be tied together somehow. >> >> But a Gallup poll from June found only 13 percent of
    Americans
    >> >> thought immigration should be increased, while 47 percent said it >> >> should be reduced and 37 percent said it should be kept at itspresent
    >> >> level. >> >> Opposition has remained high for several years. A Zogby poll
    from
    >> >> 2002 found that 58 percent of Americans wanted to reduce
    immigration,
    >> >> 65 percent disagreed with amnesty and 68 percent felt the United >> >> States should deploy military troops to the border to curb
    illegal
    >> >> immigration. >> >> Meanwhile, 60 percent of Americans believe present
    immigration
    >> >> levels are a "critical threat to the vital interests of the
    United
    >> >> States." But when the poll asked the same question of government >> >> officials, business leaders and journalists, only 14 percent
    thought
    >> >> so. >> >> When asked whether immigration levels should be kept the
    same,
    >> >> increased or reduced, 55 percent of Americans opted for a
    reduction,
    >> >> while 18 percent of the poll's sample of "elites" thought so, >> >> according to an analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies. >> >> Also, proposals that are seen as soft on illegal immigrants
    have
    >> >> come back to bite politicians before. >> >> Just last year, California Gov. Gray Davis was hurt in his
    bid
    to
    >> >> stave off a recall when he signed a bill to let illegal
    immigrants
    >> >> obtain state driver's licenses. The new governor, Arnold >> >> Schwarzenegger, pushed a repeal of that provision through the >> >> legislature. >> >> An exit poll commissioned by the Federation for American >> >> Immigration Reform showed that 30 percent of California voters
    said
    >> >> they were somewhat or much more likely to vote against Mr. Davis >> >> because he signed the law. Only 8 percent of voters were somewhat
    or
    >> >> much more likely to support him because of it. >> >> "How did Davis get it so wrong?" Mr. Camarota said. "The
    reason
    >> >> is, he and people like George Bush live in an echo chamber ofelites,
    >> >> where the received wisdom on immigration is all the same." >> >> "But once you get out of the Beltway, or leave the offices of
    the
    >> >> Chamber of Commerce, the number of people in the U.S. who think
    it's
    a
    >> >> good idea to give legal status to illegal aliens, or more
    generally
    to
    >> >> increase immigration, is very small," Mr. Camarota said. >> >> Still, guest-worker proponents say that if they get a chance
    to
    >> >> explain their plans, they can win over the public. >> >> "The difference here is some people see this being portrayed
    by
    >> >> the Pat Buchanans of the world as launching a new wave ofimmigration,
    >> >> whereas we see it more as acknowledging the wave that has already >> >> happened," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who is
    sponsoring
    >> >> one of the leading guest-worker proposals pending in Congress. >> >> His proposal, which he is sponsoring along with two fellow
    Arizona
    >> >> Republicans - Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jim Kolbe - would allow
    an
    >> >> illegal alien to pay a fine and apply for legal work status andafter
    >> >> completing two terms, they could apply for permanent legal
    residence.
    >> >> Mr. Flake pointed to a poll of Arizona voters that found
    after
    Mr.
    >> >> Flake's proposal was explained, it garnered 59 percent support.
    The
    >> >> poll was conducted by KAET-TV and the Walter Cronkite School of >> >> Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. >> >> And Don Stewart, spokesman for Sen. John Cornyn, the Texas >> >> Republican who has his own guest-worker program pending in theSenate,
    >> >> said he expects the public perception to change now that the
    president
    >> >> has put something specific on the table. >> >> "People have been polling in the abstract, now they're
    polling
    on
    >> >> something specific, and the numbers will change accordingly," Mr. >> >> Stewart said. Mr. Bush's guest-worker proposal closely tracks the
    bill
    >> >> Mr. Cornyn is sponsoring in the Senate. >> >> Even proponents like Mr. Kolbe said they don't expect to pass >> >> their bill this year. >> >> "It's probably likely we will not see legislative action
    before
    >> >> 2005," he said. >> >> Rep. Steve King, Iowa Republican and an opponent of theproposals,
    >> >> said sufficient opposition exists among rank-and-file Republicans
    on
    >> >> key committees that Mr. Bush would have to make a serious effort
    to
    >> >> convince Congress to act. >> >> "I think it'll take a push from leadership, and it just
    depends
    on
    >> >> whether the president can put enough leverage on the speaker and
    on
    >> >> [House Majority Leader] Tom DeLay," Mr. King said. >> >> Mr. King said whatever happens, he and other Republicans will >> >> fight it. >> >> "I can tell you it will be a gloves-off fight all the way >> >> through," he said. >> >> Mr. DeLay last night said he supports a guest-worker program
    to
    >> >> grow the economy and enhance security, but said he remains"skeptical
    >> >> that [Mr. Bush´s plan] constitutes sound public policy." >> >> "I applaud President Bush for his leadership and courage in >> >> addressing this complex and difficult issue, but I have heartfelt >> >> concerns about allowing illegal immigrants into a U.S.
    guest-worker
    >> >> program because it seems to reward illegal behavior," he said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oliver Costich
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:08:42 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]> wrote:
    "Oliver Costich" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] .com...
    On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 08:25:10 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]> wrote:
    "Oliver Costich" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] .com...> On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 07:05:28 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]> wrote:>> >Washington Times = Moonie Bull****>> So you contend that they fabricated all the polls referenced?I contend that the Washington Times is owned by the Rev. Moon and isbull****.
    I'm sure he has a hand in day to day operations. If you ever read it, you'd see there is no Moonie propaganda in it. If you didn't know his Church owned it, you wouldn't be able to tell they did by reading it.
    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_MoonAfter the end of the Japanese occupation of Korea, Moon learned first-handto despise the brutal excesses of North Korean communism. His experiencesinspired a lasting hatred of Communism that helped him forge a powerfulpolitical alliance with the Reagan administration. Moon has spent a billiondollars to run the conservative, influential Washington Times, which in 2002he called "the instrument in spreading the truth about God to the world."And decades after Congressional scrutiny and a prison term for tax fraud,his generosity to the New Right (including opening an account for the"Contra" part of the Iran-Contra equation) has earned him a world ofdeference from his former enemies.
    So what? The news content of the paper is as good as most others.
    I repeat, do you contend that the data and poll results in the article are fabricated?I said nothing about the article. I said something about the publication.
    In a thread thay was about the contents of the article. You were
    attempting to discredit the article and, now caught, are tap dancing.
    What if it were the Christian Science Monitor that reported this?
    See above.
