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  • Andre Lieven
    started a topic Why Women Divorce

    Why Women Divorce


    http://www.angryharry.com/tgWhyWomenDivorce.htm
    24/10/03

    Why Women Divorce
    (Letter in Newspaper)

    I am somewhat surprised that Dr. Marmoreo would choose to ignore the
    overwhelming evidence that the ultimate reason for filing for divorce
    is to gain unobstructed power and control over the children and their
    support paying parents.

    Most divorces are initiated by women. By far the most comprehensive
    study on the reasons why women file for divorce was conducted by
    Margaret Brinig and Douglas Allen, both economists.

    They analysed all of the 46,000 divorce certificates, with complete
    data, that were issued during 1995 in Connecticut, Virginia and Oregon.
    Their findings were published in a paper under the title "These Boots
    Are Made For Walking: Why Most Divorce Filers Are Women" (American
    Journal of Law and Economics, vol. 2, No 1, 2000 (pp126-169)

    Though the study was conducted according to the now mandatory "gender
    based analysis" principles (meaning that women have to be found to be
    the losers) the researchers conceded that most divorces are filed by
    women not because of abuse but because they are the ones who have the
    most to gain.

    Dr. Marmoreo would want us to believe that women walk out because of
    violence. In stark contrast to her perception Brinig and Allen found
    that most divorces on basis of the loosely defined term "cruelty",
    which presumably includes violence, were granted in Virginia, yet
    even there they constituted only 6% of all divorces that were filed
    by women.

    Interestingly,the media reviews that I read used the term "violence"
    instead of the original term "cruelty" (see for example John Tierney
    in the New York Times, July 15, 2000: "Divorce study finds more women
    are doing the dumping")

    In their draft, dated Sept. 16, 1998 and called "These Boots Are Made
    For Walking: Why Wives File for Divorce", Brinig and Allen wrote:
    "this paper considers women's filing as rational behavior, based on
    spouses' relative power in the marriage, their opportunities following
    divorce, and their anticipation of custody ..."

    They concluded: "Our results are consistent with our hypothesis that
    filing behavior is driven by self-interest at the time of divorce.
    Individuals file for divorce when there are marital assets that may
    be appropriated through divorce. Because the heavy investor can't
    easily move, the other party may be tempted to take advantage of the
    investor...

    We have found that who gets the children is a major component in
    deciding who files for divorce. Divorce, despite its many shortcomings,
    allows the woman to exercise control over household spending when she
    is awarded custody. If the court names her primary custodian, she
    makes most, if not all, of the major decisions regarding the child.

    As custodial parent, she will be able to spend the money the husband
    pays in child support exactly as she pleases-something she may not do
    during marriage [my note: consumer spending related research shows
    that women control the family spending and make the decisions in major,
    as well minor, purchases].

    Finally, though the court will usually have ordered visitation, she
    can exert some control over her former husband by regulating many,
    though not all, aspects of the time he spends with the child. In the
    extreme, she can even "poison" the child against the father.

    By making a preemptive filing, the wife may be able to secure rights
    such as child or spousal support that require court enforcement. When
    the wife files, she is often given temporary custody of the children.
    Temporary custody, like possession, tends to be "nine tenths of the
    law" and plays a role in the assignment of permanent custody,
    especially where the divorce does not occur for some time.

    We also note that no-fault (unilateral) divorce laws apparently do
    two things. They increase divorce filing rates generally, and they
    increase the percentage of women who file.

    The fact that women, more than men, take advantage of the easier exit,
    suggests that a return to a fault-based system will not advance women's
    goals."

    This is only one of the myriad of documents which document that in
    order to reduce the number of divorces we need to reintroduce fault
    into divorce, introduce the presumption of joint custody and do away
    with the transfer of money from one household to the next, under the
    guise of child support.

    "Child" supporting itself is a misnomer as it is now equated with
    support to the entire household where the child resides, as defined
    by the Federal Child Support Guidelines and interpreted by Madam
    Justice Rosalie Abella and other judges.

