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Does NCP have a right to pick child up from Daycare early?? Florida

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  • Does NCP have a right to pick child up from Daycare early?? Florida

    Through court ordered visitation, my boyfriend has visitation of his now 2-year-old son set forth on every other weekend overnight and two nights a week on the weekends he does not get his son. The CP just informed my boyfriend that she is going to put their son in a daycare (from 7am-3pm) now that she wants to pick up more hours at work. My boyfriend frequently gets off work early in the afternoon (by 12pm) and asked the CP if he could pick their son up from daycare on those days to have a few hours of extra visitation time with their son at least until mother gets off work. She refused because she is a pain in the butt. :-P If they cannot come to some agreement with this issue (which I am sure they will not), does my boyfriend have a legitimate reason to take CP back to court for the extra time that he could be getting? (Like using the point that the child is barely two and should be having the benefit of being with his father for a few hours a day if dad is willing to pick him up early from daycare. After all, he is not yet in state mandated school). Thank you in advance for everyone's advice!

  • 4thefather
    replied
    Originally posted by demartian View Post
    If you know the IP address of the e-mail server, you can enter a filter for that or by the TCP port it uses, no one uses default ports anymore, so it's difficult to say for sure without looking at some of the traffic.

    The easy way would be to turn it on before opening the e-mail application and shutting it off after you close the e-mail application and not web-surfing or mix other internet activities during that e-mail time.

    Great, I think I'll use the latter of the two. Thank you for your help! Better safe than sorry!

    Leave a comment:


  • demartian
    replied
    Originally posted by 4thefather View Post
    This is pretty nifty to say the least! I never knew about a free downloadable packet capture! Do you know specifically how to use this program? Like how you were saying to customize it to only capturing e-mail conversations to reduce the traffic it captures?
    If you know the IP address of the e-mail server, you can enter a filter for that or by the TCP port it uses, no one uses default ports anymore, so it's difficult to say for sure without looking at some of the traffic.

    The easy way would be to turn it on before opening the e-mail application and shutting it off after you close the e-mail application and not web-surfing or mix other internet activities during that e-mail time.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4thefather
    replied
    Originally posted by demartian View Post
    Some courts still allow e-mail. Judges and Attorneys alike don't realize how easily they can be edited and changed and made to look like they came from one source or another. The courts are still catching up with the electronic age and although they usually allow this evidence, if the party to which the evidence is being used against disagrees with its content or claims it was never sent, the side using that evidence will need proof that it is real and that is really tough to do on a normal computer system.

    Running a packet capture or IDS package in the background will have all of the computer conversation elements necessary to show where and when the mail came from and its original content.

    This is pretty nifty to say the least! I never knew about a free downloadable packet capture! Do you know specifically how to use this program? Like how you were saying to customize it to only capturing e-mail conversations to reduce the traffic it captures?

    Leave a comment:


  • demartian
    replied
    Originally posted by 4thefather View Post
    And, might I also add that we were instructed by an attorney to conversate through e-mail. Explain why he would tell us to do that if the judge would just throw it out?
    Some courts still allow e-mail. Judges and Attorneys alike don't realize how easily they can be edited and changed and made to look like they came from one source or another. The courts are still catching up with the electronic age and although they usually allow this evidence, if the party to which the evidence is being used against disagrees with its content or claims it was never sent, the side using that evidence will need proof that it is real and that is really tough to do on a normal computer system.

    Running a packet capture or IDS package in the background will have all of the computer conversation elements necessary to show where and when the mail came from and its original content.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4thefather
    replied
    Originally posted by demartian View Post
    Easy! Download Ethereal www.ethereal.com is the link, it's open-source software (FREE). There is a Windows version. Before doing anything on the internet like receiving e-mail, be sure to open it up and capture the data coming in. This works for network cards, but there are others for modems as well. The files can be quite large since it records all traffic, so maybe just recording your e-mail send/receive sessions will do. You may or may not be able to decypher what the capture files tell you, but a computer expert will know exactly what is what in them.

    Thank you very much! I will use this from now on!

    Leave a comment:


  • demartian
    replied
    Originally posted by 4thefather View Post
    So how would I get a "deep packet inspection IDS" progam/software/whatever installed into my computer? Or are they relatively expensive? And how then are we ever supposed to prove she is extremely uncooperative and uncivil to say the least?? I would like the court to see what comes out of her mouth, and they can decide whether they think she is a "loving, caring" mother...My point is, there has to be more than one way to catch her being the pain in the butt she is. She clearly has no intentions of encouraging a positive relationship with her son and his father, so how would you suggest 'catching' her in action??!
    Easy! Download Ethereal www.ethereal.com is the link, it's open-source software (FREE). There is a Windows version. Before doing anything on the internet like receiving e-mail, be sure to open it up and capture the data coming in. This works for network cards, but there are others for modems as well. The files can be quite large since it records all traffic, so maybe just recording your e-mail send/receive sessions will do. You may or may not be able to decypher what the capture files tell you, but a computer expert will know exactly what is what in them.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4thefather
    replied
    Originally posted by demartian View Post
    I am one of those computer experts. There is a lot more to it. Unless you plan on requiring her to bring her computer into court without touching anything first, you won't have the chain of custody required... Things are only traceable where they are being traced. Are you running a deep packet inspection IDS on your PC? Logging all events that occur on your PC? These are not the default. Large companies have them in place and yes there are other ways to trace things, but a custody/visitation court is not going to have those resources. Like I stated, the court MAY allow them, some do, but if she hires a lawyer, you can guarantee they will be thrown out.