    Above where?
    >> >> >> >"Steve Dufour" <[email protected]> wrote in message> >news:[email protected] com...> >> Americans oppose increase in immigration> >>> >>> >> By Stephen Dinan> >> THE WASHINGTON TIMES> >>> >>> >>> >> Most Americans adamantly oppose both increasing the amount of> >> legal immigration to the United States and legalizing those
    immigrants
    > >> now here illegally, the two key elements in President Bush's> >> immigration overhaul proposal.> >> On no other foreign policy issue do average Americans disagree> >> more with government and business leaders and other "elites" than on> >> immigration.> >> "The number of people who want immigration increased is very> >> small," said Steven A. Camarota, research director for the Center
    for
    > >> Immigration Studies. "If 55 or 60 percent of the public wants less> >> immigration, a third wants it the same and 7 percent wants it more -> >> [Mr. Bush] is going for that 7 percent."> >> The issue cuts across party lines, but already yesterday
    opponents
    > >> in Congress were lining up.> >> Mr. Bush proposed allowing illegal aliens already in the United> >> States and foreign residents to apply for legal work status here, as> >> long as an employer has certified he would employ the person and no> >> U.S. worker is readily available.> >> The president also proposed increasing the level of overall
    legal
    > >> immigration, and though he didn't specifically guarantee that the> >> guest workers would get legal permanent residence, members of
    Congress
    > >> said they expect the two will have to be tied together somehow.> >> But a Gallup poll from June found only 13 percent of Americans> >> thought immigration should be increased, while 47 percent said it> >> should be reduced and 37 percent said it should be kept at its
    present
    > >> level.> >> Opposition has remained high for several years. A Zogby poll
    from
    > >> 2002 found that 58 percent of Americans wanted to reduce
    immigration,
    > >> 65 percent disagreed with amnesty and 68 percent felt the United> >> States should deploy military troops to the border to curb illegal> >> immigration.> >> Meanwhile, 60 percent of Americans believe present immigration> >> levels are a "critical threat to the vital interests of the United> >> States." But when the poll asked the same question of government> >> officials, business leaders and journalists, only 14 percent thought> >> so.> >> When asked whether immigration levels should be kept the same,> >> increased or reduced, 55 percent of Americans opted for a reduction,> >> while 18 percent of the poll's sample of "elites" thought so,> >> according to an analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies.> >> Also, proposals that are seen as soft on illegal immigrants have> >> come back to bite politicians before.> >> Just last year, California Gov. Gray Davis was hurt in his bid
    to
    > >> stave off a recall when he signed a bill to let illegal immigrants> >> obtain state driver's licenses. The new governor, Arnold> >> Schwarzenegger, pushed a repeal of that provision through the> >> legislature.> >> An exit poll commissioned by the Federation for American> >> Immigration Reform showed that 30 percent of California voters said> >> they were somewhat or much more likely to vote against Mr. Davis> >> because he signed the law. Only 8 percent of voters were somewhat or> >> much more likely to support him because of it.> >> "How did Davis get it so wrong?" Mr. Camarota said. "The reason> >> is, he and people like George Bush live in an echo chamber of
    elites,
    > >> where the received wisdom on immigration is all the same."> >> "But once you get out of the Beltway, or leave the offices of
    the
    > >> Chamber of Commerce, the number of people in the U.S. who think it's
    a
    > >> good idea to give legal status to illegal aliens, or more generally
    to
    > >> increase immigration, is very small," Mr. Camarota said.> >> Still, guest-worker proponents say that if they get a chance to> >> explain their plans, they can win over the public.> >> "The difference here is some people see this being portrayed by> >> the Pat Buchanans of the world as launching a new wave of
    immigration,
    > >> whereas we see it more as acknowledging the wave that has already> >> happened," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who is
    sponsoring
    > >> one of the leading guest-worker proposals pending in Congress.> >> His proposal, which he is sponsoring along with two fellow
    Arizona
    > >> Republicans - Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jim Kolbe - would allow an> >> illegal alien to pay a fine and apply for legal work status and
    after
    > >> completing two terms, they could apply for permanent legal
    residence.
    > >> Mr. Flake pointed to a poll of Arizona voters that found after
    Mr.
    > >> Flake's proposal was explained, it garnered 59 percent support. The> >> poll was conducted by KAET-TV and the Walter Cronkite School of> >> Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University.> >> And Don Stewart, spokesman for Sen. John Cornyn, the Texas> >> Republican who has his own guest-worker program pending in the
    Senate,
    > >> said he expects the public perception to change now that the
    president
    > >> has put something specific on the table.> >> "People have been polling in the abstract, now they're polling
    on
    > >> something specific, and the numbers will change accordingly," Mr.> >> Stewart said. Mr. Bush's guest-worker proposal closely tracks the
    bill
    > >> Mr. Cornyn is sponsoring in the Senate.> >> Even proponents like Mr. Kolbe said they don't expect to pass> >> their bill this year.> >> "It's probably likely we will not see legislative action before> >> 2005," he said.> >> Rep. Steve King, Iowa Republican and an opponent of the
    proposals,
    > >> said sufficient opposition exists among rank-and-file Republicans on> >> key committees that Mr. Bush would have to make a serious effort to> >> convince Congress to act.> >> "I think it'll take a push from leadership, and it just depends
    on
    > >> whether the president can put enough leverage on the speaker and on> >> [House Majority Leader] Tom DeLay," Mr. King said.> >> Mr. King said whatever happens, he and other Republicans will> >> fight it.> >> "I can tell you it will be a gloves-off fight all the way> >> through," he said.> >> Mr. DeLay last night said he supports a guest-worker program to> >> grow the economy and enhance security, but said he remains
    "skeptical
    > >> that [Mr. Bush´s plan] constitutes sound public policy."> >> "I applaud President Bush for his leadership and courage in> >> addressing this complex and difficult issue, but I have heartfelt> >> concerns about allowing illegal immigrants into a U.S. guest-worker> >> program because it seems to reward illegal behavior," he said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Roger
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    "Oliver Costich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 08:25:10 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]> wrote:
    "Oliver Costich" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] .com...
    On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 07:05:28 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]> wrote: >Washington Times = Moonie Bull**** So you contend that they fabricated all the polls referenced?
    I contend that the Washington Times is owned by the Rev. Moon and isbull****.
    I'm sure he has a hand in day to day operations. If you ever read it, you'd see there is no Moonie propaganda in it. If you didn't know his Church owned it, you wouldn't be able to tell they did by reading it.
    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon

