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Non-Custodial Parent Question Missouri

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  • Non-Custodial Parent Question Missouri

    I am in a situation where the ex-wife of my husband has sole physical and legal custody of their two kids. She lied to get his visitation supervised by his parents although there were witnesses who supported his side of the story and none who supported her side. The judge still sided with her. Now we are stuck. However, I don't want to debate the right or wrong of the fact that the visitations he has are supposed to be supervised. Here are my questions.

    What could be done legally if we took the children on vacation out of state.
    What could be done legally if we had a visitation weekend without the grandparents supervising?

    Does anyone know where the laws are written to discuss this situation?
    Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by curious64108 View Post
    I am in a situation where the ex-wife of my husband has sole physical and legal custody of their two kids. She lied to get his visitation supervised by his parents although there were witnesses who supported his side of the story and none who supported her side. The judge still sided with her. Now we are stuck. However, I don't want to debate the right or wrong of the fact that the visitations he has are supposed to be supervised. Here are my questions.

    What could be done legally if we took the children on vacation out of state.
    What could be done legally if we had a visitation weekend without the grandparents supervising?

    Does anyone know where the laws are written to discuss this situation?
    Thanks.
    Because the court has ordered supervised visits, if your husband takes the children out of state on vacation, or has any visitation without the supervision- he can be held in contempt of court. It is possible that if that were to happen, a Judge might order no vistations at all.

    He needs to obey the court order and then later he can go back to have it modified to unsupervised when enough time has gone by that the court will believe that he does not present a danger to his children.

    Here is a link that seems to give some info on MO laws- http://www.divorcelawinfo.com/states/mo/missouri.htm
    Last edited by xena; 04-21-2008, 09:33 AM.

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    • #3
      The main problem is that the Grandparents told the judge that they DID NOT want to supervise, but the judge wrote that in the decree anyway. So at this point, they are not willing to supervise the visitations any longer.

      This judge believed every word that came out of the mother's mouth even though she had no proof and did not believe one word from my husband even though he did have proof. Not sure what modifications would ever be made at this point.

      This judge will never agree to modification because the ex-wife will NEVER cooperate. She would rather scare her children to death by having all of us picked up by police than to realize that they have never once gotten hurt while in our custody - including normal kid scratches, but they come down with tons of cuts and bruises after her time with them. Unfortunately, I'm in a situation that will only get better when the youngest is 18.

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      • #4
        You can at least file for a modification based on WHO supervises the visits.

        Keep records of any scheduled visits where they have refused to cooperate. Then, use those records as your reason for modification, based on the visits not being allowed due to refusal of the grandparents to cooperate.

        I know I'm not a lawyer, but if the judge saw reason for the father to be allowed visitation, use that........ he didnt cut out visitation altogether, so based on the fact that a judge believes they should see their father, get a judge to order someone else to supervise them, because the visits that were ordered are not being allowed. The records of denied visitation are important (dates, etc).

        God Bless!
        Amy

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        • #5
          Originally posted by curious64108 View Post
          The main problem is that the Grandparents told the judge that they DID NOT want to supervise, but the judge wrote that in the decree anyway. So at this point, they are not willing to supervise the visitations any longer.

          This judge believed every word that came out of the mother's mouth even though she had no proof and did not believe one word from my husband even though he did have proof. Not sure what modifications would ever be made at this point.

          This judge will never agree to modification because the ex-wife will NEVER cooperate. She would rather scare her children to death by having all of us picked up by police than to realize that they have never once gotten hurt while in our custody - including normal kid scratches, but they come down with tons of cuts and bruises after her time with them. Unfortunately, I'm in a situation that will only get better when the youngest is 18.
          I agree with "shakinthingzup", you need to file for a modification right away. If the grandparents are willing to testify again that they do not want to supervise, and the Judge then orders them to anyway, it needs to be appealed. Unless for some strange reason, the grandparents were made a legal party in the case, the Judge has no legal right to order THEM to supervise.

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          • #6
            Well, the reality is that we have been having visits with the children, but not at the grandparents house.

            My question is, is we took them out of state, could she have us arrested in front of the kids?

            As for modifying the court order, this judge will not do that. The mother will not agree to anything. She sends the kids to us with burns and bruises but according to the courts, my husband is the abusive one. She's been reported to DFS several times by people other than my husband and no one does anything. I'll never understand how judges can get away with the things that they do.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by curious64108 View Post
              Well, the reality is that we have been having visits with the children, but not at the grandparents house.

