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  • #16
    I dont think a second job would help, unless it's under the table. Once they find out he's working a second job they'll be after that money too!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Tahari
      Op's figures are based on his high paying gig...not th 1200. He obviously didn't go in for a mod once he lost that job. Therefore the courts will see it as it didn't set him back because he didn't ask for a mod.

      His chances are slim with it being lowered that much.
      If his CS is figured incorrectly, it WILL be lowered. It doesn't matter that he managed to live while he was paying too much. It's black & white, the CS is a % of his income. Unless it can be proven that he is intentionally underemployed, they will lower it to reflect his income now. Getting a second income because his CS is figured wrong doesn't help the proble. If he did then his income would be higher therefore so would his CS.

      Even when his CS is lowered, that doesn't mean that the garnishment will be lowered. If he is in arrears, they will take that out of his check too until it's payed off.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by ceara
        If his CS is figured incorrectly, it WILL be lowered. It doesn't matter that he managed to live while he was paying too much. It's black & white, the CS is a % of his income. Unless it can be proven that he is intentionally underemployed, they will lower it to reflect his income now. Getting a second income because his CS is figured wrong doesn't help the proble. If he did then his income would be higher therefore so would his CS.

        Even when his CS is lowered, that doesn't mean that the garnishment will be lowered. If he is in arrears, they will take that out of his check too until it's payed off.
        As i said...slim. They will look at the fact that it had gone on as long as it did. They will see as tho he has funds elsewhere. Judges weren't born yesterday. They see so many stories such as these. People hiding money etc. If this is the case with this one who has 3 different orders all at the rate of the high salary how has he managed? They won't look at him not being able to feed himself..they will be looking out for the kids he created.

        It doesn't look good OP...but if you can get a good lawyer hey ya never know!
        Last edited by Tahari; 01-21-2006, 10:13 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Tahari
          As i said...slim. They will look at the fact that it had gone on as long as it did. They will see as tho he has funds elsewhere. Judges weren't born yesterday. They see so many stories such as these. People hiding money etc. If this is the case with this one who has 3 different orders all at the rate of the high salary how has he managed? They won't look at him not being able to feed himself..they will be looking out for the kids he created.

          It doesn't look good OP...but if you can get a good lawyer hey ya never know!
          Obviously he hasn't managed. He is behind on the support. CS isn't set by what a person thinks someone might possibly be making. It's based on PROVEN facts. It is a FACT that this mans CS is set to high. Even in cases where a person DOES make the full CS payments and manages to "live", the amount can still be lowered. Most of the times they are managing because they are receiving additional money that is not considered INCOME, such as a spouses income, borrowing money from friends an family or moving in with a roommate. The court CAN'T and WON'T use any of these things as income made by the NCP. If the NCP is able to earn more money, the court can take that into consideration. If he has a PHD in quantum physics, yet he's working at a drive-thru window for minimum wage, the court can set his CS based on what he would make working in his field. If he is working full time in his regular profession, they wouldn't raise his income capacity just because he could go out and get a 2nd or 3rd job.

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          • #20
            OK, it's really simple. Illinois bases child support on a flat percentage of the NCP's net income. Period. They don't look at the CP's income at all.

            When they award child support, they should take into consideration any prior orders for support and subract that amount from your monthly income. Using your examples of what you pay above for child number 1, 2 and 3:

            Child #1: Child support is based off of $1200 per month income. $240.00 per month child support.

            Child #2: Court would take your $1200 a month income and deduct that $240 off of it, and calculate your child support based on income of $960.00 per month income. Child support should be: $192.00 for 2nd child.

            Child #3: Court would take the orders for $240 per month AND $192 per month, deduct that from $1200 per month, and your child support for child #3 would be based on income of $768 per month. Child support should be $154 per month.

            My question is this... is that $1200 your NET or GROSS income, because Illinois uses a percentage of NET income in determining child support. If your CS awards are based off of gross income, then the calculations are inherently incorrect.

            Tahari, your way of thinking is wrong. They're taking half his pay (which is all they can take by law) and he's still not meeting his CS obligations and going into arrears each month even though he IS paying the maximum the law can take from him. He has a prima facia case for filing for modification based on that fact alone. Just because he "let it go this long" doesn't mean he won't get a modification. I know of a man whos situation is very similar to the OP's. His CS obligation was set when he was making $12 an hour. Shortly thereafter, he lost that job due to layoff. He didn't know his rights, and thought he had to wait for 3 years before filing, as that's what he was told. He didn't know that since his income had dropped he could file at any time and not have to wait for 3 years. So, he waited the 3 years and then filed. During those 3 years, he couldn't find employment making anywhere near $12 an hour (the $12 an hour job was a factory job where he'd had some senority, thus a higher rate of pay). They were taking half his pay every payday and he was still going in arrears each month because he couldn't meet that $12 an hour job CS amount. He went into arrears every month for 3 years, even though they were taking all they could by law. When he went to court for his modification, the court lowered his support by $240 per month based on his current job, and his past 3 years tax returns showing he'd not made that $12 an hour in 3 years. Judge didn't care "how long it had gone on", the fact is that based on his income and the guidelines, his child support should be X amount and the judge awarded that amount. Just so happens that it was $240 a month less than what he'd been paying. If his income had went up, the judge would have done the same thing. Looked at his current income and awarded CS based on that raise in income and the guidelines.

