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Denying Visitation Minnesota

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  • Denying Visitation Minnesota

    My husband and I have sole physical custody of his son and my husband and his son's mother have joint legal custody. She is not happy about losing custody in court and has been very difficult to communicate with regarding the child. She has court ordered unsupervised visitation conditioned on my many things because she has a lot of mental health issues and chemical abuse issues. We have been trying to be patient with her and work things out with her because we want this to be as positive as possible. She has managed to cause numerious problems and refuse to provide verification that she hads met her conditions for visitation. When ever we bring it up she gets denfensive and says that if we dont bring him as outlined in the order for parenting time she will take us to court for contempt.
    Another issue that we have is emotional abuse that we are sure now that is occuring durning her visitation. Two days ago my husband brought his son in for a hair cut and let him pick it out. It was very cute because they both got matching hair cuts. His son was so proud and loved his hair cut and thought it was neat that Daddy had the same one. He went to his mothers house for a six hour visit and came back with his head shaved completely bald and we were told by her transportation provider that she did it because she was angry at us for his hair cut. Can she do this? People told me that since we have sole physical custody we make his day to day desicions and she had no right to do what she did. He should be returned in the condition that he was dropped off to her. He also cried when he told us what she did and said he didnt like his "new haircut". I think that this emotional and physical abuse. Any advice...

  • #2
    WE don't have custody unless it is specifically spelled out in the court order. Dad has custody. Mom still has joint legal custody, therefore she has equal say in decisions concerning their child.

    While it may not have been very nice, she had every right to have his hair cut if she did not like the hair cut he was sporting. Unless the court order states that the child must be returned in the exact condition as he left, then nope, she doesn't have to do that either. My son hates to have his hair cut and cries every time. It is in no way abuse that I force him to have his hair cut.

    Your husband must abide by the court order as written, no matter what. If he has concerns that she is not fit to spend time with their child or that is not in compliance with the court order, he will have to take her back to court. Dad does not have the right to dictate how, when, or where visitation will take place. The court order spells that out. He must follow the court order. If he does not, she is well within her rights to take him to court for contempt.

    She does not have to deal with you or your decisions in any matter.
    HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
    How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
    (unique up on him)
    How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
    (same way)

    Comment


    • #3
      Well she has other conditions on her parenting time being unsupervised and she hasnt been fulfilling those either. Like I said we are in no way shape or form trying to dictate anything. If she has an equal right to make a decision about a hair cut then she cant dictate that either by shaving his head completley bald without Dads knowledge right? Joint legal in our order specifies decisions regarding health, medical, and dental. It is explained in great detail, doesnt mention clothes we buy or hair cuts that we pay for. Many definitions that I found of sole physcial custody is the authority to make day to day desicions, like a hair cut..?

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      • #4
        Quote:
        She has court ordered unsupervised visitation conditioned on my many things because she has a lot of mental health issues and chemical abuse issues.

        What are these conditions? Is she in violation of these conditions, and can you prove it? Your husbands only option in protecting his child (if he feels this is warranted) is to prove she has not met these conditions.

        What exactly do the custody papers say the father should do - when outlining what happens if she does not meet these conditions for visitation?

        While the haircut incident is within her rights due to joint legal custody - it is something that you need to document well - with pictures and a journal. If your case were to go back to court at a later date, forcing her son to have a haircut he did not want MAY be considered by the judge (if they are investigating her mental capacity and treatment of the child).

        This was the case in our custody hearing, when my step-daughters mother physically forced her down to receive a hair cut. We had pictures showing her sheared off hair (which was obviously done at home, and done poorly). The judge asked the mother to describe the incident, and this did have an impact on his judgement (as well as many other factors).

        God bless you,
        Amy

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kris23 View Post
          Well she has other conditions on her parenting time being unsupervised and she hasnt been fulfilling those either. Like I said we are in no way shape or form trying to dictate anything. If she has an equal right to make a decision about a hair cut then she cant dictate that either by shaving his head completley bald without Dads knowledge right? Joint legal in our order specifies decisions regarding health, medical, and dental. It is explained in great detail, doesnt mention clothes we buy or hair cuts that we pay for. Many definitions that I found of sole physcial custody is the authority to make day to day desicions, like a hair cut..?
          Sole physical custody only allows Dad to dictate where the child resides. LEGAL custody is what gives the parents permission to make decisions for their child.

          Mom and Dad (at this point) have equal rights to decide how Junior will wear his hair, what doctor he will go to, what med. procedures will be performed, etc. A haircut is NOT abuse. What she did may be mean (and my personal opinion is that it is) but it's not abuse. Dad dictated how he would wear his hair when he took Junior for a haricut without Mom's knowledge, permission, or consent...right? Mom has NOT lost her legal right to make decisions concerning her child. This is a co-parenting issue.

          Mom doesn't have to let him wear the clothes Dad provides while Junior is with her, either.

          Document the haircut for future reference. It may be one piece of 'evidence' added together to show a pattern. However, in and by itself, it's a non-issue.