              My question is, is we took them out of state, could she have us arrested in front of the kids?

              As for modifying the court order, this judge will not do that. The mother will not agree to anything. She sends the kids to us with burns and bruises but according to the courts, my husband is the abusive one. She's been reported to DFS several times by people other than my husband and no one does anything. I'll never understand how judges can get away with the things that they do.
              It doesn't matter what that particular Judge "wants" to do, or won't do. The only thing that matters is what the LAW says. The law prevents any Judge from issuing any ORDER to anyone who is NOT a party to a case, period.
              The Judge has no legal right to order the grandparents to supervise.

              You REALLY need to get a consult with an attorney. With the situation of your case, one might even be willing to take this portion of the case pro-bono. This is one of those cases where an obviously biased, and law ignoring Judge has done what he/she dam well pleases, and it is WRONG according to the law. Nothing will change, or get better until this is taken back to court, so please get a consult with an attorney.

              Every single time your husband gets the kids, he needs to IMMEDIATLEY document any and all injuries, bruises etc, even if it means taking them to the Dr. This is going to be the only way he can defend himself against abuse allegations, and prove that the ijuries occur during ex's parenting time.

              You already took the kids out of state, while supervised vistation has been ordered?
              If so, that was the wrong thing to do, but no, the ex cannot have you arrested, but she can have your husband held in contempt.
              Again, you really need to get a consult with a local attorney.

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              • #8
                The problem is that we don't have the money to pay all of the child support each month, much less pay an attorney money to help us.

                The children had a Guardian Ad Litem who didn't talk to ANYONE on my husand's side except for his mother who he reached by "accident" when he called her home during the time she was supposed to be at work. That caught him off guard. SO he had to talk to her. But he totally took the mother's side in this.

                Yes, we did take them on vacation last year because the grandparents refused to let us stay at their home for a week.

                The other problem about documenting things is that reporting it, doesn't work. We showed the pictures we had to the judge, DFS and no one is doing anything. Since the visitations resumed with my husband almost 4 years ago now, the older one has gotten a busted nose while in our custody and the younger one a black eye. (the busted nose was because he was running in his Aunts home after being told not too about 5 times and tripped and hit the coffee table so clearly no abuse there and the black eye of the younger one happened when his brother hit him in the eye with a broom handle)

                Other than a few things she's done, I don't think she physically abuses them really. I think the bumps and bruises are just because she doesn't watch them and lets them hurt each other and do whatever they want to do.

                I do think there is mental abuse going on as two years ago, she told the oldest one that "Daddy" was going to come back home soon and they would all be together again. Its a sad situation, but without any money, there's no way to fight this because her parents seem to be powerful people in the area where they live and while that shouldn't matter, it does.

                I'm not sure what to do at this point, because my husband is scared if we go to court without an attorney things will just get worse. So he won't do anything right now.

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                • #9
                  Unfortunately, the best advice I can give at this point is to agree with your husband... don't do anything YET.

                  BUT........ while you wait... document every thing. Document every time you get them without superivision. Document who is there (for witnesses later). Document dates, times & places where you meet and get the children...

                  Keep a record of every single thing that has anything to do with the kids. Take lots and lots of pictures - IN YOUR HOME. If you take them to the doctor, or any appointments, get those records. Be as involved in their school as possible... (meet with teachers, it goes on their records)....... if the mom has sole custody that may be difficult, but if she's allowing him some things, she may allow him more........ be nice........ get what you need.

                  When the time comes to file for a modification, all these records and evidence will be important. As soon as you have evidence of the children staying with you, I'd file just to modify the visitation & to joint custody............. there's no reason for that to be withheld if you have PROOF its already happening. And, just because one judge & one guardian ad litem did something stupid one time doesnt mean it will always be that way.

                  My husband filed for custody of his daughter when she was three.
                  He was denied and the judge told him his case was wasting his time, and "she's alive its good enough for me." The point was my husband did not have enough evidence to get a judges attention at that point. He had no records, no real proof... just a few people who SAID she was neglecting her. That's not enough for a judge.

                  When the child was nine, that SAME judge awarded my husband custody and called the mother "ignorant" in his ruling.

                  The reason was because we had that journal......... we had doctors records, emergency room records, dentists records, school records, criminal histories of boyfriends, PLUS those friends who saw things....

                  Start a file......... and FILL IT.

                  God Bless!
                  Amy
                  Last edited by ShakinThingzUp; 04-22-2008, 11:40 AM.

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