    It is of great concern that even the Globe and Mail, which used to
    at least make an effort to keep away from these kinds of propagandist
    articles, would now join the ranks of the yellow press.
    Sincerely,
    etc.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------





    --
    " I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
    The Man Prayer, Red Green.

  • LauraM
    replied
    And Why Men Divorce

    Clearly most of those who have posted replies do not know any hard working high income women divorced from less ambitious low income men in Kansas. I earned 3X what my ex earned during our 8 year marriage. He didn't even work for 1/3 of the marriage and it wasn't because he was caring for the children. He was "finding himself" and I was paying a babaysitter to watch the children during the hours I was working. When he finally got a job and I decided to take a one year sabatical from my job, he decided he didn't want to be married anymore (he had a boyfriend you see). He got 1/2 of all the marital assets, alimony, and joint custody (They love joint custody in Kansas.) He pays no child support because we have "equal" time with the kids. I buy their clothes, school supplies, you name it, because he doesn't - ever. I take the kids to doctor and dentist appointments and go to parent teacher meetings, because he doesn't. At his house my daughter does the laundry and cooks for her brothers and she calls me when there is no food in his house. Why do I put a smile on my face, do what needs to be done, and put up with this? Because there are no other options. Kansas courts love joint custody. All the "research" says it is best for kids to have lots of access to both parents, doesn't it? Some day when my kids are a bit older they will figure it out, and that is really why I put up with this ridiculus situation. Now tell me one more time how men are being taken advantage of?
    Last edited by LauraM; 07-13-2006, 01:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • notthesameme
    replied
    The fact that women, more than men, take advantage of the easier exit,
    I just went through this thread but honestly didn't read all the comments. My question is where are the statistics for this article? What was his sampling and for how long? What type of people were surveyed? in what tax bracket? (this makes a big difference)

    I filed for divorce after 24 1/2 years of marriage, and should have filed 10 or more years before that. I put up with his mental and verbal abuse for a long time, but that wasn't the final straw, I found out about his long time girlfriend. I knew over the years that he was cheating on me with many women, but didn't realize he had one for years. In fact while we were going to marriage counseling he was cheating on me (unknown to me at that time) AND blaming me for our marriage problems. I stayed and some could call it being a martyr for my daughters. I believe in my heart they would not have had the opportunities they do if I had left. In addition, I was not as strong as I am today and based on the events during my divorce, I probably couldn't have stood it (in fact he still bothers me, has people spy on me, etc. etc. (he believes I am his property till "death do us part") - and don't tell me to go to the sheriff - they sided with him (I guess it is a man thing or a small town and ignorant thing)). got off onto a tangent and could go on for pages but before I miss my point, I didn't take the easy way out and frankly wish I had.

    - and to make those men happy that think we women screw you over - I got screwed royally during my divorce . the judge gave him all kinds of concessions while assessing what I wanted at high values and his low AND allowing him after the papers were served to transfer some of his assets to his son (thereby not being part of 'our' estate) It did bother me for a while, but it was only hurting me and being honest I just had to chalk it up to the cost of divorce.

    Leave a comment:


  • Seeker
    replied
    Why Women Divorce

    "Doug Laidlaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    Communication problems was the most commonly cited cause for both men (33 per cent) and women (23 per cent).
    I wonder if any two people saying the cause is "communication problems"
    actually mean the same thing.
    It is a pretty broad term, afterall.

    --
    Ted


    Leave a comment:


  • Kaemcn
    replied
    What about women without kids...