          In the meantime, Dad can either shave his head so he and his son have the same haircut again (if that will make him feel better) or y'all can talk up how cool his buzz cut is. (for the record, my son has a very short buzz cut and it's adorable.)
          HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
          How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
          (unique up on him)
          How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
          (same way)

          Comment


          • #6
            Her conditions are that she maintain sobriety and provide proof of attendance at weekly N/A A/A meetings, random U/A's in complaince with probation and social services case plan, and weekly professional counseliing to work on anger and control issues and comply with all recommendations that the thearpst gives her because she is bipolar and has border line personality disorder. Also parenting classes and keeping her home safe and child proofed. We cant prove that she is not doing this because she refuse's to verify if she is or not. Also we had an agreement that her social worker would verify these things and we havent gotten any of this verification from the social worker.
            The order says that if we have disagreements regarding custody or parenting time we must first attempt medation if there is no success then use a parenting time expeditor before either of us file anything in court.
            I cant believe that joint legal means that she can shave his head bald in the middle of winter because she is angry at us. I think the context of this action is emotionally abusive regardless if it illegal.

            Comment


            • #7
              Kris - have your husband go down to social services (if this is who is supposed to verify everything) and file a WRITTEN request for the information he is entitled to - in order to verify that she is complying with the order.

              Just as her being able to cut his hair is a legal issue - a right of hers........... your husband is legally entitled to that verification (according to what you say is in the court order). Get it in WRITING that you have requested the information.

              Best of luck,
              Amy

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ShakinThingzUp View Post
                Kris - have your husband go down to social services (if this is who is supposed to verify everything) and file a WRITTEN request for the information he is entitled to - in order to verify that she is complying with the order.

                Just as her being able to cut his hair is a legal issue - a right of hers........... your husband is legally entitled to that verification (according to what you say is in the court order). Get it in WRITING that you have requested the information.

                Best of luck,
                Amy
                Actually, she doesn't say that it is in the court order the social worker (or anyone else) reports to Dad that Mom is in compliance with her conditions.

                OP states that 'they' had an agreement with the social worker about verification and updates.

                OP, you need to tell you husband to post, word for word, what his custody order states.

                I'm specifically telling you to have your husband post because it is HIS child and HIS custody order.

                Just let the haircut issue go. You're making a bigger deal out of it than it needs to be. Accept the fact that both Mom and Dad have the legal right to have their child's hair cut in any style they like for whatever reason, even if it's cold outside, even if you don't like it. I can guess why the little boy is so very upset.
                HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!
                How do you catch a very rare rabbit?
                (unique up on him)
                How do catch an ordinary rabbit?
                (same way)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Custody situations with stepparents involved are sticky messes. I understand that you feel that you and your husband have custody of your stepson, just as, since we are the primary parents in my stepdaughter's life I feel like I have custody of her - I don't and you don't. Your husband needs to work it out through the channels he needs to go through - you can't do it for him. You can be there to support him and love him and make him wear a hat for his crappy haircut, but you can't fix it for him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well the custody order states that she must provide proof of attendence at weekly A/A or N/A meetings to my husband and that all unsupervised visitation is condition upon those things that I already listed like weekly counseling, passing U/A's, and compliance with criminal probation. We have an agreement in writing between her and my husband that her socail worker would do the verfication of all the conditions because she refused to take responsibility and do it herself.
                    We understand that the hair cut is not grounds to denying visitation but I feel that it is emotional abuse regardless if she had the right to cut his hair. When he told us what happened he cried, he didnt want her to do that to him. I am not blowing it out of porportion because we were the ones that had to sooth him after he was tramatized by her actions. Its hard to explain to a child why someone would take their anger out on them.
                    As far as to why I am posting and not my husband it is because we are a team and we both care and love the child the same. He is my step-son and I have actually been a part of his life since his birth (long story). If you have not read any of my other postings Mom got Jr. taken away due to chronic neglect and drinking and driving with her children in the car. As you can see from her history this is why it is hard to trust her to make good choices in his best interest.
                    She has never done anything like this before, it seemed that all was going well. I am sure that if she was upset with the hair cut (which the child has had MANY times before) maybe a phone call to Dad would have been a less ABUSIVE action toward the child and looking out more for his best interest.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Your husband should speak with the social worker directly who is supposed to verify that she is in compliance. I would focus on finding out if she is indeed in compliance. As Mommyof4 has pointed out, the direct wording on the court order (assuming the "agreement" is a court order), may impact whether he is entitled to the actual data about her compliance or just a "yes" or "no" from the social worker.

                      But, everything you have posted indicates that he is entitled to know from the social worker if she is in compliance or not, and it sounds like he hasn't gotten that assurance from the social worker.

                      The haircut incident may be awful to remember but legally it's not relevant any more than keeping record of it (pictures and journal) for future use. So, you're here seeking LEGAL advice - you do need to let that one go, because there's nothing more to be accomplished on that issue legally, other than keeping record of it for the future.

                      Focus on the compliance issue, since legally there MIGHT be something there...

                      God bless you,
                      Amy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes you guys are right, the hair cut may have been wrong but not illegal and without that it does seem that we have different issues that are in direct violation with the order. I guess that I was just venting about that situation and thanks for all you who posted advice on that issue.

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