            Telling someone to get a second job is just an asinine suggestion as that is counted as income in child support calculations too, and he'd be no better off than he is now.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Whyte Noise
              OK, it's really simple. Illinois bases child support on a flat percentage of the NCP's net income. Period. They don't look at the CP's income at all.

              When they award child support, they should take into consideration any prior orders for support and subract that amount from your monthly income. Using your examples of what you pay above for child number 1, 2 and 3:

              Child #1: Child support is based off of $1200 per month income. $240.00 per month child support.

              Child #2: Court would take your $1200 a month income and deduct that $240 off of it, and calculate your child support based on income of $960.00 per month income. Child support should be: $192.00 for 2nd child.

              Child #3: Court would take the orders for $240 per month AND $192 per month, deduct that from $1200 per month, and your child support for child #3 would be based on income of $768 per month. Child support should be $154 per month.

              My question is this... is that $1200 your NET or GROSS income, because Illinois uses a percentage of NET income in determining child support. If your CS awards are based off of gross income, then the calculations are inherently incorrect.

              Tahari, your way of thinking is wrong. They're taking half his pay (which is all they can take by law) and he's still not meeting his CS obligations and going into arrears each month even though he IS paying the maximum the law can take from him. He has a prima facia case for filing for modification based on that fact alone. Just because he "let it go this long" doesn't mean he won't get a modification. I know of a man whos situation is very similar to the OP's. His CS obligation was set when he was making $12 an hour. Shortly thereafter, he lost that job due to layoff. He didn't know his rights, and thought he had to wait for 3 years before filing, as that's what he was told. He didn't know that since his income had dropped he could file at any time and not have to wait for 3 years. So, he waited the 3 years and then filed. During those 3 years, he couldn't find employment making anywhere near $12 an hour (the $12 an hour job was a factory job where he'd had some senority, thus a higher rate of pay). They were taking half his pay every payday and he was still going in arrears each month because he couldn't meet that $12 an hour job CS amount. He went into arrears every month for 3 years, even though they were taking all they could by law. When he went to court for his modification, the court lowered his support by $240 per month based on his current job, and his past 3 years tax returns showing he'd not made that $12 an hour in 3 years. Judge didn't care "how long it had gone on", the fact is that based on his income and the guidelines, his child support should be X amount and the judge awarded that amount. Just so happens that it was $240 a month less than what he'd been paying. If his income had went up, the judge would have done the same thing. Looked at his current income and awarded CS based on that raise in income and the guidelines.

              Telling someone to get a second job is just an asinine suggestion as that is counted as income in child support calculations too, and he'd be no better off than he is now.
              Thank you for trying to clear things up for the OP. I would hate for him to continue getting farther & farther behind based on bad advice.

              Comment


              • #22
                Telling someone to get a second job is just an asinine suggestion as that is counted as income in child support calculations too

                I think not. Due to the fact that the rate teh amounts are being deducted is based on his old salary. Just because he is making less money doesn't give him automatic outs of the obligation.

                If he was making 50k orginally....and now making 25k...do you think they would change his rate due to him picking up a lower paying job?

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                • #23
                  Let me explain this a little and see if it helps. When I originally had support figured after the second divorce, I was making about 26,000 a year. So during this divorce I was just made to pay the same amount as the first divorce's order. Within a month of the second divorce, Ex-1 decided that she needed more money, so she complained to the state and they decided to raise hers without considering the second divorce's order for support. So now X-1 has hers hire than X-2 has her support order. Now shortly after that, everything in my life takes a downhill slide. I take a different job hoping for more money. It doesn't work out. At this time I lose my job and am without work for the first time in my life for about 4 months. During this time the state has assumed responsibility for child support payment record keeping; taking it away from the county level. There is a mixup and the state tells me that I haven't paid for X-1's support for 6 years, which I assure you I have. Then the state decides to remedy this by taking all my income tax return for the next few years. By the time I get them straightened out and prove that I had payed all along, I am now in arrears because of being out of work for 4 months. I should have dealt with this then, but I was busy with other things at the time. Now because of the "other things" I was busy with, I am only able to get a halfway decent job making about 20,000 if I'm lucky. This is something that I wish I could change, but it will take time to get back into a better job. So, none of this was because I made cash on the side and didn't claim it. I hope this clears a few things up.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Tahari
                    Telling someone to get a second job is just an asinine suggestion as that is counted as income in child support calculations too

                    I think not. Due to the fact that the rate teh amounts are being deducted is based on his old salary. Just because he is making less money doesn't give him automatic outs of the obligation.

                    If he was making 50k orginally....and now making 25k...do you think they would change his rate due to him picking up a lower paying job?
                    As long as he didn't take a lower paying job specifically for the purpose of having child support reduced they WILL lower the support.