    Hi,
    I was wondering if any one had the same type of statistics about why women who have no children get divorced. Is it money? Is it being unsatisfied? Is it lack of communication? Or is it still about control? Maybe it's about his control over her. Is it b/c of abuse?
    Any evidence out there or a general sense, pls let me know.
    Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • knoxy
    replied
    Why Women Divorce

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    "mariposas morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    Nine out of ten Americans believe the federal government has a responsibility to alleviate poverty. A strong majority believes that government should do more, not less, to help people move from welfare to work by providing skills needed to be self-sufficient. (Lake, Snell, actually with the prospect of inflation showing up the government will raise interest rates to increase unemployment and keep wages as low as possible
    But 10 out of 10 Europeans believe in perpetual motion machines, free lunches, the tooth fairy and SOCIALISM!
    You're really obsessed with this idea you have, that everyone in Europe
    believe in free lunches.

    --
    knoxy

    mhm34x10
    smeeter #6

    "The Internet is a gateway to get on the net."
    Bob Dole

    Leave a comment:


  • knoxy
    replied
    Why Women Divorce

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    In article <[email protected]> , knoxy <[email protected]cali.se> wrote:
    So? It doesn't mean they're wrong, or do you claim there are no homeless families in the U.S?
    Er, why not just have all the homeless then move to Sweden? I'm sure that their wonderful socialist system will have them up and running as productive citizens in no time! All the rest deleted until you can get around to answering that simple question. :-) regards, Mark Sobolewski
    Why would we want to take care of your homeless?
    We have enough problems taking care of our own, but at least we try to
    take care of them.

    --
    knoxy

    mhm34x10
    smeeter #6

    "The Internet is a gateway to get on the net."
    Bob Dole

    Leave a comment:


  • Doug Laidlaw
    replied
    Why Women Divorce

    krp wrote:
    "occupant" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    Quite. Its amusing that women have a rep for being good at communication, as a group, yet are terrible in communicating matters of relationships with men. Women are excellent at communicating period. You see when a woman communicates a message she means it.
    Horse ****!
    I think that what he meant was: if she has you in her sights, it is no use
    running.

    "My defences are down..." If you try it, you will agree that being
    miserable CAN be fun!

    Doug.
    --
    *** Number 178748389. Registered Linux User No. 277548.
    A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends.
    - Baltasar Gracian.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doug Laidlaw
    replied
    Why Women Divorce

    occupant wrote:
    Quite. Its amusing that women have a rep for being good at communication, as a group, yet are terrible in communicating matters of relationships with men. Women are excellent at communicating period. You see when a woman communicates a message she means it. Men can buy time but they can never buy a change. I have worked with lots of women and they always talk about how it had to be. The later I hear them say that the guy finally figured out I was serious. It gets no better or no worse than that. It is absolutely true that you should ever try to reason with a woman for the smallest reason, she simply isn't interested.
    Sounds like "she who must be obeyed."

    But the point is, that you have missed the point. Reasoning with a woman
    doesn't work because it is largely a man-thing. If you want to change a
    woman's mind, talk to her as a woman. Tell her why your idea suits HER
    better. Listen for why she wants to stick with her choice. Treat her as a
    worthwhile person, entitled to choose what is important for her.

    Logic needs a starting-point. It starts with a statement that we assume to
    be true, then proceeds from that. Often we men don't spell out our
    starting point - our assumptions. One assumption is that reason is more
    "true" than a woman's mind. That a woman who won't listen to reason is -
    well - unreasonable. Another is that what a man sees as important, a woman
    should see as important. Toss both those assumptions out the window and
    listen to her say it in her own language. Look for the assumptions she
    uses. Don't call them ridiculous. They are merely different. Reason is a
    tool of language, not a fundamental law of the Universe.

    You might even learn something.

    Doug.
    --
    *** Number 178748389. Registered Linux User No. 277548.
    Happiness is nothing more than good health and a bad memory.
    - Albert Schweitzer.
    Not a bad memory - a selective memory. Remember only the good.

    Leave a comment:


  • - krp
    replied
    Why Women Divorce


    "occupant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    Quite. Its amusing that women have a rep for being good at communication, as a group, yet are terrible in communicating matters of relationships with men. Women are excellent at communicating period. You see when a woman communicates a message she means it.
    Horse ****!