    After the end of the Japanese occupation of Korea, Moon learned first-hand
    to despise the brutal excesses of North Korean communism. His experiences
    inspired a lasting hatred of Communism that helped him forge a powerful
    political alliance with the Reagan administration. Moon has spent a billion
    dollars to run the conservative, influential Washington Times, which in 2002
    he called "the instrument in spreading the truth about God to the world."
    And decades after Congressional scrutiny and a prison term for tax fraud,
    his generosity to the New Right (including opening an account for the
    "Contra" part of the Iran-Contra equation) has earned him a world of
    deference from his former enemies.
    I repeat, do you contend that the data and poll results in the article are fabricated?
    I said nothing about the article. I said something about the publication.
    What if it were the Christian Science Monitor that reported this?
    See above.
    > > >"Steve Dufour" <[email protected]> wrote in message >news:[email protected] com... >> Americans oppose increase in immigration >> >> >> By Stephen Dinan >> THE WASHINGTON TIMES >> >> >> >> Most Americans adamantly oppose both increasing the amount of >> legal immigration to the United States and legalizing those
    immigrants
    >> now here illegally, the two key elements in President Bush's >> immigration overhaul proposal. >> On no other foreign policy issue do average Americans disagree >> more with government and business leaders and other "elites" than on >> immigration. >> "The number of people who want immigration increased is very >> small," said Steven A. Camarota, research director for the Center
    for
    >> Immigration Studies. "If 55 or 60 percent of the public wants less >> immigration, a third wants it the same and 7 percent wants it more - >> [Mr. Bush] is going for that 7 percent." >> The issue cuts across party lines, but already yesterday
    opponents
    >> in Congress were lining up. >> Mr. Bush proposed allowing illegal aliens already in the United >> States and foreign residents to apply for legal work status here, as >> long as an employer has certified he would employ the person and no >> U.S. worker is readily available. >> The president also proposed increasing the level of overall
    legal
    >> immigration, and though he didn't specifically guarantee that the >> guest workers would get legal permanent residence, members of
    Congress
    >> said they expect the two will have to be tied together somehow. >> But a Gallup poll from June found only 13 percent of Americans >> thought immigration should be increased, while 47 percent said it >> should be reduced and 37 percent said it should be kept at its
    present
    >> level. >> Opposition has remained high for several years. A Zogby poll
    from
    >> 2002 found that 58 percent of Americans wanted to reduce
    immigration,
    >> 65 percent disagreed with amnesty and 68 percent felt the United >> States should deploy military troops to the border to curb illegal >> immigration. >> Meanwhile, 60 percent of Americans believe present immigration >> levels are a "critical threat to the vital interests of the United >> States." But when the poll asked the same question of government >> officials, business leaders and journalists, only 14 percent thought >> so. >> When asked whether immigration levels should be kept the same, >> increased or reduced, 55 percent of Americans opted for a reduction, >> while 18 percent of the poll's sample of "elites" thought so, >> according to an analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies. >> Also, proposals that are seen as soft on illegal immigrants have >> come back to bite politicians before. >> Just last year, California Gov. Gray Davis was hurt in his bid
    to
    >> stave off a recall when he signed a bill to let illegal immigrants >> obtain state driver's licenses. The new governor, Arnold >> Schwarzenegger, pushed a repeal of that provision through the >> legislature. >> An exit poll commissioned by the Federation for American >> Immigration Reform showed that 30 percent of California voters said >> they were somewhat or much more likely to vote against Mr. Davis >> because he signed the law. Only 8 percent of voters were somewhat or >> much more likely to support him because of it. >> "How did Davis get it so wrong?" Mr. Camarota said. "The reason >> is, he and people like George Bush live in an echo chamber of
    elites,
    >> where the received wisdom on immigration is all the same." >> "But once you get out of the Beltway, or leave the offices of
    the
    >> Chamber of Commerce, the number of people in the U.S. who think it's
    a
    >> good idea to give legal status to illegal aliens, or more generally
    to
    >> increase immigration, is very small," Mr. Camarota said. >> Still, guest-worker proponents say that if they get a chance to >> explain their plans, they can win over the public. >> "The difference here is some people see this being portrayed by >> the Pat Buchanans of the world as launching a new wave of
    immigration,
    >> whereas we see it more as acknowledging the wave that has already >> happened," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who is
    sponsoring
    >> one of the leading guest-worker proposals pending in Congress. >> His proposal, which he is sponsoring along with two fellow
    Arizona
    >> Republicans - Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jim Kolbe - would allow an >> illegal alien to pay a fine and apply for legal work status and
    after
    >> completing two terms, they could apply for permanent legal
    residence.
    >> Mr. Flake pointed to a poll of Arizona voters that found after
    Mr.
    >> Flake's proposal was explained, it garnered 59 percent support. The >> poll was conducted by KAET-TV and the Walter Cronkite School of >> Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. >> And Don Stewart, spokesman for Sen. John Cornyn, the Texas >> Republican who has his own guest-worker program pending in the
    Senate,
    >> said he expects the public perception to change now that the
    president
    >> has put something specific on the table. >> "People have been polling in the abstract, now they're polling
    on
    >> something specific, and the numbers will change accordingly," Mr. >> Stewart said. Mr. Bush's guest-worker proposal closely tracks the
    bill
    >> Mr. Cornyn is sponsoring in the Senate. >> Even proponents like Mr. Kolbe said they don't expect to pass >> their bill this year. >> "It's probably likely we will not see legislative action before >> 2005," he said. >> Rep. Steve King, Iowa Republican and an opponent of the
    proposals,
    >> said sufficient opposition exists among rank-and-file Republicans on >> key committees that Mr. Bush would have to make a serious effort to >> convince Congress to act. >> "I think it'll take a push from leadership, and it just depends
    on
    >> whether the president can put enough leverage on the speaker and on >> [House Majority Leader] Tom DeLay," Mr. King said. >> Mr. King said whatever happens, he and other Republicans will >> fight it. >> "I can tell you it will be a gloves-off fight all the way >> through," he said. >> Mr. DeLay last night said he supports a guest-worker program to >> grow the economy and enhance security, but said he remains
    "skeptical
    >> that [Mr. Bush´s plan] constitutes sound public policy." >> "I applaud President Bush for his leadership and courage in >> addressing this complex and difficult issue, but I have heartfelt >> concerns about allowing illegal immigrants into a U.S. guest-worker >> program because it seems to reward illegal behavior," he said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oliver Costich
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 08:25:10 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]> wrote:
    "Oliver Costich" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] .com...
    On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 07:05:28 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]> wrote:
    Washington Times = Moonie Bull****
    So you contend that they fabricated all the polls referenced?
    I contend that the Washington Times is owned by the Rev. Moon and isbull****.
    I'm sure he has a hand in day to day operations. If you ever read it,
    you'd see there is no Moonie propaganda in it. If you didn't know his
    Church owned it, you wouldn't be able to tell they did by reading it.