                    The economy SUCKS right now. If he HAS no control over the fact that he makes less money now, that CAN'T and WON'T be held against him. People get laid off every day and spend MONTHS looking for a new job. Do you think they should be forced into poverty over something that they have no control over?

                    This is obviously an on going situation for this man. He didn't take a lower paying job to get out of paying CS. If he did, he wouldn't have waited so long to have it modified.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by disavowed
                      Let me explain this a little and see if it helps. When I originally had support figured after the second divorce, I was making about 26,000 a year. So during this divorce I was just made to pay the same amount as the first divorce's order. Within a month of the second divorce, Ex-1 decided that she needed more money, so she complained to the state and they decided to raise hers without considering the second divorce's order for support. So now X-1 has hers hire than X-2 has her support order. Now shortly after that, everything in my life takes a downhill slide. I take a different job hoping for more money. It doesn't work out. At this time I lose my job and am without work for the first time in my life for about 4 months. During this time the state has assumed responsibility for child support payment record keeping; taking it away from the county level. There is a mixup and the state tells me that I haven't paid for X-1's support for 6 years, which I assure you I have. Then the state decides to remedy this by taking all my income tax return for the next few years. By the time I get them straightened out and prove that I had payed all along, I am now in arrears because of being out of work for 4 months. I should have dealt with this then, but I was busy with other things at the time. Now because of the "other things" I was busy with, I am only able to get a halfway decent job making about 20,000 if I'm lucky. This is something that I wish I could change, but it will take time to get back into a better job. So, none of this was because I made cash on the side and didn't claim it. I hope this clears a few things up.

                      Were you receiving unemployment? Does any of this include alimony? Good grief you're in knee deep.

                      If you do go down to court and request possibly a temp mod they may take into consideration your issue. If you can request copies of the payments you've been making all these years and a possible review...you might actually be owed something back.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tahari
                        I think not. Due to the fact that the rate teh amounts are being deducted is based on his old salary. Just because he is making less money doesn't give him automatic outs of the obligation.

                        If he was making 50k orginally....and now making 25k...do you think they would change his rate due to him picking up a lower paying job?
                        It doesn't matter what you think. The law is the law, and income from ALL sources (including second jobs) are taken into account when calculating child support. He's already asked for a review, so if he got a 2nd job, that extra income would be included in the review and would be used to figure a new child support amount.

                        No one said that just because he's making less it gives him an "automatic out". He's taking the proper steps and has filed for a review.

                        And yup, if he picked up that lower paying job because that's all he could find/get, I most certainly DO think they'd change his CS amount. As long as a person isn't willfully unemployed/underemployed then the courts generally do lower the CS amount.

                        And I agree, he IS in knee deep. CSE doesn't know their *** from a hole in the ground in most cases.
                        Last edited by Whyte Noise; 01-22-2006, 07:25 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Whyte Noise
                          It doesn't matter what you think. The law is the law, and income from ALL sources (including second jobs) are taken into account when calculating child support. He's already asked for a review, so if he got a 2nd job, that extra income would be included in the review and would be used to figure a new child support amount.

                          No one said that just because he's making less it gives him an "automatic out". He's taking the proper steps and has filed for a review.

                          And yup, if he picked up that lower paying job because that's all he could find/get, I most certainly DO think they'd change his CS amount. As long as a person isn't willfully unemployed/underemployed then the courts generally do lower the CS amount.

                          And I agree, he IS in knee deep. CSE doesn't know their *** from a hole in the ground in most cases.
                          Well i am in another state and that hasn't occurred in my case. Ex has taken a lower paying position twice now and is still being hit by the higher rate he'd originally left so in some cases...they don't budge just because they can find a mcdonald's job.

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                          • #28
                            Were you receiving unemployment? Does any of this include alimony? Good grief you're in knee deep.
                            No I did not file for unemployment during any of the time I was out of work. And no, there is no alimony involved. I just didn't deal with everything that was happening to me when I was should have.
                            Last edited by disavowed; 01-24-2006, 01:04 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Telling someone to get a second job is just an asinine suggestion as that is counted as income in child support calculations too

                              I think not. Due to the fact that the rate teh amounts are being deducted is based on his old salary. Just because he is making less money doesn't give him automatic outs of the obligation.

                              If he was making 50k orginally....and now making 25k...do you think they would change his rate due to him picking up a lower paying job?
                              For the record, I did not take a lower paying job to reduce my child support.

                              If I make more, pay more.
                              If I make less, too bad.

                              Is that how you see it?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by disavowed
                                For the record, I did not take a lower paying job to reduce my child support.

                                If I make more, pay more.
                                If I make less, too bad.

                                Is that how you see it?
                                If you make more it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to pay more. You pay what is determined by the judge/magistrate. You're set with an amount when you go into court. What has happend in your case due to not following up with the courts you're now in knee deep. It was your responsibility to head to the courts when your circumstances changed yet you didn't. You also didn't file for unemployment which could've helped out a little bit because they would've been deducting CS out of that.

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