    Leave a comment:


  • Bock
    replied
    Why Women Divorce

    > Quite. Its amusing that women have a rep for being good at communication,
    as a group, yet are terrible in communicating matters of relationships with men.
    Women are excellent at communicating period. You see when a woman
    communicates
    a message she means it. Men can buy time but they can never buy a
    change.

    I have worked with lots of women and they always talk about how it had
    to be. The later
    I hear them say that the guy finally figured out I was serious.

    It gets no better or no worse than that.

    It is absolutely true that you should ever try to reason with a woman
    for the smallest reason, she simply
    isn't interested.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark Sobolewski
    replied
    Why Women Divorce

    In article <[email protected]> ,
    knoxy <[email protected]> wrote:
    So? It doesn't mean they're wrong, or do you claim there are no homeless families in the U.S?
    Er, why not just have all the homeless then move to Sweden? I'm
    sure that their wonderful socialist system will have them
    up and running as productive citizens in no time!


    All the rest deleted until you can get around to answering that
    simple question. :-)

    regards,
    Mark Sobolewski

    Leave a comment:


  • Lady Chatterly
    replied
    Why Women Divorce

    In article <[email protected]> bangporn
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    "mariposas morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"<[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]
    In article <[email protected]>, "krp" <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    "mariposas morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] >> Nine out of ten Americans believe the federal government has a >> responsibility to alleviate poverty. A strong majority believes that >> government should do more, not less, to help people move from welfare
    to
    >> work by providing skills needed to be self-sufficient. (Lake, Snell, > actually with the prospect of inflation showing up > the government will raise interest rates to increase unemployment > and keep wages as low as possible But 10 out of 10 Europeans believe in perpetual motion machines,
    free
    lunches, the tooth fairy and SOCIALISM! is that worse than a virtual slave under capitialism?
    Under capitalism you have a choice, under socialism you do NOT!
    Million children had been diagnosed with mental disorders and placed
    in special education, which found that.

    --
    Lady Chatterly

    "If I were Lady Chatterly I'd probably consult a lawyer over the
    libellous claim that she supports the pedo-freak." -- Peter J Ross














    Leave a comment:


  • - krp
    replied
    Why Women Divorce


    "mariposas morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    In article <[email protected]>, "krp" <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    "mariposas morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > Nine out of ten Americans believe the federal government has a> responsibility to alleviate poverty. A strong majority believes that> government should do more, not less, to help people move from welfare
    to
    > work by providing skills needed to be self-sufficient. (Lake, Snell,
    actually with the prospect of inflation showing up the government will raise interest rates to increase unemployment and keep wages as low as possible
    But 10 out of 10 Europeans believe in perpetual motion machines,
    free
    lunches, the tooth fairy and SOCIALISM! is that worse than a virtual slave under capitialism?

    Under capitalism you have a choice, under socialism you do NOT!


    Leave a comment:


  • Lady Chatterly
    replied
    Why Women Divorce

    In article <[email protected]> pangbore <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    Oh really. You ANGRILY deny that you are bitter at your ex. And you saythings like; "I don't care about what someone who showed no disregard to hisdaughters feelings, feel however." You condemn me for talking about my ex -YET while I discuss her problems you don't see me saying "she had no regardof the feelings of others" When I said my first wife destroyed by diplomasand the like I was stating a fact not condemning her for it. I did say shedid some evil things just not that SHE was evil.
    They are only pretending to be bitter at their ex. What is it to you?
    As to my morals - - - I kept my wedding vows - I didn't abuse my wife ormy kids.............I didn't steal or break the law. I have kept my word topeople and to my family. At least they believe I have.
    Well, it seems you've made somewhat of a quantum leap here. Do you do
    that on a regular basis. Or is this time special?

    --
    Lady Chatterly

    "Lady Chatterly is a bot, making its way all throughout usenet. It's
    amusing to see some of the reactions it gets in the Google archives."
    -- Asiya

    Leave a comment:

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