    I repeat, do you contend that the data and poll results in the article
    are fabricated?

    What if it were the Christian Science Monitor that reported this?
    "Steve Dufour" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] oogle.com...> Americans oppose increase in immigration>>> By Stephen Dinan> THE WASHINGTON TIMES>>>> Most Americans adamantly oppose both increasing the amount of> legal immigration to the United States and legalizing those immigrants> now here illegally, the two key elements in President Bush's> immigration overhaul proposal.> On no other foreign policy issue do average Americans disagree> more with government and business leaders and other "elites" than on> immigration.> "The number of people who want immigration increased is very> small," said Steven A. Camarota, research director for the Center for> Immigration Studies. "If 55 or 60 percent of the public wants less> immigration, a third wants it the same and 7 percent wants it more -> [Mr. Bush] is going for that 7 percent."> The issue cuts across party lines, but already yesterday opponents> in Congress were lining up.> Mr. Bush proposed allowing illegal aliens already in the United> States and foreign residents to apply for legal work status here, as> long as an employer has certified he would employ the person and no> U.S. worker is readily available.> The president also proposed increasing the level of overall legal> immigration, and though he didn't specifically guarantee that the> guest workers would get legal permanent residence, members of Congress> said they expect the two will have to be tied together somehow.> But a Gallup poll from June found only 13 percent of Americans> thought immigration should be increased, while 47 percent said it> should be reduced and 37 percent said it should be kept at its present> level.> Opposition has remained high for several years. A Zogby poll from> 2002 found that 58 percent of Americans wanted to reduce immigration,> 65 percent disagreed with amnesty and 68 percent felt the United> States should deploy military troops to the border to curb illegal> immigration.> Meanwhile, 60 percent of Americans believe present immigration> levels are a "critical threat to the vital interests of the United> States." But when the poll asked the same question of government> officials, business leaders and journalists, only 14 percent thought> so.> When asked whether immigration levels should be kept the same,> increased or reduced, 55 percent of Americans opted for a reduction,> while 18 percent of the poll's sample of "elites" thought so,> according to an analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies.> Also, proposals that are seen as soft on illegal immigrants have> come back to bite politicians before.> Just last year, California Gov. Gray Davis was hurt in his bid to> stave off a recall when he signed a bill to let illegal immigrants> obtain state driver's licenses. The new governor, Arnold> Schwarzenegger, pushed a repeal of that provision through the> legislature.> An exit poll commissioned by the Federation for American> Immigration Reform showed that 30 percent of California voters said> they were somewhat or much more likely to vote against Mr. Davis> because he signed the law. Only 8 percent of voters were somewhat or> much more likely to support him because of it.> "How did Davis get it so wrong?" Mr. Camarota said. "The reason> is, he and people like George Bush live in an echo chamber of elites,> where the received wisdom on immigration is all the same."> "But once you get out of the Beltway, or leave the offices of the> Chamber of Commerce, the number of people in the U.S. who think it's a> good idea to give legal status to illegal aliens, or more generally to> increase immigration, is very small," Mr. Camarota said.> Still, guest-worker proponents say that if they get a chance to> explain their plans, they can win over the public.> "The difference here is some people see this being portrayed by> the Pat Buchanans of the world as launching a new wave of immigration,> whereas we see it more as acknowledging the wave that has already> happened," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who is sponsoring> one of the leading guest-worker proposals pending in Congress.> His proposal, which he is sponsoring along with two fellow Arizona> Republicans - Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jim Kolbe - would allow an> illegal alien to pay a fine and apply for legal work status and after> completing two terms, they could apply for permanent legal residence.> Mr. Flake pointed to a poll of Arizona voters that found after Mr.> Flake's proposal was explained, it garnered 59 percent support. The> poll was conducted by KAET-TV and the Walter Cronkite School of> Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University.> And Don Stewart, spokesman for Sen. John Cornyn, the Texas> Republican who has his own guest-worker program pending in the Senate,> said he expects the public perception to change now that the president> has put something specific on the table.> "People have been polling in the abstract, now they're polling on> something specific, and the numbers will change accordingly," Mr.> Stewart said. Mr. Bush's guest-worker proposal closely tracks the bill> Mr. Cornyn is sponsoring in the Senate.> Even proponents like Mr. Kolbe said they don't expect to pass> their bill this year.> "It's probably likely we will not see legislative action before> 2005," he said.> Rep. Steve King, Iowa Republican and an opponent of the proposals,> said sufficient opposition exists among rank-and-file Republicans on> key committees that Mr. Bush would have to make a serious effort to> convince Congress to act.> "I think it'll take a push from leadership, and it just depends on> whether the president can put enough leverage on the speaker and on> [House Majority Leader] Tom DeLay," Mr. King said.> Mr. King said whatever happens, he and other Republicans will> fight it.> "I can tell you it will be a gloves-off fight all the way> through," he said.> Mr. DeLay last night said he supports a guest-worker program to> grow the economy and enhance security, but said he remains "skeptical> that [Mr. Bush´s plan] constitutes sound public policy."> "I applaud President Bush for his leadership and courage in> addressing this complex and difficult issue, but I have heartfelt> concerns about allowing illegal immigrants into a U.S. guest-worker> program because it seems to reward illegal behavior," he said.>