    So how would I get a "deep packet inspection IDS" progam/software/whatever installed into my computer? Or are they relatively expensive? And how then are we ever supposed to prove she is extremely uncooperative and uncivil to say the least?? I would like the court to see what comes out of her mouth, and they can decide whether they think she is a "loving, caring" mother...My point is, there has to be more than one way to catch her being the pain in the butt she is. She clearly has no intentions of encouraging a positive relationship with her son and his father, so how would you suggest 'catching' her in action??!


    And, might I also add that we were instructed by an attorney to conversate through e-mail. Explain why he would tell us to do that if the judge would just throw it out?
    Last edited by 4thefather; 12-07-2006, 08:40 AM. Reason: ...

    Leave a comment:


  • demartian
    replied
    Originally posted by 4thefather View Post
    Yea, but if she ever tried saying that she didn't write them, there are computer experts who can prove she did by just examining my computer alone. Anything sent through the internet is traceable. I'm sure it cost money to hire a computer expert, but the police do it all the time for case work.
    I am one of those computer experts. There is a lot more to it. Unless you plan on requiring her to bring her computer into court without touching anything first, you won't have the chain of custody required... Things are only traceable where they are being traced. Are you running a deep packet inspection IDS on your PC? Logging all events that occur on your PC? These are not the default. Large companies have them in place and yes there are other ways to trace things, but a custody/visitation court is not going to have those resources. Like I stated, the court MAY allow them, some do, but if she hires a lawyer, you can guarantee they will be thrown out.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4thefather
    replied
    Originally posted by demartian View Post
    You may want to start sending her Certified Letters Return Receipt Requested. While the courts "may" sometimes allow e-mail and instant messages to be used as evidence, they are highly disputable. Anyone anywhere with even a small bit of computer knowledge can edit them before printing them out or saving them to their e-mail inbox. The IM logs can be altered so easily that it is done often and thousands of times a day. The Certified Letters will show more proof of contact than anything in electronic form.


    Yea, but if she ever tried saying that she didn't write them, there are computer experts who can prove she did by just examining my computer alone. Anything sent through the internet is traceable. I'm sure it cost money to hire a computer expert, but the police do it all the time for case work.

    Leave a comment:


  • demartian
    replied
    Originally posted by 4thefather View Post
    I figured this would be the only way to prove anything. She likes to put on a front in court, but I've been collecting e-mails and instant messages from the past six months. I plan to keep encouraging my bf to talk to her through the computer from now on. I also had a converstation with her (last night as a matter of fact) through the computer, where she proves to have no intention on ever being civil with myself or my boyfriend. I'll continue to collect, collect, collect probably for the next year or so and then we will take her back to court for more eqaulity. Do you mind me asking what you were awarded with when you took your ex back to court with all the ****ing evidence? Would have loved to see her face :-)
    You may want to start sending her Certified Letters Return Receipt Requested. While the courts "may" sometimes allow e-mail and instant messages to be used as evidence, they are highly disputable. Anyone anywhere with even a small bit of computer knowledge can edit them before printing them out or saving them to their e-mail inbox. The IM logs can be altered so easily that it is done often and thousands of times a day. The Certified Letters will show more proof of contact than anything in electronic form.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4thefather
    replied
    Originally posted by Ohio "Step" Mom View Post
    I agree with all who have posted. (unfortunately) Anyone with an ounce of maturity would have asked him if he wanted to anyway.

    Even though documentation gets tedious at times, it's your best weapon in court.

    Good luck with everything.
    Thank you very much. I agree as well, i'll just continue documenting EVERYTHING as I have done in the past. Thank you again for all your help.

    Leave a comment:


  • 4thefather
    replied
    Originally posted by PoppaVA View Post
    It's not what you think - it's not what you feel - it's what you can prove.

    I had a similar experience - the worst part is the time it takes to build the evidence. I would send the CP certified mail requesting things (trying to set up visits and such) and most came back refused. When the time came to modify it looked much better on my part that I was able to prove how I attempted to keep in contact - gain more time with our kids - and difficulties that went along with it from the CP. I kept phone records for years where I could show attemps at phone calls - pretty much everthing that involded the children.

    Collect the evidence - best of luck



    I figured this would be the only way to prove anything. She likes to put on a front in court, but I've been collecting e-mails and instant messages from the past six months. I plan to keep encouraging my bf to talk to her through the computer from now on. I also had a converstation with her (last night as a matter of fact) through the computer, where she proves to have no intention on ever being civil with myself or my boyfriend. I'll continue to collect, collect, collect probably for the next year or so and then we will take her back to court for more eqaulity. Do you mind me asking what you were awarded with when you took your ex back to court with all the ****ing evidence? Would have loved to see her face :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • Ohio "Step" Mom
    replied
    I agree with all who have posted. (unfortunately) Anyone with an ounce of maturity would have asked him if he wanted to anyway.

    Even though documentation gets tedious at times, it's your best weapon in court.

    Good luck with everything.

    Leave a comment:


  • PoppaVA
    replied
    remember

    It's not what you think - it's not what you feel - it's what you can prove.

    I had a similar experience - the worst part is the time it takes to build the evidence. I would send the CP certified mail requesting things (trying to set up visits and such) and most came back refused. When the time came to modify it looked much better on my part that I was able to prove how I attempted to keep in contact - gain more time with our kids - and difficulties that went along with it from the CP. I kept phone records for years where I could show attemps at phone calls - pretty much everthing that involded the children.

    Collect the evidence - best of luck

    Leave a comment:

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