    Leave a comment:


  • Roger
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    "Oliver Costich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 07:05:28 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]> wrote:
    Washington Times = Moonie Bull****
    So you contend that they fabricated all the polls referenced?
    I contend that the Washington Times is owned by the Rev. Moon and is
    bull****.
    "Steve Dufour" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] oogle.com...
    Americans oppose increase in immigration By Stephen Dinan THE WASHINGTON TIMES Most Americans adamantly oppose both increasing the amount of legal immigration to the United States and legalizing those immigrants now here illegally, the two key elements in President Bush's immigration overhaul proposal. On no other foreign policy issue do average Americans disagree more with government and business leaders and other "elites" than on immigration. "The number of people who want immigration increased is very small," said Steven A. Camarota, research director for the Center for Immigration Studies. "If 55 or 60 percent of the public wants less immigration, a third wants it the same and 7 percent wants it more - [Mr. Bush] is going for that 7 percent." The issue cuts across party lines, but already yesterday opponents in Congress were lining up. Mr. Bush proposed allowing illegal aliens already in the United States and foreign residents to apply for legal work status here, as long as an employer has certified he would employ the person and no U.S. worker is readily available. The president also proposed increasing the level of overall legal immigration, and though he didn't specifically guarantee that the guest workers would get legal permanent residence, members of Congress said they expect the two will have to be tied together somehow. But a Gallup poll from June found only 13 percent of Americans thought immigration should be increased, while 47 percent said it should be reduced and 37 percent said it should be kept at its present level. Opposition has remained high for several years. A Zogby poll from 2002 found that 58 percent of Americans wanted to reduce immigration, 65 percent disagreed with amnesty and 68 percent felt the United States should deploy military troops to the border to curb illegal immigration. Meanwhile, 60 percent of Americans believe present immigration levels are a "critical threat to the vital interests of the United States." But when the poll asked the same question of government officials, business leaders and journalists, only 14 percent thought so. When asked whether immigration levels should be kept the same, increased or reduced, 55 percent of Americans opted for a reduction, while 18 percent of the poll's sample of "elites" thought so, according to an analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies. Also, proposals that are seen as soft on illegal immigrants have come back to bite politicians before. Just last year, California Gov. Gray Davis was hurt in his bid to stave off a recall when he signed a bill to let illegal immigrants obtain state driver's licenses. The new governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, pushed a repeal of that provision through the legislature. An exit poll commissioned by the Federation for American Immigration Reform showed that 30 percent of California voters said they were somewhat or much more likely to vote against Mr. Davis because he signed the law. Only 8 percent of voters were somewhat or much more likely to support him because of it. "How did Davis get it so wrong?" Mr. Camarota said. "The reason is, he and people like George Bush live in an echo chamber of elites, where the received wisdom on immigration is all the same." "But once you get out of the Beltway, or leave the offices of the Chamber of Commerce, the number of people in the U.S. who think it's a good idea to give legal status to illegal aliens, or more generally to increase immigration, is very small," Mr. Camarota said. Still, guest-worker proponents say that if they get a chance to explain their plans, they can win over the public. "The difference here is some people see this being portrayed by the Pat Buchanans of the world as launching a new wave of immigration, whereas we see it more as acknowledging the wave that has already happened," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who is sponsoring one of the leading guest-worker proposals pending in Congress. His proposal, which he is sponsoring along with two fellow Arizona Republicans - Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jim Kolbe - would allow an illegal alien to pay a fine and apply for legal work status and after completing two terms, they could apply for permanent legal residence. Mr. Flake pointed to a poll of Arizona voters that found after Mr. Flake's proposal was explained, it garnered 59 percent support. The poll was conducted by KAET-TV and the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. And Don Stewart, spokesman for Sen. John Cornyn, the Texas Republican who has his own guest-worker program pending in the Senate, said he expects the public perception to change now that the president has put something specific on the table. "People have been polling in the abstract, now they're polling on something specific, and the numbers will change accordingly," Mr. Stewart said. Mr. Bush's guest-worker proposal closely tracks the bill Mr. Cornyn is sponsoring in the Senate. Even proponents like Mr. Kolbe said they don't expect to pass their bill this year. "It's probably likely we will not see legislative action before 2005," he said. Rep. Steve King, Iowa Republican and an opponent of the proposals, said sufficient opposition exists among rank-and-file Republicans on key committees that Mr. Bush would have to make a serious effort to convince Congress to act. "I think it'll take a push from leadership, and it just depends on whether the president can put enough leverage on the speaker and on [House Majority Leader] Tom DeLay," Mr. King said. Mr. King said whatever happens, he and other Republicans will fight it. "I can tell you it will be a gloves-off fight all the way through," he said. Mr. DeLay last night said he supports a guest-worker program to grow the economy and enhance security, but said he remains "skeptical that [Mr. Bush´s plan] constitutes sound public policy." "I applaud President Bush for his leadership and courage in addressing this complex and difficult issue, but I have heartfelt concerns about allowing illegal immigrants into a U.S. guest-worker program because it seems to reward illegal behavior," he said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oliver Costich
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 07:05:28 GMT, "Roger" <[email protected]> wrote:
    Washington Times = Moonie Bull****
    So you contend that they fabricated all the polls referenced?
    "Steve Dufour" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected] oogle.com...
    Americans oppose increase in immigration By Stephen Dinan THE WASHINGTON TIMES Most Americans adamantly oppose both increasing the amount of legal immigration to the United States and legalizing those immigrants now here illegally, the two key elements in President Bush's immigration overhaul proposal. On no other foreign policy issue do average Americans disagree more with government and business leaders and other "elites" than on immigration. "The number of people who want immigration increased is very small," said Steven A. Camarota, research director for the Center for Immigration Studies. "If 55 or 60 percent of the public wants less immigration, a third wants it the same and 7 percent wants it more - [Mr. Bush] is going for that 7 percent." The issue cuts across party lines, but already yesterday opponents in Congress were lining up. Mr. Bush proposed allowing illegal aliens already in the United States and foreign residents to apply for legal work status here, as long as an employer has certified he would employ the person and no U.S. worker is readily available. The president also proposed increasing the level of overall legal immigration, and though he didn't specifically guarantee that the guest workers would get legal permanent residence, members of Congress said they expect the two will have to be tied together somehow. But a Gallup poll from June found only 13 percent of Americans thought immigration should be increased, while 47 percent said it should be reduced and 37 percent said it should be kept at its present level. Opposition has remained high for several years. A Zogby poll from 2002 found that 58 percent of Americans wanted to reduce immigration, 65 percent disagreed with amnesty and 68 percent felt the United States should deploy military troops to the border to curb illegal immigration. Meanwhile, 60 percent of Americans believe present immigration levels are a "critical threat to the vital interests of the United States." But when the poll asked the same question of government officials, business leaders and journalists, only 14 percent thought so. When asked whether immigration levels should be kept the same, increased or reduced, 55 percent of Americans opted for a reduction, while 18 percent of the poll's sample of "elites" thought so, according to an analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies. Also, proposals that are seen as soft on illegal immigrants have come back to bite politicians before. Just last year, California Gov. Gray Davis was hurt in his bid to stave off a recall when he signed a bill to let illegal immigrants obtain state driver's licenses. The new governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, pushed a repeal of that provision through the legislature. An exit poll commissioned by the Federation for American Immigration Reform showed that 30 percent of California voters said they were somewhat or much more likely to vote against Mr. Davis because he signed the law. Only 8 percent of voters were somewhat or much more likely to support him because of it. "How did Davis get it so wrong?" Mr. Camarota said. "The reason is, he and people like George Bush live in an echo chamber of elites, where the received wisdom on immigration is all the same." "But once you get out of the Beltway, or leave the offices of the Chamber of Commerce, the number of people in the U.S. who think it's a good idea to give legal status to illegal aliens, or more generally to increase immigration, is very small," Mr. Camarota said. Still, guest-worker proponents say that if they get a chance to explain their plans, they can win over the public. "The difference here is some people see this being portrayed by the Pat Buchanans of the world as launching a new wave of immigration, whereas we see it more as acknowledging the wave that has already happened," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who is sponsoring one of the leading guest-worker proposals pending in Congress. His proposal, which he is sponsoring along with two fellow Arizona Republicans - Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jim Kolbe - would allow an illegal alien to pay a fine and apply for legal work status and after completing two terms, they could apply for permanent legal residence. Mr. Flake pointed to a poll of Arizona voters that found after Mr. Flake's proposal was explained, it garnered 59 percent support. The poll was conducted by KAET-TV and the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. And Don Stewart, spokesman for Sen. John Cornyn, the Texas Republican who has his own guest-worker program pending in the Senate, said he expects the public perception to change now that the president has put something specific on the table. "People have been polling in the abstract, now they're polling on something specific, and the numbers will change accordingly," Mr. Stewart said. Mr. Bush's guest-worker proposal closely tracks the bill Mr. Cornyn is sponsoring in the Senate. Even proponents like Mr. Kolbe said they don't expect to pass their bill this year. "It's probably likely we will not see legislative action before 2005," he said. Rep. Steve King, Iowa Republican and an opponent of the proposals, said sufficient opposition exists among rank-and-file Republicans on key committees that Mr. Bush would have to make a serious effort to convince Congress to act. "I think it'll take a push from leadership, and it just depends on whether the president can put enough leverage on the speaker and on [House Majority Leader] Tom DeLay," Mr. King said. Mr. King said whatever happens, he and other Republicans will fight it. "I can tell you it will be a gloves-off fight all the way through," he said. Mr. DeLay last night said he supports a guest-worker program to grow the economy and enhance security, but said he remains "skeptical that [Mr. Bush´s plan] constitutes sound public policy." "I applaud President Bush for his leadership and courage in addressing this complex and difficult issue, but I have heartfelt concerns about allowing illegal immigrants into a U.S. guest-worker program because it seems to reward illegal behavior," he said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oliver Costich
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    On 8 Jan 2004 15:23:03 -0800, [email protected] (Kopys)
    wrote:
    So Observer -you would rather have jobs move out of the US then and loosepurchasing power for Americans?
    How do you move lawn mowing, house cleaning, meat packing, lettuce
    picking, etc. out of the country
    "observer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<3wgLb.385[email protected] able.rogers.com>...
    Wrong, I care. I and friends are going to call our US Senators and Representatives and let them know that we oppose any law that grant any form of amnesty to illegal immigrant. "August1229" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    Asked in a poll, they will oppose it, sure. But in the long run, they
    don't
    care much. And anyone they know personally that they like, they complain
    if
    that person has problems. Americans in general like immigrants
    personally, but
    not in the abstract.

    Leave a comment:


  • Roger
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    Washington Times = Moonie Bull****


    "Steve Dufour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected] om...
    Americans oppose increase in immigration By Stephen Dinan THE WASHINGTON TIMES Most Americans adamantly oppose both increasing the amount of legal immigration to the United States and legalizing those immigrants now here illegally, the two key elements in President Bush's immigration overhaul proposal. On no other foreign policy issue do average Americans disagree more with government and business leaders and other "elites" than on immigration. "The number of people who want immigration increased is very small," said Steven A. Camarota, research director for the Center for Immigration Studies. "If 55 or 60 percent of the public wants less immigration, a third wants it the same and 7 percent wants it more - [Mr. Bush] is going for that 7 percent." The issue cuts across party lines, but already yesterday opponents in Congress were lining up. Mr. Bush proposed allowing illegal aliens already in the United States and foreign residents to apply for legal work status here, as long as an employer has certified he would employ the person and no U.S. worker is readily available. The president also proposed increasing the level of overall legal immigration, and though he didn't specifically guarantee that the guest workers would get legal permanent residence, members of Congress said they expect the two will have to be tied together somehow. But a Gallup poll from June found only 13 percent of Americans thought immigration should be increased, while 47 percent said it should be reduced and 37 percent said it should be kept at its present level. Opposition has remained high for several years. A Zogby poll from 2002 found that 58 percent of Americans wanted to reduce immigration, 65 percent disagreed with amnesty and 68 percent felt the United States should deploy military troops to the border to curb illegal immigration. Meanwhile, 60 percent of Americans believe present immigration levels are a "critical threat to the vital interests of the United States." But when the poll asked the same question of government officials, business leaders and journalists, only 14 percent thought so. When asked whether immigration levels should be kept the same, increased or reduced, 55 percent of Americans opted for a reduction, while 18 percent of the poll's sample of "elites" thought so, according to an analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies. Also, proposals that are seen as soft on illegal immigrants have come back to bite politicians before. Just last year, California Gov. Gray Davis was hurt in his bid to stave off a recall when he signed a bill to let illegal immigrants obtain state driver's licenses. The new governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, pushed a repeal of that provision through the legislature. An exit poll commissioned by the Federation for American Immigration Reform showed that 30 percent of California voters said they were somewhat or much more likely to vote against Mr. Davis because he signed the law. Only 8 percent of voters were somewhat or much more likely to support him because of it. "How did Davis get it so wrong?" Mr. Camarota said. "The reason is, he and people like George Bush live in an echo chamber of elites, where the received wisdom on immigration is all the same." "But once you get out of the Beltway, or leave the offices of the Chamber of Commerce, the number of people in the U.S. who think it's a good idea to give legal status to illegal aliens, or more generally to increase immigration, is very small," Mr. Camarota said. Still, guest-worker proponents say that if they get a chance to explain their plans, they can win over the public. "The difference here is some people see this being portrayed by the Pat Buchanans of the world as launching a new wave of immigration, whereas we see it more as acknowledging the wave that has already happened," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who is sponsoring one of the leading guest-worker proposals pending in Congress. His proposal, which he is sponsoring along with two fellow Arizona Republicans - Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jim Kolbe - would allow an illegal alien to pay a fine and apply for legal work status and after completing two terms, they could apply for permanent legal residence. Mr. Flake pointed to a poll of Arizona voters that found after Mr. Flake's proposal was explained, it garnered 59 percent support. The poll was conducted by KAET-TV and the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. And Don Stewart, spokesman for Sen. John Cornyn, the Texas Republican who has his own guest-worker program pending in the Senate, said he expects the public perception to change now that the president has put something specific on the table. "People have been polling in the abstract, now they're polling on something specific, and the numbers will change accordingly," Mr. Stewart said. Mr. Bush's guest-worker proposal closely tracks the bill Mr. Cornyn is sponsoring in the Senate. Even proponents like Mr. Kolbe said they don't expect to pass their bill this year. "It's probably likely we will not see legislative action before 2005," he said. Rep. Steve King, Iowa Republican and an opponent of the proposals, said sufficient opposition exists among rank-and-file Republicans on key committees that Mr. Bush would have to make a serious effort to convince Congress to act. "I think it'll take a push from leadership, and it just depends on whether the president can put enough leverage on the speaker and on [House Majority Leader] Tom DeLay," Mr. King said. Mr. King said whatever happens, he and other Republicans will fight it. "I can tell you it will be a gloves-off fight all the way through," he said. Mr. DeLay last night said he supports a guest-worker program to grow the economy and enhance security, but said he remains "skeptical that [Mr. Bush´s plan] constitutes sound public policy." "I applaud President Bush for his leadership and courage in addressing this complex and difficult issue, but I have heartfelt concerns about allowing illegal immigrants into a U.S. guest-worker program because it seems to reward illegal behavior," he said.

    Leave a comment:


  • supernav
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration


    Trust me. American restaurants and grocery stores and department stores
    can't wait for Bush's announcements.



    All the $9-$15/hr waitresses, chefs and clerks will all be layed off
    overnight and replaced with legal $5.50/hr mexicans.



    There won't be a SINGLE american-born worker in any of those service
    stores in any of the 50 states.



    Good god it's gonna get ugly.



    (think about it. Why would you have 80 employees in walmart making
    $12/hr, when there's 3,000 mexicans outside your door now with valid
    gc's willing to work for min. wage?).



    -= nav =-


    --
    Posted via http://britishexpats.com

    Leave a comment:


  • observer
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    Why would I want to give up my job to an illegal alien who is willing to
    take 50% off my pay check? Illegal aliens are going to lower my purchasing
    power NOT the other way around.


    "Kopys" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected] om...
    So Observer - you would rather have jobs move out of the US then and loose purchasing power for Americans? "observer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected] able.rogers.com>...
    Wrong, I care. I and friends are going to call our US Senators and Representatives and
    let
    them know that we oppose any law that grant any form of amnesty to
    illegal
    immigrant. "August1229" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    Asked in a poll, they will oppose it, sure. But in the long run, they
    don't
    care much. And anyone they know personally that they like, they
    complain
    if
    that person has problems. Americans in general like immigrants
    personally, but
    not in the abstract.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kocourkov
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration


    Purchasing power arguments being put forward by people who don't even
    understand the term. America needs to save, cut government spending and
    cut trade deficits. All the low paid illegals in the world won't be able
    to put that right if the crap hits the fan and the US economy starts
    doing what the Argentine economy did.



    Why support people who've deliberately broken the law while others
    have to wait? No, this proposal by Chimpy should finally get some of
    you to pull your heads out of the sand and see what's really going on
    around you.


    --
    Posted via http://britishexpats.com

    Leave a comment:


  • Kopys
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    So Observer -

    you would rather have jobs move out of the US then and loose
    purchasing power for Americans?

    "observer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] able.rogers.com>...
    Wrong, I care. I and friends are going to call our US Senators and Representatives and let them know that we oppose any law that grant any form of amnesty to illegal immigrant. "August1229" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    Asked in a poll, they will oppose it, sure. But in the long run, they
    don't
    care much. And anyone they know personally that they like, they complain
    if
    that person has problems. Americans in general like immigrants
    personally, but
    not in the abstract.

    Leave a comment:


  • ¡666
    replied
    Americans oppose increase in immigration

    Yup... Terror Alert Level HIGH and...

    talk of legalizing 10 to 18 MILLION illegal felons and THEIR FAMILIES!

    A bit much.

    Steve Dufour wrote:
    Americans oppose increase in immigration By Stephen Dinan THE WASHINGTON TIMES Most Americans adamantly oppose both increasing the amount of legal immigration to the United States and legalizing those immigrants now here illegally, the two key elements in President Bush's immigration overhaul proposal. On no other foreign policy issue do average Americans disagree more with government and business leaders and other "elites" than on immigration. "The number of people who want immigration increased is very small," said Steven A. Camarota, research director for the Center for Immigration Studies. "If 55 or 60 percent of the public wants less immigration, a third wants it the same and 7 percent wants it more — [Mr. Bush] is going for that 7 percent." The issue cuts across party lines, but already yesterday opponents in Congress were lining up. Mr. Bush proposed allowing illegal aliens already in the United States and foreign residents to apply for legal work status here, as long as an employer has certified he would employ the person and no U.S. worker is readily available. The president also proposed increasing the level of overall legal immigration, and though he didn't specifically guarantee that the guest workers would get legal permanent residence, members of Congress said they expect the two will have to be tied together somehow. But a Gallup poll from June found only 13 percent of Americans thought immigration should be increased, while 47 percent said it should be reduced and 37 percent said it should be kept at its present level. Opposition has remained high for several years. A Zogby poll from 2002 found that 58 percent of Americans wanted to reduce immigration, 65 percent disagreed with amnesty and 68 percent felt the United States should deploy military troops to the border to curb illegal immigration. Meanwhile, 60 percent of Americans believe present immigration levels are a "critical threat to the vital interests of the United States." But when the poll asked the same question of government officials, business leaders and journalists, only 14 percent thought so. When asked whether immigration levels should be kept the same, increased or reduced, 55 percent of Americans opted for a reduction, while 18 percent of the poll's sample of "elites" thought so, according to an analysis by the Center for Immigration Studies. Also, proposals that are seen as soft on illegal immigrants have come back to bite politicians before. Just last year, California Gov. Gray Davis was hurt in his bid to stave off a recall when he signed a bill to let illegal immigrants obtain state driver's licenses. The new governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, pushed a repeal of that provision through the legislature. An exit poll commissioned by the Federation for American Immigration Reform showed that 30 percent of California voters said they were somewhat or much more likely to vote against Mr. Davis because he signed the law. Only 8 percent of voters were somewhat or much more likely to support him because of it. "How did Davis get it so wrong?" Mr. Camarota said. "The reason is, he and people like George Bush live in an echo chamber of elites, where the received wisdom on immigration is all the same." "But once you get out of the Beltway, or leave the offices of the Chamber of Commerce, the number of people in the U.S. who think it's a good idea to give legal status to illegal aliens, or more generally to increase immigration, is very small," Mr. Camarota said. Still, guest-worker proponents say that if they get a chance to explain their plans, they can win over the public. "The difference here is some people see this being portrayed by the Pat Buchanans of the world as launching a new wave of immigration, whereas we see it more as acknowledging the wave that has already happened," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who is sponsoring one of the leading guest-worker proposals pending in Congress. His proposal, which he is sponsoring along with two fellow Arizona Republicans — Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jim Kolbe — would allow an illegal alien to pay a fine and apply for legal work status and after completing two terms, they could apply for permanent legal residence. Mr. Flake pointed to a poll of Arizona voters that found after Mr. Flake's proposal was explained, it garnered 59 percent support. The poll was conducted by KAET-TV and the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University. And Don Stewart, spokesman for Sen. John Cornyn, the Texas Republican who has his own guest-worker program pending in the Senate, said he expects the public perception to change now that the president has put something specific on the table. "People have been polling in the abstract, now they're polling on something specific, and the numbers will change accordingly," Mr. Stewart said. Mr. Bush's guest-worker proposal closely tracks the bill Mr. Cornyn is sponsoring in the Senate. Even proponents like Mr. Kolbe said they don't expect to pass their bill this year. "It's probably likely we will not see legislative action before 2005," he said. Rep. Steve King, Iowa Republican and an opponent of the proposals, said sufficient opposition exists among rank-and-file Republicans on key committees that Mr. Bush would have to make a serious effort to convince Congress to act. "I think it'll take a push from leadership, and it just depends on whether the president can put enough leverage on the speaker and on [House Majority Leader] Tom DeLay," Mr. King said. Mr. King said whatever happens, he and other Republicans will fight it. "I can tell you it will be a gloves-off fight all the way through," he said. Mr. DeLay last night said he supports a guest-worker program to grow the economy and enhance security, but said he remains "skeptical that [Mr. Bush´s plan] constitutes sound public policy." "I applaud President Bush for his leadership and courage in addressing this complex and difficult issue, but I have heartfelt concerns about allowing illegal immigrants into a U.S. guest-worker program because it seems to reward illegal behavior," he said.

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